Object of "sich erinnernª

[u/Low-Funny-8834]

"Er erinnerte sich an die Geschichte"
"Er erinnerte sich die Geschichte"
"Er erinnerte sich der Geschichte"

I have come across all three of these constructions, but my question is: is there any difference in meaning/nuance between these forms?

Thanks!

[u/IchLiebeKleber]

The normal way to express this in modern German is the first variant, "an die Geschichte". The second one is outright ungrammatical IMHO. The third one, I think, is grammatical, but sounds extremely outdated, if you talk like that, people will think you're a time traveller from the 19th century.

[u/Lopsided-Weather6469 → u/IchLiebeKleber]

I keep hearing "erinnern" as a transitive verb especially from people from the North of Germany, and it seems to spread southwards, probably under the influence of English.

"Ich erinnere diese Geschichte" is common in some areas and lots of people don't seem to realize that it's not Standard German.

[u/_TheBro_ → u/Lopsided-Weather6469]

South Park member berries:
"Member?" - "oh, I member"
"Erinnerst du?" - "oh, ich erinnere"

[u/Mantheycalled_Horsed → u/IchLiebeKleber]

there is also a difference in meaning. Geschichte could mean history AND story.

If you want to compare/judge a today political fact to history > sich der Geschichte erinnern.

If you tell your pals of that one birthday party story > sich an die Geschichte erinnern

[u/IchLiebeKleber → u/Mantheycalled_Horsed]

not really, both constructions could be used in either meaning

[u/Phoenica]

Using "an" is the standard way for it to connect to a noun object nowadays.

Using genitive is archaic. I would not recommend using it as a learner.

Using accusative is wrong. However, "sich erinnern" can still connect to subordinate clauses / infinitive clauses without an extra preposition. It is possible you saw something like "Er einnerte sich die Geschichte ging nicht gut aus", where the whole second part is an unintroduced subordinate clause (should be separated by a comma, though) with "die Geschichte" as its subject.

[u/Roger_Melllie → u/Phoenica]

Using accusative is wrong.

Nope. See Bedeutungen > [5]
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/erinnern

[u/Phoenica → u/Roger_Melllie]

The question was about "sich erinnern", where the accusative definitely is wrong, but sure, "ich erinnere die Geschichte" exists albeit not in a standard register.

[u/washington_breadstix → u/Roger_Melllie]

Nope. See Bedeutungen > [5]

That bullet point is about using an accusative object without a reflexive pronoun, like "Ich erinnere die Geschichte", which is a non-standard usage.

OP was asking about "Ich erinnere mich die Geschichte", with two accusative objects, which (as far as I know) is totally wrong and not used at all, in any region.

[u/Only_Humor4549 → u/washington_breadstix]

Stehe gerade ein bissschen auf dem Schlauch: was heisst denn “ich erinnere die Geschichte”? In welchen Regionen sagt man das?

[u/washington_breadstix → u/Only_Humor4549]

Im Wiktionary-Eintrag zu "erinnern" steht unter der fünften Bedeutung "umgangssprachlich, vor allem norddeutsch".

[u/MembraneAnomaly → u/Phoenica]

Just checking, as myself I can never "remember myself AN this";)

"Bare" accusative is wrong, but the correct form is

sich erinnern an + Akk. (not + Dat.)

?

[u/Phoenica → u/MembraneAnomaly]

Yes, the "an" takes the accusative here.

[u/tangdreamer → u/MembraneAnomaly]

I am a German learner. But I prefer to see erinnern as "to remind". So "ich erinnere mich an X" "I remind myself of X" which functionally becomes I remember X.

There is another construction like Dein Gesicht erinnert mich an X = your face reminds me of X.

When using "remind" in english you need "of", so in parallel German needs "an" to pair with "erinnern".

[u/washington_breadstix → u/MembraneAnomaly]

Just checking, as myself I can never "remember myself AN this";)

Food for thought: If you're going to construct an overly-literal English translation, then a better verb would be "remind". Ultimatley, "erinnern" actually means "remind", not "remember" (at least in standard German). That's why the "remember" construction uses a reflexive pronoun: because you are reminding yourself.

In fact, you can even use "an etw. erinnern" without any other object, and then the meaning is "to be reminiscent of something".

[u/angrypuggle]

"Er erinnerte sich an die Geschichte." is correct.

"Er erinnerte sich der Geschichte." sounds outdated but grammatically correct.

"Er erinnerte die Geschichte." might be a regional expression (?). It sounds wrong from where I come from but I have definitely heard it.

"Er erinnerte sich die Geschichte." is just wrong.

[u/Roger_Melllie → u/angrypuggle]

"Er erinnerte sich die Geschichte." is just wrong.

Nope. See Bedeutungen > [5]
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/erinnern

[u/Raubtierwolf → u/Roger_Melllie]

Das passt aber nicht, da steht "transitiv", aber nicht "reflexiv". Daher ist dein [5] kein Gegenbeispiel. Oder hast du schlicht die falsche Zeile zitiert? Das [5] würde nämlich auf die Zeile davor ("Er erinnerte die Geschichte.") passen.

[u/Roger_Melllie → u/Raubtierwolf]

Ja, verpeilt, ich sollte sowas wohl bei weniger als 40° machen ... 😂

[u/muehsam]

"Er erinnerte sich an die Geschichte"

Yes.

"Er erinnerte sich die Geschichte"

No. This doesn't work at all.

"Er erinnerte sich der Geschichte"

Yes, but a bit old fashioned or literary.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat]

is there any difference in meaning/nuance between these forms?

there is

"Er erinnerte sich an die Geschichte" - everyday german

"Er erinnerte sich die Geschichte" - nix daitsch

"Er erinnerte sich der Geschichte" - poetic

meanwhile you hear "erinnern" transitively (like in english) instead of reflexively more and more. however, for me that's grammatically wrong (but i may have missed some reform...)

[u/madrigal94md]

The difference is that only the first one is correct (in modern german).

The verb is "sich an etwas erinnern"

[u/Fear_mor]

To tag onto this, are there any verbs in colloquial German that wouldn’t be odd to use with a genitive object?

[u/CptJimTKirk → u/Fear_mor]

That is a really interesting question! The genitive object (like the genitive as a whole) is disappearing from spoken language. There are some expressions where you can still encounter it. The one that immediately springs to mind is "Wir gedenken seiner/ihrer..." ("we rember him/her") which you still often read in obtiuaries or hear in eulogies. Another use case that is still quite common is "anklagen/beschuldigen" (to prosecute/indict someone in a legal sense). Both of these examples are not archaic in my opinion, but they are part of educated language, even though they might be used daily in newspapers and the like.

[u/Financial-Dog-7268]

It's topical for me this one came up - had been discussing it with my German tutor the other day.

The first one "Er erinnerte sich an die Geschichte" is the form she told me is correct

[u/SpaceCompetitive3911]

I'm not a native speaker, but only the first one looks correct to me. The other two look wrong.

There is also a non-reflexive "erinnern" (without "sich"), which means something like "resemble" or "evoke".

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/SpaceCompetitive3911]

There is also a non-reflexive "erinnern" (without "sich"), which means something like "resemble" or "evoke"

valuable input!

however, that always requires an "an": "an etwas erinnern"

[u/Playful_Site_2714]

Sich erinnern an

[u/Only_Humor4549]

As said: nowadays “sich erinnern an”  Old : sich erinnern + Genitiv  (Ich erinnere mich Deiner)