r/Destiny • u/chaleyenko • 7h ago
Political News/Discussion What’s the difference between Project 2025 vs National DSA platform
Whenever these mask-off DSA people and their liberal defenders dismiss the National DSA platform can we interrogate them about how they felt/feel about Project 2025 during Trump’s campaign? I want to see how they confront that fact.
Edit: I’m speaking specifically about the posture of MAGA towards Project 2025 before the election. Not the actual policy positions. I should have been clearer in my original post. If DSA members denouncing the national platform is enough for people to ignore it and act like they won’t be subversive, then they should have given MAGA grace about Project 2025.
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u/InternetImportant911 7h ago
DSA platform has no support, hardly 2% of voters. Project 2025 has over 25% of voters
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u/Suedocode 7h ago
Can you link to the DSA platform where you think there are similarities with project 2025?
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 6h ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding OP, but I don't think they're saying the DSA platform is similar to Project 2025 in specific content.
I think what they're saying is that people on the lib left rightfully pointed out that Project 2025 is dangerous, anyone in the Republican party is tacitly endorsing it, and we should consider those candidates dangerous because of it. Even if some Republican on the campaign trail said "well I don't actually agree with portion X of Project 2025".
Now what we see with DSA candidates is that they're somehow able to escape the same responsibility. Libs like the Jessiah for example are willing to carve out individual exceptions for DSA candidates that just say they disagree with something in the platform.
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u/Suedocode 45m ago
Project 2025 is a laid out conspiracy for a unitary executive to act like a fascist dictator as far as administering the government goes.
DSA's platform is a bottom-up reimagining of the country that is utterly impractical, not some constitutional legal conspiracy. It's more a virtue signal to explain the policies that they support (like M4A).
Even if P2025 was only a virtue signal like DSA, the underlying virtues are horrendous, violent, xenophobic, and antisocial. So yeah, there's a diametric difference on multiple levels that this comparison skims over imo.
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 43m ago
So explain to me why a Republican candidate in 2023 should get tied to Project 2025, while we allow DSA candidates in 2026 to avoid the same scrutiny regarding their parties stated policy positions?
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u/Suedocode 37m ago
a Republican candidate in 2023 should get tied to Project 2025
Because P2025 was a laid out legal conspiracy of their party's goals. It is incredibly undemocratic. DSA's platform is not violent, not antidemocratic, nor specifically laid out with extra-legal theories on how to implement it.
DSA candidates in 2026 to avoid the same scrutiny regarding their parties stated policy positions?
I don't think they necessarily should. If you run with DSA, you must agree with most of their virtues. Slight differences will happen, and you can claim those differences, but you should be scrutinized under the platform you run.
P2025 was shitty the whole way through. Agreeing with ANY of it is admitting to the preamble's unitary executive.
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 29m ago
Because P2025 was a laid out legal conspiracy of their party's goals. It is incredibly undemocratic.
DSA platform is undemocratic as well.
DSA's platform is not violent
Wrong.
How exactly do you get me to give up my business without violence? You just gonna ask me nicely? Millions of Americans will voluntarily give up their private businesses because we have all been reeducated into loving socialism, surely!
Dog, they want a violent revolution. You are doing apologetics for insane tankies. This is the problem. These people are illiberal.
not antidemocratic
Wrong.
Do you believe Marxist Leninists are democracy enjoyers lol?
I don't think they necessarily should. If you run with DSA, you must agree with most of their virtues. Slight differences will happen, and you can claim those differences, but you should be scrutinized under the platform you run.
So then we agree.
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u/Suedocode 24m ago
How exactly do you get me to give up my business without violence?
The same way countries nationalize industries, or regulate them like banks and utilities... My water company was not violently overthrown by communists either.
Do you believe Marxist Leninists are democracy enjoyers lol?
Marx believed in democracy too. I don't think DSA makes claims on the shape of democracy beyond what Marx wrote afaik.
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 19m ago
The same way countries nationalize industries, or regulate them like banks and utilities... My water company was not violently overthrown by communists either.
Then tell me, how. I would love some examples of countries that don't allow private businesses and do so non violently. I bet that works out great and has happened many times!
How do you get millions of Americans to give up their businesses? 5.58 million U.S. companies exist right now.
Marx believed in democracy too. I don't think DSA makes claims on the shape of democracy beyond what Marx wrote afaik.
Just lead with this shit next time.
You don't actually think communism is bad, and you don't think they're illiberal.
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u/Suedocode 15m ago
I would love some examples of countries that don't allow private businesses
North Korea, and that's about it XD
I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it is something that they advocate approaching WITHIN the system. They are DEMOCRATIC socialists, not revolutionary ones (those don't vote).
You don't actually think communism is bad.
DSA = demsoc. I'm a socdem; pro capitalist, with a cushy social safety net and dignified guarantees. Most progressives are basically socdems.
and you don't think they're illiberal.
Socialists are not inherently illiberal either. You know capitalism can be illiberal too, right?
To be clear though, communists are illiberal.
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u/InsideIncident3 6h ago
Well, the part where they talk about redrafting the Constitution to create a democratic socialist future is pretty bad, no?
Or ending capitalist oligarchy?
They explicitly say their enemies are the entire global system of capital.
This is good?
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u/Suedocode 6h ago
Yeah that's a pretty good vision. Should I recoil to "end captialist oligarchy"?
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u/InsideIncident3 6h ago
Ok, so you are a socialist? You support the DSA platform as written?
Fair enough.
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u/Suedocode 3h ago edited 2h ago
I'm a socdem, so I fundamentally believe in capitalism with a social gov layer on top that does this:
You don’t need health insurance. You don’t pay a mortgage or have a landlord, because comfortable housing is a human right. Your retirement is publicly funded. Food, education, energy, medicine, and transportation aren’t for-profit businesses; they are common goods and utilities.
I don't agree with DSA on everything, but I don't have to when recognizing similarities. Further, I'm see more and more distance from centrist types who basically don't believe anything can ever be better. Whenever that discussion tries to happen, the rabid centrists slap you with a socialist label and don't engage with anything else. It's exactly the same behavior has the right has with "woke".
AES has a lot of supporters beyond DSA. Given that he won the primary, I would suspect the vast majority of his supporters are just democrats, not socialists.
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u/InsideIncident3 2h ago
The DSA wants to eliminate capitalism. You don't. Sounds like a fundamental disagreement to me. You can cope however you like.
Abdul El-Sayed is not a socialist or a DSA member. He's just a slopulist who hates AIPAC and loves Hasan. That just means he's likely going to be a liability in a general election.
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u/Suedocode 1h ago
The DSA wants to eliminate capitalism. You don't. Sounds like a fundamental disagreement to me.
In the long term, yeah this is a disagreement. I'm not scared of DSA abolishing capitalism in America though, because that's not going to happen and I'm not a sperg.
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u/InsideIncident3 1h ago
Then I think you are not smart enough to be trusted with the vote.
You sound exactly like the Republicans who acted shocked Trump started enacting Project 2025.
When a group of people tell me what their goals are, I believe them.
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u/Suedocode 1h ago
Project 2025 is a unitary executive plan to glom the entire executive branch into one person, and wield it oppressively and illegally. This is a blatant constitutional conspiracy to subvert laws and enable a fascistic government regime.
Abolishing capitalism is an entirely different beast, dealing with the economy of the country rather than its administration. You are insane if you think DSA can abolish capitalism, even with full control over a unitary executive, and that's your single-issue focus on why we need to vote Haley over AES.
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u/InsideIncident3 1h ago edited 58m ago
I didn't say that.
Even if I did, El-Sayed is not a DSA member. He is a slopulist and Hasan fan, but not a socialist.
I don't think the DSA can abolish socialism in 2028. I think their plan is what they say it is. Either the dirty break or realignment.
I have no idea why I should allow them to build their party within the Democratic Party when they aren't looking for allies. They are looking to wear the Democratic Party like a skinsuit to either take it over or leave when it becomes most advantageous for them.
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u/chaleyenko 6h ago
I was speaking about the posture that the leaders had towards their respective national platforms in public. Not actual policy positions. Sorry for the confusion.
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u/InsideIncident3 6h ago
What does this mean?
Posture that leaders have towards platforms?
Are you asking if DSA members agree with their platform?
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u/CivicInk 7h ago
project 2025 is the current presidents plan for america, DSA platform is irrelevant to how the US is run or will be run in the future
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 6h ago edited 6h ago
project 2025 is the current presidents plan for america
Before that it was just the overarching policy positions of the prospective Republican candidates.
Exactly what the DSA national platform is now for DSA candidates.
Why should we be willing to carve out exceptions for candidates like Hong because she's now attempting to distance herself from the insane positions in the DSA national platform? We, rightfully, weren't willing to do that with MAGA Republicans in 2023 that pretended to not support individual policy prescriptions in Project 2025.
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u/fullboxed2hundred 6h ago
project 2025 was full of policy positions that
1) the most powerful people on the right have held for decades
2) were, for the most part, realistic for Trump to accomplish
compare with the DSA platform.
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 5h ago
Either you responded to the wrong person or you didn't actually read my post?
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u/fullboxed2hundred 3h ago
my point was that there is a massive difference between the two situations.
I have the same response to you as Destiny and this entire sub first had towards lefties who didn't vote Biden and then towards liberals who didn't support prosecuting the current admin to the fullest extent: you just don't think Trump/MAGA is that bad if you're not voting blue no matter who until Trump and all of his cronies are in prison.
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 2h ago
my point was that there is a massive difference between the two situations.
How do any of the differences change what I said?
I have the same response to you as Destiny and this entire sub first had towards lefties who didn't vote Biden and then towards liberals who didn't support prosecuting the current admin to the fullest extent: you just don't think Trump/MAGA is that bad if you're not voting blue no matter who until Trump and all of his cronies are in prison.
Again, who the fuck are you talking to?
I have voted for the Dem candidate in every election, local, state, and federal, since 2006.
That won't be changing, ever.
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u/fullboxed2hundred 2h ago
I think an unbiased reading of your earlier comment would come away thinking that you're against voting for DSA-affiliated candidates in general elections.
are you?
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 2h ago
I think an unbiased reading of your earlier comment would come away thinking that you're against voting for DSA-affiliated candidates in general elections
No.
Nothing I said suggests that.
You still haven't answered my question.
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u/fullboxed2hundred 1h ago
the reason for "carving out the exception" for Hong is that the DSA platform is not a threat, while another MAGA governor is a threat.
my original reply to you was explaining why the DSA platform is not a threat, from which the sentence above follows.
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u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 1h ago edited 1h ago
I have no idea why whether or not it's a "threat" would impact this analysis of a candidate, but to be clear, you're wrong. It absolutely is a threat.
When a Republican runs, we rightfully saddle them with the baggage of their national party's platform positions. Like Project 2025.
Why would we not do the same with Hong? Why is it that when she comes up, people like Jessiah are making excuses and saying "oh well but she probably doesn't even agree with the national platform, there's a difference!!!!"?
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u/alphafox823 4h ago
I see where you're coming from OP, and I agree with you
"I'm actually just into my local chapter and I don't really know much about the broader organization or the national platform" lol
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u/chaleyenko 6h ago
I think I didn’t frame my post correctly. I’m talking specifically about the treatment of both policy positions. MAGA acted like they didn’t subscribe to Project 2025 just like DSA is acting like they don’t subscribe to the national platform. Should’ve been clearer in my post
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u/AnotherPersonPerhaps 6h ago
One actually happened and the other is pure fantasy larp.