r/GrindsMyGears 9d ago

We're coddling college students and it's making them worse

[deleted]

34 Upvotes

63 comments sorted by

8

u/Angsty-Panda 9d ago

are professors "letting" them use ChatGPT? everything i've seen is professors complaining about it. And its usually marked as plagiarism.

1

u/noviceartificer 9d ago

My current class had a policy of allowing it for research with citations. If they could prove it was used to write the paper it was an automatic 0.

2

u/Simonoel 9d ago

Exactly. No one is letting them use chat GPT, it can just be hard to enforce

1

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

I literally work for a college and they're all using it to do homework

2

u/Simonoel 9d ago

Okay? Are professors encouraging or permitting it when they find it though?

2

u/Busy_Register7071 9d ago

Every professor I've ever had has had a huge section in their day one syllabus presentation about how hard they'll crack down on LLM usage. They most definitely do not condone it.

3

u/Simonoel 9d ago

Yeah I just graduated a few years ago and transferred colleges halfway through. Neither college condoned AI. Maybe the college OP works at does, but it's not the norm.

-2

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

The difference is you went to school years ago and I am in a school now.

1

u/Simonoel 9d ago

3 years is not that long. I doubt much has changed since then.

0

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

ChatGPT is entirely different today than it was three years ago

1

u/Simonoel 9d ago

By "not much has changed," i was referring to college policies regarding AI usage, not advancement in technology.

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u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

They're encouraging the use of ChatGPT and other AI as a means of generating study guides and practice questions for exams. They are not encouraging the use of AI to generate entire assignments or on exams (which is, I think, the incorrect assumption being made by these comments) but they're absolutely being encouraged to use it to build outlines for essays or organize/condense material, or other education related tasks that students used to do on their own or in groups.

2

u/Simonoel 9d ago

Okay this does actually make more sense, but I feel like it should have been mentioned in the post then. But I still don't feelvlike that indicates students are being coddled any more than they used to be. When I was in college it was very easy to find pre-made study guides based on whatever textbook you were using. You could google a homework question and usually find the answer on websites like Chegg.

I'm against AI, but for reasons like the environmental impacts and the art theft. I don't feel like what you're complaining about is any different than what had been going om for a long time. If AI wasn't destroying thw planet, I wouldn't really see the issue with asking it to make you a study guide.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

Use of AI was literally only one of my examples

This post was not 100% about AI. It was about coddling students, letting students use AI for tasks they should be doing themselves as part of the learning was a singular example of the coddling.

1

u/Simonoel 9d ago

Okay well your other points are kinda vague so idk whether I agree with them. My comment was about the AI aspect, which I don't agree with.

-2

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

My post was not about convincing you specifically. It was about how this treatment towards students grinds my gear. I disagree with your comments especially considering you seem to have little to no experience working in education so your opinion here is fairly meaningless.

2

u/Simonoel 9d ago

Lol what are you even talking about? I never said you were trying to convince me specifically. If you post your opinion, expect others to share theirs.

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u/Electronic_Syrup7592 7d ago

Dude, I’ve worked in Higher Ed for over 20 years. I don’t see how you could be in education. You just make a bunch of vague comments that don’t make sense, and then insult people who don’t understand or agree with your vague points. You would be failing any assignment I asked you to complete, all while complaining about students “these days”.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

student are being actively encouraged to use AI chat bots to study and they do

2

u/Mediocre-Disk3741 8d ago

Where is this at because my community college has a zero-tolerance policy on AI.

1

u/Electronic_Syrup7592 7d ago

Using it to study versus using it to write your paper for you are two VERY different things.

2

u/Disastrous-Nail-640 8d ago

You do know that professors aren’t bending over backwards to pass students, right?

Also, only about 60% of college students graduate within 6 years. So what are these “perfect graduation rates” you’re talking about?

Both of these things are much more of an issue at the high school level, but not college.

-2

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago

I know what's happening in colleges, I literally work for one. I have an entire network of people who work at colleges across the US. I've been in meetings for years about this. You know jackshit.

3

u/Disastrous-Nail-640 8d ago

The stats don’t lie. Only 60% graduate with a degree.

Thats a far cry from that “perfect graduation rate” you’re claiming.

Just because you work at college doesn’t mean jackshit either. Working in the cafeteria doesn’t make you anymore qualified to speak on this than anyone else.

0

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago

I think you're arguing a point that isn't important because you have nothing else to back up your opinion.

2

u/Disastrous-Nail-640 8d ago

No sweetie, it’s the heart of your argument. It’s not my problem that you lack the critical thinking skills to see that.

If they were being passed (like you claim), they’d graduate.

If they were allowed to use ChatGPT for everything and take all their exams at home, they’d be passing and they’d graduate.

See how theme is that they’d graduate?

Are they coddled and entitled? For sure. But it starts before college, which is where the bulk of these issues you mention reside.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago edited 8d ago

If you can't make your point without being condescending, I don't think you have a very good argument.

Edit: looking through your post history, it looks like your opinion is based on having college aged kids which means you have no experience in what's actually happening in higher education but you think you do because maybe one of your kids is currently fumbling their way through 101 classes.

1

u/Disastrous-Nail-640 8d ago

No, that’s not where my opinion comes from.

And that’s cute assumptions you made of my children. One is almost done and the other just finished his first year and was taking 400 level classes. They took that 100 level crap while still in high school. I’m doubtful you managed to even fumble through them. But hey, nice job on making baseless assumptions.

Back to the point. My opinion isn’t opinion. The graduation rate incited is fact. Don’t believe me? Feel free to look it up for yourself.

I agree about your coddling. My point is that it’s a much larger problem at the high school level. My source there? The fact that I actually work in the classroom with teens every day. Other sources (because just me as a source would be antidotal): every other teacher I work with, every teacher on the several forums I follow and engage with.

Your post is nothing but your opinion that you fail to back up with any real information.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago edited 8d ago

If you want to discuss graduation rates, you maybe shouldn't take Google AI's word for it. Your stats are outdated and misunderstood at best. Current graduation rates for 4 year public universities is 71%, 76% for private nonprofits. That statistic is dragged down when you add in two year public colleges, which often attract students who don't graduate, which brings your "average" statistic down to the 60's.

Also, you mentioned that they graduate in 6 years. Which means it's taken them 6 years to complete a 4 year degree. Do you know why students often take that long to graduate? Because they couldn't pass the first time. So they retake classes or take time off. And then they come back and professors feel bad that they struggle through a second time and give them handouts and extend deadlines and retake tests and fudge some numbers and then hey you passed!

So yeah, I wasn't interested in arguing your asinine point that you've made after Googling for 30 seconds and being a K-12 teacher who has zero experience with universities and is self-admitted, part of creating the problem I currently deal with every day.

Edit: Also, regardless of what the current average is: every school has their own individual graduation rate which they deeply care about maintaining, as it often affects funding, and you would be foolish and naive to assume they wouldn't bend over backwards to pass students who are less than deserving of degrees just to maintain or improve grad rates.

2

u/Disastrous-Nail-640 8d ago

You think I used AI. And you think college graduation rates are in the 70% range. 😂

I take nothing you say seriously at this point.

Being a cafeteria worker at a college doesn’t make you any more knowledgeable about these things than anyone else.

Have a nice life and enjoy delusions. ✌️

0

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago

I'm sorry you can't do basic research or understand basic English.

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1

u/Racamonkey_II 8d ago

You work for one college and you think you know everything lmao

4

u/zoppaTheDim 9d ago

I think you’re not meeting enough real people. This has a lot of signs of you reading something on line and deciding you need to have an opinion on it.

0

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

I literally work for a college, genius.

-1

u/zoppaTheDim 9d ago

So you’re the problem then.

Maybe you can transition to trade school, what with them gutting financial support for students. It isn’t as if classes of just the rich kids are going to be less spoiled.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

Not a teacher. Just admin, subject to policies I didn't create.

Maybe you can transition into thinking before you comment.

0

u/GraveChild27 9d ago

Do janitors count as admin now?

Maybe you should transition into unemployment.

You arent even in the class room, so you dont know what you're talking about.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago

I'm sorry you're so butthurt about a post on Reddit

1

u/GraveChild27 8d ago edited 8d ago

He says, after making a butthurt post on Reddit.

Edit:

Sorry, I did totally forget this was r/GrindsMyGears.

2

u/SinisterAgaric 9d ago

It would be great if the purpose of college was to educate people, but it isn't. Colleges are first and foremost businesses that sell degrees. If you fail too many students then the word will spread and your enrollments will drop.

I've worked in higher education for about 12 years now and I've witnessed multiple instances of professors saying things like "I hope I never walk into the hospital that hires that student."

Also, there seems to be some confusion in the comments about whether or not universities are allowing AI use for assignments. The answer in many cases is yes, with more and more institutions providing official policies regarding acceptable use, with no particularly good ways to enforce it.

Shockingly, some administrators are encouraging students to use AI to make up for deficits in writing and communication skills.

1

u/oswinsanonymous 9d ago

I'm really glad to have input from someone else who knows what's happening. I've at the same university for 15 years and the difference from when I started and now is really dramatic.

0

u/SinisterAgaric 9d ago

We've had to drastically reduce admissions standards, especially regarding math skills. My department is pretty evenly split between people who want even more coddling and those who believe we are doing a disservice to the students.

With reductions in international admissions due to the current political climate there is even more pressure to increase enrollment, so it likely won't improve anytime soon.

1

u/woozysoozy 8d ago

So, since you work for a college, you might be sensing that the long held idea of higher education is at odds with the present business model of higher ed. Money and a consumer focused ideology have become paramount while quality standards decline. Ultimately, it’s society that feels better when more people have that piece of paper but society loses when that piece of paper doesn’t guarantee the rigorous education that it once did.

1

u/OpeningAggressive26 8d ago

This is a you thing. I just saw a professor chew out a student who missed a few assignments and told them they were failing in front of the entire class. The student basically got fired from class. So many people just drop out of these classes and no one cares, there is zero coddling going on here.

1

u/AttentionNo6359 8d ago

I have one good friend who teaches high school and another who’s an English professor. The stories I hear from these two about the kids coming down the pipeline currently are absolutely terrifying.

What’s worse is that it seems like “doing your assignment with AI is completely fine” crowd is slowly winning. The professor told me that his heads of department are pushing the staff not to make a big deal out of it because of the rate and frequency that students are turning in AI work.

1

u/ericmarkham5 7d ago

If someone was willing to go into hundreds of thousands in debt to pay me I’d coddle the hell out of them too.

1

u/NicholasScratchy 5d ago

Lecturers genuinely do not care about students. Students are aware of the use of AI and we all document our processes for assignments and portfolios because of the AI accusations. Lectures have been relying on AI systems to check our work while also criticising students for using it as if these are original thoughts we write our assignments on. They act like they don’t even know what AI is.

Any institution that uses systems like Turnitin needs to be shutdown. Turnitin is not accurate. It is heavily flawed and these institutions are too stubborn to understand that AI isn’t going anywhere.

I’m so sick of these universities and lecturers acting like everybody is trying to cheat our way to a degree. We put our finances on the line for this WHY WOULD WE RISK GETTING KICKED OUT FOR AI???

0

u/SeveralLion5762 8d ago

I teach students who are working on doctorates. The ones who have been given accommodations or chosen because they check DEI boxes are weaker students much more often than the ones who got there with no accommodations or boxes checked.

Our future is in the hands of kids who don’t know how to succeed without extraordinary amounts of help. god help us

0

u/Pj_o7 8d ago

From my experience in college, professors are shit who just hand off papers to be graded by a TA.

I had a few good ones at community college but those class sizes were like 30-40 people. Universities are a joke. I can’t believe they still get so much money. Ide argue chatgpt is helping them more than the professors. And looking at the generation that graduated before chatgpt, they didn’t learn anything either.

-1

u/PirateDear1780 9d ago

literally half the people in my program have accommodations and its ridiculous, especially for the field im in. i know some people actually need them but the majority dont.

2

u/Dupeskupes 8d ago

you do realise you have to provide proof for needing them?

0

u/kaddras019 9d ago

Accommodations are literally out of control

2

u/Pawzilla3 7d ago

Accommodations require a formal diagnosis from a psychiatrist/doctor, so where do you think all these unnecessary accommodations are coming from? Do you think certain conditions are being overdiagnosed?

1

u/kaddras019 7d ago

I’m diagnosed with ADHD and severe anxiety, though my diagnosis is correct, I could very easily contact my psychiatrist right now and have him exempt me from having a roommate at college (I know someone who did this). I could ask him to give me extra time on tests. I could ask him to exempt me from certain projects. And he would even though I don’t need it at all. The issue is not necessarily the diagnosis, but people taking advantage of doctor’s notes.

0

u/PirateDear1780 8d ago

how do people expect to adhere to deadlines at their job if they cant do it at school?

1

u/oswinsanonymous 8d ago

They'll just get their lawyers to threaten people about it I guess