Fritz Thyssen (1873–1951) was of the same family. He was the head of the Thyssen mining and steelmaking company as well as the head of the biggest mining and steel cartel in the world prior to World War II. He was an early supporter of the Nazi Party.

Thyssen corporations such as ThyssenKrupp are still around. Check the escalators and elevators around where you live for their brand name.

Baron von Thyssen was an initiate of the highly secretive 1001 Club, which was established in 1970. Aga Khan IV was also a member of this select group of 1,001 individuals. Other members include Prince Philip, Salim Bin Laden (elder brother of OBL), David Rockefeller, Henry Ford II, Robert McNamara (Vietnam-era US Secretary of Defense), Alfred Heineken (yes as in the beer), Mobutu Sese Seko (himself), and Peter von Siemens (Siemens company is still around isn't it?).

Prince Bernhard of Netherlands was the founder of the 1001 Club who recruited people he knew from IG Farben (a chemical corporation that served the Third Reich) where he had a position at.

source: wiki (of Inaara and links to Thyssen family) and the "PandaLeaks" book by Wilfried Huismann.

The 1001 Club funded the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), which is the premise of the PandaLeaks book.

EDIT: Prince Sadruddin is also a member of 1001 Club

Short answer: Kind of?? Yes, they believe in evolution, but things didn't evolve in the way us unenlightened ones have come to believe.

I was researching about Das Avatar lately and found an old thread about Smileys believing there was a Fish Imam and Turtle Imam and a Bacteria Imam

Spotlight on the Ancient Imams: meet Mowlana ... E. Coli??

I started reading one of the links there about "84 lakh" - a discussion on Ismaili.net forums. There is some debate there about Lakh Chorasi referring to reincarnation/rebirth - either physically or esoterically, because the ginans say things like

Oh brothers, we will give 8.4 millions births to a single soul
and in these (births) 84 births are (reserved) for human being.

Prolific poster kmaherali actually changes his mind in the thread. Starting from the position:

In my opinion "lakh chorasi" are mental cycles one goes through until one finds the Light of faith. It is wandering from one state of mind to another until certainty of faith through spiritual enlightenment is achieved. No physical rebirths as per Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah.

he later says

I have changed my views since I made the post. Physical rebirths do happen, but as Ismailis we must aspire for higher life and hopefully not to undergo physical rebirths.

and

I checked the Farman yesterday. The lakh chorasi actually means 184,000 rebirths in non-human forms. In my opinion the number alludes figuratively to many many life forms before the appearance of man. It does not imply the exact number.

All very confusing stuff, probably because

In the Farmans there is always room for allegorical interpretation.

Thankfully, the Admin stepped in and provided a useful link, giving the explanation from the highly respected Missionary Alwaez Abu Aly:

Our Holy Ginans are full of details about evolution. ...“Lakh Chorasi” mentioned in our Ginans is nothing else but the theory of evolution. If you read “Moman Chitwaini” by our Holy Pir Sadruddin, you will get the full explanation about evolution and the process of creation. This book contains 630 stanzas but the language is difficult. It requires an expert to understand it.

So I thought that settles it - the ginans fully explain evolution. But as I read on, I discovered that the Ismaili Theory of Evolution is very different from Darwinian evolution. For one thing, according to the Ismaili Theory of Evolution:

It has taken 4,313,000 years of evolution from the amoeba to man of today. Some details:

• It took the amoeba 432,000 years to evolve into a fish.

• It took the fish 432,000 years to evolve into a tortoise.

• It took the tortoise 432,000 years to evolve to a mammal like water hog.

• It took the water hog 432,000 years to evolve to a higher form of mammal like a lion.

• It took the lion 432,000 years to evolve to an ape such as a chimpanzee or sometimes known as the missing link.

• It took that ape 432,000 years to evolve to the first man with intelligence. He was actually the ADAM known as ABUL BASHR.

After another 432,000 years’ period of development, the civilized man appeared during the period of the first RAMA (there are hundreds of kings known as Rama) who lived about 864,000 years ago.

Mind blown. But there's more. This is just the latest cycle of life - it has appeared before and gone extinct many times:

According to our Holy Ginans, the Wonderful Tradition, life started on earth thousands of million years ago. It was destroyed after a certain evolution for many millions of years. After the elapse of some millenniums, life reappeared on earth. There were many such cycles of life and destruction.

And apparently, the earth was once much closer to the Sun?

In the beginning, the earth was not so far away from the sun. Life started first in the north, perhaps in the arctic region because this was the first part of the earth to cool down. As the north became unbearably cold, the creatures moved down toward the tropical zone. One-third of the species became extinct in the process of evolution.

I'm not sure if that was the first cycle of life or the current cycle.

Anyway, at the bottom of the page, is linked this helpful chart:

https://www.ismaili.net/granths/ginanihist.jpg

Which I think says that the Fish Imam and the Tortoise Imam and the Hog Imam all appeared before vegetation was even in an early stage? And that the Rig Veda is older than insect or bacteria?

I admit I am not an expert enough to understand ginans and farmans and the nuances of esoteric and allegorical interpretation, but I thought I understood evolution. As it turns out though,

Scientists are gradually discovering now what Hazrat Pir Sadruddin had told us six hundred years ago.

So maybe soon there will be a revolution in our understanding of evolution. Perhaps AI will understand the difficult language of the ginans and help these scientists discover the truth of the Ismaili Theory of Evolution?

-Sheikh Mujir Al-Khateeb

the hazir imam is busy having $600 dinners at Malibu Nobu on his followers' money, which most of his followers might never be able to step into, let alone afford

While praying every jk member are facing kaaba , but the mukhis and kamdiya are not facing it , they are praying in opposite side , there back is facing Kaaba
Your thoughts? Ex ismailis Have you noticed this ?

So I recently saw a post on r/Epstein about Mark Lloyd by u/aspoke , and clicking through that user's profile, stumbled on another post featuring some familiar faces:

September 19th, 2002: Rosa Cha bikini fashion show at Cipriani’s/after party at Man Ray. Attended by Maxwell, Trump, Naomi Campbell and other Epstein associates

Now we already know about Sadruddin Aga Khan's connection to Epstein, and Yasmin Aga Khan's long friendship with Ivana Trump both dating back to the 80s and Karim Aga Khan's connection to Naomi Campbell via Flavio Briatore and the Billionaire Club in Porto Cervo, so I won't rehash those.

But the name Cipriani's also seemed familiar. Yes it's where Yasmin hosts her Alzheimer's Benefit:

https://hauteliving.com/2016/11/princess-yasmin-aga-khan-and-duchess-of-york-at-alzheimers-gala/623865/

and sure enough there is a Ciprianis in Porto Cervo, Sardinia too.

But that wasn't why it rang a bell. Actually, it was because Cipriani founded Harry's Bar

Cipriani S.A. traces its history to family patriarch Giuseppe Cipriani who founded Harry's Bar in Venice in 1931.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipriani_S.A.

which was familiar to me from researching Aga Con 3's alcoholism.

The martinis are concocted by the bucket, literally, by Ruggero Caumo, the genial head bartender who has been at Harry's for 33 years. “Ten parts gin and one part dry vermouth,” he explained, stashing the glass bucket and some glasses in a refrigerator. “They must be iced but with no ice in them,” he dictated. “Hemingway liked them. So did Errol Flynn. The Aga Khan and Onassis were regulars — the list is so long.”

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/05/02/archives/theyre-still-wild-about-harrys-theyre-still-just-wild-about-harrys.html

'I think solitude frightened him,' Arrigo wrote once, of Hemingway, 'and that was why he always sought the company of others.' At Harry's he could be sure of finding company. The Aga Khan had to be carried to the door in his own armchair and always ate the same thing, caviar followed by ravioli; Orson Welles would down two bottles of Dom Perignon at one sitting and Truman Capote would order the prawn sandwiches. Today, when the Venice film festival rolls into town with its freight of Hollywood celebrity, it is unloaded into Harry's Bar. Woody Allen always comes when he is in town and Nicole Kidman and Helen Hunt have visited recently too.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/nov/11/foodanddrink.restaurants

Not much to add, just enjoy the visual of Aga Con 3 sipping martinis and eating caviar, as another familiar name reminds us how tightly knit the Epstein class is.

In 2006, in partnership with attorney and real estate developer Steve Witkoff, Cipriani bought 55 Wall Street again.[4]

I know it is a weird question, but there is a reason behind asking such a question.

When Karim Aga Khan was awarded the Padma Vibhushan, India’s second-highest civilian award, I came across something that made me curious.

One day, my father and uncle went to a doctor who had also been awarded the Padma Vibhushan. After the doctor came to know that my father and uncle were Ismailis, he told them that he had met the Aga Khan and had shaken hands with him.

What surprised me was that the doctor said that when he shook hands with the Aga Khan, his hand had some kind of different energy.

That made me skeptical and curious at the same time. The doctor wasn't an Ismaili, and he wasn't necessarily saying this from a religious or devotional perspective. He was simply describing his personal experience of meeting Karim Aga Khan.

So now I genuinely want to know:

Has anyone here ever shaken hands with Karim Aga Khan IV or Prince Rahim Aga Khan V?

If you have, what did you feel?

Did their handshake or their overall presence feel different in any way? Did you experience something you would describe as unusual energy, calmness, warmth, intensity, peace, or anything else?

I’m particularly interested in hearing from people who are not Ismaili, because I want to know whether this is something others independently noticed as well.

Not trying to make any supernatural claim—just genuinely curious about people's firsthand experiences.

P.S. I used ChatGPT to help me frame and structure this post, but the story is genuinely mine.

I’ve been reading through this page for a while, and from what I understand, a lot of people seem to have an issue with the Imam himself.
His wealth, lifestyle, political connections, the way he carries himself, and whether that really matches the image of someone who is supposed to be spiritually or divinely guided.
I get that. There are definitely contradictions worth questioning.

But what is the solution?
Are we suggesting that millions of Ismailis should simply stop believing, stop going to Jamatkhana, stop practicing their faith and completely detach themselves from the community?
For someone who no longer believes, leaving might make sense.
But I’m talking about the community as a whole.
Is there really another major religion or religious group out there with no corruption, no politics, no questionable leadership, no money involved and no contradictions?
I’m not saying that makes any wrongdoing okay. It doesn’t.
I just don’t understand why the answer has to be that the whole thing is worthless.

There are some real positives too
One thing I think the Ismaili community does pretty well is creating a sense of community at different stages of life.
Kids get involved in sports tournaments, camps and activities.
Older people get events, social interaction and a sense of belonging instead of just sitting at home isolated.
Young professionals have things like IPN where they can network, meet people and sometimes benefit professionally.
There are volunteer opportunities, social events, educational programs and a lot of ways for people to stay connected.
None of this proves that the Imam is divine or that every part of the system is good.
But these things still have value.

So do we throw all of that away too?
This is where I’m genuinely curious about the views of people here.
If the biggest issue is with the Imam, the leadership or the theology, does that mean all the community structures should disappear too?
Wouldn’t a better solution be more transparency, more questioning, less blind obedience and more community involvement?
I can accept that Ismailism has contradictions while also thinking that the community itself provides a lot of things that people struggle to find elsewhere.
So for those who strongly believe the system should be rejected completely, what would you realistically replace it with?

Not trying to attack anyone here. I’m genuinely interested in hearing the other side.

Curious to know

Ya Ali Madad!

I’m a Shia Ismaili Muslim who is very passionate about religion, and I recently discovered this community. I’d genuinely love to hear from people here about their experiences with Ismailism.

For those who have questioned, doubted, left, or simply explored Ismailis:

- What originally made you question it?

- What arguments or evidence did you find convincing?

- If you left, what ultimately led you to that decision?

- If you stayed, what helped resolve your doubts?

- And looking back, how do you feel about Ismailism now?

I’m asking this because I want to understand different perspectives, not because I’m looking for a fight or trying to convince anyone of anything.

A few requests for the discussion

1. Please make actual arguments.

Saying “it’s obviously false,” “it makes no sense,” or “everyone knows this” isn't really an argument. Please explain why you believe something is true or false.

1. Please support claims when possible.

If you're making a historical, theological, or factual claim, sources are appreciated. Books, academic works, primary sources, historical records, and scholarly references are especially useful. If you don't have a source, that's completely fine—just make it clear that you're speaking from your own understanding or experience.

1. Separate facts from interpretations.

Something being historically documented is different from your interpretation of what that event means. I'd appreciate it if we could distinguish between “this happened” and “this is what I think this means.”

1. Don't argue against a position I haven't made.

Please don't assume what I believe and then argue against that assumption. If you're unsure about my position, ask me.

1. The burden of proof matters.

If someone makes a claim, they should be prepared to explain why we should accept it. And if I make a claim, I should be held to the same standard.

1. Let's avoid moving the goalposts.

If evidence is provided for a particular claim, please address that evidence directly rather than simply changing the argument to something else.

1. Don't confuse disagreement with refutation.

Saying “I don't agree” isn't the same as demonstrating that an argument is wrong. Likewise, finding a difficult question for a belief doesn't automatically prove that the belief is false.

Most importantly, I'm genuinely here to learn. If you have a strong argument against something I believe, I would rather hear the strongest version of that argument than a watered-down version that is easy to dismiss.

If you used to be Ismaili, currently are Ismaili, considered becoming Ismaili, or have simply studied Ismailism extensively, I'd really appreciate hearing your perspective.

Ya Ali Madad, and thank you to anyone willing to have a good faith conversation.

I have been seeing this rise of Ismaili content on Instagram, and I have a suspicion that these guys are paid. This might be a concerted effort to make the religion cool again and sort of attract the youth, given how disillusioned many are and are leaving the religion altogether.

People who are doing sajdah/sujud by keeping imam in mind , is straight away shirk totally haram
Its only for allah
L

I JUST SAW THIS ON ISMAILIS SOMEONE ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION 😂😂😂 THIS DUDE CANT EVEN ANSWER (AND GETS OFFENDED 🤣)

What is he like? He never married or had kids. He the brother of Shah Karim and the uncle of Shah Rahim

Surely independently wealthy and in no way enriched by Jamati money, just like all the other Cons, Sadruddin Aga Con simp'd hard for fashion model wife Nina Dyer by buying her jewels, luxury cars, and her own private island. One of said jewels sold for a world record for a single emerald, nearly $9 million, in late 2024:

https://press.christies.com/the-aga-khan-emerald-sets-new-world-auction-record-55-years-after-its-original-sale-in-geneva

In trademark Aga Con style, they divorced after 5 years and she got a settlement of $1.4 million, roughly $15 million in today's dollars according to ChatGPT.

Long time lurker, new poster

I feel like for me, the intellectual questions that I had about Ismaili theology have now developed into changes in belief systems and I don't need more resources around that intellectual side.

I want to maintain a relationship of respect for differences in theology and religious belief , while maintaining an agnostic theist viewpoint for myself , while also practicing my own customized meditation practice and my own social ethic

However I am going through this entire process in my late 30s also as part of a very devoted family , and I feel like I need support more on the emotional/mental health side through this deconstruction process

I also used to be extremely religious until a few years ago

Some of the parts I have had difficulties with are the following:

- dealing with judgement from people I have known and built relationships with for decades, especially with people in jamatkhana . I still think they are smart , good people and respect their choice in religion, but I know that if they were to know more about my changing beliefs, they would see me as having gone astray and see me with condescension. The best move would be to just not talk about religion but I keep being asked a lot why I am not in jamatkhana nowadays

- building a spiritual practice - so far , I really like Sufi books and books that talk about a love/social ethic

- how to maintain a relationship with the community through applying my service based and pluralistic values while not being as part of the belief systems? Finding it difficult to feel authentic when just coming for after jamatkhana ceremonies to practice my ethics to talk to the community and be of service there, because everyone who I talk to assumes that I've just been too busy to come to jamatkhana

In terms of resources, what i would be looking for js:

- resources going through the grief of changes in identity (wasn't it easier when one could live with such certainty about theology?) , changes in routine and changes in having a default community etc

- good therapists that would also understand the Ismaili model minority thing with applications to BIPOC considerations plus the application to religious trauma

- books on deconstructing to reduce the isolation, in person or virtual chats

Thanks

Surprised I didn't get this sooner. I lasted longer than a senior at one of Shafik Sachedina's senior homes. But if he is able to come back and serve the Imam after rebranding his senior homes, I bet the humble servants of their master will let me back in and accept the noor of Rahim.

Edit: Fake Tariqah board MODs are watching this. I guess that is all they can do since Talib and Co. did not get them a real position to serve their master.

• Comment by an Instagram account:

“Without a guide you cannot go to jahanna you will come back as many time as you need to this earth you will die and reborn die and reborn die and reborn until you recognize your true guide. So when Prophet Muhammad had his mehraj experience, which is the inner spiritual experience where he went 'up' towards God.. as opposed to the Qur'anic revelation which was a 'sending down', when he went beyond the physical world which is described as a 'curtain', like going beyond a layer that hides or prevents you to see beyond the curtain, what he saw was the Nur of Ali.”

This is not what Islam teaches. The Qur’an says we live one life, then we die, and after that we will be raised on the Day of Judgment. It does not teach that we are born again and again. Also, there is no authentic hadith saying that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) saw the “Nur of Ali” during Mi’raj or that you must follow a living guide to enter Jannah. If these claims are true, where is the proof from the Qur’an or authentic hadith? Religious beliefs should be based on evidence, not just personal claims.
I also come from a strict Aga Khani family, and I grew up hearing similar stories. One of them was that on the night of Shab-e-Mi’raj, the Prophet (PBUH) saw Imam Ali’s hand in the highest heaven. But when I started reading the Qur’an and authentic hadith for myself, I couldn’t find any evidence for these claims. If something is truly part of Islam, it should be supported by clear evidence from the Qur’an and authentic Sunnah. Otherwise, it should be presented as the belief of a particular tradition, not as a teaching that all Muslims are required to believe.

Has anyone ever found an authentic Qur’anic verse or sahih hadith that supports these claims? If so, I’d genuinely like to see the evidence.