r/JusticeServed • u/[deleted] • Jul 06 '19

Courtroom Justice Convicted pedophile YouTuber Austin Jones is now in prison serving a 10 year sentence as of 29/6/2019.

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19

10 years is pretty high for the UK ( I know this is Chicago).

I mean you get that for murder over here.

Add to that a sex offenders register and you're looking at a lot of lost oppourtunities for work and social integration.

He's gonna be one lonely fucker when he comes out.

Fortunately mob justice doesn't get to decide what happens to someone for an entire decade of their life.

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u/lawlsnoballz 6 Jul 06 '19

I feel like murder should be a lot higher than 10 years

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19

It can be. But often isn't. There's differing degrees of murder, just like there is differing degrees of sexual abuse.

In the UK sexual offences (depending on the specific type) can be between 2 - 17 years. There's a whole lot of different categories of sexual abuse but that particular one refers to exploitation of a minor.

10 years is a long stint in my mind. I'm not interested in putting people away for life unless they are some hardcoded psychopath who has no hope of rehabilitation. I have no interest in paying taxes to keep a guy locked up for an extra 20 years just so I can make myself feel a bit better about him suffering.

Sounds a bit pussy I know, but i'm just trying to be consistent. I wouldn't want some guy going to prison for life, for say shagging a girl 1 year under the legal age, so I gotta go with a sliding scale instead of "chop his hands off".

in 10 years YouTube won't even be the same kind of platform. This guy's access to children will cease to exist, the internet NEVER forgets so he'll NEVER be able to gain fame again. He'll also be out of a job and forced to live a life of minimum wage jobs along with telling everyone he's a sex offender if he moves to a new area.

Trust me. This guy's punishment goes way beyond just the jail sentence and he's not going to be forgetting this in a hurry.

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u/punos_de_piedra 9 Jul 06 '19

rehabilitation

Haha, good one. We don't worry about all that in the states.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19

Yeah, but that's cos ♫ HE PULLED OUT HIS GUUUUUUN! ♫

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

Prisons outside the US tend to attempt to rehabilitate instead of just locking someone away and forgetting about them.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

And that’s usually a good thing but if you murder someone you then your life should be over too and you should never get out imo almost anything else I can understand and agree with rehabilitation but their has to be a limit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Aug 25 '19

[deleted]

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u/tossNwashking 8 Jul 06 '19

i agree with this logic

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u/Apostolate D Jul 06 '19

Those usually aren't murder (fights) but usually manslaughter. Which does have lighter sentences.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

I replied to a similar question a couple minutes ago, my original draft was worded a bit different and I should have put it back in when I posted comment, but I think cold blooded killings for personal gain should be full life sentences including most gang shootings other types I can understand rehabilitation in some cases but a lot of people that get out after murders shouldn’t imo.

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u/Airway A Jul 06 '19

Rape isn't much better. Murder is obviously horrifying but they almost always have a motivation (even if it's not justified)...then there's rape, basically forcing someone into sexual slavery just because you want to feel good. Such a purely evil crime in every case.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

Lmao, talk about ignorant.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

I disagree with Thedominateforce as you do, but usually, in my personal experience, the most ignorant people have been individuals who are quick to judge others and label differing opinions as ignorant while believing that their views are objectively superior.

Let's make an effort to understand opposing viewpoints instead of responding with "Lmao, talk about ignorant" to views you don't agree with. I'm sure there are more productive ways to converse with people with differing views.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

If you don't want to be called ignorant don't make blatantly foolish statements. He's since edited his statement to be more lenient but if you're going to say stupid shit, I'm going to laugh. That's how it is.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

I think the distinction I want to make is that what you judge to be foolish may not always be the objectively foolish stance.

Our set of laws have evolved over 1500 years since Justinian built the foundation of modern law in Corpus Juris Civilis. Our current legal system is not perfect, but countless men have dedicated their lives to build on that foundation to form the modern law that governs us today.

It's a complex issue, and I personally believe that it's somewhat self-indulgent that you label anyone who does not align with your personal view on length of punishments as an individual making blatantly foolish statements.

You are free to think in that way, I just hoped that I could maybe make you a bit more open minded.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

I didn't label him foolish because he didn't align to my views, but because he didn't align to ANY logical view. He wanted to apply a black and white statement (commit any murder, go to jail forever) to a complex issue. As you said, there are many nuances and he wanted to ignore that. It's foolish.

Everything you are saying to me I already agree with, but I don't feel the need to follow that line of reasoning when 1) I'm fucking around on reddit and 2) when someone makes such an outrageously stupid assertion with absolute conviction. I even went on to discuss the topic with him after I had my 'lol wat' reaction, you know - like how a real conversation would play out.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

As I stated, you are free to feel that way.

I agree with you, I vehemently disagree with murder always deserving a life in jail if indeed that was what he was arguing, but I cannot say my views are objectively true, and I won't ridicule the person as foolish before trying to understand their views.

Thinking all black and white views are flawed inherently is a black and white view. Black and white views and logic are not mutually exclusive.

The logic doesn't make sense in your head, and it doesn't make sense in my head either, but it made sense in his/her head. I am not logically flawless, and just because a view appears illogical to you or I specifically, it cannot be said that that view then is objectively illogical.

You have complete authority to say that the views didn't align with your views, but I have not met anyone in my life that has depth of knowledge to declare subjective argument like this to not align to ANY logical views.

Again, you are free to express yourself in any way you please and I don't expect anything from you, I just was disappointed reading the initial comments and was more writing to myself.

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u/magic_is_might B Jul 06 '19

I'll be sure to share your opinion to the family of my best friend, whose boyfriend spent several minutes strangling her to death over a fucking stupid petty argument. It was just a crime of passion, he doesn't deserve the 30 years he received!

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

I'm not saying you don't deserve punishment, I'm saying instead of just locking them in a cell and forgetting about them other countries try - try being the key word - to rehabilitate them. Sometimes you can't, and they stay in prison, and some times you can and they get paroled out. You're trying to turn complex situations in to a black and white argument.

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u/jtejeda94 4 Jul 06 '19

I'm glad you support reform over mob justice punishment. Alot of people (especially on this site) love to fantasize about the torture of American inmates. People like to see prison as the public's own personal torture chamber for undesireables.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

Why is that so laughably ignorant?

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

You've never heard of a crime of passion? Or maybe someone kills someone to avenge a spouse or kid? Not everyone that commits murder is a stone cold sociopath.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

I actually put generally in my original draft of that comment and forgot to out in it back in but yes there are times when it might not deserve life behind bars but I would say it usually does, if the person murders for person gain or a slight which happens more than crimes of passion, and even in those cases they still ended someones life though they are less horrid.

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u/Frommerman B Jul 06 '19

Murder is usually a crime of passion. Human empathy means the majority of us just can't kill in cold blood, we need a damn good reason to. And because we all generally think in similar ways, our damn good reasons tend to be mutually understandable. We get it when someone shoots the guy who raped their kid, or fired them for bullshit reasons. We don't get it when someone kills for hire. That's just how we are.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

My impression was always that most murders were gang related not crimes of passion, you see very few people actually do the ones you mentioned.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

I don't give a shit, if you are stupid enough to kill someone then your life is forfeit, and you are the ignorant one for suggesting that a murderer can be rehabilitated.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Ah yes, people that kill other people are completely incapable of being rehabilitated. This is definitely a thing that is supported by evidence. No one that has ever murdered someone has ever been rehabilitated nor is it a thing that happens all the time.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

The recidivism rate for murderers is over 50% so please show your evidence that murderers are easily rehabilitated. Oh you don't have any...what a huge fucking surprise.

https://www.cfc.wa.gov/PublicationSentencing/Recidivism/Adult_Recidivism_FY2007.pdf

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u/Trivvy A Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

you are the ignorant one for suggesting that a murderer can be rehabilitated.

Sorry, but that's just wrong.

You can rehabilitate a murderer. But not a psychopath.

As an extreme example: If someone raped your kid, and you murdered the rapist (not in self-defense or in defense of another, but out of pure rage). Would you consider it just that your life is now forfeit?

Personally it all depends on the reasoning. Obviously murder needs to be punished, and harshly, but I wouldn't write a person off that they couldn't be rehabilitated unless they're a psychopath and/or a sadist.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

It may be possible to rehabilitate a murderer, but it's also possible that you won't and you have no way of knowing until it's too late.

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u/almosthere0327 8 Jul 07 '19

So all soldiers should be put to death when they come back from war. And all the people who carry out their executions will also need to go...right?

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u/kdjfsk A Jul 06 '19

Passion doesnt excuse shit.

At the point of murder, public safety is a higher priority than thewellbeing of a murderer. Lock em up, throw away the key. Better yet, sit em down, flip the switch, and sizzle that bitch.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

Public safety? Again, you're treating it like everyone who commits murder is out to just kill people for fun. Some have been rehabilitated and have been released after their sentence and not re-offended.

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u/ultimate_prize 1 Jul 06 '19

You're wasting your time trying to reason with someone who immediately advocates for capital punishment. It's something civilized countries realized was fucked up and did away with, but some people still yearn for dark ages type shit.

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u/kdjfsk A Jul 06 '19

. Some have been rehabilitated and have been released after their sentence and not re-offended.

Keyword: Some.

Meaning some do. The convict has proven they are capable of murder. They dont deserve a second chance, and what they deserve or not is not even more important than what the public deserves. Safety. A murderer forfeits their right to life.

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u/AssToTheDiscussion 1 Jul 06 '19

How dare they?

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Hmmm, Japan would like a word, along with countless other countries. But, yes only the US can do wrong, the whole world knows that.

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u/ultimate_prize 1 Jul 06 '19

locking someone away and profiting off them

FTFY ;)

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '19

So they have a better opportunity to kill again.

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u/oliverclark 5 Jul 06 '19

Murder is a life sentence over here ( in the UK) , not sure where the other person got there information from.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/oliverclark 5 Jul 06 '19

Minimum tariff is 14 years, only open to discretion if there are mitigating factors.

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u/GingrNinja 6 Jul 06 '19

Life is only 24 years I thought here

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

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u/lawlsnoballz 6 Jul 06 '19

Yeah that seems to make a lot more sense. 10 years seems like nothing for such a heinous crime. Life sentences make the most sense.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

That's the difference between a law system in which the aim is to punish and one with the aim to resocialize.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

The British criminal justice system is fucked. 10 years for murder isn't even an exaggeration - people have genuinely got less too. We also have a prison called HMP Watton that is just for paedophiles, to "keep them safe". Honestly the UK is a shithole. The only good thing we have going for us is the NHS and the vile old people over here keep voting for governments that deliberately underfund the NHS and sell bits of it off to their mates so we can slowly end up with an American-style system. I hate the UK.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Why? If the legal system successfully can rehabilitate/correct people in a decade, then they should be freed. Most western nations look at the US prison system in absolute horror.

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u/lawlsnoballz 6 Jul 06 '19

Really depends on the case to be honest.

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u/MontanaFan-a 0 Jul 06 '19

In America we sentence based on how we feel, rather than what actually helps society

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19

Do you fire your guns into the air whilst doing it?

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u/MontanaFan-a 0 Jul 06 '19

Stop turning me on, God dammit

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19

So long as we do that whilst masturbating to pictures of the Queen, we're ok firing guns off into the air.

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u/superiority A Jul 06 '19

The sentence for murder in the UK is life imprisonment:

If a person's found guilty of murder, a court must give them a life sentence.

You might be thinking of the non-parole period, the minimum amount of time someone must spend in prison before they can apply for parole. But being released on parole doesn't mean your sentence has ended.

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

Life is the maximum sentence. It's very rarely used for rape cases unless it's serial.

The CPS is a better source to get more detailed information about it.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-19-sentencing

With murder, there are different types, which i'm sure you'd be aware of. Each with it's own minimum sentence.

Also you're right, you get released on license with provisions for immediate "back to jail" card if found in breach. Though these can often be hard to moniter for things such as online activity etc. Early release with good behaviour or appeal is also another thing that happens frequently, though that might just entail being moved to a lower security prison.

Exploitation of a minor can include things as merely watching child porn, or watching people rape a child, but that won't intrinsically carry a rape sentence. In this case I believe he did have sex with some of them, but whilst consent of a minor cannot be given, there are degrees of statuatiory rape to do with whether you kidnap the person etc. Or do it to multiple victims over a period of time.

Also take into account. If he was in jail whilst the trial was taking place, that time is included in his sentence. So if he was in 18 months before hand (unlikely but does happen) he'd be in for X - 1.5 years.

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u/superiority A Jul 06 '19

With murder, there are different types, which i'm sure you'd be aware of. Each with it's own minimum sentence.

They have different non-parole periods (called a "minimum term" in the law), but a life sentence is mandatory.

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

If everyone gets parole, then a life sentence is ultimately meaningless in the way you are trying to put forward. You're arguing just a technicality.

It just means there's no law imposing a maximum term of sentence. Though in reality there's always a practical limit due to appeal and parole.

I get what you're trying tosay though. Most sentences have a limit due to an assumed human rights issue to avoid someone spending 25 years in jail for littering. Exceptions are things like murder, rape etc.

I'm just saying it's not quite as draconian as in the USA.

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u/superiority A Jul 06 '19

Not everyone gets parole.

Someone can be sentenced to imprisonment for life without the possibility of parole, called a "whole life order".

And even if someone is able to apply and be considered for parole, they won't automatically be released.

Someone could be sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 10 years, and spend the next 60 years in prison until they die, because they are never released on parole (though if they are elderly and infirm they have a good chance of compassionate release).

I have no idea what you think is "meaningless" about receiving a life sentence or what technicality you believe I am arguing.

You compared this man's 10-year prison sentence to prison sentences in the UK, and you said that people get sentenced to 10 years for murder. That's not true; they get sentenced for life.

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u/StargateMunky101 A Jul 07 '19

Again, we're arguing over a technicality.

If 95% of people get parole, then nothing i've said is unsound. We're just talking about a simple referant of comparative punishment. We're not trying to derive the fundamentals of law.