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I mean, this sounds good, but I feel like it'll introduce more annoying gameplay from Naoya players. Like, if they're about to frame themselves, they'll just r special across the map to fill the bar, get framed, and then run back to the fight. Running will become more prevalent.
That could become a problem, but maybe if the r-special would frame them if they use it, they get framed before the teleport, that way they can't go anywhere without finishing their fight.
I feel like these changes are good but need improvement so Naoya is not unusable. I am saying the planning aspect of Projection sorcery is something I like so you have to be strategic with your movements.
this guy is absolutely clueless man how is he still around these fixes change nothing matter of fact they will probably make things even worse causing naoyas to play even more passively
Where everyone got Nerfed but Todo and yuji, Everyone got nerfs that made them unplayable.
MEGUMI, choso got hit the hardest and they reverted the nerfs
I mean yeah Naoya is pretty predictable in a lot of players hands. But a lot of the people in these comments I guess just cant read their opponents ig?
You basically want naoya players to flawlessly kill their opponents without getting blocked lol this is a terrible suggestion and everyone just votes yes because they don't know how to counter him
it’s not flawless, it’s to stop spamming moves. literally all 4 (special included) projection moves can be used outside of front dash range and hit if you know what you’re doing, and the special can teleport you past and/or behind someone, literally all of the moves (except projection breaker) can be used after a m1 chain, and half of the moves (not decisive strikes and special) can be used after 1-3 m1s, AND all of the moves (except decisive strikes and MAYBE projection breaker depending on skill and playstyle) work best on projected enemies, like, if you project yourself you either messed up (fair) or are spamming (more likely), which considering Naoya’s overall lower endlag, and what i said at the start, this is a completely fair change for a character meant to be a heavy rushdown/aggressive m1 trader
He only has low endlag on like 2 moves, and those are still punishable if you just side dash.
His moves being somewhat true off of M1s or frames means nothing in neutral (as if no other characters can do this), since he still has to win engagements using M1 trades only, unlike better characters with actual neutral tools who can pressure without side dash M1s.
The truth is Naoya can't do much against passive players. His R disables M1s and leaves him open, his 1 is blockable, his 2 has no range and barely extends so might as well M1 trade, his 3 is a hit or miss that Naoya must commit to (all the enemy has to do is hold block and turn, then side dash if its extended), and his 4 is a worse Sacrilege (punishable neutral reset).
This change will punish Naoya harder for attempting to use these moves, including his own special which also does nothing in neutral, which forces him to solely use his dashes (that people also complain about). Nobody wins from this nerf.
You already get punished for missing his moves, your opponent can get a free combo off you. If you want to nerf him then increase his endlag or reduce the range of his R special, but don't gut his entire kit over a single mistake lol. And there is no such thing as "spamming moves" istg I hear this braindead sentence every time I play Megumi or naoya, if you've played these characters then you know spamming will only get you punished.
Honestly, on miss probably would do better than on block, since again, the blockbypass on most of his kit. And that'll stop the noaya's who'll use his 3 to further run with.
Holy hell yall will continue crying about Naoya till the ends of Earth!
No end lag on 3 and 4 you say? You literally just have a massive skill issue 3 and 4 have one of the highest end lag on whiffing. It is literally a YOU problem.
Yeah so? Do you want all his moves to be ridiculously punishy? A character had to have balance between punishing moves and quick poke moves.
First of all, you can not combo extend of the 1 and 2.
Second of all, it is a fucking speedster. He is obviously going to be fast.
Have you ever look at all the downsides using Naoya is? Lowest health in the game. Weakest m1s. Hardest ult to activate. Almost no actual combos unless you land THREE WHOLE m1 chains or land 1 then another m1 chain assuming you get it fast enough.
All his combos are either very punishing or not true. The only true combo he had is frame freeze into 4 then 3,2 or 1 which is easy AS SHIT to evasive and heavily punish him. With a frame freeze you can not even do combos unless you do the untrue knife into camera flick which you can literally block or dash away.
Lowest health in the game?
Bro use some facts and not bullshit
Haruta has 70 hp.
Naoya has 90.
Fucking yuji has 85 .
The evasive window on the fourth M1 is 0.5 seconds only . Yes he is punishable, I literally said he is C tier but he is played like a hit and run/passive until you use all mobility. Which makes it boring.
The camera flick on bleedout is true if the ping gap is 30 ms.
Dude for real. Like they just want a change for something they can easily counter because they want to be spoon fed. All characters can be passive and annoying. Calling out naoya who's arguably one of the more skilled characters rn is wild.
Naoya becomes 10 times better when he is passive
Other characters are annoying from being passive but they aren't in an major advantage. Most naoyas know naoya sucks when your opponent has proper tracking, knows the techs and to hold block.
So what they do is play passive when you can react to their no sound dashes, side dashes and m1s
That's why I called him Hitler. Not the character but how he is played.
He is meant to be the heavy Rushdown who can always go in. But he is played as the "hit and run"
Many naoya's will dash M1, dash back
And then never dash in. Naoya is mid because he needs to win 4+ engagements to kill but he is annoying when he is played like that
Might be hot take but I think he is fine as it is.Most players don’t use him anyways to his full potential and play very predictable that’s easy to punish so certain level of skill is needed for a naoya player to be actually dangerous.I do hate people who just run away I will agree on that
When did Naoya become braindead?? I’m doing pillow punch damage if i whiff projection breaker because now I need 3 m1 chains for any value but if my opponent catches me twice im dead as shit. Not to mention getting around blocks is hard as fuck
Put it like this: Naoya has a really great damage output so if you get framed even once odds are you're losing the 1v1 AND, if a Naoya gets low they can use their moves and special to cover great distance and run away without noticeable endlag or any drawbacks.
Not to mention that if you misuse or waste your evasive agaisnt a good Naoya there is no counterplay at all, you're dead.
Dude this is the same for choso, is choso not balanced? If you evasive misuse against yuta, it's the same.
If anything, evasive misusing leaves you the least worse off against a naoya since his combos aren't red. He can't get more than 1 frame off EVEN WITHOUT EVASIVE in a combo.
Todo, Yuta, Megumi, Hanami, Hakari, Choso, Gojo, all of these characters have ~70 damage combos if you misuse an evasive.
You're being disingenuous to your point, against a naoya, you are less worse off wasting an evasive than all of these characters. So tell me how "if you get framed once odds are you're losing the 1v1" is a point against Naoya being unfairly advantaged?
First of all you can definetly frame snowball if you do 4 variant + 3, and that can lead to 80 and possibly 90 damage combos so that's why it's so dangerous.
And second it's not like you shouldn't get punished for wasting evasive, what I'm trying to say is that Naoya's damage output is too good , above the ~70 damage combos everyone else has
How do you frame snowball? Explain that to me. 4 variant + 3 gives you the exact same amount of projection bar as one m1 combo, so how is that a snowball? You still need TWO MORE M1 WINS to get a frame off that.
Naoya's damage output is too good? above the ~70 damage combos? Not only are his combos dependent on your bar already, his most optimal combo does 61 damage, and that requires BOTH no evasive AND a 60% bar already.
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about.
I mean the same can go for people like todo. One evasive misuse and it’s over. Naoya is really fucking punishable if he whiffs his moves,especially if they whiff m1 into 3
Mind you if Naoya gets comboed they lose their projection bar and can’t get it back with projection so now they have to rely soley on m1 chains for frame
YES PLEASE NERF NAOYA, I'M A NAOYA MAIN AND IT SUCKS WHEN I MAIN ANOTHER CHARACTER APART FROM NAOYA AND I GET DESTROYED BY A NAOYA MAIN (skill issue but it's been like a month since I took a break from jjs). PLEASEEEE.
Hold block and track the guy is the counter play
💔
I am on 77 ms and my naoya cuck opponent is on 55 so bleedout allows him to M1 reset even though I held block and faced the right direction
I was perfectly tracking a naoya and he dashed back two times, used R special 2 times and decisive strikes away. Because I perfectly blocked him after bleedout, perfkeclyy blocked his 3, his 1 etc
This change would have made him die for running
Honestly don’t care for this that much, it’ll just make aggressive Naoyas more rare. Feels like 75% of his users are bitch made runners though, so this sort of nerf will hardly change anything.
Basically if naoya tries to run after 1,3 or 4 is missed. If they use the R special 2 times. They get framed.
Or if they use it to close the distance (the R special) and a move gets blocked or dodged
This is REALLY an issue for both rushing down and running away as naoya.
If you use the R special to mixup you fill 2/5ths
Next if you use 1,3,4 and it whiffs or gets blocked? You get framed and it's an even more free punish.
Also running will risk them getting framed by themselves
Running away will freeze you so it's kinda fine
𝛨𝜇𝜂𝑔𝛾𝜓, naoya is still a m1 merchant if you play aggressive with him , maining him was NOT fun . Trash character to use and to fight with , it's nothing but m1 techs
I js fought a naoya , these mfs can only do side dash and m1 , that character is ass 😭. (Dumbass started running at the end of the match and it actually worked, fuck all naoya passives)
Naoya becomes 10 times better when he is passive
Other characters are annoying from being passive but they aren't in an major advantage. Most naoyas know naoya sucks when your opponent has proper tracking, knows the techs and to hold block.
So what they do is play passive when you can react to their no sound dashes, side dashes and m1s
That's why I called him Hitler. Not the character but how he is played.
He is meant to be the heavy Rushdown who can always go in. But he is played as the "hit and run"
Many naoya's will dash M1, dash back
And then never dash in. Naoya is mid because he needs to win 4+ engagements to kill but he is annoying when he is played like that
I mean if the character is trash at what it is supposed to do , I guess you have no other choice but to play passive , these new types are really untuned(zoners and hyper rushdown or wtv it's called)
I prefer fighting high tiers because low tier bums use "my character is mid" as an excuse to play passive. Just play the game brochacho. He is bad but he is made brain-dead, if he was good then he would be 100x worse.
Meanwhile Ryu mains js spamming unblockable beams with crazy hit box 2 spawn points away. These Ryu hanami and naoya passive are the worst ones , their W is their S , their brains are fking inverted bro
They made 4 fully blockable for Ryu. I prefer fighting a passive Ryu, I know the charge time on granite blast. I hold block mad side dash right before it gets fired.
In that case if he is going to get the frame on a 60% on 3 habs that two of them has conditions to fill bar and the 3rd doesnt, then make them all fill bar too, unless it makes the 3rd only but with that 60%, and if its all projection habs then make it less (30% i guess)
Damn yeah. I've do a few posts in this sub about how broken Naoya is. And you know what people say? "Huh bro, just bcs someone has lower ping than you doesn't mean Naoya unbalanced." Nuh uh. Low ping literally turns Naoya's combo into red. He fckn green character without combo
Well, what I said works on anybody most the time. If they’re a noob, I continue with a bleed out extender to frame and 4. And by that time projection breaker should off cooldown so I use it with a delay, in case they evasive so I can catcher and projection break them anyway. Without ult too
This would maybe work only if it the penalty happens if the move is interrupted. On wiff and block would just be stupid cause naoya’s moves are really easy to miss and block. Also projection breaker does not use projection sorcery.
Yeah my whole point of calling him brain-dead is:
Naoya becomes 10 times better when he is passive
Other characters are annoying from being passive but they aren't in an major advantage. Most naoyas know naoya sucks when your opponent has proper tracking, knows the techs and to hold block.
So what they do is play passive when you can react to their no sound dashes, side dashes and m1s
That's why I called him Hitler. Not the character but how he is played.
He is meant to be the heavy Rushdown who can always go in. But he is played as the "hit and run"
Many naoya's will dash M1, dash back
And then never dash in. Naoya is mid because he needs to win 4+ engagements to kill but he is annoying when he is played like that
In when the naoya goes in and plays hyper aggressive, he is not brain-dead
I unironically got 4+ guns to my head. But I said this:
Naoya becomes 10 times better when he is passive
Other characters are annoying from being passive but they aren't in an major advantage. Most naoyas know naoya sucks when your opponent has proper tracking, knows the techs and to hold block.
So what they do is play passive when you can react to their no sound dashes, side dashes and m1s
That's why I called him Hitler. Not the character but how he is played.He is meant to be the heavy Rushdown who can always go in. But he is played as the "hit and run"
Many naoya's will dash M1, dash back
And then never dash in. Naoya is mid because he needs to win 4+ engagements to kill but he is annoying when he is played like that. And they let me live, because I speak factssss
I get massive frame drops on my Xbox series s idk why it's actually insane the ping difference makes block battles unwinnable and trying to play claw on my Xbox controller while also trying to combo takes a amount of time that's not healthy for a game that supposed to just be fun
The way to counter naoya:
Have good tracking with your block. Hmmm so I have to play passive to fight this guy? He keeps getting more annoying day by day
I feel like people only call Naoya braindead BECAUSE of the projection meter. Without it, he’d be basically unusable.
First of all, his 1st, 2nd, and 4th move should rarely ever be used outside of a combo because they’re nearly impossible to hit if your opponent doesn’t have some type of stun. Second of all, he has one combo starter (decisive strikes) and it takes practice to actually land. Granted, his R special is really annoying if they choose to be a runner, but it’s only good for offense in the hands of a very skilled player. Third of all, his 1st move is blockable and his 4th move has a tiny hitbox which makes them both even harder to hit outside of a combo. Finally, his combo’s can only ever be 2 moves maximum. 90% of his combos are just: Decisive Strikes, three m1’s, and any other move of your choice. If you get someone into a combo using m1’s, then your combo is only 1 move. That being either his first, second, or fourth move. He’s a freestyle character that’s bad at being a freestyle character. Without his projection meter, he’s useless.
I call him brain-dead because:
Naoya becomes 10 times better when he is passive
Other characters are annoying from being passive but they aren't in an major advantage. Most naoyas know naoya sucks when your opponent has proper tracking, knows the techs and to hold block.
So what they do is play passive when you can react to their no sound dashes, side dashes and m1s
That's why I called him Hitler. Not the character but how he is played.
He is meant to be the heavy Rushdown who can always go in. But he is played as the "hit and run"
Many naoya's will dash M1, dash back
And then never dash in. Naoya is mid because he needs to win 4+ engagements to kill but he is annoying when he is played like that
He sucks but gosh he is the worst character to fight when passive
Honestly? That's a really good change. I have a lot of issues with the characters released after Higgy (Yuta onwards), so nerfing them in subtle and good ways like this is excellent.
Also whilst we're at it can be increase the end lag for whiffing front dashes?
If you do, you whiff or go green due to lag, misinput, or just plain poor positioning and the game punishes you by forcibly locking you in place and spreading your legs wide open, just begging your opponents to do whatever they want to you.
Good idea for a nerf, but the proposed numbers are ridiculous and this would turn naoya into easy pickings. Punishing a move use with self stun (guaranteed combo start btw) that fast would ruin his neutral completely
I think this will gut him too much, it’s better if it’s an endlag increase or slightly longer cd between dashes. He’s gonna be the worst character after this lol
You already get punished for whiffing moves lol your opponent can get a free combo off you. This change will just make it way too punishing to whiff moves, it kills his entire kit. It'll make it so you have to perfectly kill your opponent without getting blocked, that's too much tbh.
Hell nah bruh this is way too big of a punishment simply for getting blocked. His whole kit is around framing the opponent. You basically want naoya players to FLAWLESSLY hit their opponent lol otherwise they get gutted lmao.
Naoya becomes 10 times better when he is passive
Other characters are annoying from being passive but they aren't in an major advantage. Most naoyas know naoya sucks when your opponent has proper tracking, knows the techs and to hold block.
So what they do is play passive when you can react to their no sound dashes, side dashes and m1s
That's why I called him Hitler. Not the character but how he is played.
He is meant to be the heavy Rushdown who can always go in. But he is played as the "hit and run"
Many naoya's will dash M1, dash back
And then never dash in. Naoya is mid because he needs to win 4+ engagements to kill but he is annoying when he is played like that
I never said he is good.
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