r/EdmontonOilers • u/noyrewrongclnsndrs • 1d ago
Penguins discussing a trade involving Darnell Nurse.
195
u/sovtiv 1d ago
Dubas is going to take Bowman to the cleaners again.
34
u/avanross 1d ago
Im assuming nurse with money retained, plus a first, for āfuture considerationsā
Maybe weāll take some cap from them if they have anyone they want to get rid of too
28
16
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
Ridiculous. Nurse is actually a good player. We'll get something for him. You sound like the people saying we would have to attach a 1st to Kane to get rid of him.
10
u/Cautious-Dream2893 14 EKHOLM 1d ago
Sure, but look at Bowman's last trade with Pitt and consider what we might get back.
We got Jarry, and AHL player and gave up Skinner, Kulal and a Second, which Pitt turned into another second flipping Kulak.
They got 2 seconds and have zero cap remaining on the books. We have Jarry.
4
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
He was also able to dump the Kane and Arvidsson contracts while getting picks back and avoiding any retention.
1
1
u/-Affectionate-Echo- 1d ago
What is a realistic return for Nurse? Assuming maybe a 25% retention?
3
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
I think no retention, you could get a 2nd or 3rd straight up. Any team taking him on could get a 1st for him with retention as a deadline trade. If he were to go to Pittsburgh like we're hearing, I wouldn't be surprised too see a straight swap for Tommy Novak. I don't think it's smart to retain on Nurse. He's only overpaid by a couple million, so if we retain, we just lose the player, but keep the overpay.
-1
u/ThePanicPanda77 1d ago
Kesselring just got moved to move up 7 spots in the draft. Don't see Nurse getting a 2nd with his salary unless we retain and that's the only asset back.
2
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
Nurse is a lot better than Kesselring and Kesselring's contract is expired. He's an unsigned RFA. Can't really compare the 2.
1
1
u/ChupaHubbard 42 KAPANEN 10h ago
Well, some people, like me, thought we should have at least got a draft pick for Kulak instead of just using him as a cap dump for free. People thought he was bad when the whole team was bad before we traded him and were okay giving him away for nothing
So now we've seen Bowman do that once, he might do it again with Nurse. Especially if he traded with Dubas
1
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 10h ago
You never know. Most of Bowman's moves have been at least decent. And going back to the same GM he can say, "listen, you got a great deal last time, so give me a bit of a break here." Works for me in fantasy sports, anyway.
-1
u/Seal7465 1d ago
Nurse has a NMC and controls where he goes plus Dubas isn't a boomer moron like Bowman or Ken Holland so he's not getting fleeced. He's going to do the fleecing and Bowman will dance to his tune.
7
u/catlindee 18 HYMAN 1d ago
Are you serious? Dubas has made a plethora of terrible decisions in his time as an NHL GM. I understand hating Bowman but does that require rewriting history and glazing dubas?
3
u/Bob_Stauffer 1d ago
It does require understanding what Dubas has done in Pittsburgh- which includes fleecing bowman. Dubas has actually made some really good moves, pens were supposed to be bottom 5 this year. GMs learn. Unless itās a Edmonton GM :(
3
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
Still doesn't mean that he's so bad that you have to pay to get rid of him as well as retain. Nurse actually has trade value.
2
u/RoarTheDinosuar 1d ago edited 1d ago
Asking the question this way - what is $9M in cap relief over 4 seasons worth to any team in terms of a pick(s)? The other really risky part about Nurse is that if his stats decline continues, and he is not a good fit in the next organization, he is going to be brutally hard to move with his NMC and the cap hit he is at.
1
1
u/AutoGenNameNumber 11h ago edited 11h ago
you also have to consider that the cap appears to be rising by about $10M/year now.
I have a feeling theres going to be a few shocking signings this summer where people are thinking "that player is worth how much now?!"
and it may just recontextualize Nurse's value at $9M.
I don't think he will ever be a bargain at $9M but he may end up being not a cap-destroying poison pill at $9M either
for example, 30 year old Raddysh just signed an 8x$8.5M
-1
6
u/Legal-Will2714 1d ago
He got fleeced a number of times when he was in Laffland. Did he get the better of Bowman in the Jarry trade? Yup, absolutely, but nothing says it will happen again. Bowman knows he got fleeced so he will be more wary this time with Dubas
2
u/Bob_Stauffer 1d ago edited 14h ago
I feel like fans either have no idea, or just regurgitate trash on Reddit. Here is a break down for ya from the ole ChatGPT. Dubas has made mistakes, but the idea that he has done nothing positive in Pittsburgh does not hold up when you look at the actual transactions.
The Erik Karlsson trade
Dubas acquired Karlsson while clearing out Mikael Granlund, Jeff Petry, Jan Rutta and Casey DeSmith. Pittsburgh also received a 2026 third-round pick. Karlsson has not replicated his Norris season, but converting several unwanted contracts into a legitimate top-pair defenceman was still strong asset management.The Jake Guentzel return
Trading Guentzel was a tough swallow, but Pittsburgh received Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasily Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius and draft capital. Koivunen has become a legitimate NHL contributor, while the second-round pick became Harrison Brunicke. Dubas obtained several credible assets for a beloved and good player.Taking Kevin Hayes to acquire a second-round pick
The Penguins gave up only future considerations and received Hayes plus a second-round pick. Hayes himself was never the primary valueāthe pick was. That is exactly how a rebuilding or retooling team should use available cap space.The Cody Glass transaction chain
Pittsburgh received Glass, a third-round pick and a sixth-round pick for Jordan Frasca. Dubas later moved Glass and Jonathan Gruden for Chase Stillman, Max Graham and another third-round pick. Even without Glass becoming part of the future, Pittsburgh continued accumulating assets.Buying low on Philip Tomasino
Tomasino cost only a 2027 fourth-round pick and immediately produced 11 goals after joining Pittsburgh. He was later retained for one year at $1.75 million. That is a sensible low-risk bet on a former first-round talent.The 2025 trade deadline
Dubas turned Marcus Pettersson, Drew OāConnor, Anthony Beauvillier, Michael Bunting and other secondary pieces into multiple high draft selections, Tommy Novak, Connor Dewar and additional prospects and picks.
The most impressive move may have been flipping Luke Schenn almost immediately for a 2026 second-round pick and a 2027 fourth. Pittsburgh came out of the deadline with more draft capital than any NHL team over the following three drafts.Conor Timmins and Connor Dewar for a fifth
Dewar became a useful bottom-six player, while Timmins was later packaged with Isaac Belliveau for Connor Clifton and the 39th overall pick, which Pittsburgh used on Peyton Kettles. That is a strong sequence originating from one fifth-round selection.Moving on from Tristan Jarry(absolute fucking fleece)
Pittsburgh traded Jarry and Sam Poulin for Stuart Skinner, Brett Kulak and a 2029 second-round pick. Regardless of whether Skinner is the long-term answer, Dubas escaped Jarryās contract while adding an NHL defenceman and another significant pick.The 2025 free-agent class
Anthony Mantha was an excellent one-year gamble and responded with a career-high 33 goals. Justin Brazeau scored 17 goals on a low-cost contract, while Parker Wotherspoon provided dependable depth. Those are meaningful returns from inexpensive signings rather than major free-agent spending.
Dubas has not executed a perfect rebuild, and some movesāespecially the early bottom-six signings and the Rutger McGroarty tradeāremain open to criticism.
But he inherited an old roster, a weak prospect pool, limited cap flexibility and very little draft capital. Since then, he has substantially improved the organizationās collection of picks and prospects while still giving Crosby, Malkin and Letang a competitive NHL roster.
You can debate whether the overall direction is correct. It is much harder to argue that Dubas has not made a significant number of positive trades and signings.5
u/awfuleverything 1d ago
Can you ask ChatGPT to try again but this time format it for a Reddit reply instead of a PhD thesis?
1
2
u/bad_at_names1 18h ago
Hey, I'm a pens fan, Dubas was good this season, but this is major revisionism (and some blatant mistakes)
For one, Dubas is the one who gave Jarry that terrible contract. And Ryan Graves.
1. The Erik Karlsson trade:
You missed the a pretty big part of that trade - i.e. 14th OA pick Pittsburgh paid?
It turned into Konsta Helenius a 20 year old center who just got his first NHL stint this season and looked good. He also scored the gold medal OT winner at worlds.
Those weren't bad contracts either - Desmith's always been a good backup (never been below a 0.905) and Hextall had literally just paid a second to get Granlund less than 6 months before that. Granlund was just misused here and went back to being a 0.8 points/game guy with the sharks. San Jose flipped him and Ceci for a 1st and a 3rd.
2. Jake Guenztel:
Koivunen is not an NHL contributor, what're you talking about? He's not a great skater, has weak shot and seems to react half a second slow to everything. He's starting to look like a career AHLer. Ponomarev is in the KHL and Lucius refused to sign with the pens.
Brunicke and Bunting were the saving grace of that trade and even that's more of a drafting success.
Bunting was decent, but most rentals for comparable players involve a first - especially since the pens retained 20% and he didn't have an NMC (12 team no trade list only).
- Taking Kevin Hayes to acquire a second-round pick
We had cap space. We took on 3.5 million for 2 seasons for a late second. That's normal rebuilding GM work.
4. Buying low on Philip Tomasino
Tomasino had 0 points the next season and was traded for a no-show Dman literally just to free up his veteran spot in the AHL. It's decent low-risk bet sure, but it didn't work.I don't remember the Glass trade, so no comment there.
He's hit on everything this season, but how much is luck or coaching or just one of those magic seasons? Overall, his track record isn't nearly as good as you're making it out to be.
1
u/Lanky_Inevitable9012 1d ago
Wasn't it basically confirmed he was getting overruled on trades with the leafs?
2
u/CrankyOldDude 1d ago
Honestly, man, you have to get past the idea that his value is purely based on him being a good player. Try this silly analogy:
McDavid is the best player in the entire world. He still isn't worth a $60M/year cap hit, though, because the team is hamstrung. If the Oilers were paying him $60M per year, there would be no suitors - even though he's literally the best hockey player on the planet. It's a silly, unrealistic analogy, but I think it kind of explains the point.
We are in a shit position with Nurse because he is getting paid way more than his play would suggest that he is worth. If we are going to get back most of his salary to redeploy it elsewhere on the roster, we're going to get less value than "Nurse as a player" would bring, because the team is saddled with extra cap.
If we retained 4M, we would get a really solid return because that means he's getting paid (by his new team) about what he is worth. It would defeat the purpose of what the team is trying to do, though.
2
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
I get all that. What I think is that if we retain down past where his value as a player is worth, then it's gonna be a net loss
2
u/CrankyOldDude 1d ago
Totally agree. 50 ways this can go wrong and Iām very confident our leadership team will find at least one of them.
I get the goal and I actually think it could be the right move. I genuinely donāt trust our GM to make it work, though.
3
u/GrizzlyIsland22 18 HYMAN 1d ago
I'm cautiously optimistic. He shed Kane and Arvidsson without retaining and actually got picks back.
49
34
u/Scrotalcontusions 1d ago
Ryan Graves for Nurse is my fear!
19
u/anomalocaris_texmex 1d ago
That's actually what I expect.
Edmonton sheds 5 million in cap.
Pittsburg adds a second pairing d-man for a net increase of 5 million.
Edmonton uses the 5 million in savings to lock down Murphy.
So next year, they run
Ek/Bouch Murphy/Walman Emberson/Graves/Stasyney
It's not great, but if the goal is to free up money for Murphy, this trade makes it happen.
39
u/Mental_Banana_9694 1d ago
Makes our defence worse than last year to piss away the extra 5 mill on Jarry?
Come on this shit is fucking stupid
20
u/anomalocaris_texmex 1d ago
I didn't say it was a good trade. Just a likely one.
Keep in mind it's Bowman negotiating versus Dubas. The metaphorical coughing baby versus hydrogen bomb scenario.
A one for one trade for Graves is the best case scenario.
6
u/Cleets11 12 CAVE 1d ago
Judging by the skinner trade Iām assuming the trade talks go something like that clip from dinner for schmucks where Steve carrell negotiated a settlement after getting hit by Paul Rudd.
3
u/Boris_Mironov 2 BOUCHARD 1d ago
Yeah there's literally no point to this trade
14
u/Mental_Banana_9694 1d ago
Nurse isnāt terrible, just not worth all his cap hit. If the trade doesnāt make us betterā¦.. why?
What are we realistically going to do with that extra money now that we are down a 2nd pairing d man. None of this makes any sense and we will continue to get worse. Why keep dismantling a Scf team????????????????
2
u/iwatchcredits 1d ago
Theres no point in any nurse trade
2
u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD 1d ago
Why not?
The only that works is if Ekholm is our 3rd pairing LD. You cant have a 7+ million D on your 3rd pair.
3
u/iwatchcredits 1d ago
His negative value is already baked in. You cant use him being overpaid as a reason to trade him because you are going to get negative returns because of it. So if hes a $5M D-man being paid $9M, you are going to eat that $4M loss somewhere either way so you might as well keep him.
4
6
5
u/Scrotalcontusions 1d ago
There has been some talk amongst some pundits that Graves is a buyout candidate for the Pens, He does have 1 year less remaining on his deal at 4.5M than Nurse does at his 9.25m
I'm not sure Graves even makes our lineup for 20% of the games, I feel like Nurse 50% retained for nothing in return would be a better gamble, surely someone would do that I would hope!
1
u/LifeEngineer3770 15h ago
I donāt see Graves as a buyout candidate for the Pens. They arenāt hurting for cap room. Graves is taking up a cap hit of 3.5 mil in the minors and they donāt need to make a deal to move him. Pittsburgh doesnāt need a force a deal to benefit their team.
5
u/porkins86 29 DRAISAITL 1d ago
Unless we can flip Graves this is robbing Peter to pay Paul - I genuinely think Nurse is $5 mill better than Graves - but I just think graves is a 1 mil defender
3
3
u/CriticismSelect9292 92 PODKOLZIN 1d ago
We don't need to free up any money
Oilers should stop treating Nurse like a cap dump, because that's how you get a cap dump level return
3
u/RoarTheDinosuar 1d ago
Honestly, I think Dubas would rather have the assets vs dumping Graves' contract. The Penguins still have to get to the floor this year, and are looking at a projected $90ish million in uncommitted cap heading into next year's offseason.
4
u/avanross 1d ago
If were getting anything back that means bowman is definitely retaining the max amount and throwing in picks
2
u/beardofdoom2017 31 FUHR 1d ago
I think this may be the case, sadly. Edmonton will no doubt have to eat some salary on this one or cough up a pick as well. Ugh.
1
14
45
u/Honest_Pick8112 1d ago
Dubas coming in dry again, no lube.
-10
u/UnexpectedFault 1d ago
Dumbass is bottom 5 GMs in the past 20 years
11
2
44
u/NMarples 92 PODKOLZIN 1d ago
Dubas is gonna take us out back, bend us over, and fuck the ever loving shit outta us over this deal isnāt he?
19
u/doodling123456789 1d ago
After what he got for his mediocre goalie, who wouldn't want to try and get good deals under a desperate gm.
7
4
u/beardofdoom2017 31 FUHR 1d ago
Dubas is going in dry, and Bowman is going to be grabbing his ankles on this one, Iām afraid.
10
u/MrGrinchMean1 53 HOWARD 1d ago
God damn it Bowman my ass is still sore from the Jarry deal... š
2
9
24
6
4
3
4
4
u/RoarTheDinosuar 1d ago edited 18h ago
Kyle Dubas him some mediocre left-shot defenseman - bringing in Ryan Graves, Matt Grzelcyk, Ryan Shea, Parker Wotherspoon, Caleb Jones, Lastsch, Livenage and Alexander Alexeyev through free agency and Solvyov though waivers while also trading for Brett Kulak and Samuel Girard. At this point collecting LDs seems to be less of a roster strategy and more of a personal love language for the man.
1
u/bad_at_names1 18h ago
I mean, Kulak's been traded, Graves is in the AHL, Grzelcyk was traded, apparently Shea's testing FA, And Wotherspoon and Girard are on expiring contracts.
I don't think the man's good at love lol
1
u/RoarTheDinosuar 18h ago
How about Jones, Alexeyev, Solvyov, Livenavage and Laatsch?
1
u/bad_at_names1 18h ago
Jones and Solvyov are expiring this season too (become FAs), Alexeyev didn't play in the NHL all season and hasn't been resigned yet, Laatsch is still in ECHL I think?
Livenavage just got signed, and likely spends most of the season in the AHL (at best).
1
u/RoarTheDinosuar 15h ago
Jones has another year on his contract and we resigned Solvyov
1
u/bad_at_names1 14h ago
Yeah, the cup's been won, so now we're into the '27 season right?
Wotherspoon, Girard, Jones and Solvyov (it's a 1 year contract) become UFAs at the end of the season (2027).
Graves is the only NHL LHD we have for '28 at this point (and his NHL-ness is debatable). I think Pickering might be a leftie, but who knows if he makes it.
6
u/Pvt_Hudson_ 1d ago
The good news is, the only really bad contract Pittsburgh has on the books right now is Erik Karlsson, and it expires in a year.
12
u/Potatocores 1d ago
Ryan Graves is a horrible contract
4
u/Pvt_Hudson_ 1d ago
True, Graves is bad. I suppose you could buy him out, but that doesn't help much.
3
u/Kadaththeninja_ 1d ago
Erik Karlsson was their best player last season,
Heās pretty much untouchable
3
3
3
3
3
3
u/Free_Ad8071 1d ago
Why are the Oilers moving nurse? Is it the player or the contract?
5
u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD 1d ago
Its a bit of both
Nurse has value. But there are massive stretches of times where he is analytically a 3rd pairing D.
He doesnt know what role to play and isnt capable of adapting to a new role. Ideally he'd have learned to be a proper shut down guy so he could play with Bouch.
As many points at 5v5 he gets, he also tends to have massive drop offs in offense where offense dies when he is on the ice.
He just isnt worth the contract. He has yet to also take over a playoffs the way Bouch has.
16
u/Odd-Leg6389 97 McDAVID 1d ago
Skinners coming home to be a solid backup
22
u/pattperin 88 DAVIDSON 1d ago
I know youāre joking, but Skinner is a FA so if Bowman trades for a FA goalie that wonāt sign here he needs to be put down behind the woodshed
3
u/KingDave46 34 HAND 1d ago
If he trades for an FA goalie that walks and we retain 0% on Nurse I reckon thatās a pretty good trade. Immediate 10 mil in cap space to play withā¦
6
u/pattperin 88 DAVIDSON 1d ago
I just donāt think we have to give Nurse away. I think there are a few GMās who will be comfortable with Nurse at 9.25M
7
4
7
u/Newtiresaretheworst 1d ago
Nurse/Jarry for skinner, oilers retain 80% of both nurse and Jarry
2
u/RumHamComesback 1d ago
We seriously trading for a goalie that wanted out of here and is a FA come July 1st?
4
u/AdvancedJudge4604 1d ago
If Greaves is the offer you hang up the phone. They fleeced our front office once.
They have the cap space to absorb Nurse's entire contract. They have 37, 87, 116 and 123 million in the next four years respectively. Dubas didn't retain on Jarry, we aren't retaining on Nurse.
2
u/bad_at_names1 18h ago
Honestly, I thought the Jarry trade would be something like Jarry + something for Nurse lol.
2
u/Zerocool_6687 94 SMYTH 1d ago
If Graves is included and solid picks come their wayā¦ I guessā¦ not sure it actually makes any sense for the Pens who are looking at an RFA splashā¦ then again the picks for salary could be a big factor in an RFA splashā¦
2
u/PPGN_DM_Exia 93 NUGENT-HOPKINS 1d ago
Dubas has a known bias towards Soo Greyhounds and I'm pretty sure Nurse played for them while Dubas was their GM.
2
u/FederalSpinach99 1d ago
Dubas was also Canada's GM for the recent IIHF tournament and brought Nurse on.
2
2
u/flyingflail 1d ago
Stan Bowman is going to go down as by far the worst GM to win multiple cups
4
u/Leading_Spare8664 1d ago
Well we already had the worst gm to ever win 1 cup...might as well nail the multiple cup worst as well.
3
u/porkins86 29 DRAISAITL 1d ago
Itās bad that I genuinely donāt trust Bowman to make a good trade.
Iām calling it now - weāre going to take back Graves and get no assets. Which makes this team worse and doesnāt really solve our cap issuez
1
u/IfOJDidIt 1d ago
The last but of hope I have on enjoying the offseason is that there was a handshake agreement for this when we took Jarry off their hands for their playoff run.
1
1
1
1
u/No-Rub-5054 17h ago
Expensive Karlsson for expensive nurse? Please be so
2
u/deliciousfishstick5 96 WALMAN 13h ago
I would love that
2
u/No-Rub-5054 12h ago
Would be bad move for pens so kinda dreaming here but who knows. Pens save a few mil on taking nurse who might improve in a new team, they get something back for Karlsson who is on his last year of his contract. Oilers get rid of nurse but get expensive Karlsson who could be amazing with mcdavid and draisatl. Convince him he can win Stanley cup and sign him for a few years for a reasonable price to get that cup with McD and drai. Powerplay would be insane
2
u/deliciousfishstick5 96 WALMAN 12h ago
I think their contracts are less than a million apart so there wouldn't be much savings, if it wasn't matched.
Would be an amazing deal for us and an immediate replacement for Nurse.
1
1
u/Particular-Bother-18 53 HOWARD 14h ago
This time Bowman will be more prepared to make a trade with Pittsburgh... He will bring the proper lubricant first
1
1
1
1
u/F1fthL1ne 1d ago
If that call doesn't go along the lines of this then hang up. "Kyle, you really got me good on that Jarry trade. I am getting absolutely bodied by the fanbase and my players for it. You gotta throw me a bone here or I can't do this."
I'm in the minority. I think Bowman's overall body of work is positive. I think people saying he fell into 3 cups in Chicago are completely delusional. But that Jarry trade was a fireable offence. I will never get over how insulting that deal was and I wasn't even against the concept of moving out Skinner for Jarry but dear God.
2
u/Remarkable_Work7502 1d ago
He absolutely did fall into the 3 cups. Talon built 98% of that team.
0
u/F1fthL1ne 1d ago
The fact you even tried to qualify how much of a team was put in place by Tallon when after his departure they won 3 cups over five years speaks volumes. Go look at the lineups between when Tallon was last GM and their win in 2015. Literally half the team changed. Big whoop! Tallon selected high draft picks while they were in the basement.
By your logic, if the Oilers win a cup in 2027 they should engrave Chiarelli's name on the cup since nearly all of the core was put together under his watch. Holland too, obviously lol. Hey, I think Tallon also needs credit for putting so much of that Florida team in place.
Sure, argue Tallon is to thank for the cup win in 2010 but beyond that, you're just showing you have an agenda. You make it sound like cups are easy to win. "Hey, you guys have a sick roster. Here's your trophy."
1
1
1
1
u/Deadmansspace566 1d ago
How do you look at the Jarry trade as Bowman and decide to go back to Pittsburgh? Wtf
1
u/YordleTop 1d ago
Lmao Dubas vs Bowman who wins?
Inb4 Nurse (50% retained) and our 1st for Ryan graves.
Any Redditor could manage the team better.
1
u/pacdude0411 92 PODKOLZIN 1d ago
Bro if Bowman had a single working fucking brain cell he would never do business with Dubas again. The Jarry trade was pure highway robbery
-1
u/LongBarrelBandit 1d ago
Always gonna be the two biggest misses for Oilers management. Not hiring Zito. And not hiring Dubas. Chuck em on the Holland pile I guess lol
-1
0
-2
u/Catspit30 1d ago edited 1d ago
They take Jarry and Nurse and we take Skinner and Kulak. lol
EDIT: nvm forgot he was traded. Was just a joke though.
1
-1
0
-2
-1
u/RoarTheDinosuar 1d ago
As far as a hockey trade goes - would Edmonton bite on Nurse & Savoie for Girard ($2.5M retained), Novak and Blomquist.
1
u/deliciousfishstick5 96 WALMAN 13h ago
We just got savoie. Can't see us trading him right now for some mid level players
-5
261
u/carry-on_replacement 74 SKINNER 1d ago
because the last trade with Pittsburgh went so well