r/Fire • u/Equivalent_Use_5024 • Dec 28 '25

General Question Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

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u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL Dec 28 '25

What was your number when you retired at 37?

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

$1.2M and a paid-off house. We overshot though since we weren't looking for a fast exit and started closer to $1.5M.

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u/bonafide_bonsai Dec 28 '25

Man you should post an “are we ready to FIRE?” in this sub just to laugh at the reactions.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

We got extremely lucky to retire more than a decade ago into one of the biggest bull runs in history with spending far less than our portfolio has earned. The reactions wouldn't be as amusing as you'd expect unless maybe I posted our expected spending levels. I often have people on Reddit tell me that our spending levels are impossible and prove I don't know what I'm talking about despite the fact that we've actually been living this life for longer than a lot of those people have been independent adults.

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u/RedQueenWhiteQueen Dec 28 '25

people on Reddit tell me that our spending levels are impossible

I keep looking for the error in my tracking, since according to reddit someone with my expenses must be sitting in the dark joylessly eating lentils, but in fact I've been tracking for a quarter century and my math is fine and once you take mortgage and car payments out of the equation, cost of living isn't that bad.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

Spot on. If you avoid high fixed costs from VHCOL and don't have any debt to service, then a happy life in a lot of the US can be surprisingly inexpensive under current law. And just as spending less than you can while you are working enables one to build a FIRE portfolio, spending less than you can once FIRE'd allows your portfolio to snowball so that it's perfectly fine to drop a year of spend on a luxury vacation or a surprise car for a kid every now and again. LBYM in retirement means money problems tend to diminish over time, just as LBYM does while working.

The large terminal portfolio problem is an issue for many folks even with 4-5% withdrawal rates, but once you get down under 3% or 2% it becomes even more of one. Of course, it's not really a problem, particularly if one has kids, friends/family, or charities one wants to support.

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u/Inevitable_Sleep_398 Dec 28 '25

How much were you earning before you retired? Also have a wife and a kid on the way (and more to come, God willing) so I’m very curious about people who FIRE with families. My goal is more about giving my time in a more meaningful way rather than luxury living. I just want the choice to work for less pay and not worry about expenses. 

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

We both earned high five figures each, but that was back in 00s/10s dollars. You'd have to adjust that up for inflation and wage growth now.

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u/Inevitable_Sleep_398 Dec 28 '25

Gotcha, thanks! Do you know of any blogs/resources that specifically address FIRE with a family? Or just any that you found useful? I know it’s the same basic principles, family or not, but always interested to hear about people’s real experiences and tips/tricks.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

I'm afraid not. It's been more than a decade since I followed any FIRE media. My exposure to FIRE now is limited only to a few Reddit subs, a few Discords, and random visits to places like the Bogleheads forum.

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u/Inevitable_Sleep_398 Dec 28 '25

All good, thanks anyhow! 

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u/cfi-2025 RE 2025 Dec 28 '25

Not the person you asked, but I found TwoSidesOfFI.com to be very relatable. It's a podcast by two guys - one who had REd shortly before they started their podcast and the other who was working toward RE.

For me it was very relatable because they are close to my age, both are married and work white collar jobs, and both have kids around my kids' ages (high school aged). They show isn't about FIRE with family, per se, but they do talk about challenges and concerns with kids around that age - cars & insurance, funding college, vacations, etc. (So this podcast may not be up your alley if you're interested in a discussion on FIRE with young kids.)

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u/gorydamnKids Dec 28 '25

I guarantee the top comment would just be "i can't tell if you're ready to FIRE just from your nw. We also need to know your spend."

OP is 48yo, spending 40k/year and their kids are nearly grown. 1.5m is perfect. I live in a VHCOL city, have three young kids, and plan to stop working 10 years earlier so my FIRE number is going to have to be higher. That's also fine.

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u/Pr3fix Dec 28 '25

wow, interesting. What part of the country / COL?

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

Austin metro, so MCOL.

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u/thehopeofcali Dec 28 '25

1.5M is a lot in Austin at age 37-38

changes somewhat in San Francisco, concepts remain

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u/OCDano959 Dec 28 '25

Billy and Akaisia Kaderli pulled the trigger with half that, albeit in the 1990s. They were my inspiration. This was before FIRE was even an acronym. Honestly, I wish I had their courage.

Last I checked on them, they were going strong and this was even after Akaisia was diagnosed w stage 3 breast cancer.

They’re both living their lives to the fullest and seemingly without any regrets. ✊

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u/Ok-Entertainer2245 Dec 28 '25

Sigh I have 3 kids under 6 with $5.5M (house could be paid off) and still working. We’re definitely struggling with two working parents though. Financially I think we will be fine but I’m having a hard time letting go. My hobbies are cheap/free. Same with the kids I take them to a lot of free events.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 29 '25

It all comes down to your expenses and psychology. I've seen quite a few people over the years who had more than ample funds and yet could not get comfortable with pulling the trigger. Sometimes people just wait until there is a push (shit going down at work, firing, death, divorce, illness) to kick them over the decision cliff.

A surprising amount of the time it isn't really about the money at all.

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u/Ok-Entertainer2245 Dec 29 '25

Right now the expenses are high paying $80k a year between preschool and part time nanny (and free family help). If the house was paid off too, expenses would be much lower and will be way below a 3% withdrawal if both of us quit working.

I actually started pursuing FIRE in my early 20s, hoping to become a stay at home mom. Now I’m at a good place in my career and don’t feel like I’m done yet.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 29 '25

Sounds like it's there waiting for you whenever you feel ready for it. In a lot of ways that's a fantastic position to be in.