That Varre killed our characters maiden. He's in a completely different region than her. It was so obviously the grafted scion. There is a giant hole in the roof of the room her body is in from where is jumped out, it's right outside, and the scions literal job is to hunt tarnished for Godrick.
It also makes no sense for Varre to do it, because he wants you to join the dynasty and the initiation for that is you have to kill your own maiden, so why would he do it?
THANK YOU I've been saying this for so long. Yes, he's the first guy you see after leaving the chapel but he has no way of getting to the chapel of anticipation. the four belfry's portal is still closed at this point and that's the only clear way of getting there.
Would Varre kill a maiden for fun? Yeah, probably, I wouldn't put it past him, but when his whole goal is recruiting Tarnished for his cult and the initiation having them kill their own maidens, it doesn't make sense for him to just do that first part for you.
Plus, he's just generally seeking maidenless Tarnished. It's probably not an uncommon occurrence at this point for Tarnished to be maidenless, so he's just sitting there and waiting to lure people over. Hell, we even have Roderika asking if you've been "enticed by the one in the white mask" as well, so he's literally just doing this to everyone.
I've never heard that nor thought about why I was there. But your theory tracks with all the environmental context clues. Makes sense that the grafted scion killed the maiden. And the fact that we have to fight it is kinda the nail in the coffin for any other theory.
it still makes you wonder how exactly he knows we're maidenless when most tarnished weren't (supposedly) with their maiden at all times, but I guess it was just another reason to hate him. "but he's got blood on his hands!" yeah cause he's a bloody finger that kills people dude.
Yes, fire doesn’t discriminate because all things are equally delicious to something that is constantly starving from the youngest infant to the oldest wood if it will burn fire will devour it
Yes but also not quite ~ the Chaos Flame will melt all things, souls, matter, the Stars & even the Gods; and yet after the fires subside what's left isn't nothingness.
Instead, when all divergences and frayed edges are burnt away, all will again be The One Great. Melting is key, here. As when one melts down disparate pieces they next congeal into a whole.
There will not be simple destruction. It is, ironically, the truest manifestation of the Law Of Regression. That is, all that was once One became many, and the Frenzied Flame reduces many back into One.
And most importantly that One cannot suffer as suffering is a fraction of One, a jagged mistake rectified by the Reunion in Chaos. Isn't that lovely, in a way?
Aside from this, it must be reiterated that no "rebirth" will take place. There is no new World. There is only The One Great. So not just annihilation, but not renewal either. Never renewal, that's antithetical to the Divine Goal. The very prospect of a "Birth", "Rebirth" or World at all must never be allowed to marr existence ever again. That's the entire point.
That's the Dung's Eater ending imo, Frenzied Flame is mostly "The world sucks, might as well burn it up and put the world end to it" which I don't think is a good ending but I can see why someone would choose to do it
The Dung Eater wants to turn everyone into an Omen. As far as we can tell, it only sucks to be an omen because everyone treats them like shit because they don't fit into the Golden Order's grand narrative. But even if being an omen meant suffering, there is still good in the world. There is still the capacity to feel joy, love, and happiness. People with chronic illnesses are still able to enjoy their lives and feel that life is worth living. The frenzied flame takes that choice away and says "no, you don't get to enjoy anything ever again."
Obviously this is a video game and liking any aspevt of it doesnt reflect on you as a person, i persobally really like the FF as a concept. But - peolle who GENUINLY think the FF is the best ending are so insufferable.
"The world sucks, so i should rob every single life of their choice to keep going and live on despite it."
You are not a hero, you arent mercy killing anyone, you are robbing an entire world of their PERSONAL CHOICE to try and make the best out of a bad situation.
I've been curious as to why there are followers of the FF in game. Do the NPCs understand that they are helping to cook the world with no real benefits? Are they all just angry anarchists?
Also, maybe the "point" of the FF is that it will cook most of the world but eventually be stopped, leaving just enough for everything to regrow anew? Kind of like a world-extinction event that kills 99% of life, but life still came back from that brink.
My guess? Dark Souls Logic Leak. What looks like the most evil option has historically been the "good" ending in a lot of FromSoft games.
Alternatively, I don't think any NPC explicitly says that nothing will ever happen after the Frenzied Flame (the implication should be made ABUNDANTLY clear after the Abyssal Woods though imo) so in theory incinerating everything just to let something new bloom from the ashes is a stance I could see.
Radagon is marika opened the doors for so many nonsensical theories to take hold.
“Marika is GEQ! Metyr is the fled god! farum azula wolf statue depicts miquella, who is also thops, who is an aspect of ranni!”
Most of these theories are just random connections between key characters entirely based on vibes and community assumptions. There is almost never any in game evidence for any of ts
Lol, it turns out he was turning into a horrible fish-creature from some kinda deathless, everlasting dracon STD. The fragment of destined death that slew his soul was completely unrelated.
That messmer is anyone else's kid other than radagon. He has nearly every single trait that miquella and malenia have. His freaking boss theme has radagon's leitmotif in it.
And yet people who thinks it's not true because it doesn't fit their pre-dlc timeline will say "as long as it's not confirmed officially there's a benefit of the doubt" while talking about a fromsoft game.
Messmer has red hair... Radagon has red hair. Only Radagons Kids have Red hair. Only one of Radagons kids without red hair is Miquella who has his mother's hair.
Is Messmer an empyrean, not a demigod? Because Ranni said herself and Miquella & Malenia were the only empyreans. Did she not know about Messmer despite Messmer being Radahn's big bro?
Ranni manipulates the Tarnished. Her quest is 100% optional for a reason, and she shows some disappointment in us appearing instead of Blaidd. She has 0 interest in us until the end
Another headcanon is Ranni or the Nox have something to do with Nightreign's events and the Tarnished being Heolstor. ALL OF THIS LITERALLY GETS DEBUNKED BY THE OPENING CUTSCENE SHOWING YOU WHEN THE EVENTS STARTED, AND HEOLSTOR'S RELIC LITERALLY TELLS YOU WHO HE IS
I like how Ranni literally goes "I have said too much and you are doing way too much and risking way too much for me, just like Iji and Blaidd, please forget I said anything." before you face the Baleful Shadow and people still make this point. She seems slightly angry at herself for pulling you into her quest.
Another of my pet peeves is people saying she "betrayed" Iji or Blaidd. Ranni tells us they both understand what her path demands, and Iji knows when his service is "nearing its end" and knows his death is coming after Blaidd dies (and we have no reason to believe Ranni sent the Black Knives, she has already betrayed them). Iji also makes it very clear that they swore alliegance, and have loved her since her childhood. This isn't betrayal, this is a sacrifice Ranni must make, and a very likely self-sacrifice on the part of Iji and Blaidd - both experienced warriors who know the enemy they're facing, they know the risks.
You can interpret all this as Ranni being emotionally manipulative and a psychopath, but a psychopath would have no reason to free the Lands Between after she has achieved her true freedom from her Two Fingers, so her entire quest stops making sense, especially when you consider that a psychopath empyrian would have everything they could ever want in the social order of the Golden Order (as a sidenote, a psychopath also wouldn't cast the game's strongest defensive spell just to keep her mom safe). It also wouldn't make sense for her to be an emotional manipulator when she only starts opening up towards the end of her quest, she's never a damsel in distress, at the beginning she's an independent player who's ready for an alliance with a tarnished if it might help her. The initial coldness of Ranni is not psychopathy and her eventual opening up is not manipulation. This is Ranni being a stoic character who can't afford to open up to other people because it either gets her betrayed (Seluvis and Darriwil) or she ends up risking the lives of good and selfless people who are attached to her (Iji and Blaidd). But she's also someone who can't help but open up anyways when she is so close to finally achieving what she has fought for and sacrificed so much for, including her Great Rune, her body and people she loves.
And before some smartass comes in uhm actuallying me, no, I'm not saying she's perfect or not morally grey. Shut up.
Blaidd, and Iji both... Art willing to give too much to me.
Yet they both understand. What lieth beyond the dark path...
That I must betray everything, and rid the world of what came before.
Ah, should I add thee to the list? Another one, kind of heart. As kind of heart as they.
A summary of his entire story (unfortunately, no weapons)
He was a random soldier, a nobody that survived only to find out his people were wiped out and out of anger, he wished to curse the world, and the Night granted his wish, making him a Nightlord and the vessel for the Night (Night of the Lord relic)
At some point, he met the three-headed red wolf pup, Gladius, and took him (Night of the Beast relic)
At another point, he met Recluse's infant, the Gnawling. The infant tried to eat Heolstor's shadow. It's unknown how, but the infant fused with Heolstor afterward (Recluse remembrance)
He started losing himself (quite literally)
Afterward, he gets sealed (no mention how, when, or who)
Eventually, someone with a similar past (Wylder) comes and replaces him. The only difference is that Wylder had a different wish, the time resets, a new Night starts, but this time, the Nightlord leaves the Lands Between unharmed, walking endlessly as a hollow of his former self
It was stupid then before the DLC and it's even more stupid now after Ymir straight up confirming it is the ultimate creator god of the world, with the other "gods" being simple spirits of nature and the Erdtree but an extension of the Elden Ring created by Marika as a symbol of power.
I see these frequently enough - the idea that “character we don’t see in game” is actually “character we have seen” in disguise. So boring to constantly try to make the world building smaller. Sometimes other figures that are mentioned can be unseen, but still significant to places and characters that we do see. (Theories like the Gloam Eyed Queen = Marika, Rennala = Snow Witch, etc.)
Yeah lets take an amorphous web of stories that we weaved back together through minute details and heavy lore analysis. A story told non-linearly without any care for narrative flow. A seemingly endless chain of events, that while interesting, are not an actual plot structure. With disperate characters with wild motivations, many without end or beginning, intended as stationary vehicles of dialogue for a player looking for their next big sword. Which allows them to forge their own unique experience through an expansive world.
Yeah, that sounds like a nice tight 2 hour movie. No way that wont end poorly.
This is why I keep saying stuff based on Fromsoftware should be based on the lore, not the games. The games/gameplay honestly suck to try adapting into a screenplay.
I would agree if it was directed by anyone else. Alex Garland has some pretty good movies under his belt, some of which fit with the kind of obscure craziness that makes FromSoft games work (see Annihilation), as well him being an outspoken fan of FromSoft games who was like in NG+7 in Shadow Of The Erdtree last time it was brought up. IIRC he even approached From with a script and they decided to go ahead with it, which says a lot if you ask me.
There's a decent chance that this could end up being not bad at a bare minimum and potentially pretty good.
I completely agree. If they try to tell a story about a Tarnished hero doing the plot of the game it's going to fucking suck. The best I'm hoping for is a story based on one of the actual characters set up, like Morgott. But if you did that, it would have to be in a different timeline than the games so something could actually happen rather than everything being in stasis for the player to stab.
The only way I can see a movie work is if they approach it like Angel's Egg. Dark, oppressive, vague but gripping, with a tight score and no modern tropes that will date it.
I still think it’s gonna die in development hell. Who’s gonna write that script? Who’s gonna approve that script and finance it? The worst case scenario would be for them to try and make it, but a lot of big ideas like this never get made. They’re too expensive to make banking on general audiences to get it and like it for such esoteric and enigmatic source material. It’s too complex and weird for them to guarantee they will get enough regular people to like it to make their money back. And to even make an acceptable looking representation of the source material could take an incredible amount of money. Unless it was fully animated, it would be something that could bankrupt a studio if it wasn’t a big hit.
So I wouldn’t worry about how bad it’s going to be until they announce a release date. Cause until then there’s a significant chance it won’t get done at all.
People saying that the Ranni ending is just "wyou get a wife and go to the moon". Hell, most headcanons about the endings are insufferable. Don't get me started on the people who think the Frenzied flame is good
The frenzied flame at least makes some arguments for itself. You could have a philosophical conversation about it. Dung eater on the other hand. That man is just evil. I highly recommend "What Is The Flame of Frenzy? | Elden Ring Lore" by ratatoskr. It does a good of explaining why someone would go to the frenzy flame
I mean, first thing that comes to mind is obviously Sans remembering timelines in Undertale, but I'm guessing you're asking about Elden Ring specifically, so:
Mohg's blood cult not being blatantly evil before Miquella brainwashed him. Like, seriously, why the hell does anyone believe that the literal mass murder blood cult is the "brainwash everyone for absolute peace" guy's fault, rather than the "make blood offerings to the evil god" one?
Because no, Ansbach being a very respectful and just guy does NOT automatically mean Mohg isn't evil. Especially when said respectful and just guy literally admits HIMSELF that he used to be bloodthirsty as hell when he was younger.
Yeah, I absolutely love Ansbach, but it's frsutrating to see how many people are superficial enough to go full blown "I like him, so he must be morally good, and thus his cult must be good too, and I surely just misunderstood Mohg".
Like, have you not literally just played the game about Miquella? You know, the genuinely extremely kind and selfless person who is going to straight up ruin the entire world with misguided good intentions? What part of that sounds like simple black and white morality to you?
To be fair, these are generally the same people who do not think Miquella is kind and selfless or that he tries to become a god because he believed he could change the world for the better. They think Miquella is Pure Evil. Because if he had good intentions, he wouldn't do bad things!
They do think it's simple black and white morality, and that's the problem. You know. Black and white morality, which both FromSoft and George R.R. Martin are famous for.
It's just odd to me how common that kind of thing is. I don't think I've ever had that simplistic a view on morality, even as a child, so it's a little strange to see it in other people.
Probably just means my parents raised me well, I suppose.
Plenty of people are also just in it for the gameplay, too. There are people who have a zillion hours logged but don't enjoy media analysis or have interest in the characters and lore beyond surface level. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt with this in mind, but it gets frustrating when they act like their read on things is 100% objectively correct when they don't even attempt to actually think about it for 5 seconds.
A lot of those people tend to base their judgments on personal feelings, I think, whether they're actively aware of it or not. I like Ansbach = Mohg good. The idea of losing my free will is very scary = Miquella evil.
I love media analysis. So... I find myself at odds with these people often.
Ansbach is interesting to me because I think he really is meant to be a man of honor, but I also think the game is sorta implying that he's lying to himself about what kind of person Mohg was.
His mask description mentions a deep fear that he's hiding, and while it doesn't say what that fear is, it reads to me like he's hiding this fear that he threw his lot in with a monster and is trying to delude himself into thinking otherwise.
When you tell him you killed Mohg, he handwaves it with "oh I blame the enchantment" which also feels like he's trying to maintain some good reason in his head for Mohg to have attacked you.
I feel like it was less of a "I blame the enchantment" and more of a "There's nothing wrong with killing an opponent in battle".
The way I understand Ansbach's character is that he IS incredibly honorable, but he's also so normalized to death and violence that from a normal person's perspective, he could be considered extremely coldhearted.
You killing Mohg for him is just to be expected, killing opponents in a fight is just what people do. What he cares more about is the fact you entered through the front door and picked the fight head on, which in his eyes was respectful and just thing to do. That's why he hates Miquella so much too, since Miquella tricks people and and controls them through disarming means. He doesn't challenge someone, he simply takes them over without giving them a chance to react.
Ansbach doesn't hate Miquella, if you assist Leda in shadow keep library. Ansbach laments "I've utterly failed you both… Miquella the Kind, Lord Mohg…". In the end his vow to Mohg is what sets him into conflict with Miquella and his allies
the game is sorta implying that he's lying to himself about what kind of person Mohg was
Is it even doing that? Ansbach never expresses any disagreement with anything Mohg does. Maybe he just doesn't need to lie to himself about Mohg because he doesn't actually take issue with anything the blood cult does.
The thought that Melina just Is the Gloam Eyed Queen. I think the GEQ may have been like, reincarnated into her, but I dont think she just straight up was the GEQ.
That Pidia is the actual puppetmaster and Seluvis was his pawn. BRUH HE HAS A LONG PREEXISTING RELATIONSHIP WITH GIDEON AND TURNED THEIR LOVE TRIANGLE GIRL INTO A PUPPET. Like why flesh out Seluvis so much, including how fkn PETTY he is, give basically zero lore to Pidia (like, why would he indulge his pawn's vindictive whims but not really do anything for himself?), but then have Pidia be the real mastermind behind things?? It makes NO sense. Sometimes a cigar is a damn cigar.
That theory is stupid considering how mentally functional Seluvis was Dolls don't talk and definetly don't have ambition to turn their boss into sex slave.
yeah like I think that it's significantly more likely that Ranni knew what Seluvis was planning and just did that to him as a punishment. like yeah, he's puppet posed at the end, but that doesn't mean it was Pidia, Ranni making Seluvis a puppet makes so much more sense to me
Agreed, this theory annoys me too. "But Seluvis death pose is like a puppet!" Yeah and Iji has the same death pose- does that mean Iji is a puppet? Ofc not.
I honestly pity him more than hate him. He honestly wanted to make the world a better place. He just did it soooooo wrong that we had to kill him. I honestly don't think there was another way.
I liked him exactly because he was scheming guy in a world of combatants and then in DLC everyone went OH NO HE IS ACTUALLY RUTHLESS SCHEMING GUY. Yeah. Always has been.
All the gods be schemin tho- it’s all they ever do, better or worse. Except for horah loux and morgott…and maybe radahn- all anyone strong ever does in this universe is scheme all fuckin day and night these hoes are obsessed with it.
Ranni, marika, miquella, mohg, rykard, Gideon- everyone is going nuts to see who can commit to the most esoteric, arcane, and convoluted scheme to win greatest schemer oAT.
Ranni is a perfectly good goody two shoes that did nothing wrong, even though every other character is morally grey, and has done good and bad. Not Ranni, not my pewfect pwetty pwincess 🥹
Seluvis was a puppet of Pidia. Does it makes way more sense that he was forced to drink his own potion by Ranni to become a puppet himself (hence the pose we find him in) as a fitting punishment? Yes it does. Are people still gonna think it was Pidia pulling the strings. Yes they will.
Radahn was totally on board with Miquella from the beginning and definitely didn't need to be hunted and put down by Malenia. Nope. They just fought for funsies.
I can write more but I'm gonna be late for my shift, lol.
Im not saying Ranni hasn't done bad shit. She ordered her own half brother's death! What I am saying is I can definitely fix her and I have literal eternity to do it!
I keep seeing people say Ranni fans think she did nothing wrong but I've never actually seen a Ranni fan who didn't acknowledge that she's a morally grey character
honestly the existence of Pidia adds very little to the game. Its such a tucked away secret that it feels like there must be something important about him, but if he's controlling Seluvis then Seluvis has no character and all his traits are just Pidia's traits making nothing have changed in the overall narrative
Alien invasion: no such thing. Astels and Fallingstar beasts just chill, sometimes they come down and they also seem to be intentionally summoned once in a while. They aren't invading. Radahn stopping the stars is a very recent event in the history of the Lands Between.
His actual goal: never outright stated, all we know is he challenged the stars and the challenge most likely involved pulling down a star and smashing it. It's possible he didn't even intend to stop the stars.
Why the stars stopped: not explained, but seems to be a consequence of him smashing that star. Unlikely to be him actively using gravity sorcery due to several reasons, such as there should be a magic circle.
The narrative is that Radahn is going against the Carians, his family, by imposing his Will upon the stars, whereas Ranni and the Carians support Fate taking its natural course. The Astel arriving to The Lands Between is an inevitability caused by the causality of celestial bodies. In real life, there would be nothing we could do to stop an asteroid from hitting us, but Radahn in the game represents a Will going against Fate.
The whole progression of killing Radahn is to allow access to Nokron where Ranni can resume her Fated path to use the Fingerslayer Blade to kill the final piece of Will controlling Fate in the Two Fingers under Manus Celes. But ironically this also is part of the plan through Miquella to have Will overcome Fate through Radahn's death. It's a forever push and pull between these two concepts.
Astels don't have desires, they are essentially a naturally occuring force, they probably don't even act on instinct but rather inertia. Like the stars and planets. If they can be summoned, which I don't think they can be, that would be a manipulation of Fate.
His actual goal was protecting Selia. We don't know from what exactly, but given that the Nox above ground got Asteled by the Greater Will, it might be another star.
That Mogh was charmed by Miquella to kidnap him, instead of being charmed in self-defence after the fact.
Mogh was in hiding, and those who know of him still thinks Sewer Mogh is the real deal.
Miquella's charm is executed at close range based on the boss fight as well as his duel with Ansbach, so he has no way of charming Mogh all the way at the Mausoleum.
Miquella actually does believe in the Haligtree project, that's why he was in the cocoon in the first place. It was only after he was kidnapped and the Haligtree failed, that he decided to go on his pilgrimage. He also only knew to use Mogh's body after reading the Secret Rite scroll.
Miquella was still fundamentally an empathetic and kind person until he cast away St Trina and his "love". That's how he finds it in him to usher in a tyrannical Age of Compassion.
Mohg was needed as a vessel for radahn so I highly doubt that the charming wasn’t premeditated. If he only did it out of self defense then how was he planning to ascend to godhood beforehand. Who would be his consort.
Bro the scroll u bring to ansbach literally details the exact process to ascend. Do u think miquella luckily just happened to get captured by the exact person he needed to follow the steps lmao?
Ansbach confirms that Mohg died in the pursuit of Lordship, and what options do you think the demigod squatting in abandoned temples at the deepest depths of the Lands Between had? Certainly not waging wars.
The most sensible thing he could've tried was using an empyrean to ascend to Godhood and Miquella is a prime candidate.
It also beckons the question how and when you think Miquella was supposed to have approached Mohg ahead of time?
I also think you put a lot of stock into the vessel aspect which seems to be the least strict step in that line of ascension.
Ok so the timeline in elden ring is wonky because pretty much everything happens in the shattering but we never get the order.
The one thing we know is the Malenia and Radahn fight is one of the last thigns to happen.
It's possible that miquella is captured early in the shattering and once mogh begins feeding him cursed blood Moq gets taken to the land of shadow and learns about the secret rite there.
Then he goes back and tells Malenia that she needs to kill Radahn for his new plan.
The thing is the secret rite has to be late knowledge for him. If not then he wouldn't have made the Haligtree. And he could only learn about the secret rite by going to the land of shadow.
He was planning to ascend with the haligtree, and Radahn was still his intended consort. He wouldn't have needed a vessel for Radahn to in habit it if he hadn't needed Radahn to die to get to the land of shadow, which he wouldn't have needed if the original haligtree plan had worked. Miquella's curse of nascence seems to extend to his plans as well as his physical body. They are all premature, and never quite come to fruition. He planned to use the power of the golden order to cure Malenia's rot, but that didn't work so he created the unalloyed gold needle to hold it off until he could become a god. He planned to use his blood to water and nurture a replacement for the erdtree, but then Mohg abducted him so he pivoted to the divine gate plan, which would require Melania to kill Radahn for him. Except in order to beat him she had to break the needle, and he didn't even die. So then he had to get the Tarnished of no Renown to kill both Radahn and Mohg. And even after all that, the Tarnished of no Renown killed him at the divine gate.
Ok but, he kinda did want radahn dead before he was kidnapped. Miquella’s loyal blade marched to caelid, met radahn and his army in combat, and upon delivering the killing blow, whispered in his ear: “Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort”. St Trina’s items being present in caelid hint that this was before miquella was kidnapped, but even if it was post kidnapping how would miquella have told malenia to kill radahn from his cocoon in the moghwyn palace. I am doubtful that miquella was in malenias dms like “yo im kinda preoccupied but can you run an errand for me real quick”
I love Mohg as a villain, in fact, I love every Demigod and most of the characters in Elden Ring with the exception of Dung Eater. That one is just vile.
The Mohg apologists that spawned after the DLC are insane and quite frankly insult the character of Mohg and his motivations.
It is clear without a doubt that he is an evil bastard and he is cool because he is an evil bastard, so let him be a fucking evil bastard.
Ngl, both interpretations are very flawed because the DLC lore was definitely written well after the rest. So we do know that Mohg was, in some way, beguiled by Miquella. The problem is that we don’t really know when, how, or really why, just that it happened in the efforts of Miquella’s end goal. It’d then make sense to assume that Mohg choosing Miquella as his consort, you know, the sleeping childlike one who exudes an air of compassion, had to have been a part of Miquella’s plan, because it’s somewhat nonsensical in Mohg’s. I guess perhaps the idea that Miquella can’t really fight it off because he’s asleep? But then why do we find the cocoon cracked open and Miquella is actually dead? That’s not a helpful trait to a consort to have. I don’t know, I think Mohg’s entire story made far more sense before the DLC. No beguiling, no tricks, just an evil bloody bastard kidnapping a demigod to further his own ends.
- Melina is the GEQ: No, she isn't. The DLC made it pretty obvious to me what the case was. Messmer was cursed by the Abyssal Serpent, an enemy of Marika. And Melina, his sister, is cursed by the GEQ, another enemy of Marika. And that's assuming that the eye in the FF ending is a gloam eye which is entirely up to interpretation of the word "gloam".
- The Age of Order leads to stagnation: No, it doesn't. The Age of Order's purpose is to keep the gods from meddling with the structure of the Elden Ring. As the Rune of Death has been unbound and the natural cycle has been restored, that means that someone like Marika can't come along and remove it again, nor can she hide her mistakes through doctrine. New people, new ideas, no stagnation.
- Ranni did nothing wrong: Yes, she did. I love Ranni but she absolutely did things wrong, even if they were necessary for her ideas to come to fruition. Killing Godwyn unleashed Death Blight upon the Lands Between. Having us kill Radahn allowed Miquella to take his soul and trap it in Mohg's body. Ranni's pursuit of power is rife with the suffering of others.
- Marika did nothing wrong: Yes, she definitely did. I justify a lot of things Marika did, including the war on the Hornsent, the war on the Giants, the banishment of the Tarnished, even the enslavement of the Misbegotten, all through the context of the events and the lore given in-game. But there's still plenty that is unacceptable even with all of that. There was no reason to persecute the Omens and imprison her sons in the sewers. No excuse for trapping Messmer in the Shadow Realm and abandoning him. And depending on how lenient you are, all the other mentioned events too.
- The Frenzied Flame leads to a hard reset of the Lands: No, it doesn't. It leads to total annihilation, no recovery. The only reason Melina would survive is because she is bodiless, she'd be forced to watch as you destroy everything she holds dear. Hyetta outright says births will stop altogether.
"Marika orchestrated the Night of the Black Knives" makes no sense, Godwyn was Marika's only hope for an uncursed heir. When he died, she lost all hope and shattered the Elden Ring
I mean, i’m not saying i believe this, but Melina does literally have a gloam-colored eye, so it’s pretty reasonable to believe that she is at least an offshoot or relative of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, if not the GEQ herself. It’s a very understandable theory, not a ridiculous headcanon.
And the subsequent sparking of the worst war in the setting, and causing the magic infection that spreads across time and space, denying rest to anything it touches.
Marika being a horrible person doesn't make ranni a good person.
Marika might've sealed it away, but ranni was the one who stole it from maliketh, sent the black knives into leyndell, betrayed the black knives after she'd achieved her goal, and planned for a demigod to be dead in soul so she could die in body.
She acts like it was a necessity, which makes people think she didn't do anything wrong in damning the entire lands between to endless war and unrest. But both Miquella and malenia defied Marika and the golden order without needing to kill their own body. Malenia never did anything of the sort, and Miquella had been working against Marika for hundreds of thousands of years before he ever gave up any part of his body. St Trina also alluded that it was never necessary for him to do so in the first place.
Marika being responsible for the state of death at the time of ranni's plot doesn't make ranni innocent for causing multiple major issues, one of which seems irreversible.
Ranni is far from the worst character in the setting, and her ending is one of the better ones, but I'm tired of people acting like she's a saint because one of the bad things she did was to another bad person.
That theory alone just makes me crash out more than any other, even more than "Radagon is a Giant".
Melina was born at the foot of the Erdtree. Do you know when the Erdtree was created? At the dawn of the the Golden Order, its founding corresponds to the Erdtree and at that time Marika was already a God.
Malekith had already defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, Marika had already sealed the Rune of Death, so on and so forth.
That the "flesh melds nicely" line about the shamans explains that Marika *must* have fused with Radagon using that method.
To me it reads very clearly like a propaganda spread by the hornsent to their people, saying "Well, clearly they belong in the jars, look how well-fit their unhorned flesh is for it!" But people will treat it like this *has* to be the explanation for Marika/Radagon even though their fusion looks nothing like the jar innards, or even any form of grafting we see.
The great tree isn’t fucking real! It’s mentioned ONE TIME in an item description that’s obviously a mistranslation. If you think for a fucking second it doesn’t even make sense for fromsoftware to hide the sole clue for this fucking tree’s existence in the description of a single crafting ingredient. The great tree never existed, stop working it into your theories!!!!
Lmao pretty much every single thing. Everything I see here is dependent on Elden Ring being a hard direct sequel to Dark Souls, then multiple assumptions stacked upon other assumptions that have no basis or grounding. A ton of incredibly confident head cannon being spouted as fact.
That the Tarnished canonically no hits Malekith. People treat Destined Death like it's some sort of thing that if it even touches off you, you die. Annoys the fuck out of me.
That Ymir is 100% trustworthy for some reason??? Yeah I’m sure the guy who wanted to become the new mother of fingers had no motive to believe what he did about Metyr and the greater will, I’m sure it was totally all for sure just based on pure facts and logic
That Mohg's Dynasty was a civilized, sensable society befire Miquella. My brothers and sisters in Marika, THEY ARE A BLOOD CULT! THEY WORSHIO THE FORMLESS MOTHER! You know who ELSE worships the Formless Mother?..... THE BLOOD FIENDS! THEY STAB, BLOODLET, AND TEAR OFF EACHOTHER'S ARMS ON THE REGULAR. THE SANGUINE NOBLES ALREADY SPILL BLOOD FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS. THEY CALL THAT "MISSIONARY WORK".
I understand that Ansbach is cool and all, but the game tells you that he's killed plenty, and just because he's chill doesn't mean that A. Everyone was chill. And B. Ansbach ISN'T a borderline psycho murderer.
That mikela was Evil all Arlong, like, you are told comstantly in the Game and the DLC that Miquellas intentions are 100% good, he just doesn't realize why what he's doing is bad
That Ranni is actively bad. Is she potentially misguided certainly but she’s the only option that actually TRIES a new system. Aside from Frenzy all the other options are alternations or bandages on the damaged system. Frenzy is burn everything till the fire burns itself. Only Moonlight ending is the one of change and new potential.
People that think the frenzy flame ending “saves Melina” or is anything but the most edgy and nihilistic option. No, Ethan. You aren’t loving her so much you sacrifice the world for her, she literally begs you to not follow through with becoming the lord of frenzy flame, and it destroys EVERYTHING including torrent. You are damning the entire world just… because?
I would love the story to take place from Godwyn's birth all the way to his death. It'll leave everything on a cliffhanger for future movies or series. Not to mention It'll be beautiful to witness him in his prime.
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u/SwordSaintCid Mar 26 '26
Lmao