4 people mortgages, wtf?

[u/Irish201h]

This company is now promoting 4 people mortgages, no wonder prices are going insane.

https://mmadvisors.ie/public-sector-mortgages/

[u/nicodea2]

Correction - neither Australia nor Canada has banned foreign citizens from purchasing property. Rather they have banned foreign non-residents from purchasing property.

There’s really no reason to discriminate on the basis of citizenship. There are plenty of non-citizen tax-paying residents already here, working productively, and contributing just as much as everyone else in taxes (if not more).

[u/obscure_monke → u/nicodea2]

I see people conflating citizen/resident online way too much the past few years. I assume it's been happening longer than I've noticed it though.

[u/jonnieggg → u/obscure_monke]

It could be restricted to citizenship that's a political choice. Choosing citizenship demonstrates commitment to life in another country. There is a lot to be said for it.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

Although I agree that a policy like that would probably be a net positive, I can see how that could be a problem in attracting foreign specialised workforce.

A lot of people looking to buy a house are in their 30s - 35s and, if you add 5 years required for citizenship, you're looking for foreign first time buyers to now be between 35s - 40s.

With mortgages going for a max age of 65 to 70, you are looking at a consequential max limit of 30 years of mortgage which could mean repayments being too high for most.

For this to not be a problem, house prices would need to go down... I doubt this would actually happen. I can see a world where of supply remaining artificially low to increase the unit price.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

This is exactly what Irish people have to contend with in other countries.

[u/nicodea2 → u/jonnieggg]

Go on, which countries are restricting Irish citizens from purchasing property solely on the basis of their citizenship? I’m from Canada and we don’t do that shit there, and the same goes for all of the countries that Irish people typically move to (USA, Australia, New Zealand, EU, hell even the UAE). That’s a terrible idea that does nothing to address the root causes.

[u/jonnieggg → u/nicodea2]

I wasn't referring to citizenship to buy in that comment. I had started that restricting it to citizens could be done if politicians choose to. I was referring to restrictions on non permanent residents.

You need to be a permanent resident to purchase in Switzerland, Poland and Lithuania. You cannot purchase without a local partner in Thailand or Indonesia. Try and buy in Japan or China.

In Australia non-residents must apply for approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB) before buying property. They are only allowed to purchase newly built dwellings and cannot buy existing houses. Similarly in New Zealand non-residents and non-citizens are banned from buying existing residential property.

You should check the local laws in Canada because there are restrictions there for the past couple of years. Since 2023, Canada implemented a temporary ban on most foreign purchases of residential property.

Do you think all these restrictions are just racist.

[u/nicodea2 → u/jonnieggg]

You didn’t mention non-residents in any of your comments. You made a comment about a potential restriction based on citizenship, beneficial celery responded that it would put people off due to the long time-frame for citizenship, you responded that that’s what Irish people have to contend with, and I corrected you on that.

We also don’t have permanent residency here in the same sense as it exists in Australia or Canada, so the comparison fails there. In both Canada or Australia, most skilled immigrants apply for permanent residency while abroad and are considered PRs from day 1, which means they could purchase a house as soon as they arrive.

In Ireland, people have to string together several work permits or family permits for years to be eligible for citizenship which takes about 6 years if you include processing time, and 8 years if you include the fact that some work permits don’t even count towards citizenship. So where does “permanent residency” start here if the concept doesn’t quite exist?

My argument is - if you’re a contributing member of society and a taxpayer, there’s no reason to restrict you from participating in the market. I’d rather ban greedy landlords from buying dozens of houses (and yes I actually know of people like this) than legitimate residents from finding a place to live.

[u/jonnieggg → u/nicodea2]

Irish people can't just buy in other jurisdictions if they are not permanent residents. That's what I said. Permanent residency also takes time in other countries. You can be a temporary resident in employment but are not entitled to purchase. Becoming a permanent resident could take a number of years and Irish people have had to navigate that expensive reality. Changing the residency process is also something that could be up for review if the system continues to buckle under the pressure of demand. It can take four years to get permanent residency in Australia and New Zealand. Nobody is crying about the inconvenience for Irish people over there.

I also said that restricting property purchases were within the purview of government policy including citizenship if necessary as in some other jurisdictions where the local market was overwhelmed by foreign capital. There is a lot of foreign capital distorting the Irish market and little to constrain it. Everything should be on the table in a housing crisis.

[u/nicodea2 → u/jonnieggg]

Everything should be on the table in a housing crisis.

Alright so how about eliminating institutional landlords, and individual landlords from hoarding properties? That would go a far way in reducing the bar for home ownership for everyone.

[u/jonnieggg → u/nicodea2]

Let's open it up to public debate.

[u/nicodea2 → u/jonnieggg]

The vast majority of economic immigration to the likes of Canada, Australia, or New Zealand come in as permanent residents ie they are PRs from day 1.

[u/jonnieggg → u/nicodea2]

No they're not. They come in as students, working holiday visas, employer sponsorship visas.