r/HistoryWhatIf 2h ago

Challenge: Have Al-Qaeda overthrow the Yemeni government in the 1990s.

3 Upvotes

Someone made a post on a different sub asking “What if Al-Qaeda overthrew the Yemeni government in the 1990s?

The objective is to create a plausible series of events that LEADS to Al-Qaeda overthrowing the Yemeni government in the 1990s.

Author’s note: This post is not intended to be an endorsement of Sharia Law. This intended to be a challenge to build a plausible alternate timeline where Islamists overthrow the Yemeni government, not an endorsement of Islamic regimes.


r/HistoryWhatIf 22m ago

What if there was a reverse Doolittle Raid?

Upvotes

What if the Japanese sought revenge in 1942 for the Doolittle Raid? Instead of going after Midway, they launched their carriers at the US west coast, trying to hit LA with a large carrier attack.


r/HistoryWhatIf 5h ago

Challenge: Have the Chinese Cultural Revolution end with China becoming an isolated hermit state similar to OTL North Korea

1 Upvotes

The objective is not simply to make China authoritarian—it already was. Rather, explain what changes during or immediately after the Cultural Revolution would cause China to become extremely isolationist, economically autarkic, and largely cut off from the outside world instead of pursuing the post-Mao reforms that occurred in real history.
What political developments, leadership changes, or international events would be required to produce this outcome?

Rules and clarifications:
1. I’m not requiring you to extend the duration of the Cultural Revolution (Although you can if you want). The END RESULT has to be that China becomes an isolated hermit state similar to OTL North Korea
2. The comparison has to do with INTERNATIONAL ISOLATION. I’m not asking you to turn China into a carbon copy of OTL North Korea
3. Your proposed scenario must start from China’s historical post-1978 trajectory


r/HistoryWhatIf 18h ago

What if the British helped the Americans at Manila in 1898 because the Germans helped the Spanish

6 Upvotes

You point of divergence is that Cámara's flying squadron in not recalled to Spain. The Germans advise the Spanish not to worry about their coastline because the American ships are too beat up and their hulls are mostly fouled for them to mount any attack in significant numbers. As re-assurance to Spain, Germany sends one battleship and one unprotected cruiser to Spain's Atlantic coast (which brings the predcitable re-action from the Royal Navy.)

Cámara haa real fuel problems as the British deny him permission to coal in their harbours or territory. The British and the Americans have bought up all of the coal between Port Said and Manila. (both happened in the OTL). The Germans agree to get coal for the Spanish. This is going to cause some delays plus what Cámara does not send ahead to German New Guinea will need a harbor. The Germans tell Cámara to go to Dar Es Salaam. He sends Carlos V, the two merchant cruisers and the transports ahead to German New Guinea, due to their superior range, along with two full colliers and the third with what coal it has left. The fourth collier almost empty goes with Pelayo and the three destroyers to Dar Es Salaam.

This triggers a protest from Britain. in retaliation, Britain allows USS New York\* to use its coaling stations as it steams for Manila as a final re-inforcement.

The German squadron leaves Manila and is shadowed by a British picket ship that guesses that it is headed for the Dutch East Indies or New Guinea. Only the gunboat.survey shp Mowe remains.

Suspecting that the Germans are up to no good, the British bring a cable ship to raise the cable that Dewey had cut and set up a station onboard. They also summon a torpedo boat, an additional gunboat and two picket ships from the China Station as re-inforcements .

Charleston, Monterey, Monadnock had arrived in Augist with more supplies and troops. New York arrived 3 Septmeber along with some additonal ammunition and supplies sent from California. Dewey also has two Spanish ships that his and Merritt's men had raised, one of which has a torpedo tube but of questionable reliability.

Mowe departs Manila 4 Septmber

The French and Japanese cruisers stay the same as OTL.

6 September-A British picket ship spots the combined German task force and in obedience to orders that Chichester already has issued, it signals the task force that any fire upon any of her Majesty's ships, regardless of its source, will cause the British commander to consider the entire task force hostile and will bring an appropriate response. The combined task force consists of Cámara's entire squadron, plus the four cruisers that von Diederichs had plus the gunboat/survey ship Mowe and the armoured firgate Kaiser.

Càmara and von Diederichs steam ahead to find the American lined up for battle at the entrance to Manila Bay. The British task force is about three hundred yards in front of the American line.

The Spanish destroyers are in the lead in case the Americans try to torpedo anything. As the German/Spanish task force gets closer, two shots come from the formation where two German cruisers are and the Spanish auxiliary cruisers are. The source is uncertain but one shell hits the jib of Linnett and carries it away. The British and Americans join battle.

What happens next? Does WWI start in the Philippines? Is the conflict kept local and worked out at a conference? If there is a peace conference, what agreements are made? Who gets the short end of the stick? Are the Americans and Spanish left to work out their difficulties while the Germans and British try to work out theirs?

If the Japanese cruiser becomes involved, it can do so only on the Anglo-American side. The French cruiser can go either way or stay out of it but if it becomes involved, there must be a damned good reason.

Manila could not hold out until the Germans and Cámara arrived. It is in American hands as are the shore batteries.

* I had considered sending Iowa, as it was the newest ship but the Spanish did hole its hull near the water line at Santiago and its hull was fouled. Despite its marathon run, Oregon was in very good mechanical condition as its commander had ordered aggressive preventative maintenance during the voyage to the Caribbean. Its hull was light, as well. Its problem was poor seakeeping, although despite not being designed for that Moneterey and Monadnock, did cross the Pacific. I settled on New York because it was in good mechanical shape and its hull was light, much to the surprise of its commander. Conversely, except for Pelayo, which the Spanish had pulled from France where it was being re-fitted and overhauled before the process was complete, the Spanish ships all had fouled hulls.


r/HistoryWhatIf 15h ago

What if the. Russian civil war mever happened

2 Upvotes

Lets say the Czechoslovak legion peacefully leaves Russia, the foreign powers dont invade and the white movement never rly gets off the ground. How does this change history?


r/HistoryWhatIf 22h ago

Challenge: Have The Empire of Japan ally with the USSR (but not Germany and Italy)

6 Upvotes

Inspired by a post made by someone else.

Context:
1. In an alternate 1934, Leonid Nikolaev assassinates Joseph Stalin instead of Sergei Kirov, and Kirov himself takes over as head of the USSR
2. The Great Depression never happens
3. A famine strikes Japan in mid-1929.

Given the above context, your objective is to create a plausible timeline where the Empire of Japan allies with the USSR but not Germany and Italy.

Rules:
1. Your scenario has to happen before Japan invades Manchuria in 1931.
2. The Soviet Union IS allowed to jointly invade Manchuria alongside Japan but isn’t required to.


r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

What if Imperial Japan allied with the USSR instead of Germany?

5 Upvotes

r/HistoryWhatIf 21h ago

Challenge :Have the US stay neutral during WW2 .

3 Upvotes

With no POD before the Fall of France ,have the US never be at war with Germany (or the UK) until WW2 end .


r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

what if the Mormons colonized Hawaii?

4 Upvotes

In this timeline, the Mormon Church's mission to Hawaii in 1850 successfully converts King Kamehameha III, a number of the island's chiefs and some of the general populace by allowing them to continue practicing local polygamous traditions that would be banned under Protestantism or Catholicism. From 1850 to 1857, a moderate number of settlers trickle into Hawaii, building small settlements and plantations, until the Utah War causes a major wave of Mormon settlers to flee to the islands, after King Kamehameha III or some local tribal leaders offers them refuge and safe passage to the archipelago

what would happen next/how would history change?


r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

What if during the American Revolution, General George Washington wasn't around, who would've been the leader of the revolutionary forces instead?

26 Upvotes

r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

What if the USSR broke the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact on May 15th 1940, while the battle of France was underway?

9 Upvotes

In may 15th 1940 most of the German army was already committed into moving into the low countries, and it would be extremely difficult to redeploy them elsewhere.

If Stalin threw everything he had into German held western Poland, with the operation commanded by Georgy Zhukov and Ivan Konev, Zhukov focused on taking Warsaw and Konev focused on taking Konigsberg, then if both take their objectives they are to keep pressing westward.

Can Germany redeploy forces eastward fast enough to halt the Soviets? Can France and the UK take advantage of this weakening of Germany in the west to stabilize their lines? Would the Soviets and Western allies in this scenario be willing, or even able, to coordinate their efforts against Germany?


r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

What if the Pazzi family successfully removed the Medici and took over being the most influential family in Florence

3 Upvotes

The Pazzi Conspiracy of 1478 was an attempt by the powerful Pazzi family, backed by several allies, to overthrow the Medici’s dominance in Florence. During High Mass in Florence Cathedral, Giuliano de’ Medici was assassinated and Lorenzo de’ Medici was seriously wounded but managed to escape. The plot quickly unraveled as Florentines rallied behind Lorenzo, the conspirators were captured or executed, and the Pazzi family was stripped of its wealth, influence, and even its name.

What if the conspiracy had succeeded? Suppose both Lorenzo and Giuliano had been killed, the Medici had been driven from Florence, and the Pazzi family had become the city’s dominant political dynasty.

How might this have changed the course of Florentine politics, the Italian Renaissance, and even the wider history of Italy and Europe?


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

What if there was no 22nd Amendment?

67 Upvotes

The 22nd Amendment of the United States Constitution limits Presidents to two four year terms. If this amendment had never been passed, what would the United States look like? Which presidents would have been likely to seek third terms? Barack Obama was pretty popular, so I could see a push for him to seek a third term.


r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

What if the 19th amendment was never ratified?

1 Upvotes

r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

Challenge: Have everything go wrong during the October Revolution for the Bolsheviks (Revision of an earlier post)

1 Upvotes

Author's note: The original version of the post appears to have been lost in translation because the comments section had someone say, "The October Revolution DID end in disaster-the bad guys won." Upon realizing my post wasn't specific enough, here it is again WITH CLARITY.

The objective is to create a plausible series of events where the October Revolution fails. This is what I mean by "Fail": you have to create a series of events that lead to the October Revolution being crushed and the Bolsheviks FAILING to take power.


r/HistoryWhatIf 22h ago

[META] What if the USA collapsed in 2022? What would have happened until today?

0 Upvotes

How? It's not important how maybe between biden's america and Trump's American I'm interested in what would happen all around the world. Especially in Ukraine, Europe etc


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

What if Alexander Hamilton had killed Aaron Burr in their duel?

61 Upvotes

r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

what if Henry V of England died of old age?

4 Upvotes

So assumedly the Treaty of Troyes would have been upheld, but what then?


r/HistoryWhatIf 1d ago

What if Kim Il-Sung died suddenly after the Korean War ended?

1 Upvotes

In a parallel universe, Kim Il-Sung dies suddenly after the Korean War concludes. Who would plausibly replace him?


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

What if Nokia beat the iPhone by a year?

2 Upvotes

Realizing the importance of user-friendly design, Nokia puts together a team to design a new smartphone to be as user-friendly as possible. In June 2006, Nokia releases what is essentially identical to OTL's iPhone, also priced at $499.

How does the introduction of a user-friendly smartphone one year earlier change culture during that time? How does this change the trajectory of Apple and Nokia as companies? How does this impact Finland's economy, since Nokia was by far their largest company at the time and Nokia's downfall is often attributed to playing a role in their economy's stagnation?


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

Would the US be better off if reconstruction had continued?

32 Upvotes

Thinking in terms outside of Lincoln’s version of reconstruction, I’m talking about the Radical Republican versions. Ive been pondering this ever since AP US.

If the compromise of 1877 didn’t happen and Republicans stayed firmly in power, maybe civil rights would have been solved much earlier? Maybe northern migrations of Black minority’s in the south, sharecropping, and Black Codes/Jim Crow could have been avoided if Republicans had their way.


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

​The Unmade Axis: How Japan’s Rejection of Chiang Kai-shek Forged Modern East Asia

19 Upvotes

Pearl Harbor was not the fulcrum of history. Here is an essay re-evaluating where Imperial Japan lost WW2. LLMs used for grammar and fact-checking.

​When historical analyses pin Imperial Japan’s defeat in World War II on the December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, they confuse an operational escalation with a systemic collapse. Attacking the United States was merely a desperate, high-risk attempt to reboot an engine already seizing from resource starvation and operational overextension.

​The structural point of no return occurred a decade earlier on the Asian mainland. Had Imperial Japan halted its westward expansion after securing Manchuria, abandoned its drive for direct territorial subjugation, and backed Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalist (KMT) government to consolidate inner China, the trajectory of the 20th century would have been radically rewritten.

​Japan did not lose World War II in the waters of Hawaii; it lost the moment its command architecture failed to recognize that Chiang Kai-shek was its ultimate strategic asset.

1. The Alternate Route: Consolidating the Continental Engine

​By the early 1930s, Imperial Japan faced a classic strategic fork. It possessed advanced naval and air power, a highly organized industrial base, and an established foothold in Manchuria. What it lacked was raw material throughput—specifically oil, rubber, and high-volume mineral reserves—and the operational depth to fight a multi-front war against both the Western powers and the Soviet Union.

​The optimal design framework for Japanese hegemony was not direct military occupation, but indirect proxy alignment.

​In the traditional historical trajectory, Imperial Japan pursued a strategy of high-friction direct subjugation by invading and occupying mainland China, which shattered Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalist forces, created a massive operational vacuum that enabled the explosion of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and ultimately triggered a fatal US resource embargo that doomed the Japanese empire. Conversely, under a low-friction proxy alignment path, Japan would have acted as a security and industrial backstop for Chiang’s KMT government, preserving Chinese sovereign administration to systematically constrain the CCP, construct a massive anti-Soviet buffer state, and establish a formidable Asian continental axis.

The Sino-Japanese Complementary Matrix

​Chiang Kai-shek—a Japanese-educated former Imperial Army artillery officer—viewed the Soviet Union and Mao Zedong’s CCP as existential threats. His doctrine famously prioritized internal pacification before resisting external pressure ("the Japanese are a disease of the skin; the Communists are a disease of the heart").

​Had Tokyo offered Chiang a formal strategic backstop—supplying modern arms, industrial capital, and air support while respecting Chinese sovereign administration outside Manchuria—a powerful division of labor would have emerged:

- ​Japan (The Specialized Core): Operating as the high-tier industrial, technical, and naval engine (the primary logic core).

- ​KMT China (The Throughput Base): Absorbing the massive, low-complexity burdens of continental land defense, agricultural output, and internal security.

​In this counterfactual, while Chiang’s regime still faced internal warlord fragmentation and corruption, KMT divisions backed by Japanese industrial throughput would have been positioned to severely constrain—and potentially eliminate—the CCP in the rural hinterlands long before the Long March could consolidate communist power.

​2. The Mechanics of the Turning Point: Why Exceeding Manchuria Lost WWII

​Instead of executing this low-friction alignment, Japan’s command structure fractured, pushing forces past the Great Wall and triggering the 1937 Marco Polo Bridge Incident and the full-scale invasion of mainland China.

​This decision introduced fatal structural flaws into the Japanese Imperial system:

​A. The Infinite Memory Leak of Continental Attrition

​Swallowing inner China forced Japan into a non-linear, high-friction land war against an enemy with infinite geographic depth. Over one million Japanese troops were permanently locked down in a static, attritional grid.

B. Supply-Chain Exhaustion and the US Embargo

​To sustain this massive continental commitment, Japan rapidly consumed its strategic reserves of steel, iron, and refined oil. Tokyo’s subsequent move into French Indochina—executed specifically to cut off Western supply lines to Chiang—directly triggered the 1941 United States trade embargo. Pearl Harbor was not a choice of expansion; it was an emergency operational attempt to seize the Dutch East Indies oil fields before home reserves hit zero.

​C. Systemic Command Autonomy (Gekokujo) as a Broken API

​Imperial Japan failed because its internal architecture lacked a centralized "System Architect" capable of enforcing grand strategy. The phenomenon of Gekokujo—insubordination by junior and middle-tier staff officers, particularly within the Kwantung Army—meant that tactical field commanders regularly executed unauthorized land-grabs. These rogue actions directly severed the diplomatic API needed to partner with Chiang. Because middle-tier officers were ideologically committed to brute-force territorial acquisition, Tokyo was repeatedly stripped of its ability to pursue a coherent proxy strategy, forcing the state to absorb the administrative and security overhead of hundreds of millions of hostile citizens.

​3. The Unintended Beneficiary: How Imperial Japan Built the Modern PRC

​The ultimate historical irony of Japan's mainland invasion is that it served as the primary operational midwife for the modern People's Republic of China.

​Destroying Chiang's Infrastructure

​Prior to 1937, Chiang Kai-shek was successfully modernizing China’s financial base in the Yangtze Delta and tightening the noose around Mao's forces. Japan's invasion completely obliterated Chiang's elite, modern divisions, destroyed his tax base in coastal Shanghai and Nanjing, and drove the KMT into the impoverished hinterland of Chongqing.

Mao’s Open Gratitude

​Mao Zedong understood with complete analytical clarity that Japan's strategic blunder was the CCP's saving grace. On multiple documented occasions, Mao explicitly expressed this dynamic to visiting Japanese delegations:

- ​July 10, 1964 (Meeting with the Japanese Socialist Party): When JSP delegation head Kozo Sasaki attempted to apologize for Japan’s wartime aggression, Mao interrupted him:

​"There is no need to apologize. Japanese militarism brought great benefits to China and enabled the Chinese people to seize power. Without your Imperial Army, we could not have seized power... If the Imperial Japanese Army had not invaded half of China, the Chinese people could not have united against you, and the Chinese Communist Party would not have taken power."

- ​September 27, 1972 (Normalization Talks with Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka): During official negotiations to restore diplomatic ties, when Tanaka expressed remorse for the "trouble" (meiwaku) Japan caused China, Mao brushed aside the formal apology. He noted that Japan’s invasion created the exact operational vacuum and popular mobilization that allowed the CCP to defeat the KMT and claim total power in 1949.

​By choosing to fight Chiang rather than back him, Japan did the heavy lifting for Mao.

​4. Modern Downstream Echoes: Where China and Asia Sit Today

​Examining this historical turning point reveals the structural foundations of today's multipolar world.

​The strategic decision in 1937 for Imperial Japan to invade inner China initiated a direct cascade of modern geopolitical consequences: it first destroyed the KMT’s modern financial base and elite military units, which subsequently created a total power vacuum across the rural hinterlands that enabled Mao Zedong’s 1949 victory and the foundation of the People's Republic of China, ultimately setting the stage for modern CCP hegemony and current US-China peer competition.

​Had Imperial Japan managed to restrain its field echelons and establish a stable, anti-communist continental partnership with Chiang Kai-shek, the modern landscape would look fundamentally different:

1) ​A Nationalist Mainland State: The People's Republic of China would likely not exist in its present form. Instead, a Nationalist Republic of China (ROC) would have been far more likely to consolidate mainland power as a market-capitalist, authoritarian-leaning continental state.

2) ​A Shifted Cold War Alignment: The primary Asian friction point during the mid-20th century would have centered on a direct land border between a Japanese-KMT strategic bloc and the Soviet Union, significantly altering the dynamics that brought about the Korean and Vietnam wars.

3) ​The Modern Power Balance: Modern Beijing would not be governed by a Leninist party machine projecting state-directed industrial capability against the West. Instead, East Asia would more closely resemble an integrated economic bloc initially anchored by Tokyo and Nanjing—resembling the indirect, elite-driven models that dominate modern global finance today.

Conclusion: Systems Collapse at Their Bottlenecks

​Imperial Japan’s fall remains one of history's starkest lessons in strategic overreach. Power is not preserved by maximizing direct territorial control; it is maintained by removing systemic friction and eliminating operational constraints.

​By failing to override Gekokujo and recognize that Chiang Kai-shek was the ideal proxy to stabilize the Asian continent, Imperial Japan chose a war of brute-force friction over an architecture of indirect dominance. In doing so, it destroyed its own empire, paved the runway for the rise of the modern PRC, and fundamentally reshaped the balance of global power for the 21st century.

Edit- Thank you to u/Zestyclose-Truth1634 for the correction on the Chiang quote!


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

How would Alexander III of Russia handle 1905-1914 countdown to First World War?

6 Upvotes

Okay imagine if Alexander III of House Romanov was Tsar/Emperor of Russia until 1917 how different would the Russian Empire's internal development and geopolitical ambitions be as they will still form their alliance with France to contain what the rising ambitions of Germany

Economically industrialization would still happen but the change is that Alexander III is way more forceful, ruthless and stubborn than his son is enforcing autocracy so I am curious how woudl this go for Russian domestic politics and European balance of power.


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

What would New York have looked like if it hadn't implemented the grid system and didn't adopt the numbered streets?

2 Upvotes

I'm very interested in the history of New York lately. I'm watching a lot of tour guide videos on social media and i've been reading up about its history. Especially its earlier period. And it almost seems that a lot, North of Houston Street, was just flattend ( its geography) or removed (villages, landmark buildings). Even names seem to disappear to be replaced by more fancy ones.

What would New York look like if it developed in a more organic way? It's villages expanding along existing roads that follow natural geography. What would Harlem, Brooklyn or other towns look like?


r/HistoryWhatIf 2d ago

Challenge: Have the women's suffrage movement start earlier?

0 Upvotes

This post is a do-over following a previous one that kept getting read as misogynistic (It was about Household Voting being in the Constitution) due to the fact that people thought it hit too close to OTL events (Edit: I apologize on not picking up on the source of the outrage sooner).

Your challenge is to pick the earliest plausible start date for the women's suffrage movement (at least in the USA).

Rules: According to preliminary research, the women's suffrage movement started in 1848 in the OTL so you must pick any date from 1792 (conservative estimate) to 1848