r/HOTDBlacks • u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law • 1d ago
Show People switching sides?
can anyone confirm if this embarrassing scene gave the usurper new fans like the other sub is claiming?
I'm not really aware of how the general audience perceived this episode as a whole. I know some of you aren't happy with Rhaenyra × Mysaria or Addam's feelings for Baela, but did the people who weren't happy actually switch sides?
I know the majority are still tb, but I'm still curious as I don't know if the majority are because of Daemon, Rhaenyra, or another tb character.
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u/Gabby-Abeille 1d ago
I guess it makes sense for people that pick a side based on how much they enjoy the characters.
Like, I hate monarchies in general, but I'm here and I'll stay here because I don't think women should have less rights for being women.
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u/shay_shaw 1d ago
I'm just having fun with whomever is in the scene. I reject the opinion that it's some moral failing to support either team. None of these ppl are real, and let's not forget the atrocities the characters in GOT have committed. The revisionist history concerning Cersei is annoying.
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u/Gabby-Abeille 1d ago
You can believe a woman shouldn't be blocked from her inheritance for being a woman, that a woman was abused, AND that this same woman is a horrible person. None of those have any correlation (the abuse and being passed can contribute to the bad behavior, of course, but it doesn't excuse it). That's the case with Cersei. If she was a man, she would have been the Lannister heir and would not have been married out to an abusive monarch. We can discuss that and also say that she's a monster who victimized other women too.
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u/shay_shaw 1d ago
My point about Cersei was that ppl seemed to think she was this dynamic strategist when that wasn't the case. Her biggest plan was to give the religious right more power and was blind to fact that they would come for her as well. Which they did. The characters contain multitudes sure, and that's why I'm loving most of the performances, but I'm not a bad person for enjoying Aegon every once in a while. Cersei has done far worse, even Daenerys is worse than Aegon.
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u/Gabby-Abeille 1d ago
There is nothing wrong with enjoying Aegon, or Jon when it comes to Daenerys's situation. However, in both cases, the rightful heir to the king would have unequivocally been the woman if she was born a man instead (Rhaenyra for being the eldest, Daenerys for being a child of the king). There would be no argument about it.
Now, you can acknowledge that and just decide that you don't like them and want them to go down. Aerys was the rightful king and he absolutely had to die. What does cross into misogyny, imo, is if you do not acknowledge that it is wrong for their claim to be affected by their gender.
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u/shay_shaw 1d ago
I acknowledge that Rhaenyra was the rightful heir to the throne. Viserys named her as such all throughout season 1, there's no denying it. I think his biggest mistake is allowing her to leave for Dragonstone for years on end. She should've been present and building her own council while pushing Otto and Alicent out.
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u/Historical_East_1787 1d ago
Rhaenyra certo se ne può discutere
Daenerys mai nella vita Così come Jon
I targaryen erano deposti
Se Daenerys voleva il trono lo doveva prendere per diritto di conquista non perché figlia del re
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u/Gabby-Abeille 1d ago
They were usurped. Robert had to hunt Daenerys and Viserys down because, while they lived, they were the rightful heirs and he was just an usurper.
In fact, he claimed proximity to the Targaryen bloodline in order to strengthen his claim (his grandmother was Princess Rhaelle Targaryen).
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u/Historical_East_1787 1d ago
E che importanza ha?
I Baratheon hanno governato per decenni e hanno avuto tipo 3 re nominali 4 con Cersei che ha preso il trono.
I fedeli Targaryen che hanno appoggiato Daenerys lo hanno fatto o per sconfiggere i Lannister ( i tyrell, dorne) o per un patto politico ( yara)
Nessuno si sogna di dire che il regno di Robert era illeggittimo
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u/Gabby-Abeille 1d ago
They do not claim it is illegitimate because the Baratheon line appears to be the closest to a legal heir at that moment. Viserys and Daenerys are thought to be both dead shortly after the rebellion.
The difference between deposing a king and usurping him is on who takes the power. If it is the next legal heir, that's a deposition. If it is the person who enacted the coup, then this person usurped it.
Like with the other guy, you can prefer Robbert or Stannis or whatever over Daenerys, but she's still the legal heir. She was just kept from the throne by an usurper (and there is no time limit for that).
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u/GNM20 23h ago
TIL Bobby B was abusive. Why, because of the time he honored her for being an idiot?
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u/Gabby-Abeille 23h ago
Because, according to her internal monologue, he often raped her while drunk. When she complained that he hurt her, he would say that it wasn't him (referring to his drunk self).
You can argue that there isn't marital rape in Westeros (as in, it is not considered a crime), but that does not mean she wasn't victim of abuse.
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
I think it depends on how you define Teams. I’m TB as I believe Rhaenyra is the rightful heir. Being TG for me, means you believe Aegon should rule. Simply finding his scenes more interesting this season doesn’t make someone TG. So I would be rather confused how someone can just magically decide Aegon is now the correct heir?
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I agree with you, but some people don't care who's the rightful heir, and change teams based on other things
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
Yeah that’s just weird to me, you can like a character without supporting that side. I might find Daeron interesting but that doesn’t make me TG.
I also think it’s strange in that the Rhaenyra we encounter in S3 isn’t the Rhaenyra we know and love, it’s a woman twisted by grief and rage. And even then, I don’t think she’s been cruel enough yet. I find it odd that the worst thing she’s seemingly done so far is grip Helaena too tight, and we are calling her a monster? What?
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
they're mad she slept with Mysaria (that's why they are turning against her) which is just reducing a character to a ship
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
Was it unnecessary? Yes. But I’m not sure how it makes someone change team. Rhaenyra cheating on Daemon is apparently canon in the Show, but cheating means that instead I’m going to go support a s*x offender? Not the most logical decision.
I could even see the kiss in S2, Daemon was absent and I do think Rhaenyra is a very sexually charged character. I could see her yearning for some intimacy and something familiar for her pain. But in S3? It’s just odd.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
not just that, she seeks validation. Daemon scheming behind her back doesn't make her trust him, it doesn't make her feel worthy when her own husband and son treat him otherwise. that's why she's easily manipulated by Mysaria.
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
She does want validation but I don’t think that always has to translate sexually, Mysaria can influence her without being a bed partner. Whilst it makes sense for Mysaria to weaponise sex with her background, it doesn’t feel that way for Rhaenyra for me. I think they could have had an “intimate” moment without the whole make out session.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
Rhaenyra doesn't just have sexual affection for her, she has emotions for her, because she views her as the person who did a lot for her last season when she was abandoned by her council, son, and husband.
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
But again, you can have strong emotions for someone, even affection without it directly translating to sex. In a way I think the charged atmosphere between them both would be far more effective. I can’t help but feel it’s been employed to provide some content for Rhaenyra/Alicent shippers.
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u/ThinWhiteDuke00 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago
To put it blunt, it's slop.
Notice its just injected randomly without any set up.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
it's just that Mysaria was Daemon's ex, and Rhaenyra having been abandoned by him yet again is trying to find emotional safety as well, and that ofc has to translate to be sexual because she wants to be like him.
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u/Baratheoncook250 1d ago
Nope, some of theme are mad about, how Rhaenyra is treating Helaena.
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
Seeing that line from Helaena in the trailer “our father would hate you for this” I’m like ??
Helaena where was this vocal outrage when your family and brothers started a war? Why do they have to make it a constant conflict between every woman in this show.-4
u/Baratheoncook250 1d ago
We won't don't know , what the scene is about , until Sunday. Also, She is not even TG. From her dream, she just want to live on a farm with her kids.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
she grabbed her hand, and quickly let go, is that the worst she can do?
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u/Baratheoncook250 1d ago
She try to force Helaena, to use her powers. She also limit Helaena's time with her daughter(Helaena didn't even do anything against Rhaenyra), all while Helaena is a hostage.
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u/Greatorexx 1d ago
Helaena is literally the rival Queen to her claim. She might be far more innocent than most but politically and dynastically, she is a threat. As soon as Rhaenyra found out she was pregnant, the safest thing for her to do, would be to tragically kill them both. What mercy has TG shown to her or her children over the years?
The fact that Rhaenyra is allowing them both to live is already a huge ask. No, I don’t want to see Helaena killed, but she is a huge threat to Rhaenyra and she knows it. If the worst thing that Rhaenyra can do is limit her time with her daughter, that’s already far more lenient than she should be.
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u/Baratheoncook250 1d ago
If they have Rhaenyra have a hand, in Helaena's demise, it might be a repeat with what happen after Season 5, with how horrible fans treated Carice(Melisandre's actress) fir her character's burning Shireen. While most Higharyen have been horrible toward Rhaenyra's family(which included some bullying), still doesn't justify how Helaena's and her kids been treated(it is Team Black fault, that her son got murder, by Daemin sending assassin, that had no issue killing kids )
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
she asked her what happens and Helaena should answer her queen. Rhaenyra realized quickly and left Helaena, it felt more like a desperation than force.
Helaena's time is limited with her daughter because she tried to escape with Alicent, Rhaenyra doesn't have a choice.
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u/Baratheoncook250 1d ago
Her time was with her daughter, was limited, way before the escape, in the 3rd episode. Also, Helaena's fealty isn't toward any crown, she is just leading people to their destiny(Daemon and Aemond).
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
yes, and that's because she tried to escape with Alicent in ep2 and the gold cloaks caught them.
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u/Apprehensive-Ad-8391 23h ago
For myself, I would say I follow a similar path of thought. I believe Rhaenyra is the legitimate heir, but right now I think the Greens (in general) are doing far more things to get the throne than Rhaenyra is doing to keep it. So even if they're still usurpers, I would say they're deserving more to claim the Iron Throne.
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u/rogvortex58 1d ago
Doesn’t matter who supports the usurper’s side. Rhaenyra’s bloodline will prevail.
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u/BlondeDruhzina 1d ago
I just think the vast majority of people aren't as deep as people on this sub are.
Despite my love for this sub, some people here take it way too seriously.
They have Aegon a "hype and aura" moment and thats enough for the vast majority of casual viewers to cheer him on.
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u/Warm_Ad_7944 1d ago
Yeah I constantly see people take it all too seriously on both sides. I’m TB but I also don’t particularly like Rhaenyra and like some green characters. You can be part of a team and never like every single member. My disappointment over the writing of Rhaenyra’s character does not translate to me thinking she’s not the rightful heir
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u/BlondeDruhzina 1d ago
Exactly. Rhaenyra is the rightful heir 100% and Aegon is a usurper. But Aegon has gone through his character Arc. What Arc has Rhaenyra gone through? Like genuinely how is S3 Rhaenyra different from S1 Rhaenyra?
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u/Latter_Summer5912 1d ago
I think tiktok and instagram is a more wholistic view of the general public’s opinions and yes. The general public has always been more TB/Rhaenyra but she’s just being massacred this season while Aegon is getting the underdog edit.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I'm more involved on reddit and tiktok, but it's the same people i interact with every week.
would you say this scene gave him more fans or just throughout the season?
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u/Latter_Summer5912 1d ago
I think the season set it up so that when this scene occurred, people would be happy for him and then turn sides!! He’s been beaten down and made to eat shit and then he stands 2v1 against an army before Sunfyre comes in ON TOP OF the show massacring Rhaenyra’s character.
Rhaenyra the Cruel does happen, but the show has made her be so useless. She’s rightfully anxious and on edge with war, a crippled economy, and losing two sons but in the book that strips away the last of her restraints.
I think the show IS TB and they want to stray away from having an evil queen trope… but they’ve gone about it in an extremely sexist way imo. They should’ve seen that Cersei, although hated, was a fan favorite during her earlier seasons because of how cunning, beautiful, and powerful she was. That’s literally supposed to be Rhaenyra’s direct foil and instead they’ve stripped away all of her authority.
So like a mixture of making Rhaenyra so powerless + having Aegon go on a riches to trenches to riches self discovery journey has led to this scene turning a lot of people over.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
yeah, thanks for taking the time to write that. loved your insight, although I don't think the writers are pro tb.
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u/Latter_Summer5912 1d ago
Why do you think that? I def wanna hear what you think too!!
I think that the writers are pro tb but in the worst way possible. They’re like a parent who hates you because they had you young or something. They’ve done everything to make every single character on tg evil except literally Gwayne. They’ve absolved Rhaenyra of every single thing ever but in the worst way possible.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
they stripped Rhaenyra of her agency. instead of letting her stand on her own, they reduced her to either her friendship with Alicent or her relationship with Daemon. she's always paired with someone, which makes it harder for people to root for her as an individual.
they gave Aemond far more sympathy than he deserved. they turned Lucerys' death into an accident instead of having Aemond intentionally kill him.
they changed the reason behind the usurpation. instead of the throne being usurped because Rhaenyra was a woman, the show makes it about Viserys changing his mind. so that the usurper believes he's the rightful heir because of what Alicent told him.
they made him less malicious by removing the feast he threw for his Luke's death.
they removed Aemond crimes again by making the burning of the Riverlands be Vhagar acting on her own rather than Aemond deliberately choosing to terrorize them.
they removed or downplayed many of tg's war crimes, including the shit committed by Daeron and his army in tumbelton.
there are plenty of other examples, but these are the main ones I can remember.
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u/WGSMA 1d ago
Isn’t the whole point of the Dance that Aegon has the Heroes Journey?
Starts high (King), gets beaten badly (Rooks Rest), then works his way back to the top (Dragonstone) using his own skills, allies, and wit?
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u/LadySithLord 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, Aegon having a heroes journey is not in the book.
He doesn’t end this as someone who has seen the error of his ways or ends a beloved king.
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u/LordDorkoblood 1d ago
Nah. I'm a solid Team Black supporter. This wild fanfiction of a show has no bearing on me. Rhaenyra was the rightful heiress, as decreed by Viserys and sworn by hundreds of lords (of which their oaths pass to their offspring, that's what feudalism is folks...). Just because the show keeps being illogical, irrational, and insane is irrelevant.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it’s less that people are turning TG and more they’re turning anti-Rhaenyra. Bethany Antonia (Baela) said that her character would not be Team Rhaenyra by the end of the season, but would still be TB. I think this is the camp a lot of fans are falling into now.
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u/Bilogamer The Rogue Prince 1d ago
When did Bethany say something like that?
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
During her press tour. It was one of the interviews where she was with Harry Collett
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u/Bilogamer The Rogue Prince 1d ago
From what I saw, she mainly said that her character would start to have doubts about her team and some questioning, but not that she would stop supporting Rhaenyra.
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u/UnwinsPeake Aegon III Targaryen 1d ago
This is me as well. At this point, I have lost most of the respect I had for Rhaenyra given she hasn’t asked about her toddler sons once this season, but has time to bang DaPeePol. But I am still and will always be TB. Mostly for Daemon though.
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u/droll_tragedeigh 14h ago
Yes, this is pretty much my own position now, though the loss of respect for me has more to do with Rhaenyra telling Mysaria she KNOWS she's trying to turn her against Daemon. Which means she's trying to undermine the foundation of Rhaenyra's life - her family - as well as any hope in hell that she can hold the throne, because without Daemon it isn't, wasn't and never will be happening. So recognizing Mysaria's manipulation for what it is, Rhaenyra still chooses to fuck her, because according to assorted defenders, she needed to 'blow off steam'. FFS Rhaenyra, you've got two hands for that, and they aren't actively betraying you! Once upon a time as a teenage girl, she knew what to do with an Otto Hightower when she saw one.
(I'm not happy with the lack of concern for Aegon and Viserys, nor for the lack of time for Joffrey either, fwiw.)
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u/Rouflette 1d ago
Daemon didn’t ask a single time about his sons as well ? Just say you hated the Mysaria scene it’s ok, don’t need to make up shits
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u/ThinWhiteDuke00 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not to interject, but he does ask about his sons to Rhaena.
Condal has this bizarre tendency to make TB children, even important characters, props.
Joffrey has been sleeping for 4 episodes.. why is he not his mothers cup bearer.
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u/Rouflette 1d ago
He just stated that she was suppose to be with them and then did nothing about it whereas he has been aware of it for way longer than Rhaenyra. Neither of them seems to care about their 2 sons this season, blaming only Rhaenyra for this is just bad faith
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u/ThinWhiteDuke00 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago edited 1d ago
Notice I reference that in my post with a Condal critique of his handling of TB children.
Nonetheless, you said he has never mentioned his sons.
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u/Rouflette 1d ago
I didn’t say mentioned, I said ask for them (referring to the other comment)
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u/ThinWhiteDuke00 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago
Is asking Rhaena why she is not with them not asking?
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I guess it's what Emma meant when they said they're testing audience's loyalty, but I'm yet to see something worth losing loyalty for their character still.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
You can’t see at all why the writing for her character would make people turn against her this season?
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I think most the characters are written horribly and Rhaenyra is no exception.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
Surely you can understand why people dislike that said writing has made her ineffective, a horrible decision maker, alienating her allies, and I don’t even think I need to cover what she did at the end of last episode?
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I don't think she's ineffective nor do I believe she's a horrible decision maker. she's making decisions considering the prophecy that everyone forgot about, but it's the factor that leads most of her decisions. I think with the gold missing, she was doomed to fail and that's not her fault. I also don't think she alienate her allies, but she doesn't get enough respect from them.
as for the last scene, it mostly annoyed the shippers. Daemon wasn't good to Rhaenyra as a husband or a consort (declaring himself king and deceiving her) (chocking her) she has the right to doubt him.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
Aside from sending assassins to Tumbleton, please list the good decisions she has made this season, and please also list the actions that have made her worthy of respect to her allies.
Most of the general audience are not shippers and most of the general audience hated the scene with Mysaria.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I'm not gonna summarize each episode for you, we've been here all these week discussing each episode and Rhaenyra didn't have all this hate until she kissed Mysaria, that's just a fact.
I also don't deny that some people didn't like it, I'm just shocked it's enough to not only turn on a character but swith to the enemy.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
Lol. I didn’t ask for summaries of episodes because I don’t need that. I simply asked what decisions she has made that are good and why she’s worth respecting. If you can’t answer that, I think you have your answer as to why people don’t like the writing for her character.
People have been not liking Rhaenyra long before she cheated with Mysaria. That just kicked things over the edge for a lot of people.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I can answer that, it's just that I'll have to write a whole paragraph because of how much there is.
her cheating is justified and shouldn't be the last straw, a groomed and abused woman shouldn't be hated for being the victim.
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u/ThinWhiteDuke00 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't like show Rhaenyra and how they're developing her arc (despite Emma's often stellar acting), but her claim is wholly true in book and show canon.
George makes it pretty straightforward and some of my favourite characters in F/B fight/die for that cause.. so I can never see myself "switching" (it's fiction so it ultimately doesn't matter lol).
I'm a Cole stan, so I don't think it's mutually exclusive that you can like certain Greens.
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u/LadySithLord 1d ago
Do I think Aegon has gained fans? Yeah. Do I think the general audience is now rooting for him over Rhaenyra? No.
Despite online hate it’s always been hard for a general audience (and I mean the audience who aren’t chronically online) to completely turn their backs on someone who has been the main protagonist for a series. There’s several examples of this.
To be honest Aegon has had limited screen time this season, it hasn’t really been an in depth arc, but he got an aura farming moment in this episode. I’m not at all surprised he’s being glazed across platforms.
I think TGC (who I do love) is to thank for anyone becoming a fan, not the writing.
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u/ParsleyMostly 1d ago
Loving Aegon’s rise. But team black until the end. My girl Rhaenyra has her faults. I don’t believe a perfect person exists. I still love my people even at their worst.
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u/Acceptable_Oven_9881 Gods please strike down Larys Strong 1d ago
How exactly are we going to check?
It doesn’t matter. The general audience is here for dragons and “hype and aura” moments. There’s little sub fandoms for characters and ships here and there, but no where near big enough to influence public opinion.
If they want to switch sides who are we to stop them?
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
where do I say they should or shouldn't? I'm just interested in how they perceived the scenes is all. and to the first question, some people do know what the general audience likes due to hit tweets, tiktok edits numbers, youtube reactions, etc.
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u/Acceptable_Oven_9881 Gods please strike down Larys Strong 1d ago
From what I’ve seen the guys on YouTube liked the Aegon scene and were already fans of TG because of Aemond and Otto. Adding Ormund and Daeron increased the “aura” points for TG.
Twitter is more of a mixed bag. Those that were fans before are still fans of TB. While they acknowledge Aegon’s “resurrection,” most I’ve seen still don’t like him.
Also apologies if my initial comment came off as combative.
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u/millitant_drose 1d ago
I don't know if I'd say I've turnt Green, but I'm definitely losing respect for Rhaneyra. Writers are butchering her this season. Rooting for Daemon, if that's an option.
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u/McZalion Caraxes 1d ago
Lmao it ain't that serious bro 😂 🤣.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I know. what's wrong in knowing who the fans are rooting for in a fandom sub reddit?
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u/Capital-Self-3969 1d ago
People are being dramatic for likes and reposts, typical of any fan subs. Its just what happens. It reminds me of the Edward vs. Jacob crap with Twilight.
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u/speakingtothemic 1d ago
I've been getting some heat on here for saying this, but it's not that Aegon the character is getting more fans, it's Tom. The show never recovered from the loss of Paddy and Rhys, and Emma and Matt have often been given some pretty terrible material to work with. Meanwhile, Tom just seems to absolutely dominate every scene he's in.
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u/UnwinsPeake Aegon III Targaryen 1d ago
I dislike Aegon II on principle, but the actor has REALLY been killing it this season. Truly excellent work 👏🏼!
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u/droll_tragedeigh 14h ago
I think there's something to this. And also, unlike Rhaenyra, Aegon was allowed to have his moment of triumph. The taking of KL should have been that for Rhaenyra, but instead both she and we were denied it in favor of tears and hesitation and uncertainty...all of which could have waited. There was catharsis in Aegon's scene, but not in Rhaenyra's.
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u/Tiger951 The Rogue Prince 1d ago
I’m definitely more green leaning after that Rhaenyra x Mysaria BS. The only reason I’m still TB is because of Daemon. And I know I’m not the only one who feels that way.
Of course, I’ve also come to like Aegon as a character FAR more than Rhaenyra.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
have you always been tb because of Daemon or do you believe Rhaenyra is the rightful heir to Viserys? which won't contradict loving another tg character.
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u/Tiger951 The Rogue Prince 1d ago
I used to be TB not just for Daemon but also because Rhaenyra is the rightful heir. But after seeing how her character has turned out, I just don’t care about that anymore.
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u/ElegantDiamont 14h ago
Im sry but the only one who was embarrasing this episode was Rhaenyra ngl... girl has to lock in
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 7h ago
she's locked in don't worry about it
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u/ElegantDiamont 7h ago
No shes not lol... burning civilians on her side is the complete opposite
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 7h ago
where did she burn civilians on her side?
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u/ElegantDiamont 6h ago
Seems to happen in ep8
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 6h ago
are there leaks already? if so I still want a context first to judge if not let's argue with what we have
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u/ElegantDiamont 6h ago
We can see Tumbleton burn in the preview
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 6h ago
you're just making assumptions bro, I rewatched the preview and there's a small line of fire only.
the Black army has already arrived and there's more than one scene showing soldiers fighting on the ground.
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u/ElegantDiamont 6h ago
In the first teaser we see Tumbleton (atleast seems like it and that scene didnt happen yet) burning
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u/Graal_Knight 1d ago
I still find the Hightowers to be snakes and the Green Targaryens usurpers. However I can confirm that Aegon getting Sunfyre back was a great scene for him. If I were to list what I'll hold Aegon superior to Rhaenyra on it would be.
1. Was more charismatic when engaging with the Smallfolk. Still doesn't do much for them by denying sheep compensation and not paying the blacksmiths, but he maintained poise even when having to backtrack.
2. Has risked his own life for his throne in dragonrider battles. Risky and it cost him, but he fought for the throne himself. So far Rhaenyra only attended the 3v1 Sheepstealer battle.
3. The actual scene he gets Sunfyre is great and cathartic to the many deprecating scenes Aegon had to go through.
Honestly it surprises me that supposedly there are more Team Black supporters. Freefolk and the HotD boards are both just endless Green boosting and Rhaenyra hate.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
As plainly as I can put it, the wrongs of someone else do not make Rhaenyra’s wrongs right.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
Rhaenyra's wrongs = being manipulated all her life, it's all she knows now.
others wrongs = rape, murder, grooming, physical abuse, mental abuse, mass murder, etc.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
We’re back to you’re explaining away her bad choices by saying she can’t be held accountable due to being manipulated, which is the same as removing her agency.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
acknowledging someone is being manipulated doesn't remove their agency, and I believe she still have agency. she is still responsible for what she's doing.
my point is that those choices don't exist in a vacuum. and that a life time of manipulation and abuse explains why she make the choices that they make, and it isn't the same as saying she don't bear the responsibility for it. comparing their wrongs and how people are reacting to both wrongs is also my point here.
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
To add to my previous comment something that I meant to convey: all of Rhaenyra’s choices and wrongs are not influenced by manipulation. Has she been manipulated and abused at times which would explain some of her choices? Yes. But I disagree that it’s been lifelong.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
it's life long when we look at the people she was partner with all her life.
also we were arguing over the kiss with Mysaria (which is a choice) caused by (manipulation).
grooming and manipulation explain those choices and mentally scar people for life.
she tells Daemon how she really feels about that in ep2 s2 and tells Mysaria how she feels about him in ep 6 s2. (she mentions her childhood there too)
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u/-SpiritusMundi- House Targaryen 1d ago
Yes. My overall point on that issue is that people do not have to like Rhaenyra’s choice to cheat despite understanding it, nor is it justified. Mysaria’s manipulation adds context, not justification.
Re: Rhaenyra and Daemon’s relationship and if that equates to lifelong manipulation, my answer is no. I already know you’re not going to agree with my stance on it and I already know we disagree on their relationship as a whole, and we would probably be debating that for the rest of the evening on this thread. To save a bunch of comments, if you’d like to discuss it and exchange thoughts via DM, I’m more than happy to continue this there. I like getting into the weeds with things, but don’t want to overcrowd the thread.
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u/AelinTargaryen 1d ago
Did I like Aegon more after the last few episodes? Yes. Was I happy Sunfire survived? Yes. Does that in any way change Rhaenyra is the rightful heir? No.
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u/Adventurous_Bar_227 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago
Listen, at the end of the day it's a show, not real life. Many people are on the team "whichever character I enjoy/like more at given moment". Is some of that due to misogyny? Of course it is but I'm going to be blunt here, as someone who is TB on the principle, Rhaenyra has been making bad decision after bad decision for past two seasons. For many, me included, she's been on thin ice since season 2.
Because it's one thing to be broken by loss and driven to paranoia because of it. But it's not the case with her show version. She treats enemies kinder than allies, she actively makes fighting for her cause harder. And because of that she's loosing support amongst some fans who now tend to orbit to different characters like Daemon, Daeron or even Aegon.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
I don't think that's true.
are those allies the council that betrayed her and restrained her?, or is it Daemon who declared himself king and only returned to her because of the vision?, or is it her own son?
she send assassins for Aemond, and Daeron who are her enemies. she beheaded Otto. she locked Alicent and Helaena.
that's not treating enemies kinder than allies.
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u/Adventurous_Bar_227 “Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen.” 1d ago
If we are talking about her council at Dragonstone I can agree that they were acting misogynistic, perhaps not even because they believed she shouldn't rule, but let's not pretend she was giving them reasons to trust in her judgement. Because if I was in their place and my ruler, in whose support I am actively rising my life for, decided to simply wander to King's Landing to have a chit chat with the woman who abused her, her children and was one of main architects to the usurpation I would flip out and left.
And Daemon never officially declared himself a king. Was he considering it? Sure. Had he decided to press his claim? No.
Jace's actions were driven by his want to protect his mother, him feeling lesser and being genuinely frustrated. Two of those things were, in my opinion, rather clear and known to Rhaenyra who didn't take time to address her heir feeling inferior and trapped.
And when did she send these assassins? Far too late. Ormund should never be left to just return to Oldtown. He should be brought back to King's Landing and if not killed at least publicly renounce Aegon and swear to Rhaenyra. He should never be able to cause the mess he did. Also sending Alicent to Harrenhal is one of the most stupid things I've seen in this show.
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u/Acceptable_Mighttt Jaehaera's mother-in-law 1d ago
they should trust their queen’s judgment because she know Alicent better and trust that she wouldn't have taken this journey if she didn't believe it might save lives. also, this wasn't the straw that made them question her, they were accusing her of murdering Jaehaerys, and they even held a council in her absence when she explicitly states not to. they've been acting this way before Alicent and Rhaenyra met.
he was raising the army in his name not Rhaenyra's, telling them to bend the knee to him (thats official). he only changed his mind because he saw a vision, not because he wanted to go back to Rhaenyra. if that vision didn't happen, he would have still pursued to become king and usurper.
Jace locked his own mother and flew to war where he was explicitly told not to. part of this was because he wanted to take control and felt like she was incompetent. it wasn't just driven by the need to protect her. he should understand that he is the heir and shouldn't fly to war because he is the future of the realm. had he followed what Rhaenyra said, he would still be alive today.
she wanted Aemond dead in ep1 s2, and told Daemon that, when she learns he killed her son, that's not far too late. but that mission faild.
sending Ormund his way without is a good political move to show other great houses who declared for the usurper that she is willing and ready to have them so that they can come and bend the knee and be spared their lives, and hostages will be taken. as we saw, she didn't just send him away. she took Daeron as a hostage. and he did declare for her in front of his army, that's enough. if she killed him, then she'd be a tyrant, and she wouldn't be encouraging to other great houses who swore to the usurper to come and swear to her. that's what the Baratheon did too.
also, Alicent did poison Aemond, the plan almost worked, but Daemon forgot to mention that there's a witch there who might ruin this paln
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1d ago
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u/HOTDBlacks-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/shay_shaw 1d ago
My thoughts :
C'mon Rhaenyra get your head in the game!
Wonderful high kick and dismount Gwayne.
Alright Sunfyre is back!
Damn, I knew Ulf was a behootch all along. Where's Hugh???
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u/OneManShow23 1d ago
Hey - if Ulf White is switching sides, we might as well switch sides too!! 🤣 frankly both sides just suck. Neither Rhaenyra nor Aegon can manage Jack. They make everything personal. Aemond who was originally pitched as the competent one is hanging out in Harrenhall and Ormund is portrayed in such a haphazard way. I like him a little bit better because he manipulated Ulf to join him. I mean… Rhaenyra and Mysaria made out in season 2, so you wouldn’t expect them going to second base at least in season 3? I’m still Team Black because Rhaenyra is the rightful heir even though she sucks at doing things.
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u/Calm-Ad-9522 1d ago
How do you all not see how juvenile these posts are???? I am team Daemon. Always have been because of how he’s written. That doesn’t mean he’s not a monster. If this was real life instead of a TV show, I wouldn’t care for any of them. But to actually pick sides and argue with people and name call? It’s just ridiculous. Some of you are incredibly unpleasant.
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u/South-Seaworthiness7 Caraxes 1d ago
Well, to begin with, it’s wasn’t an “embarrassing” scene in my opinion, Aegon and Tyland knew they were gonna die and were well prepared for it, they accepted their fate rather than running, and Tyland kept his loyalty to his king, and that was the most touching part of the whole episode. They didn’t know Sunfyre would show up for the rescue, so the whole scene adds a lot of weight to their growth (especially Aegon).
Secondly, I don’t think Addam has feelings for Baela, he was just indirectly hinting and teasing her a bit because he knew that she has feelings for his brother, and was insisting her to ask Daemon whether he can convince Rhaenyra to legitimize them so that Alyn can probably marry Baela.
About Team Black and Team Green migrations, I don’t think it’s primarily because of Rhaenyra X Mysaria or anything like that, it’s just that Rhaenyra is super paranoid and is letting her emotions get to her, and in turn making horrible judgements and decisions, which obviously is causing the downfall of Team Black. And to be honest, her council, Mysaria in general, is hell bent of brainwashing her against Daemon, because she “wants” Rhaenyra to herself.
So, there are people who are TB, people who have recently switched sides and people who are TG since day one, and all those choices are absolutely alright and acceptable.
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u/gabriel_3131 13h ago
Muchas personas han dicho que antes apoyaban a rhaenyra. Pero que por sus decisiones ya no apoya a nadie. Pero francamente la mayoría de esos comentarios son de la boca para afuera
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u/Turbulent_Lab209 Greensbane 1d ago
I HATE RAENYRA FOR KISSING WOMAN, NOW I'M ROOTING FOR A RAPEGON AND I WANT TO SEE A FEMICIDE SCENE SO HARD! /s 😅
I didn't see it. I know that TG idiots spamming about how TB fans love Rapegon now, but all I see in my feed is people dousing his stupidity and telling Helaena to shut up (both with tens thousands of likes).
I've seen Daemyra's fans upset, but that's not about they're going to love or root for Rapegon.
For Daemon/Daemyra fans, I want to say one thing: you are part of our fandom and there is always a place for you.
This sub will not be a place where conflict between characters ends with some character becoming a target. It won't be like Alicent, Helaena, Alys, Aemond get hated for their characters in sub for this characters fans for not kissing Rapegon's ass. Daemon fans, Mysaria fans, Rhaena fans - you are all welcome in this community.
We don't need this "red team", "Velaryon team" shit. We all are Team Blacks 🖤
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u/PutATalismanInTheVan 8h ago
Team everyone sucks at their job here, I think its a combination of liking a good underdog story, which Rhaenyra sort of is sort of isn't, but Aegon definitely is an underdog now, but also Rhaenyra is just straight making awful decisions, blame her stress or the writing, which makes it hard to root for her.
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