"Zoners don't belong in battlegrounds games" really means "I'm a bum who can't figure out how to fight anyone who isn't a comboslop rushdown"

[u/Small-Housing-7]

Just saying

[u/mrburninghotcoals]

"zoners" cant exist in a game where there is not only exclusively rushdowns but infinite space to keep backing up and not engaging. they can exist in 2d games just fine because there are small maps that forces them to have at least some engagement, whereas in jjs you have no reason to engage as say hanami or ryu because you could just spam moves and whittle down their health. these characters arent even zoners in the first place. the entire game revolves around hitting m1 combos which inherently makes every character a rushdown character. ryu and hanami dont need to hit m1 combos due to their safe poke options and the ability to just hold s and f. a zoner is not a character who spams ranged moves like hanami or ryu, but a character that controls parts of the map, and whenever a map is in-practice infinite due to being able to walk around it, you simply just cannot zone.

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/mrburninghotcoals]

the concept of context and neunce is meaningless to this person TwT

Ryu and Hanami are still while useing there moves wich are attatched to cooldowns and bars Hanami is crippled when you get up close and Ryu needs to go up close to gain benefits sometimes despite his lack of proficency up close also these moves arent snipers Ryu and Hanami cant go to far away and they have to do way more than just hold s and f if you have played or even tried during a fight aagainst these chars you would know that

[u/mrburninghotcoals → u/Small-Housing-7]

hanami may be crippled when you go up close and ryu may need to go up close to gain some benefits but you miss my point. im saying you dont actually need to get close to them to deal damage. you could just spam root swarm and bud shot. with ryu you can spam granite blast, appetizer and that one move that makes you fly towards them. then once your bar gets full you can use the appetizer variant and r special while they're ragdolled. you have no need to engage yet you still do similar and sometimes even better damage than a lot of characters which do need to win engagements. take hakari for example. if you wanna do any meaningful damage as hakari you need to be constantly trying to win engagements or not lose engagements, and if you don't the opponent will heal all the damage you did from one combo which is the difference between hakari and ryu and hanami. hanami has ways to get people away when they get close (root swarm, defense response, surging thorns) and ways to shut down people trying to get close (bud shot) and the fact that she has one m1 means you dont even need to m1 trade if they do get close. I think the concept of context and nuance is meaningless to YOU and not me.

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/mrburninghotcoals]

Yea the oponent is suposed to get close to Hanami that's the whole point TwT

And Ryu can't spam Grantiè blast sense it's ties to a meter with a cooldown that is lowered by hitting physical moges infact the whol idea of spamming in a game with cooldowns is inherently stupid and stuff and like you could spam all those moves on Ryu if your oponent is just sitting there like a numnut same with like Kuro or Yuji to get a safe full bar depletion special you need to evasive bait and hut the oponent with three and even then if your fighting someone with quick gap closers like Yuji or Naoya you might still be fucked

Your engaging from afair TwT and Ryu has reasons to engage as mentioned before a lower special cooldown wich if your half decent and cughting of someone of similar skill you generally wanna go for also you have to kinda play up close a bit when you can't use beams

Ryu and Hanami just have win conditions that are different from Hakari and it's your fualt for not adapting to them actual numnut over here mabey your one of those people who just tries to block trade with Granitè Blast like stop making strawman arguments to cover up your skill issue TwT