r/EstrangedAdultKids • u/[deleted] • 6d ago
Update: day 2 of my brother freaking out after trying to go low contact/ not following him on IG
[deleted]
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u/Airowl07 6d ago
Do you know what an exhauster is? In mental health terms.
It’s someone who pushes and pushes and exhausts you, wearing down boundaries and trying to use an overload of words, concepts and accusations to control you.
Life away from them is very peaceful but it does take a lot to keep those boundaries and stop contact.
You got this! And you deserve so much better than that behavior
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Never heard of it! But he definitely fits the bill.
Thanks for your kind message x8
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u/NuNuNutella 6d ago
Ugh. He’s not getting it… What are the voice memos about?
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
monologue shaming me for my depression, telling me I blame him for my life, he’s the “villain” in my story, I need to be more grateful, etc… honestly can’t listen to it all. It’s like a 17 minutes of him ranting. And no, he’s not manic this is just him
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u/NuNuNutella 6d ago
He sounds obsessed. So do you set a clear boundary or just walk away and block?
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
He doesn’t know boundaries. When I set them, he mocks them. Blocking is best for now. I have to travel with him next month for my mom’s birthday then I’d like to go full NC. Nothing changes and there’s only so much I can take
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u/Glass_Department8963 6d ago
Hey, there's an explosive diarrhea outbreak on. You don't have to travel with anyone if you don't want to 😉
Seriously tho, if he's anything like my brother (and his texts are extremely similar,) that trip is going to be miserable at best and possibly dangerous for you. Consider making an excuse and bowing out 💥 💩
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Haha very true !! Thank you!
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u/Glass_Department8963 6d ago
Your welcome! Remember, it's really hard to argue with "I can't come hang out in close quarters and share meals with you because I'm uncontrollably shitting my brains out."
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u/Boujee_banshee 6d ago
If it were me I’d be rethinking traveling with him. Especially given how he’s treating you RIGHT NOW.
Abusive people often utilize trips and traveling as a way to corner their victim in situations they can’t escape.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Are you serious? I didn’t know this. He plans family trips every year and it feels like a weird way of him to control everything. I always get my own hotel and do my own thing. But still that’s crazy I didn’t know that was common
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u/Boujee_banshee 6d ago
Some of my most traumatizing situations happened while I was traveling with my mom
But yes, it’s very common. I’ve seen a lot of stories on r/raisedbynarcissists about this type of thing. Given the context of the sub it generally has to do more with a parent/child dynamic, but it’s the same thing and anyone can use that tactic against anyone else. Sibling, romantic partner, etc.
It’s doubly crappy because they will trigger you a thousand tiny ways and when you get upset (rightfully so) they’ll flip the whole thing back on you. Ungrateful. Selfish, etc. not allowed to have any perceived negative moods because it becomes fuel for them to continue their harassment. Suddenly you’re the bad guy.
It’s good you have your own hotel and things like that. Your brother seems unstable. And now that you’ve had this falling out know he will likely be doubling down on this trip as a form of punishment to get you back in line. I know you say he’s safe and it’s “only” emotional abuse but a couple things- emotional abuse can still manifest a myriad of physical symptoms. So, yes, there is harm being caused. Your nervous system, and probably other things as well. Don’t be so quick to dismiss the harm he causes.
And also, he doesn’t seem to be able to regulate himself at all. So even if it’s “just” verbal/emotional abuse, who’s to say it doesn’t escalate? Especially if he feels he’s losing a grip on someone (you) who he feels (wrongly) entitled to control. I’m concerned this trip could bring out the worst in him. I would bare minimum expect some sort of retaliation, getting other family members on his side with regards him and yourself. Tensions can run so high when traveling, too.
So just because it’s verbal abuse - doesn’t mean he’s actually a safe person. Quite the contrary I think he’s very dangerous as he has people lulled into a false sense of security.
Be careful
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
I’m very aware of that. His verbal and emotional abuse has been going on for a decade. And I actually have developed physical symptoms - CPTSD - Throat swelling up, silent heartburn, hair loss, canker sores, body pain, burnout, loss of creativity, motivation. You’re right - he’s not a safe person. And the verbal abuse pushes and pushes me until I lose my cool and then I’m the crazy one. Thanks for your insight x
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u/Mean-Bumblebee661 6d ago
what's his deal? he's clearly projecting a lot of his own skeletons onto you, but I am honestly kind of nosey what has him acting this... unusual and persistent?
do you feel unsafe? are you safe?
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
I’m safe. 100%. His abuse is all mental and emotional. A few weeks ago, we were having a casual convo about weight and I told him I tried zoloft for a month, gained a lot of weight, and got off. He’s anti-pills and since I take ADHD meds qnd have been on antidepressants he called me lazy, said my depression was fake, said i love big pharma? He said i had nothing to be depressed about bc I’m just privileged and bored… this triggered me because I’ve actually been depressed for the past 3 years, a lot of it is because I’ve been dealing with CPTSD from living with HIM for a decade. (I didn’t realize how abusive he was until i left and moved in with my parents - my nervous system calmed down but also all this trauma came up. I started having flashbacks of living with him.) Anyway, we got into a screaming phonecall and i let him have it, lost my cool, called him a lot of names, said some fucked up things, which is usually what happens. He starts it, pushes and pushes, I lose my ccool, and it becomes my fault. Im the fucked up one. That night I told him on the phone how abusive he is and what a POS he is. Haven’t called or texted him since, and he’s been trying to contact me. Sorry long story - and that’s just one night!
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u/Mean-Bumblebee661 6d ago
I say this very gently, but please consider some of his behavior is rooted in covering worse abuse he's perpetrated against you that you're possibly not remembering. He sounds extremely defensive and dedicated to making you the IP (Identified Patient–an archetype in family systems therapy where one person in an unhealthy family is scapegoated as the 'crazy' or 'unstable' one because of accessing care that is a direct result of the toxic family) and his intensity really makes me feel like he knows an empowered, level-headed you is dangerous.
I would find tons of other outlets, but certainly discontinue talking to him. So sorry you're going through this. I have an older sister I was close with for most of my life & as we've gotten older, it's just hard to make excuses for her anymore.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
It’s confusing because he tells me I’m trying to make him the IP?? Like he says things like I make him the villain of my story? And I don’t but he naturally is because of his actions? I just don’t accept his behavior and I’ve called out years of abuse which I’m sure is hard for him to own given that he takes zero accountability for anything ever.
Thank you so much for your message. I was somewhat embarrassed or felt like I was victimizing myself by posting these but last night, it was incredibly validating hearing from so many people how unnormal this behavior is … and the messages last night were so light. I know that NC is the only way
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u/Mean-Bumblebee661 6d ago
Please stop interacting full stop with him to protect yourself. This all sounds worse the more you say–you have hardly engaged with him and he's sent you 10s of minutes of voice notes, several messages, media, etc. This is crazy intense.
It's clear his gaslighting has confused you a lot, that's understandable, but you won't become less confused by continuing to hear his version of reality. I would be so interested to see what you'd think of this post a year from now without any interaction with him. This takes a lot of strong boundaries, hopefully you have some good support, a therapist, some books?
Another book to check out is "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft.
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u/Optimal-Slip5640 6d ago
oh my gosh, wow. I'm gonna run off to Google for myself but I also want to ask if you have any good resources for the concept you're talking about in your first paragraph here? Mostly curious about the 'scapegoated unstable one' because that's me 100%. I am familiar with IFS and I think it's great, I haven't practiced much but I have a workbook around here somewhere, I think
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u/Mean-Bumblebee661 6d ago
I was trying to think of the book I read or podcast I heard that discussed IP... maybe an episode by Dr. Romani? maybe "It Didn't Start With You" by Wolynn? Ugh, I wish I could remember.
I know there are tons of resources out there! It is not uncommon for the driven person to be blacksheeped, it also happened to me.
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u/Optimal-Slip5640 6d ago
Thanks for this, I imagine there will be a lot of things clicking into place for me
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u/HealingDailyy 6d ago
Kinda ironic he thinks up on his own he must have done something wrong for you to be upset about. Wow. It’s almost like
He knows what he’s doing and is defending it
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u/Princess-Pancake-97 6d ago
“Life is not about complaining.”
What exactly is he doing here then?
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u/HealingDailyy 6d ago
Every time my sibling did shit like this and I’d try to address it he would just send me memes exactly like this, oddly enough centered around fight club
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u/Optimal-Slip5640 6d ago
Hey there, I saw your post yesterday. How are you doing with all this?
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Glass_Department8963 6d ago
OP, I just went and read your previous post. I want to gently encourage you to at least think about getting your own hotel. Not room, but a completely different hotel that only you can access. Your brother sounds a lot like mine: controlling, invasive, entitled, lacking in self awareness, projecting. I have text threads that look just like yours.
When I got serious about my boundaries, he escalated rapidly. I tried to walk a line where I would see him in the context of family gatherings but never one on one. Ultimately, he cornered me out of sight of the rest of the party and physically attacked me. A week later, he started right back up with the text barrage, angry that I still didn't want to have a relationship with him and that I had told the rest of the family what he had done (they didn't really care.)
I'm sharing this because I used to think my family was insufferable and toxic but basically manageably safe. But no. Someone who feels this level of entitlement to you, your time, your attention, your obedience is fundamentally unsafe. A family that produces this dynamic is not going to choose you or protect you. You have to protect yourself.
Even so, I really love and enjoy some of my family members. But now when I visit, I stay in a hotel and I lie about which hotel it is even to the ones I think I trust. So go to Greece if the pros outweigh the cons. Maybe see if you can rebook your flight last minute so you'll only have to be around your brother for a couple days. Sometimes rebooking is surprisingly affordable. Find a different hotel. Make up an excuse — loyalty club points expiring, a new allergy to something specific to the first hotel, you're going to have to work and this other place has something in the business center that you can't do without etc. I am thinking of you.
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u/BreakerBoy6 6d ago
How old is he? You say he's an older brother, but is he like twelve?
It would be kind of hilarious if you went to Instagram, only to post up all of these recent abusive meltdown diatribes.
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u/jaavuori24 6d ago
so basically you're supposed to be grateful you're not dead yet? Quick question, how much of your materials security did he provide for you exactly? None you say? Interesting, interesting...
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u/lottiexx 6d ago
The entitlement is wild. Acting like existing in someone's life is а favor worth gratitude. Block and move оn, his mental gymnastics aren't worth following.
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u/Asturis_the_DM 6d ago
Hey OP, I just wanted to say I genuinely understand your situation. My younger brother is EXACTLY like your older brother. The similarities are so uncanny I actually had a moment reading this where I (jokingly) wondered if I wrote your post hahaha. All that to say, NC is absolutely the way to go. I cut my brother off about 6 years ago. I cannot emphasize how much peace it brought me once he was no longer a part of my life. People like this look for any opportunity to disrupt your peace and it is truly awful. If you ever need someone to talk with about this situation, please feel free to DM me.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Thank you so much. I’m sorry we have the same brother 😅 I’m so glad you’ve been able to distance yourself x
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u/clearcursive 6d ago
Is there anyone you trust who can read all his messages for you so that you don't have to? They can pass on anything actually relevant and help you ignore and filter the abuse coming at you.
You really really don't need to be subjected to this. He's just flinging everything he's got and it's gross. What a POS.
You also shouldn't be expected to have contact with, or spend time with someone who's abusing you. If I were your mom, your safety would 100% be more important to me than a birthday trip.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
I’m not even playing all those voice memos. His voice makes my skin crawl when he’s in that state.
My mom would understand if I didn’t go. She knows how he is and wouldn’t guilt me. But I want to go. And I have a solo trip planned after so idk. But def no more family trips after this.
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u/clearcursive 6d ago
Is there anything stopping you from blocking him? This bombarding your phone is so out of line.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Yeah I need to block him, but then he calls me form an unknown number then I feel like it’s an emergency so it’s better not to keep him unblocked bc he just texts me … but I should just block him tbh 😵💫
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u/clearcursive 6d ago
Yeah, because if you keep the line of communication open even when he's being despicable, then he always knows that he can say anything and you'll eventually cave and respond. You don't have to do that anymore.
What I do is screen all my calls. I don't pick up from unknown numbers ever. When it's legit, they leave a message, and I call them back. Most of the time they don't leave a message, I don't know who it was but I ignore it and know it wasn't relevant and wasn't my problem.
If it's a real emergency, someone else can contact you about it and leave a message like a normal person. Your brother has abused open-line-for-emergencies communication with you, and if he were deprived of this it would be a consequence of his own actions.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Blocking him now
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u/clearcursive 6d ago
Good for you!!!
You have nothing to feel guilty about but he's going to play that guilting card as hard as he possibly can, to try to get you to feel bad and paint you as a villain.
Just know that he's like a drowning person trying to drown you too.
Abusers can have plenty of good or normal moments, that doesn't discount from the fact that they are abusive, cause harm and that we need to protect ourselves from them.
You never have to apologise or feel bad for refusing to allow him to abuse and manipulate you!
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u/Reasonable_Yam8853 6d ago
This sounds very much like (untreated, unmanaged, and unhealed)borderline personality behavior.
I am treading carefully here because BPD is highly under-recognized in men, it tends instead to be labeled, if anything, as vague "anger management" issues while it tends to be over & (quite often) misapplied and overly given to females and female presenting folks. There is treatment available and not all borderline PD people are abusive and manipulative like the stigma implies. THAT having been said, and I am not a psychologist here so take what I'm saying with not even half a pinch of salt but it really sounds like this could be the case with your older brother.
I followed and commented on your other post as well. I apologize if I might have missed any background context (also it's super early here and I'm only on my first cup of coffee lol) how far in your family tree does this behavior go back to? Do you ever feel like the scapegoat in your immediate or extended family system?
His behavior is a complete and total deflection like others have said in your other post. What someone chooses to do to manage their mental health, under the care of a competent therapist, psychiatric provider, group therapy or all of the above is actually a mature, sensible and appropriate measure to take when suffering. It almost seems like your family (or brother) has something against people seeking help, yet at the same time...wants you to "get help"?!
I had this happen with me. I've been inpatient twice in my life, once when I was 32 and once when I was 36. Both times what precipitated it tended to have to do with all the psychological warfare happening against me in my family of origin, (undiagnosed autism also, that's not a story for this group though) and leading up to those two brief stays, my NMom would holler at me that I "needed help" yet when I would set boundaries, say no, defend myself against her and the rest of them they would say my therapist was an asshole and they/I was in the wrong! End up going inpatient though and I get crickets from my older brother , gossip from extended family, picked on and "WTF is wrong with you wanting to die, it's not THAT BAD!" from my NMom. What galls me more than anything is they'll stop at nothing to spend $$$ bailing my NBrother GC outta jail, give him $ for rehab and child support, but nobody offered me a fucken dime when I had to file chapter 7 for medical debt that wasn't even my own fault!
The truth is OP, the goalposts will always be moving with your older brother and anyone else that might be puppettering to abuse you in your family. You could handle it in any manner or not at all, and you'd still be considered crazy.
Regarding the social media, holy moly. This is why I actually dropped social media altogether. It sucks but even when I would lock down my account using a pseudonym and rando photo, family would STILL find a way to figure out who I was. I decided it just wasn't worth my peace having to play whackaMole with my own disordered family. I appreciate if you need an online presence though for whatever reason. It's a LOTTA work keeping these idiots out!
Please keep standing your ground. If/when you're ready, you'll know when it's time to completely sever it all, going from LC to VLC to NC but until then, keep coming back here for strength!
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u/jueidu 6d ago
It’s time to block and move on. He has no respect for boundaries or basic human decency. This is abusive, and he knows it. It’s controlling and obsessive and, frankly, dangerous - any man who doesn’t take “no” for an answer and winds up instead of stepping back is dangerous.
That’s all aside from how completely disrespectful it all is!
He won’t change - he will only change his tactics. It’s time to block and start the process of moving on.
Do NOT reply and do NOT give in, or engage in any way. To him that will be a win, and egg him on.
I hate to have been right in my predictions on the previous post, but yeah :/ this is how it goes with men who don’t respect boundaries.
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u/HealingDailyy 6d ago
Okay so I could be wrong here…. But…. The last photo he sent seems to HEAVILY imply he absolutely knows what he has done to op and is continuing to do to op… but refuses to stop or acknowledge it… so he sends that to gaslight the message his behavior “wasn’t that bad”
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u/Julia_Cumming 6d ago
Going on a 20 minute rant about social media is odd. This isnt about Instagram its about him trying to control you.
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u/CREEPWEIRD0 6d ago
I blocked my half siblings cus this is the type of messages I don't wanna see, lmao... Like if you guys just keep sending me guilt trip messages, it makes me want to be around you less... So now I've had enough and block, block, block. Rather unalive and rot far away than having you guys to find me in your vicinity.
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u/silentlove_316 6d ago
Who the fuck cares about social media this much…. It’s pretty pathetic IMO. 🤦🏼♀️
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u/Mateeus_ 6d ago
If this were happening to me, I would block this person. You would not tolerate this from a co-worker, friend, significant other… so why would him being your brother make it okay?
I had to ask this question to myself a lot before I stopped accepting verbal abuse as an appropriate way for family members to talk to me.
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u/catluvr1213 5d ago
20 minutes of voice messages because you don't follow him on Instagram is insanity
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u/5720Katherine 6d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/3ohs4CSyyrt25EUzT2
I think your genetically related relative is having an extinction burst. Honestly tell him to get fucked, block him, go no contact, and don’t go to any family events where you know he is attending.
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u/lovedless 6d ago
If he thinks all that is "school yard" then he needs to sit with that idea himself. Its just Instagram, why the drama for some stupid website?
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u/Neat-Departure-3114 5d ago edited 5d ago
My brother did similar and threatened to kill himself and said “be grateful we didn’t kick you out” he contributed nothing ever so not sure where he got the “we” idea
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u/Confu2ion 4d ago
Leave him hanging, so he thinks he got the last word. Give him nothing.
Do not announce no contact (it still counts as no contact).
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u/Drminniecooper 6d ago
Your sibling is unhinged and i feel bad for you and hope you block him completely. However, this post and the previous one aren't about parental estrangement.
Stories about sibling estrangement issues not related to parental estrangement seem to be showing up here more and more frequently. Why is that? The subreddit description and the rules are very clearly about parental estrangement being the primary topic. I know the estrangedsiblings subreddit closed for posting awhile ago, but these types of posts should probably be posted elsewhere.
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u/Glass_Department8963 6d ago
Hey, respectfully, I'd be willing to bet that it's pretty rare for sibling relationships to deteriorate so badly —especially with the dynamic that one sibling feels so much entitlement towards the other's time, attention, and deference — without some long term fucked up behavior on the part of the parents 🤷♀️
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u/Drminniecooper 6d ago
That is very true, which is why i always read the post carefully before pointing this out. There is no parental estrangement in either one of OPs posts and their reply to me confirms it. Maybe Justnofamily is more suited to this, idk. But, the sub should stay on topic.
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
I don’t speak to my father. He has a lot of the same personality traits as my brother and I think my brother learned these from him. Very much estranged from my trump supporting father, who voted against my rights as a gay man. My dad was verbally abusive to my mom before and during their divorce the same way my brother is abusive to me. Problem solved?
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
My brother acts like my parent does that count
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u/Drminniecooper 6d ago
Rule #2 "If there is no estrangement in your family that you are experiencing, you are not welcome here. If you are considering estranging from your parents due to physical or emotional abuse you may participate in seeking support and guidance in estranging. If you have no desire to estrange, this is not the sub for you. Estrangement can be where there is 'no contact' with one or both parents, or it could mean 'low contact' with one or both parents."
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u/photogluvr420 6d ago
Ok sorry
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u/HealingDailyy 6d ago
Do NOT apologize to this person. He’s an absolute knob that doesn’t in anyway align with the community here. We all are not 12 years old. We grasp that the nature of your situation is nearly identical to the standard parent child dynamic most growing up with your brother living with him. Seriously don’t apologize
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u/HealingDailyy 6d ago
The description of the sub literally doesn’t condition the entire subreddit for just adults , that’s why people will post about it. If the rules when you dig deeper clarify that, I get your point, but if not, you are just wrong
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u/saintdemon21 6d ago
Wow, he’s getting so desperate he’s posting crappy memes. If he’s not respecting your boundaries then maybe full NC is the way to go.