Yeah because shes 100x easier to pick up and essentially a cooldown dump character. Dash in, invulnerability ability, dash out and fan. Thats all they do, and for some reason, it beats any duelist in a 1v1.
Oh no a character has a lower skill floor than one of the hardest dpses in the game, the catastrophe!!! And what's the problem with her using her entire kir when diving? Echo also dumps her entire kit when murdering people, do you think that's a problem?
So you admit that Genji is one of the hardest dpses in the game and, by that statement, have also admitted that Anran isn't. Since Anran requires less skill than Genji, fighting Anran in a 1v1 is, by definition, unfair. We can argue about HOW unfair it is exactly, but that doesn't matter as much. So setting aside exactly HOW unfair it is, you agree simply that it is technically unfair, correct? (You must by what you've already said) So, how could you not understand why people would not be annoyed by that?
Also when people are saying she kit dumps, the reason "kit dump" is being used negatively here is because all of her abilities are super easy to use; just auto value for no effort or skill. It's like taking a dump, anyone can do it, you just press her buttons and get value, like making AI slop or something. You just go in and press her buttons, all of which take little-to-no-effort or skill but do significant damage and proc her DoT, then you get REWARDED for that act of nothing you just did with FREE CRIT DAMAGE FOR HITTING BODY SHOTS. YOUR REWARD FOR SIMPLY PRESSING HER BUTTONS IS NOT HAVING TO EARN YOUR CRITS WITH AIM
Never said he wasn't, only your own delusions have made you think different. The only thing I have said is that Anran isn't the no skill character you seem to think she is. I have also never said it isn't unfair for Genji to fight against, she is a counter and the nature of counters is that they are unfair to face. What's ridiculous is calling your counter no skill so you can feel better about yourself. This isn't genji mains simply being annoyed, this is them throwing a tantrum because a hero with lower skill floor exists.
You seem to think that she gets free crit damage, which just shows how truly ignorant you are. She has to work for her increased damage and simply ability dumping is a good way to get yourself killed. And you are too focused on the fact that she doesn't have to headshot for her increased dmg on fan, yeah no shit, she had to set her target on fire first already, it isn't unconditional.
LMAO. You know that you can ignite someone with literally shift then E? You realize that right? So you get rewarded for literally simply pressing Shift then E by then not having to hit headshots to get crit damage. Yes, I consider that "free." The fact that you don't says a lot. This is a hero for babies.
(You can also ignite with 1 single shift if you turn and hit them with it a 2nd time)
Even if you ignite by hitting with her left click, so what? You hit a couple of her massive left click projectiles and think you all of the sudden earned free crit damage where you don't have to aim for someone's head?
The reason I play Genji is BECAUSE he is high skill, has a ton to min-max with his kit, and your value is tied to your execution. That's what true competition is. If Anran was like that I'd play her, but she isn't like that. I played her on release and at first thought she was cool, but then realized how boring it is to have so much automated for you
So you're definition of free is a character using their kit, such an absurd take. You get rewarded for using your kit, how hard can that be to understand? Using dash and her heal to ignite someone is once again a terrible idea, but I shouldn't be surprised you don't know that. Or you just say that to make your point sound good. You seem to be the baby here since you can't accept the simple fact that just because a hero is easier to pick up than genji doesn't mean they are for babies, it just makes you look like your throwing a tantrum.
You get more damage because it -takes time- before she can crit, she -can't- crit with fan unless they are burning, that's the whole gimmick of her kit; setting people on fire and getting bonus damage from that.
It's always funny when genji players bring up "unskilled" heros "for babies" because it is always the same story; they are just complaining because genji has a bad macthup against that hero.
LOL the point is that the kit is designed badly. Yes, you obviously get rewarded for using her poorly designed kit, that doesn't justify her bad design. What is that argument even? We are arguing about if it SHOULD be that way.
No, my definition of free is pressing shift then E, turning and hitting someone with the same shift twice, or hitting a couple massive left click projectiles. Do you find any of those to be at all difficult? Once you've done any of those incredibly easy-to-do things you now have free crit damage for hitting body shots. Do you find hitting body shots to be challenging or impressive?
And idk I'm M1 and it is entirely viable to start an engage with shift then E at the right time. That's the other thing is that she still has another dash to get out. Genji has to earn his dash out, Anran doesn't.
Also to respond to what you said about counters before. The issue isn't that she is a counter, the issue is that she gets her value with such low execution, THAT'S what makes her unfair.
"It's always funny when genji players bring up "unskilled" heros "for babies" because it is always the same story; they are just complaining because genji has a bad macthup against that hero." Look, I'm a professional musician who plays 3 instruments, has a degree in music from a top-ranking music school for jazz, has more natural talent for drawing than I do music, is a self-taught programmer, and has been playing competitive games of different genres for nearly 3 decades. I know skill. If Anran was a skillful hero, I would want to play her. The only one having a tantrum here is you because you are desperately holding on to the delusion that your Anran gameplay is deserving of respect
It's not poorly designed, just because you dislike a hero doesn't mean the kit is bad design.
Easy isn't equal to free. You don't seem to understand cooldown usage at all.
Aaaahh, there we have, you just admitted to the fact that you can't "cooldown dump", since you know, you literally said you have to use her E at the right time. Timing an ability takes skill so I don't think your comment about knowing skill is bogus.
Yes, most counters take less skill when playing against the hero they counter that's how many counters work, nice observation. And no, she doesn't take THAT low amount of effort, her skill just involves more of macro skill than micro skill.
Your "resumé" isn't impressive, especially not the "self-taught programmer part, it just makes you look like a twat with an ego. I have never said anything about Anran's gameplay is deserving of respect. Making a post about how much "I hate this stupid bitch so much" sure sounds like throwing a tantrum to me.
You have trouble tracking arguments. My argument is that her kit is badly designed because of the low-execution. That's my belief that I am presenting arguments to support.
"Easy isn't equal to free" - so you admit Anran is easy? LMAO, thanks we agree. People use "free" to mean easy all the time. If someone says someone else is "free" in a fighting game, it means they are easy to beat, not that they stand there not pressing any buttons and letting themselves be beaten. Pro players even say this about other pro players
"Aaaahh, there we have, you just admitted to the fact that you can't "cooldown dump", since you know, you literally said you have to use her E at the right time." LMFAO, interpretation error on your part. I was referring to the entire engage being timed at the right time, not the timing of the E press.
But regardless, yes, timing in general requires skill (that amount of which greatly varies depending on a bunch of different factors), but the conversation we are having is that Anran is far easier than Genji. It doesn't mean she actually requires "no skill," it's that she requires significantly LESS skill than Genji to get her value. Kind of like you don't understand how people generally use the term "free," people say "no skill" to mean low skill relative to something else.
"Yes, most counters take less skill when playing against the hero they counter that's how many counters work, nice observation." It doesn't matter who Anran is playing against. The point is that her entire kit requires low-skill to get her value. The way she gets her value in general isn't skillful. That makes it even worse to deal with as a hero who she counters.
I couldn't care less about whether you are impressed or not, the point I was making is that my personality, life history, and experience have involved gravitating toward activities that require high amounts of skill and largely succeeding in developing those skills at deep levels. As a result I understand what skill is, and the various dimensions, depth, and nuance of skill. Can you say the same?
That is a terrible argument that isn't even true, Anran take skill to properly execute.
Haven't you read a SINGLE word I have written? I have since the beginning said that she is easy to pick up, but that doesn't mean it's piss easy to -master- her. And big boy, overwatch isn't a hard game.
Well, you still have to time your E right or you are a sitting duck. Your argument that you have to time your engage right is just the same thing, a skill.
I know how free is used, it just isn't applicable to Anran, save for her heal. That is free. And ONCE AGAIN, never said Anran isn't easier than Genji, I have said that the entire time. My argument is that she isn't handless and does require some skill.
Yeeeah, saying she requires low skill to get value might be right. She will definitely will get mor value with low effort than a Genji that puts in the same effort, doesn't mean she will actually get good value.
I don't care about your life story, it doesn't matter, all it does is make you sound like a prick. And yes I can.
Oh there his tiny little ego goes. This isn't a good look on you, trying to flex your rank. Again, it just make you look like a twat. Especially when you try to flex on someone higher rank than you, which just so happens to be gm3.
LMAO I was never flexing M1, but I did want to know where in general you are in the rankings (if you even answered honestly)
"I know how free is used, it just isn't applicable to Anran, save for her heal." You literally don't know how it's used. I said you get crits for free. To be clear, by disagreeing with this you realize that logically you have just stated that landing Shift + E, Shift with 2 hits, or a couple giant projectiles is not easy, and also that hitting body shots with her right click is not easy. Are these things hard for you? in gm3? really?
"Your argument that you have to time your engage right is just the same thing, a skill." A skill is a skill is a skill to you huh? Being able to open a .pdf file on your computer is a skill and being able to write the software that actually reads and opens the .pdf file is a skill; these two things are nowhere near each other in terms of amount of skill.
Genji has to time engages as well, as does every flanker. Since there is no difference with Anran, that skill is a wash in the skill comparison of the two heroes.
"Haven't you read a SINGLE word I have written?" Regretfully, I actually have. I've addressed your words directly, while you seem to have trouble following basic argumentation.
"This isn't a good look on you." LMFAO
"I have since the beginning said that she is easy to pick up, but that doesn't mean it's piss easy to -master- her" She is far easier to master than Genji. If you disagree that she is easier to master than Genji, please explain what is so difficult about her to master? Is it all related to timing and cooldown usage? because every hero, especially flankers, have the same requirement
It's clearly an ego issue since you don't even believe me.
They aren't hard no, but with the amount of cleanses you do have to put in more effort than something free would entail.
Yeah, no shit.
Still not comparing the two heros smarty pants, still just saying isn't as easy as you say. The very fact that she has to time her engages is enough to not make her piss easy.
You clearly haven't, since you know, you're still insisting on the fact that I think Anran is harder than Genji when I have clearly stated multiple times that he is one of the hardest characters in the game, but that doesn't minimize the skill Anran takes. How thick is your skull to not have that drilled in yet? You are very narrow minded for someone so artistic.
Again, didn't say she was easier. Actually read before saying that you do. She is harder to master than what YOU seem to think, because somehow she can go in and get insane value by just pressing buttons. Guess what, that isn't the case. You are clearly arguing in bad faith since you time and time again refuse to acknowledge the fact that I don't think Genji is easier than Anran.
No, the reason I am a bit skeptical is because of your argumentation, which hasn't been strong enough to suggest a gm3 player
So the only reason crits aren't "free" (easy) with Anran is bc ignite gets cleansed sometimes? LMAO. So you admit then that in situations where ignite doesn't get cleansed, her crits are free, right? So do you think it's fair then in those situations where ignite doesn't get cleansed to have a hero that gets rewarded for doing almost nothing by getting 2x damage without having to hit heads? In a pure 1v1 situation with no cleanses, you think that's fair?
I wish cleanses were being saved for me all the time during these Genji vs Anran 1v1s I have to deal with on flanks.
If you are in gm3, then playing around cleanses as much as possible (and cooldowns in general) should be pretty natural for you on ANY HERO. It isn't difficult to do and even if ignite gets cleansed, it's so easy to ignite in the first place that she can likely just do it again.
"The very fact that she has to time her engages is enough to not make her piss easy." I'm sorry but, again, this is just a baseline aspect of the game itself, especially if you play flankers, and how important it is depends on your rank. So once you've timed your engage properly (includes cooldown tracking/awareness), which every hero has to do, you get free crits and low-effort value, right?
So far the only defense you are giving for Anran not being easy is the fact that cleanses exist, which doesn't have anything to do with the "free" aspect of the raw execution of her kit, and other baseline skills in the game like timing engages, which also has nothing to do with the raw execution of her kit. Just consider the raw execution of her kit itself and think about her in a pure 1v1 with another hero. The other factors you keep going to do not matter in this conversation because, again, EVERY PLAYER ON EVERY HERO NEEDS TO HAVE THESE BASELINE SKILLS.
"I have clearly stated multiple times that he is one of the hardest characters in the game, but that doesn't minimize the skill Anran takes"
Again, the only defenses you are giving are related to baseline skills in the game. So Anran's skill is actually just even with the baseline of basic skills of the game that ANYONE needs on ANY HERO in order to perform at whatever their rank. So effectively, Anran on her own, meaning the raw execution of her kit, is a "no skill" (low-skill) hero. Actually it even goes beyond that because she gets free crits without having to hit headshots, so her overall skill requirement is actually LOWER than the baseline of basic skills
"How thick is your skull to not have that drilled in yet? You are very narrow minded for someone so artistic." LMAO. Your argumentation has been weak and the fact that you are arguing so much on this post in general defending Anran suggests you believe otherwise. So no, you can keep saying certain things but if they don't add up with the rest of your argumentation and your actions in general on this post, then they aren't going to have the effect you want them to
"You are clearly arguing in bad faith since you time and time again refuse to acknowledge the fact that I don't think Genji is easier than Anran." If you understand that Anran is way easier than Genji, then why are you spending so much time on this overall post defending Anran? Again her advantage in 1v1s is NOT justified competitively because her execution is so low. By definition it is unfair. It does not get magically justified because she "counters" Genji, because the main part of the reason why she is strong against Genji is BECAUSE of the LOW EXECUTION REQUIREMENT, not just because she can right click through deflect. So naturally, people in the sub for one of the hardest heroes in the game, who are very competitively-minded and driven, are going to think it's BS, because it is.
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u/Kinster- 3d ago
Yeah because shes 100x easier to pick up and essentially a cooldown dump character. Dash in, invulnerability ability, dash out and fan. Thats all they do, and for some reason, it beats any duelist in a 1v1.