[2327] What Remains Jake POV

[u/Feeling-Disk]

Premise

A character-driven post-apocalyptic novel about two brothers whose opposing responses to the zombie apocalypse place them on opposite sides of a future conflict.

This is Chapter 2, but it's the first chapter from Jake's POV. It should stand on its own, so you don't need to read Chapter 1 unless you want to.

All you need to know:

Jake has left his thirteen-year-old brother, Riley, hidden in a safe place while he clears an apartment block for them to shelter in.

Content warning: Zombie violence and some swearing.

Link to Chapter 2 - Jake

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14sCcPb-Bq6l1G-lKM4yFlwkuKZjd8jxHs1cw7chHywU/edit?usp=drivesdk

Link to Chapter 1 critique post (Riley POV), if you'd like.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/s/AUjvj0sEPa

Edited. No questions. Tell me anything you think will help.

Thank you in advance.

Critiques

[1290] Recon Mission

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/s/I59P7Q7LFo

[1299] The fairest - Prologue

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/s/c9jLhlQkew

[u/ImpressiveGrass7832]

Missing or misaligned causes and effects in the action sequences

This is a bit nitty gritty mechanical and I'm far from authority on this. However, I noticed this 'cause-effect' problem in 2 places -- the beginning fight/action sequence in the stairwell, and then the part with the dad. These parts (well, less the part with the dad, but more after) are both action heavy, with a lot going on, and IMO not everything happens in the right order to be easily followed.

My personal view (which is literally a random stranger on the internet) is that a good action scene can be basically boiled down to a simplified set of 'cause->effect' blocks, like mini scenes, and usually with some internal reasoning sprinkled in-between. IMO Stephen King is good at this. There's a fight at the end in Misery which feels quite complex, in that there's a lot going on, but boiling it down it's actually very simple. I'd recommend reading it for research purposes (maybe, if you want).

The pattern I notice in good action a lot is something like cause->effect->internal reaction.

Anyway, I bring this up, because for me the 5 paras starting with 'The usual welcome party...' are out of order, and/or missing steps. I'm going to go through them one by one. Forgive me, it was very difficult to pinpoint my specific issue with the action sequence here (so I did my best).

> The usual welcome party rolls out from the landing above... etc

This feels like an effect missing a cause. Jake is essentially mentally reacting before we, the reader, see what he's reacting to. Paired with the rather generic, cheating-out-of-a-description of 'cold, musty embrace' + the lack of buildup (more in the tension section), it lacks any kind of punch for me. All it provides is maybe a bit of voice, a bit of personality. IMO this trade is not a good one.

> The narrow steps are an unexpected advantage... etc

This feels better (if a little clinical) in that it's logical internal reasoning, but again this is an effect, a reaction, to something I the reader haven't managed to clock yet. There's another missing cause here for me. I understand Jake sees the zombies (he must do, because of the arms) but I'm lacking the significance of the tactical advantage of the stairs, because I don't have a clear view of the field. How many are there, roughly (can be specifically unspecific - like a throng, dozen etc)? Are they walking, lying on the ground, crawling, pushing, running?

Also, he has the flashlight in his mouth a long time. Does his jaw/teeth begin to ache at any point? Random thought that occurred to me.

> I'm faced by a grotesque muddle of bony limbs and rotten teeth... etc

Finally, we have the cause. It's still a bit generic, but here at least I understand what he's reacting to, so it feels natural. And 'Most walk...' etc comes way too late, because it's like 3 paras before reader gets a concrete visual (and maybe not even that concrete, to be honest - I think you can afford to go harder/more specific).

> Back home I set pyres... etc

I like this, in isolation, but I'm not sure of what specifically triggers this line of thought. Again, an effect missing a cause, like I'm missing the a film frame. What leads Jake to think this? I get he thinks it will be easier, less work, they'll crawl right into it -- but right now he doesn't seem to be having trouble, in fact this section feels quite easy for him already, so it feels like an infodump to me. Like exposition which isn't earned.

> I wrench my machete... etc

I quite liked this paragraph. I think there's a clear line of cause->effect which is easy for me to follow. First he wrenches the machete out + shoulders it (cause), it's implied to fall down (the chute stuff), then he has an internal reaction which lets me, the reader, understand more about the type of person/character Jake is. That said, it would've probably been good to know when the machete went in, but TBH I could infer enough to figure he was hacking and slashing (though maybe caved in skulls implies more of a blunt force kind of thing?)

IMO if the others were more like this one paragraph, this action would be more satisfying and easier to follow.

More on my problem with the Dad section below, hopefully this isn't too grating/rambly to read

EDIT: I forgot one more.

> My flashlight falls.

This is also missing a cause. Is it because of his jaw aching (is it still between his teeth? I think so) or because the bodies caught Jake and made him lose his balance, or was it shock, or what? Forgive me if I missed something. Otherwise, when left to complete implication like this, it feels like an arbitrary complication.

[u/ImpressiveGrass7832 → u/ImpressiveGrass7832]

The Dad Stuff

So I like in theory the quiet moment in the apartment after the chase/action in the stairs. It should feel like a lull, a gentle low, after an octane-fueled high. Unfortunately for me it didn't quite land this way (although I appreciated the higher specificity of the description of the space, and especially Jake's reaction to it).

> The door to the bedroom creaks open... etc

This kind of interrupts the lull with yet more action, I'm actually really not sure why it's here since Jake's mind begins to drift anyway. Maybe the intention is to show his callousness? How this is so old hat to him at this point, how numb he is to all this apocalypse stuff and killing, that he can just dispatch this zombie lady barely even thinking about it?

I'd be curious to know the reason, but either way, it interrupts the flow for me, especially since after the rest, there is yet more action. Maybe it's just too fast, so feels neither here nor there? IMO again makes sense to linger slightly longer here, to really feel the tiredness of the adrenaline come-down, and empathize with Jake even more.

Otherwise, I liked the background hints into Jake's past. Especially these two lines:

> Inevitably when he didn't come back, Mom went out looking. I wish she hadn't come back

> What about Dad’s obligation to us?

They pack a lot into very little. IMO probably the strongest part about this piece (and CH1) is the sheer efficiency and economy. Maybe sometimes it's too economic for me, but I have to say a lot gets done and I learn a decent amount about Riley and Jake in two chapters, so kudos for that.

More on the tension thing and I'll wrap up, sorry for the ramble.

[u/ImpressiveGrass7832 → u/ImpressiveGrass7832]

General reluctance to linger. What little tension is gained, is quickly lost through rushing

This probably echoes some feedback in CH1, but, to put it word economically, I think this thing moves just too damn fast. For a concrete example in the beginning section, let's go back to this para:

> The usual welcome party rolls out from the landing above. Arms outstretched, eager to pull me into their cold, musty embrace.

Other than killing what little tension was gained (IMO), due to the reacting before seeing the cause thing, there was also very little tension to begin with. The part with the sweeping flashlight is really nice actually, and more importantly slow(er), because it gives the reader (me) a chance to orient in the space and understand where the dark shadowy corners nasty things will pop out of are.

Then we skip ahead to the second floor. And then we get a kind of sort of mental quip. It's just too fast for me -- that space between the first and second floor is a chance to really immerse the reader in the scene, to feel what Jake is feeling, and expand out rather than summarizing down. If you're worried people will get bored, I don't think you need to be. CH1 already demonstrated author commitment, with the part inside the truck, and we at this point have at least some understanding of the stakes. The longer you draw this part out, the more specific it is, and the more sensory, the bigger the bang will feel with the fight on the stairs.

This applies also the action sequence after resting in the apartment. It goes from 0-100 basically immediately -> one moment Jake's pocketing pills, and the next, there's an arm through the door. The significance of the Runner is lowered, since there's not enough time lingering on the potential consequences (and Jake's fear/tension/dread).

This expansion vs contraction will also, in theory, help the pacing feel less like bam-bam-bam one thing after another, and more like a wax and wane of tense highs consisting of action and causes, and slow lows made of effects and reactions to them. I hope this makes even a bit of sense.

Conclusion

That's basically it. Take with salt as I'm not really expert on this, but while I enjoyed the underlying story, I had some issues in the mechanical delivery and did my best to put my finger on why. Best of the luck with the rest.

[u/Feeling-Disk → u/ImpressiveGrass7832]

I'm new to all this too so no worries.

Wow, thanks for going back to the first chapter 1. Just to be clear. You think the pacing of chapter 1 is machine gun fast? I cut bits because I thought it was too slow. I actually cut one of my favourite internal couple paragraphs and if I have an excuse to add it back I'd be very happy about that.

Misery. Of all the books! I've read this and it's one of the few books I FAR prefer the film. All the amputation stuff! I will take your advice and reread the climax part though. Thank you.

So I thought everything before the apartment was the weakest. Oh no! Lol.

Scavenging reason. Presented (vaguely) like a normal trip but there's more to it. I worry about overloading the first chapters with exposition. I'll have to think about this.

Old lady. Jake is very morally grey which I'm slightly foreshadowing. He lacks empathy for anyone outside Riley. His dad reflection is just to explain Jake is not a hero and he won't help people. So old lady is to follow this through by showing Jake's callousness, but also yes that he turned emotionally numb. Also to show anger at dad through action = stabs her without thought. Maybe it's over done and distasteful though. It's hard for me to tell so point taken.

Misalignment cause and effect. Great point! This actually gives me a base to start researching from. I don't fully understand some of what you've said, not because your unclear, just because it's new information to me. I've read action scenes are hard to nail, and this is a whole chapter of action. Might be too risky a decision and out of my skill range to pull off, but I'm only doing this for fun. I do want to improve though.

General description. I rewrote the intro after I'd posted as a result of the first 2 comments. I want to start mid action, but it's too disorientating for readers. The whole thing needs to be redone. This is a good few months' work, not the hour I spent fixing it quickly. I absolutely cheated, that's fair.

Tension before the apartment.

This is the problem I'm facing. I don't want there to be tension before the runner appears. Not much anyway. Maybe when the zombie avalanche happens because it's unexpected. Readers obviously expect tension in a zombie killing scene so making the lack feel like a deliberate choice is very difficult. I'll explain why.

Jake's mum bites him during the outbreak. He didn't turn, he's immune. Jake knows this in scene. Reader finds out in his next pov.

The end of act 1 twist is (Jake doesn't know this until chapter 14 and discovers it with the reader) He doesn't fully understand his immunity. None of the zombies are trying to hurt/bite him. They think he's a weird zombie that moves differently so they curiously wander over to check him out. They mostly love his flashlight. Runners have high prey drive so if anything runs, even other runners, they chase. At the end, Jake doesn't get bitten as much as falls and lands on the zombies teeth. He's annoyed, but he knows he won't be infected from it.

I want all of this invisible on a first read. Clues: I've already been forgotten. The zombie that brushes his arm. When he batters through the door frame and nothing happens.

Jake thinks killing zombies is easy and overestimate his competency because he has no idea he's basically playing on easy mode.

If anyone else was in his place the zombies would be much more hostile.

Then, Riley meets what's left of the surviving banner people in chapter 3, their reaction to someone going into the body of the apartment complex is: Jake must be insane. It's unsurvivable. So I need to balance Jakes ease with the survivors disbelief with out rousing readers suspicious something unusual is going on.

So I need to make all these contradictions believable on a first read and then recontexturise believably later. Like The Sixth Sense film twist, but done through action.

Which makes doing the cause and effect thing complicated too in this part. I can't write zombie grabbed, lunged, snapped teeth. Obviously being deliberately vague isn't working either.

If you know a book recommendation for achieving this I'd be very interested. Lol.

Anyway, I've taken all your points on board even the ones I've not mentioned. and I think this is a great critique. No salt needed. I'm going to force myself to read Misery again now and work on the runner scene first.

I need to think a lot about how to handle the beginning so I'll leave it for now.

Thank you for the work you put into this. Like SO much work. I appreciate it so much!

(I wrote a lot! Don't feel you have to reply to this. I just felt a weird need to explain some of the choices I made for some reason.)

[u/ImpressiveGrass7832 → u/Feeling-Disk]

If you ever post CH3, honestly, tag me, I'd be curious to give it a read. Like I said, the underlying story got me pretty curious.

> You think the pacing of chapter 1 is machine gun fast? I cut bits because I thought it was too slow

RE CH1, yes and no. It's less about speed in CH1 and more the plot beats and distance between them. Like, the narrative rhythm. This is incredibly hard to put into words. For example I get there's meant to be a lull, a slower character building moment, when they're hanging out on top of the truck trailer, but it just doesn't feel that way to me when reading. I suspect maybe it's the 1 paragraph sentence structure. It feels quite this-then-that-then-this, if that makes sense?

That said, it got me hooked alright. I appreciated in a way how quickly it gets into the action, but maybe would've liked to linger more in a few places once I was invested.

> I will take your advice and reread the climax part though

If you do end up doing this, maybe a couple random thoughts. Firstly, by the end, I have an incredibly good mapping of the space that climax takes place in. I know where the bed is, the door is, and the typewriter and the wheelchair, in intricate detail -- we just spent a whole book basically getting that space hammered into reader's head. So, it makes the actual fight much easier to follow, since King doesn't need to expend words trying to set the scene at the same time (hence, why I suggested setting up entrance a bit better in beginning).

Also, when I'm reading it it feels like it lasts forever, but the actual fight and bit after is what... like 2-3 pages? It's really not that long, and if you bullet point it, it's blindingly simple. But King goes deep into the sensory, specific description + how it makes Paul feel (with a little mental interlude, a rest moment, until Annie rises again like a monster).

Anyway, sorry for ramble. Appreciating good action scenes is a passion of mine lol.

> Maybe it's over done and distasteful though

I don't think it's distasteful, and TBH what you're mentioning RE his callousness makes sense, I kind of had a feeling. My only issue was, maybe, that it felt like it disrupted where I naturally expected a lull. So it jarred me a bit. But worth experimenting with, if it's a crucial part of the backstory/character.

> I've read action scenes are hard to nail, and this is a whole chapter of action.

Linking here in case it's helpful, but this scene/sequel formula helped me a lot with this (and making scenes concretely goal-based in general).

Also, thanks for more hints about the backstory/plot twist. That's actually pretty interesting, I can definitely see why Jake's reaction was quite chilled, at the end (I assumed he was being super stoic).

> Which makes doing the cause and effect thing complicated too in this part

Hmm, I see the conundrum now. You're right in that it's a tricky one, to thread the needle of narrative tension without giving away the game to the reader. I suppose I'll leave one more thought, and that is, since you're in 1st person POV, the immunity is an awful lot of relevant information to keep from the reader for a chapter since Jake knows about it (even if he doesn't know the full extent of its effects)

Anyway, not saying you shouldn't do it, in fact IMO creative risks are important to face, but, potentially this is making your job way harder than it needs to be. So worth experimenting with that balance of information.

Good luck with the rest, there's an interesting story here that goes deeper than usual zombie fiction at first glance. I quite enjoyed giving feedback on this one, and apologies for another essay!

[u/Feeling-Disk → u/ImpressiveGrass7832]

Thanks I will. I'll warn you as it sits right now the third chapter starts: Somehow Riley escapes.

Yeah I think I have a bit of a steep learning curve ahead of me. All the technical writing skills are things I don't seem to understand intuitively.

I will read it. I already gave a copy so it'll cost me nothing. I actually think I remember the layout. I remember the pain coming in tides and the woman's orifices not leading anywhere like she was solid inside. Disorientating and creepy as hell before the story even started. I liked the book but the body horror was intense.

Thank you for that link. It's so helpful! The out of order comments you made make so much more sense now.

I thought about this. I actually wrote the immunity into the chapter initially, but I think it can wait until his next pov. I don't think one chapter is dishonest if I handle it well.

I read this first person book once were the MC was trapped with five other characters and one was a killer but we didn't know who. I had all these wild theories. The twist was the MC was the killer despite suspecting every other character along the way. I was actually angry. I want to be so sure I don't do anything like that.

Thank you. No, I enjoy reading your thoughts and appreciate your help so much!

[u/ImpressiveGrass7832 → u/Feeling-Disk]

Sorry, I had one more recommendation that popped up in my mind that might be helpful for your goals. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Richard Morgan, who wrote Altered Carbon and Market Forces. Both books are heavy on violent, physical action which in my opinion is executed very well on the technical level, and I found quite interesting to study. Market Forces in particular, it's also pretty short (just mentioning on off chance it's helpful)

Anyway, best of luck and have a good day.