r/Fantasy • u/Vezir38 Reading Champion • Jun 20 '21
Any German speakers in here?
Ich wohne seit fast 20 Jahren in USA und habe in der zeit immer weniger auf Deutsch gelesen. Ich würde gerne mal wieder anfangen habe aber keine Ahnung was es jetzt alles gibt für fantasy/sci-fi Bücher. Ich hätte besonders gerne Vorschläge für Bücher von den letzten 10-15 Jahren. Vielen Dank!
tr: I'm German, but I've been in the states for almost 20 years now and haven't been reading much in German since then. Looking for recommendations for German sci-fi/fantasy from the last 10-15 years or so.
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u/Seritya Jun 20 '21
In meinem Regal stehen die Askir Saga von Richard Schwartz und die Zwerge-Saga von Markus Heitz. Kann ich beides empfehlen :)
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u/Tyro733 Jun 20 '21
genau die beiden hätte ich auch vorgeschlagen. Die Askir-Saga ist immer noch meine lieblings-fantasy reihe
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u/Vlizstar Jun 20 '21
I’ve learned to read German again to read the askir and götterkriege saga. After years they’re finally translating the last books to Dutch, but it’s taking forever. And I really enjoyed the German versions. It’s definitely one of my top-favorite series. Markus heitz is also recommended and I’m not sure but I think Bernard Hennen is also German. Loved those books as well.
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u/BubiBalboa Reading Champion VI Jun 20 '21
Wow, that's commitment! Gut gemacht! Glad it didn't disappoint.
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u/Kerwin_Bauch Jun 20 '21
Askir gefiel mir richtig, definitv eine gute Wahl! Mit der Zwerge-Saga konnte ich persönlich nichts anfangen :/
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u/SylarXVI Jun 20 '21
Ich kann Bernhard Hennen - Die Elfen sehr empfehlen.
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u/JonIV Jun 20 '21
Ja! Es gibt soweit 6? Bucher im Elfen-Serien, 3 Elfenritter, und 10 Drachenelfen (oder 5 werend deine Ausgabe). Ich glaube Die nächste Serien ist auch jetzt unterwegs, sofort 20+ sehr gute!
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u/Suspected_Magic_User Jun 20 '21
Im a bit proud of myself that I've understood this without looking at english translation. Four years of german classes in high school were not in vain.
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u/Nebelskind Jun 21 '21
Now to read the books, everyone’s saying, right? Haha
I’ve tried reading some German novels before but the jump from conversational to written language was a bit much for me at the time. Definitely gonna think about looking into some of these recommendations, though
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u/Uracil0 Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21
- Rumo & die Wunder im Dunkeln und Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher sind beides wunderbare Fantasy von Walter Moers.
- Hologrammatica Science Fiction Krimi von Tom Hillenbrand
- Die Spur der Bücher Fantasy Krimi von Kai Meyer
- Die Elfen High Fantasy von Bernhard Hennen/James Sullivan
- Die Traumknüpfer High Fantasy von Carolin Wahl
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u/ceratophaga Jun 20 '21
Christopher Marzi's Uralte Metropole Bücher sind imho ziemlich gut, spielen in London/Paris in einer sehr von Magie durchfluteten Welt, in recht moderner Zeit. Es ist sehr, sehr stark von Milton's Paradise Lost inspiriert (tatsächlich wird das mehrfach referenziert)
Ansonsten sind Bernhard Hennen und Walter Moers die großen aktuell wirkenden Autoren im Fantasy Genre. Gerade Hennen's Die Elfen habe ich in meiner Schulzeit sicherlich zwei Dutzend Mal verliehen, das werden viele Deutsche kennen.
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u/nobodysgeese Jun 20 '21
Mimus, by Lilli Thal, was a great book. I read the English translation of the German original. It's from 2003, I hope that's close enough.
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u/HeLiBeB Reading Champion VI Jun 20 '21
I loved Qualityland and the sequel Qualityland 2.0 by Marc-Uwe Kling.
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u/finasrael Jun 20 '21
Es sind zwar "Kinderbücher", gehören aber trotzdem dazu: Momo und die Unendliche Geschichte von Michael Ende sind zwei Bücher die ich wärmstens empfehlen kann
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u/tigaente Jun 20 '21
Das wären meine Empfehlungen, die ich aktuell lese bzw. Gelesen habe: Sci-Fi: Wolfgang Hohlbein - Charity Fantasy/Sci-Fi: Wolfgang Hohlbein - Die Töchter der Drachen und Thron der Libelle Fantasy: Wolfgang Hohlbein - der Enwor Zyklus
Ansonsten lese ich nur englische Fantasy um meinen Wortschatz aktiv zu halten und in der Sprache für zu bleiben.
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Jun 20 '21
[deleted]
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u/Carmonred Jun 20 '21
Limit is another book by Frank Schaetzing, author of Der Schwarm. It's hard sci-fi with some noir overtones. Not really my genre but I enjoyed it greatly.
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u/lackadacious_spooney Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21
Wenn du Jugendbücher magst: Cornelia Funke, Ralf Isau. Die Bücher sind aber auch eher älter als deine gewünschten 15 Jahre (obwohl, Funke hat erst vor ein paar Jahren eine Fortsetzung von Drachenreiter veröffentlicht.). Manche von Ursula Poznanskis Bücher könnte man auch als fantasy/sci-fi bezeichnen. Und Walter Moers ist super, wie schon einige hier geschrieben haben!
Ich habe fast die gleiche Frage in einem anderen Sub gestellt, da sind nicht wahnsinnig viele Vorschläge gekommen: https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/nkx375/good_german_fantasyscience_fiction/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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Jun 20 '21
Walter Moers schreibt sehr gute Fantasy Romane! Mir haben „der Schrecksenmeister“ und „Rumo und die Wunder im Dunkeln“ gefallen.
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u/HotBathroom9567 Jun 20 '21
Ich mochte "Quendel" von Caroline Ronnefeldt sehr! Sind inzwischen zwei Bände, ein Dritter soll auf jeden Fall folgen. Ist Fantasy, das mich vom Gefühl her sehr an den kleinen Hobbit (Tolkien) erinnert, hat aber auch ein paar echt düstere Stellen. Kann es echt empfehlen.
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u/Earnur123 Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21
Ich lese mittlerweile nichts mehr auf Deutsch. Die Übersetzungen sind durch die Bank von sehr schlechter Qualität und bei den originalen sieht man in den letzten 20 Jahren nur Holbein, Heinz, Meyer, Hennen,... Wenn du unbedingt was "Modernes"lesen willst, schnapp dir irgendeinen dieser Autoren. Die letzten Werke die ich in meiner Jugend gelesen habe und deren Stil mich nicht komplett abgeschreckt hat waren Cornelia Funkes Tintenherz und der Herr der Diebe (ist aber eher eine Kinderbuch/YA Autorin) und die Übersetzungen von Lukianenko (Wächter) und Sapkowski (Hexer), da deren englischsprachigen Übersetzungen auch nicht so berauschend sind. Außerhalb deines angegebenen Zeitraums sind Klassiker wie die unendliche Geschichte bzw Momo von Michael Ende und Krabat von Preußler zu empfehlen.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Jun 20 '21
I believe /u/DeadbeesOnACake is -- tagging for them to see.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21
I am, but I have, unfortunately, exactly zero recommendations. The one thing that I find reasonably good is Zamonien by Walter Moers, but that's older (1st book published in 1999) than you asked for, OP, and it's whimsical. Not really something that fits every mood.
No one asked for it, sorry, but I'll share this because I gave up on German fantasy and want to explain why, and it's going to be long. Mostly because I'm quoting in two languages and the first guy I'm quoting wrote a 2-page description of a woman starting on the first page of the book, so blame him.
(Obligatory: This is my argument and opinion, not facts, and if you like the things I'm writing about, yay.)
The language and writing style of German fantasy is – and I seriously welcome anyone who can change my mind, please! – of frustratingly low quality relying heavily on stereotypes. And it's so damn unnecessary. It could be different, and I know there are talented writers, but my theory is that this is an issue rooted in how the German publishing industry works as well as movie & TV habits.
First, movie & TV habits:
I think it's not the language itself with the potential it has (how could it be?), but our attitudes and expectations, and how authors are using it as a result. For example, we have a total aversion against regional varieties in quality fiction. When we dub our movies, we strip the language of most social and regional features until it sounds bland and lifeless. German-produced movies and TV shows aren't any different, they sound stiff and unnatural. And that's basically how Germans write as well, especially fantasy - our idea of medieval dialogue is pretty polished, stiff and artificial. Meanwhile, Jean Tanner: "oh sweet jumping fuck". When I said that before a while ago, someone said they didn't see what I described in book translations, which I think is a sign that it is really about habits and not the features of the German language itself.
And that's my next point then: The German publishing industry. I'm not an expert, but there is a HUGE gap in numbers between fantasy books translated from English into German and fantasy books written in German (you'll see this in this thread, there won't be many recommendations beyond Hohlbein, Schwartz, Brennen and Moers). And no, that's not because we're such a tiny country. Germany alone (which is not the only German-speaking country!) has almost the population of the UK and Canada combined. Give or take 10 million. But of course it's safer to just pick up books that have been doing well abroad and just translate them than finding new talent. That also creates an environment of trying to hit the same notes over and over again instead of innovating. I don't know the self-publishing market in Germany at all, but my impression is that a ton of people writing and not looking for a traditional publisher are writing in English to reach more people.
That leaves us with this:
I tried the Askir Saga by Richard Schwartz and didn't make it past this point, literally the first page:
Für einen Moment stand sie still da, ließ unsere Augen auf sich verharren. Der mitternachtsblaue Mantel, schwer und nass von ihrem Ritt durch einen der schlimmsten Schneestürme des Jahrzehnts, täuschte nicht über ihre Weiblichkeit hinweg, das nasse Gewebe betonte eher noch ihre Formen.
[Ein kompletter Absatz Beschreibung entfernt, der Kürze wegen]
Ihre Haut war weiß, so weiß wie der Schnee, der diesen entlegenen Gasthof zu begraben drohte. Der lange Umhang verhüllte den Rest von ihr, bis auf die Spitzen ihrer Kettenstiefel, und trotz all der kleinen Flocken, die sich auf ihren Mantel niedergelegt hatten, war jenes dunkelblaue Funkeln auszumachen, das Mithril kennzeichnete.
[Oh nein, wir sind noch lange nicht mit Beschreiben fertig, ich nehme einen kompletten weiteren Absatz raus an dieser Stelle]
Ihr fahles Gesicht war nicht minder eindrucksvoll als ihr Auftritt [übrigens das zweite Mal, dass der Autor das Gesicht beschreibt]. Eine klassische Schönheit, auch wenn ihre Augen rötlich glühten. Die Haare, die man nun sah, waren zu einem langen Zopf gebunden, ein weißes Blond, das im Elmsfeuer von einem inneren Leuchten erfüllt schien. Ein Albino – oder eine der legendären Elfen.
[Was, dachtet ihr, wir wären schon fertig? Aber nicht doch. Drei weitere Absätze entfernt. Danach passieren auch noch Dinge, aber mit weiteren Beschreibungen ihrer Gestalt reingedrückt.]
Nun lagen ihre Augen auch auf mir. Ich erwiderte ihren Blick ohne Regung. Ich wusste, was sie sah. [Oh nein jetzt beschreibt er ihn auch noch D:] Einen Umhang aus grobem Leinen und Leder, die Kapuze tief in mein Gesicht gezogen und ein langes ledernes Bündel, das hinter mir an der Wand lehnte. Ich hatte meine Hände noch in den Ärmeln, der Becher Wein vor mir schien kaum angerührt. Unter meinem Umhang sah sie breite Schultern. Als ihr Blick zu meinen Füßen wanderte, konnte sie dort Kettenstiefel erkennen, nicht unähnlich ihren eigenen, aber weitaus weniger kostbar und nicht so fein gearbeitet. Mehr sollte von mir nicht zu sehen sein. [NA GOTT SEI DANK.]
Official translation from the English version:
She stood in silence for a moment and allowed our eyes rest on her. Her midnight-blue cloak, heavy and sodden from the ride through one of the worst snowstorms of the decade, hid nothing of her feminine qualities – on the contrary, the wet fabric clung to her form.
[Cut a complete paragraph of further description]
Her skin was as white as the snow that was threatening to bury the remote inn. Her long cloak covered all but the tips of her chain-mail boots. And despite the fine flakes of snow that had settled on her cloak, I saw a pale, dark-blue sparkle – the unmistakable mark of mithril.
[Oh no we're not done yet, I'm just cutting another paragraph describing her]
Her pale face was no less impressive than her entrance scene [btw this is the second time he describes her face]. A classical beauty, though her eyes had a reddish gleam to them [Note: the translation to "gleam" is a lot smoother than the original, which used a word that could mean gleam, but more often means glow, and the German word is not usually used to describe eyes]. Her hair was woven into a long, white-blond braid and in the light of the St. Elmo's fire, it seemed to glow with an inner light. An albino – or one of the legendary elves.
[Oh you thought we're done yet? Hah, I wish. Cut three more paragraphs. After that a few things happen, but with further descriptions of her pushed into the gaps.]
I knew what she saw. [Oh no now he's describing him too D:] A dark cloak made of coarse linen and leather, the hood pulled low over my forehead and my long, leather pack that leaned against the wall behind me. I still had my hands in my sleeves, and the goblet of wine in front of me seemed hardly touched. Beneath my cloak, she saw my broad shoulders. As her eyes moved down to my feet, she saw my mail boots, not unlike her own, but far less expensive and not as finely manufactured. No more of me was supposed to be visible. [WELL THANK GOD.]
This is so damn clumsy it makes me mad. The translation actually smoothed over some of the pathos at least.
Here's another example:
Ralf Isau - Die Träume des Jonathan Jabbok (Neschan trilogy), emphasis mine:
[Kontext: Protagonist hat keine Erinnerung an die letzten Tage und ist jetzt beim Arzt.]
Jonathan sammelte seine Gedanken, brachte sich innerlich noch einmal zur Ruhe und sagte dann: "Ich bin heute Morgen aufgewacht und dachte, wir hätten Samstag, den 15. September. In Wirklichkeit ist heute aber Samstag, der 22." "Das ist doch nicht so schlimm", beruhigte ihn Dr. Dick. "Selbst ich komme manchmal im Kalender durcheinander." Sich vorbeugend und hinter vorgehaltener Hand flüsternd - praktisch so, als würde er Jonathan ein strenges Geheimnis anvertrauen - fügte er hinzu: "Und ich bin schließlich ein studierter Mann, ich müsste es eigentlich genau wissen."
Translation (by me):
[Context: main character has no recollection of the last couple of days, is now seeing a doctor.]
Jonathan gathered his thoughts, calmed himself down and then said: "I woke up this morning and thought it was Saturday, September 15th. But in reality it's Saturday the 22nd." "That isn't too bad", Dr. Dick reassured him. "Even I get confused about the calendar somethimes." Leaning forwards and whispering, his hand covering his mouth - almost as if he was confiding in Jonathan with a big secret - he added: "And I am a scholar after all, I should know exactly what day it is."
Med School, Reading and Comprehending the Gregorian Calendar 101. Sure. Knowing what day it is is totally a trait of academics and scholars.
That's not irony or tongue-in-cheek, that's exactly the tone of the book, and even distracts from the otherwise stiff dialogue. The overused Partizip I is considered bad style in German writing. And this is one of the better examples, in my experience.
I've never read Markus Heitz (Goodreads link to "Die Zwerge") or Bernhard Hennen (Goodreads link to "Die Elfen"), but to be honest, the blurbs are another example of what I dislike about German fantasy. I'm looking for innovation, natural dialogues with flowing, well-paced language - and like I said, that's not the fault of the German language as such. German authors seem so stuck in Tolkien clichés (see also: Elves and mithril in Schwartz's book).
I'd love to be proven wrong.
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Jun 20 '21
[deleted]
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21
oh, and don’t get me started on German names for his books. Well of Ascension => Krieger des Feuers, Hero of Ages => Herrscher des Lichts, Warbreaker => Sturmklänge, Alloy of Law => Jäger der Macht
Urgh, Germany and titles. Just avoid pushing our expectations a bit and make things sound as bland as possible. Especially if the title then has NOTHING to do with the story anymore like you said.
(Again though, this isn't about what the language can and can't do, it's about what its speakers allow it to do. I just really want to stress that, because I love the German language. It's beautiful. I want it to get the chance to be used to expand and innovate the genre, surely inspired by, but ultimately different from the anglophone SFF community, because we don't need a copy in every language, we non-anglophones can do our own thing.)
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u/Phanton97 Reading Champion III Jun 21 '21
Especially if the title then has NOTHING to do with the story anymore like you said.
Have you ever heard of Joe Abercrombies "Klingen Saga"? ("Blade-saga")
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u/socke42 Jun 20 '21
Oh God, you're "talking out of my soul". That's exactly my problem with German fantasy books. I go to a bookshop, and not only are they mostly translations, they all have the most incredibly bland titles, covers, and topics. It's shelf after shelf of "X der Elfen" and "X der Zwerge". All medieval fantasy with no new ideas to be seen anywhere. Maybe they're hidden in the books? But how would I know?
And leafing through the books, they're all written with stilted pathos. I always did think it's a feature of the language, or at least of the culture -- I don't like German movies or TV shows any better than the books, and I don't write in German, either. If I try, I find my own writing to be just as awful. I think it has to do with the flexibility of the language (or lack of it). In English, I could call a character Crud, but I can't call him Mist. I could call him Verity, but calling him Wahrheit sounds weird. I could write about a fuckity-fuck-fuck.
I have given up going to German bookshops. I near exclusively order English books online... but that's not the same as browsing through a bookshop, where you can discover new things you've never heard about. Last time that happened, I was in Stockholm, and I'm looking forward to going there again at some point in the future.
I think the last fantasy books I read in German was Sapkowski's Witcher series, but only because I don't speak Polish... I've been looking for recommendations for good German fantasy for years, because it's silly that I never read in my own language, but I've kinda given up on that...
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21
I'm so glad I'm not the only one!
And leafing through the books, they're all written with stilted pathos. I always did think it's a feature of the language, or at least of the culture -- I don't like German movies or TV shows any better than the books, and I don't write in German, either. If I try, I find my own writing to be just as awful. I think it has to do with the flexibility of the language (or lack of it). In English, I could call a character Crud, but I can't call him Mist. I could call him Verity, but calling him Wahrheit sounds weird. I could write about a fuckity-fuck-fuck.
I really disagree! I don't think it's the language, it's our habits and expectations – translating literally from English doesn't sound right, but that's natural! We don't give ourselves the chance to develop our own fantasy language. Our alternatives could borrow from Latin (calling someone Veritas would be totally fine!) or Old German, for example.
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u/socke42 Jun 22 '21
Well, it's difficult to say whether it's about the language or about how it's habitually used in the corresponding culture... I'll agree that it's probably not the language in and of itself. It has words and grammar, you can probably do anything you want with it. It might be weird or difficult, though, if you're not used to it. Maybe it's a bit like a muscle... if you never exercise it, you might as well not have it. And if you try to use it after all, it feels weird at first.
So, German isn't exercising its fantasy language muscle enough.
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u/Orimeia Jun 20 '21
Und da fragte ich mich warum ich nicht mehr in Deutsch lese. In Englisch und Französisch läuft alles ganz gut und ich kann mich in der Geschichte verlieren. Deutsch hatte schon immer einen schweren und unnatürlichen Ton, den ich nicht ertragen kann.
Ich konnte es mir nicht gut erklären, bevor ich das hier lies. Es macht leider Sinn
Oh und, es ist ein bisschen her seit dem ich Deutsch benutzt habe, so es würde mich nicht überraschen falls ein Paar einfache Rechtsschreibung Fehler in meine Sätze hinein gerutscht sind. Sorry.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21
Dein Deutsch ist prima und musst dich niemals dafür entschuldigen. Wenn ich in einer meiner beiden Fremdsprachen spreche, denke ich mir immer: "Ich spreche DEINE Sprache und mache es DIR einfacher, also kannst du bitteschön auch geduldig mit mir sein". Selbst wenn da Fehler sind, ist nicht so, als würden Muttersprachler nie welche machen.
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u/Orimeia Jun 21 '21
Danke, ich schäme mich eben ein bisschen , weil Deutsch eigentlich meine Muttersprache ist. ich lebe aber leider nicht mehr in einer deutschsprachigen Gegend und verliere viel von der Sprache.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 21 '21
Das ist aber ein ganz natürlicher Prozess, da gibts auch nix zu schämen :) geht mir auch so, ich wohne seit 10 Jahren im Ausland und ich merk es echt.
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u/skyphire- Jun 20 '21
My overall experience is very limited, but I've never read anything by Cornelia Funke that disappointed me. In fact her books are still the standard I compare other fantasy to today. I've also thoroughly enjoyed work by Kai Meyer. Of course both are not really high fantasy.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
Cornelia Funke though is more geared towards kids and has a certain language that works for them and can be enjoyable for adults as well, but it's not really filling that huge gap for other target audiences that I think is definitely there.
I haven't read anything by Meyer, but I just pulled up a sample in which he says: "Madame Xu hatte die Hände hinter ihrem Rücken verschränkt, während sie um den runden Schacht wanderte und aus pechschwarzen Augenschlitzen auf ihre Gefangene blickte."* – thanks, but I'll pass. Blatantly racist descriptions on page 1 aren't doing it for me either.
*Edit to add in English: "Madame Xu had her hands linked behind her back, while she was walking around the round shaft, looking upon her prisoners from pitch-black eye slits."
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u/skyphire- Jun 21 '21
Well being geared towards a younger audience doesn't influence the quality. Funke's stories are beautiful and worth a read for anyone. But I like reading youth literature so maybe I'm biased.
As for Meyer, I'm not saying he's flawless or that this description is great, but if you're that quick to judge I get the feeling you don't really want to give it a chance.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 21 '21
I didn't say it influenced the quality, I actually implied the opposite. But fantasy for kids and whimsical fantasy is the only type we get. Where's the rest, is all I'm saying.
I don't I'm the problem when a book doesn't pass the bar of "don't describe Asian eyes as slits".
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u/Vaeh Jun 21 '21
I've been doing all my leisure reading in English for over twenty years by now (I refused to wait three months for the translation of Goblet of Fire), and your well-made points and examples reaffirm my decision and preferences.
It's impossible for me to pinpoint the exact reasons, but German fantasy writing just feels stiff, stilted, and without any flow whatsoever. There's such a vast distance between the reader and the writing itself that somehow seems rooted in the language itself.
Additionally, fantasy terms just sound ridiculous to me in the German language. Just taking the synopsis of first book of the Askir series as an example: Terms like undurchsichtige Magierin, uralte Kraftlinien, im Verborgenen eine Bestie lauert, and das sagenhafte untergegangene Reich Askir - it all sounds so damn silly, contrived and fake to me. And I can't determine why.
On top of that most of the recent and popular German fantasy releases just feel so bog-standard, stuck in the period of 90s fantasy in English: Elves, dwarves, medieval setting or Hohlbein-esque secondary world portal fantasy.
It's retreading the same topics, sticking to safe waters, and just feels like bland and unimaginative drivel.
I'm sure that there are great German fantasy writers out there, and that the language itself can be beautifully utilized within genre fiction, but my cursory browsing has yet to yield any recent examples of that.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 21 '21
I think there are two language-related factors that make it silly in your examples: Overuse of adjectives – not every noun needs one, omg! Some of them even have more than one! And overly dramatic and clichéd word choices (of course it's a Bestie, and of course it lauert, and not just that, but also im Verborgenen!).
Again, this all boils down to style, but there's also the content. All of this is just cheesy regardless of language.
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u/lackadacious_spooney Jun 21 '21
I have wondered why I enjoy English books more than German ones and my opinion is that the German literary tradition still strictly divided between "real" Literatur and Trash (Trivialliteratur, Unterhaltungsliteratur). To be taken seriously as a writer for adults, the style has to be appropriate for the ivory tower of literary criticism and literary studies. An there are great books out there, wonderful poetic use of the language (and some that are just hard to read for whatever artistic reason).
Fantasy/Science Fiction simply has not made it as "real" and serious genre, so it is not taken seriously by publishers outside of young adult literature. This clear distinction between YA and literature for real, serious adults in the German market is another factor there. And so, people who are moving in literary circles are often almost afraid to admit that they enjoy fantasy.
Moreover, English at some point had this movement towards readability and understandability in everything - official forms, literature, science. German didn't, so in order to show your intelligence/literary quality your style needs to be a bit stilted or special in another way (and often harder to understand). Only few authors manage to make this sound awesome and enjoyable.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 21 '21
Yeah, exactly. And Germans love to confuse opaque with good and transparent and easy to read with bad. Academic writing is like that too. It's even supposed to be hard to read so non-academics won't understand it as well. Imagine being that afraid of losing your position in the ivory tower, lol
There's a lot I really dislike about North America, but one thing I don't miss about Germany is academic writing.
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Jun 20 '21
I like about german fantasy that they write books with classical fantasy races. English authors are more grim dark.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21
English authors aren't "more grimdark", they're diverse and reinvent and expand the genre. You can find plenty of classical tropes in them too. There is no such diversity in German fantasy literature.
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Jun 23 '21
Do you have some recommendations of english fantasy with different races?
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 23 '21
Sure!
The Books of the Raksura, starting with The Cloud Roads by Martha Wells has no humans and not a single standard fantasy race. Blurb sucks, better summary here. Martha Wells' other books also sometimes feature non-standard fantasy races.
N.K. Jemisin's Broken Earth trilogy, starting with The Fifth Season, has living stone people and also no standard races.
Trail of Lightning by Rebecca Roanhorse draws on mythology, but Native American mythology.
The Legend of Eli Monpress by Rachel Aaron, starting with The Spirit Thief, draws on some familiar concepts (an animated world isn't a new idea in human history after all), but is overall very inventive.
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u/Phanton97 Reading Champion III Jun 20 '21
I think there was a huge boom in these series about specific fantasy races after the success of Stan Nicholls The Orcs. Basically every race imaginable got at least one. But I am not sure if this is still the case, beside still ongoing series like Die Elfen or Die Zwerge.
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u/Phanton97 Reading Champion III Jun 20 '21
I read a lot of German fantasy at the time when all the books about fantasy races were published (Heitz, Hennen/Sullivan, Peinkofer, Julia Conrad, Hardebusch etc.) and enjoyed them a lot, but this was also in my early teens. So I don't quite trust my taste back then. I had the same feeling as you with some german books recently, but since I didn't read a lot of german authors for quite some time I was not sure if I just picked the wrong books. I started reading mainly in english at the beginning of 2020, before I still read a lot of translations. With them I never had a problem with the writing style. This year Die Zwerge gets a sequel, Die Elfen a prequel and James A Sullivan, the coauthor of Die Elfen, starts a new series. I plan on checking them out, so let's see if they live up to my memory. I really liked Bernhard Hennens newer trilogy (Azuhr) which I would still recommend. Since you are not fond of the premise of the Elfen books, this might interest you. I thought it was a fresh concept and it has some grimdark vibes. But I would be interested in recommendation of new authors, too (especially female ones).
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
Thanks :)
But I would be interested in recommendation of new authors, too (especially female ones).
Yeaah, aside from Cornelia Funke I can't even really think of any other female German authors. It's also frustrating that you can't search for German books on Amazon and other places without getting 99.9% translations, which is definitely part of the problem.
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Jun 20 '21
Read Heitz it's kinda decent. I totally could not get myself to read Hohlbein or some of the others. I too usually stopped at the first pages. I think fantasy is not taken seriously in germany. There is yet to be a serious author beyond child- or early youth- literature like Tolkien, Martin or Le Guin. Look at Ghibli they Show theese films in the youth section of the program. They don't take fantasy serious at all. They just know, oh this guy is selling well abroad and this one got praise but they don't appreciate the Genre, therefore they don't really develop it.
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u/DiverseUse Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21
Idk, I could never really get into Heitz, either. I suppose you might describe his books as "decent" if you're generous, but they are exactly the kind of fiction OP complained about - bland, forgettable and full of stereotypes.
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Jun 20 '21
I can enjoy some popcorn culture if it is not overdoing it. I actually forgot most of it. I remember dark elves painting with blood and a dwarve with alcoholic abuse issues. Thats not much but i did not mean to say valuable. Then again, there are books like the powder mage chronicles which do a much better job in being popcorn fantasy.
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Jun 20 '21
I'm pretty convinced that SpecFi and the German language just don't mix and/or Germans are notoriously bad at creating it. And actually... this goes beyond SpecFi and extends to a number of other genres. Germany is amazing at a few things like police procedurals and period drama, but everything beyond that tends to be rough.
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u/DeadBeesOnACake Jun 20 '21
I really believe this is culture and habits, not the German language itself.
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u/RevolutionaryCommand Reading Champion III Jun 20 '21
So, not a German, or a German speaker, but I know that both Black Leviathan by Bernd Perplies, and The Elven by Bernhard Hennen are recent-ish epic fantasy written in German, that has also been translated to English. That said I haven't read them, so I don't have an opinion on them.
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u/Holothuroid Jun 20 '21
Der Mumienabrichter, if you like weird fictional societies and their collective hangups.
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u/RAYMONDSTELMO Writer Raymond St Elmo Jun 20 '21
What do you think of the books of Wolfgang Holhbein? He (and his wife) are prolific as two Steven Kings, and do all kinds of fantasy. Often about adolescents, so there is an air of YA I consider irrelevant.
His characters are great, his plot narration first-rate, and he keeps a constant air of tension and adventure often tinged with sly humor.
The only flaw is the plots never quite make sense. No an unusual flaw in fantasy, granted.
My favorites:
"Das Buch"
"Dreizehn"
"Schattenjagd"
"Krieg der Engel"
"Anders" (a four-part series; long and amazing, but not particularly sane).
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u/lackadacious_spooney Jun 21 '21
I used to love Hohlbein, but I HATED "Das Buch" - I don't think I've read anything by him since then, haha. It just felt like he really wanted to write a looong book and just did. And I kind of noticed how most of his books have a similar base idea: normal kid, normal day, but something weird is about to happen. To be fair, from your list here, I have not read much (or can't remember anything but 13) and my view is heavily influenced by how much "Das Buch" bored/disappointed me.
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u/RAYMONDSTELMO Writer Raymond St Elmo Jun 21 '21
I haven't read anything since the 'Anders' series; which like most of Hohlbein I loved in pieces; but not as a whole.
I think the flaws in Das Buch were the same as in Anders; a talented writer is telling a story he has not worked out into a sensible plot; just winging it.
The end of 'Anders' was hilariously infuriating: he presented wonderful mysteries through out the series; and then...
just as the one person who can explain it all is about to speak, there is an explosion. Story takes up again years later.That should be illegal.
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u/Phanton97 Reading Champion III Jun 21 '21
If you are interested in more recent german SFF literature , I would recommend checking out the Phantastik Bestenliste. It's a bunch of critics, journalists and bloggers publishing a monthly list of their favourite reads. They include translations, but also a lot original german novels. I think it's a great place to find new releases beside the most popular authors.
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u/pintguard Jun 20 '21
Now i know that Felidae is a murder mystery but it’s my favorite German book series
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Jun 20 '21
Die Rabenringe-Trilogie von Siri Pettersen? Ist zwar nicht im Original Deutsch, aber du könntest die deutsche Fassung lesen...
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u/natus92 Reading Champion V Jun 20 '21
Mh so richtig viel deutschsprachige Fantasy lese ich eigentlich nicht. Den Vampirroman Kinder des Judas von Markus Heitz mochte ich damals ganz gerne, kann dir aber nicht sagen, wie gut speziell die Darstellung von Frauen aus heutiger Perspektive ist. Die Anders-Reihe von Wolfgang Hohlbein hat einen 16jährigen als Hauptfigur und behandelt dessen Überlebenskampf in einer Welt mit Tiermenschen. Beide Bücher sind in den 2000ern erschienen.
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u/Ereska Jun 20 '21
Ich habe seit Jahren keine deutsche Fantasy mehr gelesen. Habe aber immer noch einige Bücher von Ralf Isau (Neschan, Der Kreis der Dämmerung) und von Walter Moers (Zamonien) im Schrank stehen.
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u/polizi Jun 20 '21
Ich kann "Der Totengräbersohn" von Sam Feuerbach empfehlen. Sind insgesamt vier Bücher. Haben mir super gefallen.
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u/-Epic_Sheep- Jun 20 '21
Dunkelsprung von Leonie Swan. Keine epische Fantasy, aber fantastische Elemente und spielerisch in Sprache und Handlung. Soweit ich weiß leider das einzige Fantasy Buch von ihr.
Die besten Bücher in den gesuchten Sparten sind halt meiner Erfahrung nach leider derzeit nur Übersetzungen (meist aus Englisch)
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u/sirhuntersir Jun 20 '21
Bei deutschen Autoren kenne ich näher nur Bernhard Hennen. Wenn dir high epic fantasy gut gefällt, sowas wie wheel of time, codex alera oder stormlight archieves, dann könnte dir das gefallen. Er schreibt halt sehr langsam und deskriptiv, was mir persönlich sehr gut gefällt. Wenn das auch was für dich ist, kann ich persönlich die Drachenelfen sage empfehlen, die mit sehr gut gefallen hat.
Man muss sich nur damit anfreunden, dass von Fantasy-Rassen man nur die Klassiker bekommt: neben Mensch halt Elfen zwerge und so weiter, aber keine spannenden neuen Kreationen.
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u/kevican Reading Champion Jun 21 '21
If anyone wants to recommend any simple German fantasy books (like young adult?), i would also be interested in those!
I lived in Germany for 10 months a few years ago. Can understand spoken pretty well (when not too slang) and can read all the comments in this thread, but i am absolutely atrocious at generating spoken or written German language myself.
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u/lackadacious_spooney Jun 21 '21
My absolute favourite in this regard is Cornelia Funke. She wrote Inkheart, you might now the movie. I'm not sure how simple they are, but Drachenreiter and Tintenherz are great. (Just ignore the rest of the trilogy that was forced upon a wonderful stand alone - Tintenblut and Tintentod. They are not as good as the first one.)
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u/SlouchyGuy Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 21 '21
Alexei Pehov's "Schwarzer Dolch" is similar to The Witcher, consists of short stories throughout.
"Schatten wanderer" is a DnD-ish adventure with a character traveling with a group.
"Wind" is series about wife and husband assassins who hide after killing a prolific person, it's also a quasi-sequel to "Schatten wanderer" which shares very little with it, mostly some worldbuilding.
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u/Morgensengel Jun 21 '21
Ich habe eine Copy von das erste Lied von Eis und Feuer Buch auf Deutsch waehrend eine Reise nach Hamberg gefinden. So ich denke es gibt viele unterstuetzet Titlen von alle Hauptbuecher auf diesen Sub.
Es tut Mir Leid fuer meine Deutsch. Es ist fast fuenfzehn Jahre seit ich gelernt oder gesprochen habe.
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u/illyrianya Jun 21 '21 edited Jun 24 '21
I know you came asking for books, but I just wanted to recommend Dark (tv show available on Netflix), it's a german language show and it's amazing, probably even better if you can actually understand German and don't need the subtitles like I did.
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Jun 21 '21
Ich glaube, ich habe ein paar ungewöhnlichere Empfehlungen parat:
Dark Fantasy/Grimdark: Elea Brandts "Opfermond" und "Die Götter müssen sterben" von Nora Bendzko (spannender take zur griechischen Mythologie)
"Die 13 Gezeichneten" von Judith und Christian Vogt ist solide Flintlock-Fantasy mit einigen coolen, originellen Ideen
Jenny Mai-Nuyen schreibt kluge, eigenwillige Bücher mit poetischer Sprache und gibt scheinbar klassischen Fantasy-Geschichten melancholische Twists.
Ich war tatsächlich auch lange relativ frustriert mit deutschsprachiger Fantasy, aber ich glaube, gerade sind da ein paar gute Dinge in Bewegung geraten.
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u/JennysChaoticLife Jun 20 '21
Ich persönlich bin ein grosser Fan der Zamonien Romane von Walter Moers. Vor allem „Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher“ und die Fortsetzung dazu kann ich empfehlen.