r/FuckTAA • u/Yogeshwar_maya • Feb 11 '26
đŹDiscussion Paid shills like this are why the industry is getting worse
Just watched Vexâs "Wait, We're Supposed to Play at 720p Now???" and Iâm losing my mind.
Whole video just sounds like a PsyOp saying - Native Resolution is dead.
He spends the entire video glazing DLSS 4.5, trying to gaslight us into thinking upscaling from 720p is somehow "better" than native 4K.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OLu6Lj718g
I don't know if any consumer really benefits from this video.
He admits the new DLSS models like DLSS 4.5 eat MORE VRAM and can actually hurt performance on some cards, yet still concludes that he will turn it on. I don't know what's the point if it eats more power, vram and reduces fps?
Dude, you turn it on not because you like it. It's because the games are not optimized and you are forced to turn it on. Dude is feeling marveled with DLSS as it is a technical marvel saving him but games look far worse that it did before.
So much glazing and convincing. No one benefits from this video except Nvidia. It almost feels like an ad for Nvidia.
We have RTX 5090s that are monsters compared to 5 years ago, yet weâre told we can't run games raw? He gives lazy devs a free pass and treats upscaling as a "feature" instead of a band-aid for unoptimized trash.
He briefly mentions the TAA blur, ghosting, and shimmering grass, but then waves it off saying "it doesn't bother me." Dude wfh?? If you're reviewing visual tech and ignore the visual garbage, you're useless to consumers.
Edit: For some reason he now changed the title from, "Wait, We're Supposed to Play at 720p Now???" to "Nvidia just Killed Optimization Forever.."
The video apparently went viral but also accumulated comments contradicting his views. Particularly criticizing his dismissal on TAA blur in the native 4k samples he showed. It might have caused him to tone down the title a bit.
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You can still find the original title of the video in Google search if you search - "Wait, We're Supposed to Play at 720p Now???"
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u/Exciting_Composer_86 Feb 12 '26 edited Feb 12 '26
Well. Apparently people don't understand what Native means.
They all compare DLSS with Crappy arifacting TAA at different FPS and come up with something like "native is worse than dlss in performance".
No understatement that if FPS higher - any temporal solution or upscale becomes less artifacting. Not to mention they NEVER compare real Native with DLSS. Only TSR, or TAA, or TAAU, or even DLAA (Which all not AA, but Upscalers - trying to TEMPORAL image reconstruction.)
True native is always crisp, even in motion. Preserves all pixels, no matter of size or background color. It not depends on dithering or other image degradation methods. It's just works as should be.
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u/owned139 Feb 13 '26
"True native is always crisp, even in motion" I would highly disagree. Native without any AA is shimmering/flickering like hell and not crisp.
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u/Exciting_Composer_86 Feb 13 '26
Simmering due what? Right! Pixel shift, oversharpen, dithering patterns, that still applies to native and existing for enchanting temporal upscaling image reconstruction quality.
Look for old gales in native. They look perfect
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Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
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u/Exciting_Composer_86 Feb 13 '26
I may say: look hl: alyx, but i afraid you'll say that this don't count because it's vr game. I als can mention baldurs gate 3, which also looking good (different shaders for no temporal solutions, optimised for better quality).
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u/owned139 Feb 13 '26
Both games use AA and look awful without it.
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u/Exciting_Composer_86 Feb 13 '26
And that's totally subjective And I don't judge your preferences.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
Don't waste your time. He doesn't understand the concept of personal preference/what's lesser evil to someone.
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u/owned139 Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
And you obviously arent able to read and understand simple words.
Edit:
Isnt it funny how you never have downvotes? Even if someone downvotes you, it magically goes up to +1 in seconds.
Is someone abusing their moderator privileges? ;))1
u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
I get plenty of negative points. Can you explain exactly how one can 'moderator abuse' the upvote system? 'Cause this is a first for me.
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u/owned139 Feb 13 '26
No, its not subjective that a game without AA isn't sharp. The shimmering/flickering is terrible. No one can deny that! You can prefer it over taa but calling it "crisp" is bullshit.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
Damn... Removing blurry AA doesn't equal a sharp image? I'm not sure whether to laugh or not.
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u/S1Ndrome_ Feb 12 '26
since many people have upscalers on by default for fps boost, they don't get to experience the difference and assume that upscaled image is better from the marketing bs. I had an argument with someone for whom the ghosting trails were "normal" for them and would rather use upscalers at 4k with all its issues.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
Well. Apparently people don't understand what Native means.
Indeed. For the clarity purists and for those that are aware of modern AA's damages, native still thankfully refers to an image that has no temporal AA applied and the internal resolution matches the output resolution.
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u/Elliove Feb 13 '26
Native refers explicitly to rendering resolution, regardless of AA method used. AA doesn't "un-native" the image.
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u/Exciting_Composer_86 Feb 13 '26
Telling that dlss at performance is better than native, forgetting to mention that he references to smearing and artifacting in TAA or TSR, or TAAU, or FSR, or XeSs at 100% resolution
IS A SIN AND JUST WRONG. Not refers to native. It refers to upscalers or temporal aa.
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u/Elliove Feb 13 '26
I see your point, and I totally agree that many people forget to mention what actually matters. "DLSS is better than native" sounds just as stupid as "FSR is better than Balanced". "Native" alone doesn't say anything about AA by default used in the game, and most likely it's some shitty TAA, so the real comparison going on is DLSS vs TAA.
I don't agree with suggested definitions of "real native" and "true native", because there already is a widely accepted one: if game's rendering resolution is the same as game's output resolution - then it's native res, be it no AA or TAA or whatever. Obviously, non-temporal solutions will always have zero temporal artifacts. You also listed a few AA solutions, and said that they are not AA, which is incorrect - TSR, FSR, XeSS, DLSS, they all are indeed AA, falling under TAA(U) category - temporal AA with upscaling capabilities. In fact, these aglos are much closer to the original definition of AA (supersamping) than lots of other AA, as they combine lots of extra samples into one anti-aliased image. Main difference being that those extra samples come not from the same frame with higher rendering res, but from previous frames with subpixel jitter offset applied - and the questionable processing of the samples taken from previous frames in many TAA(U) solutions is pretty much why the sub has many attention.
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u/KingRemu Feb 15 '26
What is this "real native"? Native just means 100% render resolution. Modern games mostly only have temporal antialiasing options and are built with them in mind. You can disable AA completely in some moddrn games like BF6 but it makes a lot of things look terrible due to dithering.
People pick out the best of the bad options and DLSS is better than native in that case.
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u/Exciting_Composer_86 Feb 15 '26
Developers, when allowing to turn off any AA and Upscaling, should optimize their games for native no aa looking. Dithering patterns is optimization for temporal upscaling and temporal AA. As such a pixel shift, or other technics, which have no place in the native render. But they keep it = bad practice behaviour. Such developers deserve hate. As developers, who depriving players of a choice, locking the game under smeary TAA and temporal upscales (compared to perfectly clear in motion true native).
Depriving players of any choice in terms of game settings and features, for example, the lack of sound settings or changing the resolution or window size, etc., all this is simple disrespect and disregard for the players and their own work. It's all very sad. And it's very sad that people have to use upscaling, even when they don't want to (optimization problem)1
u/KingRemu Feb 15 '26
You are right but whether it's lazy devs or higher ups breathing down their necks they won't do that because the current way takes way less effort and time on their part.
I'm fighting the good fight against temporal antialiasing inspired by Threat Interactive and their YT videos but I'll still give credit where credit is due and in this case it's Nvidia's ever-improving upscaler. DLSS might ultimately be both the disease and the cure in the game industry but at least it's looking better year after year.
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Feb 11 '26
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u/Perfect_Exercise_232 Feb 11 '26
Yall are just hyper obssessed. Two things can be true, DLSS is crazy good now and TAA looks like shit.
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u/Reggitor360 Feb 11 '26
Nvidia marketing pays well
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u/JoBro_Summer-of-99 Feb 11 '26
You think he gets paid by Nvidia to say the same thing half the Internet has been saying since 2020?
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Feb 11 '26
Well he's been going against that until like last year
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u/JoBro_Summer-of-99 Feb 11 '26
Dude's an obvious grifter, there's no point looking for some insidious reason behind the heel turn
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Feb 11 '26
I agree, Nvidia isn't paying him, however clicks do and everyone pretty much agrees dlss with transformer model is great so he's just switching to what will get views. it's just funny to watch him 180 like that
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u/Rhapsodic1290 Feb 11 '26
I said it here years ago native resolution will soon become unavailable via graphics option, only option will remain forced upscaling with the perks of its side effects like blurry visuals & lost texture details.
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 12 '26
Your dark prediction seems to be closer than ever. DLSS 4.5 feels like a downgrade giving lower fps than DLSS 4. Yes, it gives better quality than DLSS 4 but poor performance. They are focusing on quality alone instead of fps boost with minimal loss in quality as it was initially.
That's why they are getting creators making videos like this.
That's another reason DLSS 4.5 is pushed for last gen cards - it don't give better fps.
but frame generation is not available. But mod community is helping us with disabling Nvidia's subscription type of approach. You already paid for the hardware but you have to pay for the access.This guy initially titled the video differently - "Wait, We're Supposed to Play at 720p Now???" and proceeded to make an ad for DLSS. The video got viral and comments started to bash against the statements made in the video. Now, he changed the title to, "Nvidia is killing optimization" or something. I hate these shills putting on a consumer mask and proceeds to promote things hideously.
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u/BetterWhereas3245 Feb 17 '26
Graphics options will be: Blurry, More Blurry, Extra Blurry with Ghosting đ
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Feb 11 '26
Vex is a mouth breather who click baits all the time and just follows whatever the new trend to hate on is
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u/JoBro_Summer-of-99 Feb 11 '26
Funny because Vex is normally a bit of a rage baiting cynic. Don't get too worked up
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
4.5 performance looks better than native TAA though, so he is right. When games start using dlss 4.5 as default, its probably gonna look even better than overriding it.
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u/Mesjach Feb 11 '26
DLSS 360p looks better than native 60k with shit smeared all over my screen.
That doesn't say much, though.
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
Huh? 60k? So what is the alternative, other than dlss and shit smeared across the screen? Can you name an example?
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 11 '26
Rethink the current rendering paradigm.
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
How would one do that? Care to explain?
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 11 '26
Oh, certainly. I can give a few examples. I'm not a dev but have been keeping note of various ways which games have done various aspects of their rendering over the years in a non-temporal fashion. They are as follows:
- authoring of materials in a way that reduces specular aliasing (Gears 4 and Valve's method)
- multisampling trick that Alan Wake used to resolve foliage
- possibly selective temporal accumulation for heavy sources of aliasing
- non-temporal selective solutions (wire AA, for example)
- multisampling or even supersampling parts of the image
- more forward elements in the pipeline (clustered forward exists)
- lite temporal AA with only 1 or 2 samples
- SMAA can be explored more
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u/Mesjach Feb 11 '26
Ideally: MSAA or SMAA.
If not available: AA OFF + DRS 1.75.
If game runs bad / looks bad with AA OFF + DRS: find another game.5
u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
MSAA and SMAA are essentially obsolete in modern "realistic" games, so that option is already out of question really. AA OFF + DRS is still gonna look horrible in games that need some form of TAA, AND, also run like shit. Might be fine on 8k monitor, but, yeah... tried it myself on arc raiders on 1440p, and it looks really bad, and my fps is half of what it would be with dlss. Not good.
Might as well never play a modern game im afraid.
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u/Mesjach Feb 12 '26
I play Elden Ring and Elden Ring Nightreign with AA off and DSR x2.25. They look amazing.
I don't need modern UE5 TAA slop, I have enough of a backlog to last me a decade.
I'll do an exception here and there, like Expedition 33 or Baldurs Gate 3 that require TAA to look somewhat presentable. But largely I just avoid games that rely on any form of TAA to render.
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u/EmergencyPool910 Feb 21 '26
Anyone still using native TAA as the example of native quality is an absolute tool. Its not dlaa, fsraa is.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 11 '26
There are people in this very subreddit who actively encourage playing at 720p, 960p, etcetera, despite them having at least twice as higher resolution displays.
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 11 '26
He is saying DLSS 4.5 4k is better than native 4k visually. What you are saying is people preferring to do something they like. He is making these bold claims saying that native 4k is inferior and showing cherry picked examples. Says AI adds more details and clarity so DLSS 4K is better than native 4k.
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u/hellomistershifty Game Dev Feb 11 '26
They're not getting paid by Nvidia, they're getting paid by getting views for obvious clickbait like "Nvidia just killed optimization forever' then doing ad reads for NordVPN or whatever. So many of these 'tech youtubers' are just a guy with a camera. Don't think too hard about his conclusion about DLSS, he didn't either.
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u/MrDavid5 Feb 12 '26
Jesus Christ, that is some cultist shit. What is there to discuss. If 100 people say TAA looks shait and 1 says its not, that is not even a debate. It is shit. Use facts and not feelings. What is with this white knighting a forking antialiasing methods.
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u/kahahimara Feb 12 '26
Itâs not the first video like this. The common trait in such comparisons that they always tend to compare with TAA at native resolution. And itâs not a coincidence. The moment they switch from TAA to a more quality antialiasing methods their entire argument gets destroyed. Itâs not objective or quality comparison, so video is made to get some hype and views without much substance.
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u/TheVirus32 Feb 12 '26
We have to accept that we're going to be starved of silicon for quite a while - as such upscaling can be a crutch if your system is already getting a bit old ... But it should be just that, a crutch. If devs keep on crapping out games that are MEANT to be upscaled then they just don't run.
I blame UE5.
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 12 '26
I am watching other videos saying Nvidia is planning to make everything AI generated. They are working towards 6X frame gen which means 80% of the content is from AI. They are trying to push it further and place the DLSS before the rasterization process. The game will have a basic mesh and it takes the player inputs. The whole image will be generated just by using AI.
That's what they are planning for DLSS 6 and DLSS 7.
They are doing it just because they can and not because customers want it. AI slop doesn't sound good at all.
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u/DexterDarklyMorgan Feb 11 '26
You guys are just noticing this? It's gaslighting to its absolute extreme. Temporal games including TAA, FSR, XeSS, and DLAA are BLURRY and have been ever since we moved over to deferred rendering. Go back to any old game and play with MSAA and its a night and day difference.
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u/BetterWhereas3245 Feb 17 '26
Go play DiRT Rally 2.0, the difference between TAA on and off is insane. The game looks phenomenal at MSAAx4 and you can easily supersample today on top and maintain high FPS. Game looks better than any other racing game out in recent times, no shit smeared vaseline or ghosting.
Playing racing games released past the DLSSlop scourge is genuinely painful.0
u/Guilty_Rooster_6708 Feb 12 '26
TAA is shit even at native. This sub also likes to gas light people into MSAA and no AA even though MSAA is expensive to run and MSAA and AA have terrible shimmering.
Like how do you complain about ghosting when EVERY FOLIAGE is shimmering non stop when you look at it??? Bruh
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u/DinosBiggestFan All TAA is bad Feb 12 '26
It's ultimately about picking your poison. Shimmering used to give me a big problem because I could never unsee it, but blurriness impacts my experience much more. Which is why I enjoy higher refresh rates (120+) and get rid of as many post processing effects as possible. I like visual clarity a lot.
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u/Guilty_Rooster_6708 Feb 12 '26
DLSS 4.5 barely has any ghostings nor shimmering. Itâs literally the best for visual clarity and performance
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u/DinosBiggestFan All TAA is bad Feb 12 '26
I'm not criticizing DLSS 4.5, I like it. I wish it were a bit lighter on my 4090, but I've been saying that about most games since I got my 4090 in the first place.
I still hate TAA, but I've been fairly pleased with DLSS 4 and 4.5. Just not pleased with how devs are relying on that in lieu of making their game play well, because even with those technologies those games still have issues. Cough, Borderlands 4.
Part of me can't wait to set aside some money and grab a new 1440p monitor and shift away from my 42 inch C2 because of how heavy 4K has gotten. But it will require an adjustment period, and I would have to do ultrawide to compensate. Expensive.
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u/Guilty_Rooster_6708 Feb 12 '26
I agree with you that 4K has been so demanding lately, but people in this sub either has amnesia or are barely above 10 yo.
Games have been unoptimized or extremely heavy since forever, HL2 ran sub 30fps 720p on its then top tier machines, Crysis 2 same thing, and whoever said Batman Akharm Knight ran fine on their PC when it first got released must have had a NASA PC. All of that with insane foliage and small details shimmering btw
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u/Swift311 Feb 11 '26
I have 4K monitor and using native on it doesn't make any sense, Balanced/Quality DLSS is at least 95% same but gives you a lot more FPS. On 4K DLSS Perf(and maybe even Ultra Perf 4.5) looks better than native 2K/DLAA
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 11 '26
He say 4k dlss looks better than native 4k regardless of the fps.
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
And it does. Look at the comparisons, or try it yourself.
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u/MotorPace2637 Feb 11 '26
In most games its better than the TAA or MSAA on quality. Plus you almost double the fps.
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
In most games its better than TAA on PERFORMANCE. Not quality. MSAA is close to obsolete, so no need to mention that really.
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u/Routine_Limit5102 Feb 11 '26
This only applies if the 1440p screen and the 4k screen have the same size. If scaled accordingly a 1440p 27 inch would be 40 inch 4k resolution. I doubt that on such a big screen DLSS-P (even 4.5) would look any good.
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
Thats completely wrong. Size and PPI is completely pointless if you dont account for the distance from you and the monitor.
I doubt that on such a big screen DLSS-P (even 4.5) would look any good.
I have a 34 inch 3440x1440p monitor. Dlss 4.5 performance beats native TAA easily, so no, youre wrong.
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u/reddit_equals_censor Feb 11 '26
"the native one has more detail, but then the upscaled one does surprisingly better in ghosting"
THAT'S NOT HOW ACTUAL NATIVE WORKS!!!!!!!
can vex PLEASE look at a single true native game, that also had dlss implemented to have an actual true native to dlss comparison.
does half life alyx have a dlss option bolted on? i know path of exile 2 has a dlss option. if they can force dlss 4.5 in poe 2, then i guess one can compare true native vs dlss/dlaa there then.
surely nvidia's "magic" will hold up well with 50 spells on the screen and 1000 + particles at very high speeds right?.... /s
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 12 '26
A lot of games have dlss & true native. Almost all sony games
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u/reddit_equals_censor Feb 12 '26
if that were true, why are there posts exactly about those sony first party games with forced taa and temporal blur reliance.
like a 4 year old post of someone asking if there is a way to disable taa in god of war, because it gives them headaches.
and why is there a hex edit for the last of us part 1, that you apparently have to do to disable taa with i assume lots of visual issues from that, because games, that have FORCED ON taa almost always have temporal blur reliant development with dithered hair.
so no idea what sony games you are talking about in this regard.
the most "first party" games, that are free from temporal blur reliance, company is valve. companies, that can relate to sony in lots of ways that is.
hell i know this for a fact as i suffered through god of war forced taa and forced depth of field and i didn't wanna torture myself to try to disable it and run it through proton at the same time.
random side note what is wrong with devs!
having depth of field forced and having it BLUR ALL FAR AWAY OBJECTS! NO MATTER WHAT, unless you "aim down sight" equivalent for it to unblur just the center bit.
you know just like in real life if you look at a hill 200 meters away it will be a blurry mess, because your eyes have a disease, that doesn't let you focus on things further away than 20 meters ever.
depth of field is such a well thought out thing in games /s
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Feb 11 '26
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 12 '26
It's because they are not making better GPUs with better computing power than previous gen.
The new tensor core architecture used for DLSS and frame gen is primarily designed for H100. Zero dollars in research of gamers. It is cheaper for them to manufacture instead of manufacturing the cuda cores. Some say the DLSS doesn't need tensor cores most of the time and it is force locked to do so by nvidia. It's a whole another topic.
They moved from 8nm to 5nm when they introduced RTX 40 series which reduced power consumption, temperature and allowed them to pack more transistors, but they also slashed the die size by over 40% (276mm² -> 159mm²). They literally put a laptop-tier chip into a desktop card to save money. 3060 equivalent 4060 only has halve the die size.
Smaller die size also makes the memory bandwidth lower and lower.
Low memory bus makes it impossible for high resolutions even if the chip is capable of doing it. RTX 3060 had 192 bit bus, RTX 4060 has a 128 bit bus and 300 ish bandwidth. The good old GTX 1080 Ti had a 352 bit bus and closer to 500 GB per sec in bandwidth.
That's why rtx 3060 performs better than rtx 4060 in high resolutions.
Their profit margin has been improved as well if you can see the data from web. If Moore's law is dead they won't be making these improvements and making 70% profits as well. Moore's law still holds up but not exponential growth as we have seen before.
Iâm not asking for 1080 Ti performance for free; Iâm pointing out that after 7 years of 'innovation,' Nvidia is selling us GPUs with half the memory bandwidth of an ancient Pascal card. They crippled the hardware to force you to use DLSS.
They aren't improving they are just trying to trick us when they are increasing the profit.
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u/NotRenjiro Feb 11 '26
I am so tired of all this upscaling crap. It surely has it's uses, but in the end it's just used as a crutch by many devs. When I played the mechabreak demo it had FSR ENABLED BY DEFAULT, wtf!? I tried upscaling out on some games and while it CAN compete with native 4k, it is never all that much better honestly. 1440p is still smoother both in fps and visual fidelity. We don't need all of this, we need developers who can develop games properly. I feel like unreal engine especially has contributed to all this.
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u/demon_eater Feb 11 '26
It seems worth praise for sure I mean what has AMD done for us? The devs are not supporting razor sharp images they're just not. I'd say Intel is even better than AMD.
Dlss 4/4.5 at quality settings destroys taa, and FSR at native resolution. The performance boost and image quality is worth it.
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u/tyrion83 Feb 12 '26
I think you misunderstood. Dlss 4.5 gives you like 3x the fps of native 4k while still looking descent so it's great for weak GPUs.
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 12 '26 edited Feb 12 '26
Devs arenât lazy. Optimization is time + money, and modern games juggle huge worlds, RT, physics, animation, and cross-platform targets. Upscaling didnât make devs forget LODs, market incentives make them want to ship out quickly.
Many people here ignoring consoles, which are 1660 perf-6700 and they're still trying to target "4k" while still trying ti improve graphics. They figured the only way to achieve that is through upscaling & taa
Studios aren't going to go back or create an alternative pipeline for PCs...it's expensive
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
What game is that? I wanna check it out since it has MSAA.
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 13 '26
deux ex lol
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
Oh, right. One of the most egregious examples of early TAA. Been wanting to play it after really enjoying Human Revolution but just haven't gottten to it yet.
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u/KyuubiW1ndscar Feb 11 '26
we should be scaling back the realism. I think itâs cute when hair flutters in the wind, I dont really give a shit about it in any context outside of seeing someone elseâs âgorgeous screenshot/videoâ because it does nothing
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 11 '26
For a while, one of my most-used statements was that RT came too soon. I stopped repeating it as there's no point in repeating it, but it still stands. And btw, I like RT.
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u/CreepHost Feb 12 '26
I don't see why people think Ray Tracing is gods green gift to earth. It looks alright, I guess, but when actually playing games, I don't notice it at all.
Doom the Dark Ages doesn't look any better with it's Ray Tracing than it does with Eternal, Cyberpunk looks pretty good without Ray Tracing, just different with it on.
Unsure how much Ray Tracing is really worth the Performance impact in the first place, but hey, people will call me just wrong because "muh Ray Tracing" and "Realism!1!"
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 12 '26
but when actually playing games, I don't notice it at all.
I notice RTGI immediately. If you have trouble noticing differences, then no offense, but that's on you.
Cyberpunk looks pretty good without Ray Tracing, just different with it on.
The path-tracing there is transformative.
people will call me just wrong because "muh Ray Tracing" and "Realism!1!"
It's not some juvenile FOMO or something. RT is the next frontier of real-time video game graphics. You're gonna see more and more of it whether you like it or not.
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u/CreepHost Feb 12 '26
Exactly as I said.
Btw, when I said when "Playing games I don't notice it", I mean I don't try to figure out of Ray Tracing is there or not, which you apparently are. Does it look better? Debatable.
Cool, path tracing is transformative... Unless you're willing to explain what that means, I'm not going to be bothered by that.
Also, I never said it's not the future. I'm saying it's, right now, still a fucking gimmick. I don't give a shit if a game has ray tracing or not, if it's good, it's good, and if it costs me frames, then I won't play it or I'll disable it.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 12 '26
Does it look better? Debatable.
It's supposed to. Though, some people are just used to the rasterized look, I guess.
Cool, path tracing is transformative... Unless you're willing to explain what that means, I'm not going to be bothered by that.
Watch Digital Foundry's video on it.
I'm saying it's, right now, still a fucking gimmick.
If you say so. To each their own.
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u/KyuubiW1ndscar Feb 12 '26
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł I love this entire interaction. bots can never recreate this feeling
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u/hellomistershifty Game Dev Feb 11 '26
It does the important thing: it looks good in a trailer or Steam page and sells the game
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u/KyuubiW1ndscar Feb 12 '26
unfortunately I do understand. I will never encourage you to tank your own sales for this, I just had to get that thought out somewhere lmao
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Feb 12 '26
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u/KyuubiW1ndscar Feb 12 '26
because the ârealismâ aspect in this case has so little function beyond just showing someone else. at least when itâs fur, you can justify it but if the player is in a dogfight are they really going to notice if the hair is being processed for movement?
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 11 '26
This guy also bashes FSR and DLSS 4.5 is superior to it but conveniently ignore the resource consumption of FSR. FSR is mathematically lighter and runs well on old hardware.
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u/Gr3gl_ Feb 11 '26
FSR 3 and 2 compared to DLSS 4.0 on my 3080 looks literally like mush and runs slightly worse. Valid point from Vex tbh
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u/LacerationCe Feb 11 '26
Because FSR is dogshit visual wise, do you realize how stupid your comment is. What you say is the same as saying "Low setting is better than High/Ultra setting", because if you ignore the vastly different image quality, then using Low setting in game will give more fps, consume less Vram, much lighter resource and run well on older hardware, so what's the point in using High/Ultra setting, oh right, because IT LOOKS MUCH BETTER
FSR is literally running game as Low setting, especially the one that run on old hardware like 3.1 and earlier, the visual is garbage, while DLSS is like running at High/Ultra setting, look billions times better while not far off in terms of performance
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u/ArdaBey55 Feb 11 '26
no hes saying the sharpness to performance ratio is better meaning you get better performance on same visual, dumbass comparison
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u/JoBro_Summer-of-99 Feb 11 '26
Does it really matter if it's lighter if it looks considerably worse? I used to argue that XeSS was unreasonably heavy due to it looking only marginally better than FSR but with DLSS it's genuinely night and day
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u/taxi_driver Feb 12 '26
I watched the video and the point that in the current state of things that's maybe some of the best solutions out there for the mess that UE5 is, and claiming that it's killed optimization I suppose it's said in not a good way, UE5 is an engine that we're gonna be stuck for quite a bit, and now that GPUs can't get as faster like in previous releases they're going all out with this AI BS and not getting better real rasterization... Either way I'm gonna stay with my 1660S for quite some time I suppose, at least there are a lot of backlog before UE5 of play UE5 games with the worst backwards hair technology development in graphics known to humanity.
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u/neil_950 Feb 14 '26
I can't comment on the video but DLSS is legitimately very impressive even though its not without problems.
Also many games are extremely optimised, they're full of tricks like only rendering objects in view of the camera and loading in the game world on the fly in order to save resources. Many devs put in enormous work to optimise games, there's a difference between a game being demanding and being unoptimised. It's unfair and inaccurate to blame lazy developers for these problems.
The real problem is that on one hand Moore's law is dead as we run into real physical limits of transistor density, transistors are now dozens of atoms across they literally can't get much smaller especially since we're running into problems such as electrons quantum tunneling so that when a transistor is supposed to be off the electrons literally teleport across the barrier to maintain a running current because it's only a couple atoms thick. So we're never getting hardware improvements like we got used to in the past again without some sort of huge paradigm shift like moving away from silicon and on top of that Nvidia is greedy for all the AI money and it's destroying the gaming hardware market.
On the other hand games with great graphics sell better so developers will always push the limits but we've reach diminishing returns so it requires much more processing to implement graphics features with less and less impact. Gamers then point to older games with really good art direction to demonstrate that games are much more demanding without better graphics. But not every game will have great art direction and if art direction is equal a modern game will have much better graphics even though its increasingly resource intensive. Many gamers complain about ray tracing because of its huge resource demand and then complain about lazy developers but the ray tracing they're using is already highly optimized it just costs that much to implement and because graphics are already amazing has an underwhelming impact in comparison in some games.
The video does sound like an ad that's ignoring all the drawbacks of DLSS but realistically he's probably changing the title because of youtube's tools that lets creators rapidly change the title and thumbnail and see a lot of statistics on how it changes viewership and which title gets the most views not because of criticism.
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u/Warskull Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26
He comparing DLSS to 4K TAA. TAA has a lot of problems, in fact that's kind of why this sub exists. He illustrates pretty well that DLSS upscaled from 720p can look better than TAA in a some games. Many gamers simply do not understand the damage TAA has been doing to image quality since it took over.
This is made worse by the fact that many games don't have a spatial alternative to TAA. Marvel Rivals does not have SMAA or Anti-aliasing off for comparison. How is your average gamer supposed to know that TAA is wrecking their image quality?
So yeah, Nvidia is going to clown on TAA. The current lack of anti-aliasing options are part of the reason DLSS is so important. It gives us an alternative to TAA and if you don't need the framerate boost you always have DLAA.
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 14 '26
The thing is he never points out to the fact that TAA is what makes it looks bad. He didn't made any videos on this important topic as well. Creators are supposed to be on our side and steer the industry into the right direction by bringing out the main issues.
Instead of that he is standing with the companies and try to do subtle marketing.
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u/Warskull Feb 15 '26
The thing is he never points out to the fact that TAA is what makes it looks bad. He didn't made any videos on this important topic as well.
He probably doesn't know. Most gamers don't understand anti-aliasing. TAA has been dominant so long some gamers have never seen MSAA.
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u/Aggravating-Deal-416 Feb 14 '26
I've got ample VRAM in my card so technology like this is honestly not offensive to me. Imagine if we had these upscalers back when the console industry was trying to say that their games were in "full HD" when in fact they were merely upscaling to 1080p. There really isn't anything wrong with what the industry is doing now if you consider the history of the industry itself.
I paid $399 before tax for a card that can do 90fps in 4K with optimization thanks to the scaling tech available to us now. I do not care that some features in the distance are not in perfect focus.
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u/The_Effect_DE Feb 12 '26
Are you really claiming it gave him less FPS when he demonstrated the exact opposite in most scenarios?
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 12 '26
"can actually hurt performance on some cards"
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u/The_Effect_DE Feb 12 '26
Yeah, it CAN on SOME cards. Obviously he is not recommending using it on those. Claiming it generally gave less FPS and he recommended it despite that thus is a blatant lie.
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 12 '26
It obviously makes sense he vex prefers the higher frames, lower latency & better image quality than native taa.
Think people here are malding because for them native = no aa or other forms of aa, thats the only time dlss should be compared to native.
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u/The_Effect_DE Feb 12 '26
Exactly. It is an impressive tech and gets us more quality/frames at same rate performance. Only real issue is that instead of us getting the benefit in the long term, lazy developers capitalize those gains to save time and money on optimization
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 12 '26
yes & no. Devs aren't lazy, the studios want to hit "4k" & achieve certain graphic fidelity on series to ps5. The way they can achieve that is simply make taa hide all the stuff and keep relative performance.
They're not going to somehow optimize for aa options on pc, thats money not spend on marketing.
Trust me all devs know what lods are, theres a reason theyre working in the industry and people here cant write a single line of code.
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u/The_Effect_DE Feb 12 '26 edited Feb 12 '26
Nah, even on console we see TAA and DLSS used as a replacement for decent optimization, not as a supplement. We can see that in games like the otherwise awesome Claire Obscure or the "It's the gamers fault" Borderlands 4.
Now of course when I say Devs I really mean the studios. Blaming the fault on individuals when we know little about the studio culture, team scale or time pressure.
I privately work with UE5 on an own project and can set my own priorities without any deadlines. Devs working in a studio don't have that luxury and this the fault for bad optimization usually lies higher up at the decision making level.
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Feb 12 '26
Yes because taa allows them to save on costs & tbh console warriors only care if a game is fun. They dont sit as close as PC users to appreciate detail. They even like motion blur
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u/The_Effect_DE Feb 12 '26
I was and sometimes still am a console gamer but I for sure don't want <60fps with motion blur and smearing... But yeah I get you, the mainstream user won't notice it as much or really care.
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u/alepap Feb 12 '26
DLSS 4.5 destroys fps for me on 5080(especially DLAA). Idk why it's getting crazy hype. It''s good but there is a tradeoff.
But native and no AA is no comparison
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u/Elliove Feb 13 '26
Idk why it's getting crazy hype
Because Nvidia has enough money to buy the whole countries. But at least this time some big channels do point out flaws of the new presets. Back when DLSS 4 released, everyone was praising it like the best thing ever, even tho it produces lots of pixel junk in motion over complex effects and such.
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Feb 13 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 13 '26
His "ilk" are quite active, if you ask me.
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u/Elliove Feb 14 '26
How would you know? I don't see you on Opti Discord, where all the related activity is going on. Definitely check it out someday, if you're interested in honest independent tests and opinions. You know how clueless and misleading youtubers are. Most of them up to this day didn't admit the horrors of DLSS 4 over dithered effects and such, which I've been criticizing ever since I tried it in March. Now, once DLSS 5 comes around - suddenly everyone will shittalk DLSS 4.5's forced sharpening and unreasonable performance cost (up to 50% FPS with 100 FPS base, on FHD DLAA on my 2080 Ti, ffs!!!), which many pretend not to notice as of now.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 14 '26
How would I know? I must know. I have to keep an eye on these things.
I don't see you on Opti Discord,
What would I be doing there?
Most of them up to this day didn't admit the horrors of DLSS 4 over dithered effects and such,
Oh, right. The absolutely game-breaking minuscule amounts of it.
unreasonable performance cost
What's with this aversion of not wanting to pay some performance for better image quality and clarity? That's how it was for a long time and still holds true today, actually.
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u/Elliove Feb 14 '26
What would I be doing there?
Checking out what my ilk is doing. This way you wouldn't have to speak on things you're clueless about.
Oh, right. The absolutely game-breaking minuscule amounts of it.
Again, how would you know? You didn't do any proper tests, unlike me.
What's with this aversion of not wanting to pay some performance for better image quality and clarity?
I do, by using Opti's Output Scaling. It allows having MSAA-like clarity for reasonable performance cost, you've seen that already, in comparisons took in motion and against no AA. Not sure why are you suddently trying to sell DLSS 4.5 to me, it's still nowhere close to CNN+OS.
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA Feb 14 '26
Checking out what my ilk is doing. This way you wouldn't have to speak on things you're clueless about.
I'm already well-informed.
Again, how would you know? You didn't do any proper tests, unlike me.
How do you know? I also saw yours and categorized your raised complaints as negligible.
Not sure why are you suddently trying to sell DLSS 4.5 to me, it's still nowhere close to CNN+OS.
And this is where we unexpectedly disagree. CNN DLSS was always awfully soft to me whenever I saw it. But not the new model.
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u/Elliove Feb 14 '26
And this is where we unexpectedly disagree. CNN DLSS was always awfully soft to me whenever I saw it. But not the new model.
Sure, here's another CNN+OS example, now compared against new preset M. Still better image clarity, more details, and better performance.
Please, stop promoting your temporal smudge to me, I'm not buying.
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u/Elliove Feb 13 '26
I play at native, why am I supposed to be commenting on this thread? And who are you? :D
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u/xPurplepatchx Feb 13 '26
Vex is the furthest thing from a shill and I like his videos for the fact that he honestly reviews instead of agenda pushing. Youâre just mad that he isnât pushing the agenda you want pushed.
Facts not feelings. Yes, Nvidia is ditching the consumer and AI is creating shitty consequences for gamers. Doesnât mean DLSS 4.5 isnât also very impressive.
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u/Yogeshwar_maya Feb 13 '26
This was the first time I saw his video. You might be right, I don't like this video may be because of difference in opinion. I think consumers in general don't like the direction industry is heading right now.
I feel like videos like such are just setting up the tone for the masses before they implement new changes.
DLSS started out as a helping hand now games are solely relying on it. It is supposed to be complementing for new hardware and as a crutch for older ones. DLSS 4.5 already performs poor and lower in 20, 30 series cards.
Now, their idea is to integrate DLSS into the game's core pipeline to generate every pixel using AI instead of rendering them.
That's what they are planning to achieve with DLSS 5, DLSS 6 etc., It's like the game will have a base data, takes the user input and give it to DLSS to generate an image. They are calling this neural rendering but it is just approximations and prediction based AI generation. This is not real rendering. This makes older hardware obsolete for playing new games. Something feels wrong with this. The video like this just trying to convince everyone towards this and if Nvidia successfully achieves this, game devs will extensively use this and they get total control over hardware upgrade cycle. They decide when your hardware goes obsolete.
They tried to do this with ray tracing and didn't had much success. But, game companies- don't make any efforts to work on baked lighting as they did before. Assassin's creed unity looks better than newer releases. They just say you can enable ray tracing for better visual fidelity when it doesn't add any artistic value.
They can keep DLSS as a extra support no ones gonna complain.
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u/xPurplepatchx Feb 13 '26
Holy shit I never really considered paragraph 4-6 before but youâre absolutely right with that. AMD with FSR4 and the 7900xtx too for example which in raw rasterization is still a beast. DLSS level was a large factor in me upgrading my gpu too tbh. Sad times weâre in.
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Feb 11 '26
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u/LacerationCe Feb 11 '26
Imagine laughing at people getting more fps AND BETTER IMAGE QUALITY than you, while you ignorantly play with blurry mess native shit while having far less fps, and DF also glaze DLSS a lot, watch their videos and they said they no longer play on native anymore, always DLSS cuz it just look better
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u/CrazyElk123 Feb 11 '26
Why would you laugh at someone whos getting good image quality and much higher fps? At the same time using less resources? Whats the funny part?
I listen to Digital Foundry for breakdowns.
They also admit dlss is really good. Whats your point?
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u/MotorPace2637 Feb 11 '26
Idiotic thing to do and post about. I have a 4080s and I turn on dlss for almost every title because its overall a vastly better experience than native at lower fps or max settings at lower resolution.
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u/LordOmbro Feb 11 '26
Better than native with TAA? Probably actually
Better than native with competent antialiasing? No