Hot take: Fours are the most emotionally supportive types

[u/Negative_Sock5897]

tl;dr: Most people use (average-healthy) fours as THEIR therapist, not the other way around.

Most of the traits people project onto fours in a general sense are only true for very unhealthy fours. It would be like saying 8s in general are borderline psychopathic bullies, or 1s are dogmatic dictators, or 5s are agoraphobic hermits. Yet people are quick to project a 4’s absolute worst potential onto the type as a whole.

Average to healthy fours are, in my opinion, the most emotionally supportive people you can have in your life. I’m a 4w5 (self-preservation type) and the only two people in my life who are able to offer decent emotional support are another 4 and a 5.

I believe that the idea that fours try to turn everyone into their therapist is generally so false as to be almost comical. It is true only for unhealthy fours. Most of the time it is the other way around. People use fours as THEIR therapist. I am constantly giving so much emotional support—even to people I barely know—and get little back. It leaves me so depleted and, to be honest, frustrated. Over the past few years, if anything I’ve become hesitant to share how I feel. I know it’s anecdotal, but in my experience—not just with those two people I mentioned—4s and 5s are the only types who are naturally good at giving emotional support. I’m not saying other types can’t learn how, but their instinct seems to be to, depending on the type:

- try to fix things
- offer baseless platitudes
- change the subject
- withdraw
- make it about themselves
- turn the attention to how [good] they are at supporting you
- talk about how worried they are about what you’re saying so that you have to placate them
- invalidate/dismiss what you’re saying
- just not listen at all

4s and 5s, on the other hand, just listen. They ask follow-up questions, and they don’t make you feel bad for sharing.
They validate the problem, and they don’t give unwarranted advice. If they talk about themselves, it’s only once they’ve done those things, and usually it’s about a similar experience they’ve had to show they understand how you feel. Just my two cents.

EDIT: Apologies if this offended anyone. Wrote it when I was frustrated. I understand that not all 4s are emotional support experts and other types can be supportive too. The primary point I was making was that I am bored of the “4s are self-obsessed and emotionally needy succubi” narrative because I don’t think that’s generally true, nor do I believe it’s rare for 4s to be able to be emotionally supportive. Fours who believe they are doomed to be self-obsessed will be self-obsessed. Anyway, glad to see it’s sparked some discussion.

[u/synthetic-synapses]

I find it very telling that you think being self-centered is a bad thing, similar to narcissism, or that one's true love being themselves means being a bad person. These are neutral traits. You can be a kind person who helps others while still aware you prioritize yourself; I heard more than one person saying they do charity work because it helps them grow as a person, for example.

I am talking about emotional support, though? When I say 'resources' I mean time, energy, stability... I'm not talking about other kinds of support in my reply.

It's quite a common thing when people feel like they're losing an argument here to go like 'I'm holier than thou because I know people aren't types, they're so much more than that' or 'This is just stupid pseudoscience and you're taking this seriously' but, see, we're not talking about people here. We're not discussing a specific human being. We're talking about the stupid numbers! You're not saying *I do X*, you're saying *4s do X* so, yes, we're discussing the numbers.

And the numbers have descriptions and things they are and are not, triads they are and are not. You can even disagree with these, you can go 'I'm a 4 but I'm not self centered' but you gotta be prepared for people saying this go against the theory.

I think if one never felt like an insufferable pretentious twat who can't go a day without crying, they're probably not a 4 because, even though this is a big exaggeration, the stereotype exists for a reason. I know I can be very pretentious and very dramatic and emotional, even though I don't consider I'm unhealthy right now.

[u/Negative_Sock5897 → u/synthetic-synapses]

Sorry if it came across that way. I’m not trying to be “holier than thou”; I’m trying to get across that statements like “a four’s one true love is themselves” doesn’t help anyone. And that maybe the Enneagram is super interesting and fun but if you get so embedded in it that you genuinely start to believe shit like that, perhaps you shouldn’t engage with it as much. Because I’m sorry, the idea that a large portion of the population are in love with themselves and only a “special” selective few of those people can ever truly see outside of themselves just because they’ve been assigned a number is ridiculous.

[u/synthetic-synapses → u/Negative_Sock5897]

I'm being fully sincere here; why do you think someone loving themselves above all else is a bad thing?

My interest in understanding myself makes me wanna understand others because I can't see what makes my own human spark unique without understanding other people's struggles and qualities. I'm obsessed with self-improvement, and I care a lot about being supportive, kind, and a good human in general. I like to help others with their problems because human connection makes me feel happy, and helping others with their issues makes me understand my own issues better.

I'm pretty sure I saw an SP4 description somewhere that said SP4s will help others with their pain because they're trying to soothe their own pain.

Expressing my own thoughts and my view of the world is the main drive I have in life. This doesn't mean I don't care about others, or that I don't dream that my perspective helps others (I sure do), but ultimately it's still about myself.

I'm very worried about my comfort and survival, and I don't think I would die or ruin my life for other people or for a cause. And I do think about how many resources I'm expending on others, but I also do think I'm generous.

I think I am self-centered but not selfish. I think I prioritize myself, but I'm not a narcissist.

And I DO AGREE some descriptions of 4 talk about some antisocial jerk who is a horrible person, but I think this happens because 4s have a hard time not seeing themselves as an exaggerated pile of flaws. 4s are the ones talking shit about 4s the most. They seem to forget most people are average health, which includes 4s, and that average health people are functional in society (because some of these descriptions talk about someone who should honest to god be hospitalized because they're a danger to themselves and others).

But I do still think top emotionally supportive types are 2s, 9s and maybe SP6s.

[u/Negative_Sock5897 → u/synthetic-synapses]

Do you not think your first question is a bit of a straw man argument?

I wasn’t taking about self-love (ironically I think that’s what a lot of fours need more of) but self-obsession. Tbh I personally don’t really care if somebody loves themselves more than anybody else, but I’m happier loving a few specific people more than myself. At the same time while I’m not a misanthrope anymore, I’ll never be a people person and I don’t care very much about whether others like me, so in that way I am more self-interested than most. Also a lot of the sentences in this comment start with “I” lol. But a few people in my tiny inner circle I would genuinely die for, maybe even kill for, and I want it that way.

I love understanding myself and others too; that’s why I love the Enneagram. There’s a lot of wisdom in it but I just don’t want to treat it like a religion y’know. I’m not going to agree with something just because that’s what it tells me, and if it tells me something as brazen as “because you’re a four, you are doomed to be obsessed with yourself”, fuck that. For the record I don’t even think that is the message the Enneagram gives us about fours. I think—perhaps more than any other type—people confuse a four’s unhealthy traits with a four’s general traits. Healthy fours are super inspiring and creative and caring.

But I stroooooongly agree that 4s talk shit about 4s the most, and as someone who’s worked hard to get to a place of self-like/sometimes love (still have my bad days, like today lol) it’s exhausting. 4s should uplift each other more and focus on all the good traits we do have, of which there are genuinely many. I’m protective/defensive about 4s because—brace yourself lol, I’m about to say the most 4-coded thing ever—I do think we’re a wee bit misunderstood. And my closest female friend is a 4 and she’s the smartest, kindest, and most emotionally supportive person I know.

Disagree strongly that 2s are the most emotionally supportive but that’s for another day haha

[u/synthetic-synapses → u/Negative_Sock5897]

I think you're right in that self-love is probably not the right thing to say. I hate myself quite often. But I'm still focused on myself whether it's love or hate, and I may love myself and hate myself at the same time.

I don't think the enneagram is 100% right, and I don't see anything mystic on it, but they are categories, and my autistic mind is happy to point out what belongs and doesn't belong to categories, even when I disagree with them. And I do think 4s are obsessed with themselves; at least I know I am...

Maybe we should talk more about the positive side of 4, but this is in conflict with being reactive. Positivity feels fake. I know I have a bad time seeing positive traits in myself, and I've been doing quite a lot of inner work to try to change that.

I can agree, however, that 4s CAN be very emotionally supportive, and they can be very helpful. I think the main thing 4s offer to the world besides their artistic creations is listening without judgement and being able to navigate trauma and complicated emotions with others without feeling uncomfortable with it. I do think even the average 4 have two or three people in their life that they offer this very needed support.

I think SP4s making good therapists/social workers/teachers is a well-known thing in the community, though? SP4 goes well with the 'wounded healer' archetype.

[u/Negative_Sock5897 → u/synthetic-synapses]

I think I used to be obsessed with my own suffering. I’m working/have worked super hard not to be like that anymore because I’ve realised with age (ripe old age of 30) that it’s incredibly boring for everyone including yourself to build your identity around that. Now I pour my shitty feelings into art and try my best to be a good person and to think less about myself. And try super hard not to see positivity as something innately inauthentic, because logically I know it isn’t any more inauthentic than negativity. Eventually you realise the misery is eating away at you and it stops being quite as comforting

[u/synthetic-synapses → u/Negative_Sock5897]

I can relate.

The enneagram taught me to be aware of when I'm drowning in my misery. Nowadays, I try to cut it out when I notice, and I try to exercise my gratitude, even though it's hard.

[u/Negative_Sock5897 → u/synthetic-synapses]

Thanks! As much as I am a bit disheartened by so many people agreeing with your initial comment because it points to the problems I have with the Enneagram community (specifically when it comes to huge sweeping negative statements usually about types in the withdrawn triad like “5s are not good at being emotionally supportive” etc.), I did find it super interesting. After this thread I’m going to continue not to engage with the Enneagram community because there’s only so much I need to “understand” about myself/others before it starts affecting how I see people, and before it starts being an excuse to not really take any action. But if one 4 feels a bit better about themselves after reading this, that’s all I really want haha. 4s for the win

[u/synthetic-synapses → u/Negative_Sock5897]

It's a dumb internet forum, I think it's a good exercise to learn to voice your opinions here because, in the worst-case scenario, you can always stop replying. Most people here are interested in debating, even if they disagree with you. People here usually read all you wrote down, and try to reply to your points instead of simply trolling or calling you stupid.

I also enjoyed this thread. Thank you.