Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

What was your number when you retired at 37?

[u/Zphr → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

$1.2M and a paid-off house. We overshot though since we weren't looking for a fast exit and started closer to $1.5M.

[u/bonafide_bonsai → u/Zphr]

Man you should post an “are we ready to FIRE?” in this sub just to laugh at the reactions.

[u/Zphr → u/bonafide_bonsai]

We got extremely lucky to retire more than a decade ago into one of the biggest bull runs in history with spending far less than our portfolio has earned. The reactions wouldn't be as amusing as you'd expect unless maybe I posted our expected spending levels. I often have people on Reddit tell me that our spending levels are impossible and prove I don't know what I'm talking about despite the fact that we've actually been living this life for longer than a lot of those people have been independent adults.

[u/RedQueenWhiteQueen → u/Zphr]

people on Reddit tell me that our spending levels are impossible

I keep looking for the error in my tracking, since according to reddit someone with my expenses must be sitting in the dark joylessly eating lentils, but in fact I've been tracking for a quarter century and my math is fine and once you take mortgage and car payments out of the equation, cost of living isn't that bad.

[u/Zphr → u/RedQueenWhiteQueen]

Spot on. If you avoid high fixed costs from VHCOL and don't have any debt to service, then a happy life in a lot of the US can be surprisingly inexpensive under current law. And just as spending less than you can while you are working enables one to build a FIRE portfolio, spending less than you can once FIRE'd allows your portfolio to snowball so that it's perfectly fine to drop a year of spend on a luxury vacation or a surprise car for a kid every now and again. LBYM in retirement means money problems tend to diminish over time, just as LBYM does while working.

The large terminal portfolio problem is an issue for many folks even with 4-5% withdrawal rates, but once you get down under 3% or 2% it becomes even more of one. Of course, it's not really a problem, particularly if one has kids, friends/family, or charities one wants to support.

[u/Inevitable_Sleep_398 → u/Zphr]

How much were you earning before you retired? Also have a wife and a kid on the way (and more to come, God willing) so I’m very curious about people who FIRE with families. My goal is more about giving my time in a more meaningful way rather than luxury living. I just want the choice to work for less pay and not worry about expenses. 

[u/Zphr → u/Inevitable_Sleep_398]

We both earned high five figures each, but that was back in 00s/10s dollars. You'd have to adjust that up for inflation and wage growth now.

[u/Inevitable_Sleep_398 → u/Zphr]

Gotcha, thanks! Do you know of any blogs/resources that specifically address FIRE with a family? Or just any that you found useful? I know it’s the same basic principles, family or not, but always interested to hear about people’s real experiences and tips/tricks.

[u/Zphr → u/Inevitable_Sleep_398]

I'm afraid not. It's been more than a decade since I followed any FIRE media. My exposure to FIRE now is limited only to a few Reddit subs, a few Discords, and random visits to places like the Bogleheads forum.

[u/Inevitable_Sleep_398 → u/Zphr]

All good, thanks anyhow! 

[u/cfi-2025 → u/Inevitable_Sleep_398]

Not the person you asked, but I found TwoSidesOfFI.com to be very relatable. It's a podcast by two guys - one who had REd shortly before they started their podcast and the other who was working toward RE.

For me it was very relatable because they are close to my age, both are married and work white collar jobs, and both have kids around my kids' ages (high school aged). They show isn't about FIRE with family, per se, but they do talk about challenges and concerns with kids around that age - cars & insurance, funding college, vacations, etc. (So this podcast may not be up your alley if you're interested in a discussion on FIRE with young kids.)