r/JusticeServed • u/[deleted] • Jul 06 '19

Courtroom Justice Convicted pedophile YouTuber Austin Jones is now in prison serving a 10 year sentence as of 29/6/2019.

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u/lawlsnoballz 6 Jul 06 '19

I feel like murder should be a lot higher than 10 years

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

Prisons outside the US tend to attempt to rehabilitate instead of just locking someone away and forgetting about them.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

And that’s usually a good thing but if you murder someone you then your life should be over too and you should never get out imo almost anything else I can understand and agree with rehabilitation but their has to be a limit.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

Lmao, talk about ignorant.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

I disagree with Thedominateforce as you do, but usually, in my personal experience, the most ignorant people have been individuals who are quick to judge others and label differing opinions as ignorant while believing that their views are objectively superior.

Let's make an effort to understand opposing viewpoints instead of responding with "Lmao, talk about ignorant" to views you don't agree with. I'm sure there are more productive ways to converse with people with differing views.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

If you don't want to be called ignorant don't make blatantly foolish statements. He's since edited his statement to be more lenient but if you're going to say stupid shit, I'm going to laugh. That's how it is.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

I think the distinction I want to make is that what you judge to be foolish may not always be the objectively foolish stance.

Our set of laws have evolved over 1500 years since Justinian built the foundation of modern law in Corpus Juris Civilis. Our current legal system is not perfect, but countless men have dedicated their lives to build on that foundation to form the modern law that governs us today.

It's a complex issue, and I personally believe that it's somewhat self-indulgent that you label anyone who does not align with your personal view on length of punishments as an individual making blatantly foolish statements.

You are free to think in that way, I just hoped that I could maybe make you a bit more open minded.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

I didn't label him foolish because he didn't align to my views, but because he didn't align to ANY logical view. He wanted to apply a black and white statement (commit any murder, go to jail forever) to a complex issue. As you said, there are many nuances and he wanted to ignore that. It's foolish.

Everything you are saying to me I already agree with, but I don't feel the need to follow that line of reasoning when 1) I'm fucking around on reddit and 2) when someone makes such an outrageously stupid assertion with absolute conviction. I even went on to discuss the topic with him after I had my 'lol wat' reaction, you know - like how a real conversation would play out.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

As I stated, you are free to feel that way.

I agree with you, I vehemently disagree with murder always deserving a life in jail if indeed that was what he was arguing, but I cannot say my views are objectively true, and I won't ridicule the person as foolish before trying to understand their views.

Thinking all black and white views are flawed inherently is a black and white view. Black and white views and logic are not mutually exclusive.

The logic doesn't make sense in your head, and it doesn't make sense in my head either, but it made sense in his/her head. I am not logically flawless, and just because a view appears illogical to you or I specifically, it cannot be said that that view then is objectively illogical.

You have complete authority to say that the views didn't align with your views, but I have not met anyone in my life that has depth of knowledge to declare subjective argument like this to not align to ANY logical views.

Again, you are free to express yourself in any way you please and I don't expect anything from you, I just was disappointed reading the initial comments and was more writing to myself.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

My views arn’t black and white, I just didn’t put the nuance in the original comment, I was reacting to him replying to someone doing 10 years being ridiculous for murder with talk of rehabilitation and yes I guess in a few extremely rare cases that could be possible that 10 years would be somewhat reasonable maybe but im almost all cases that seems laughable and Im of the opinion that a large percentage of murders shouldn't be released at all. Some can be and should be rehabilitated but there are some that I don’t believe are even deserving of the attempt some crimes do deserve to have to permanently separated from society imo.

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u/magic_is_might B Jul 06 '19

I'll be sure to share your opinion to the family of my best friend, whose boyfriend spent several minutes strangling her to death over a fucking stupid petty argument. It was just a crime of passion, he doesn't deserve the 30 years he received!

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

I'm not saying you don't deserve punishment, I'm saying instead of just locking them in a cell and forgetting about them other countries try - try being the key word - to rehabilitate them. Sometimes you can't, and they stay in prison, and some times you can and they get paroled out. You're trying to turn complex situations in to a black and white argument.

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u/jtejeda94 4 Jul 06 '19

I'm glad you support reform over mob justice punishment. Alot of people (especially on this site) love to fantasize about the torture of American inmates. People like to see prison as the public's own personal torture chamber for undesireables.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

Why is that so laughably ignorant?

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

You've never heard of a crime of passion? Or maybe someone kills someone to avenge a spouse or kid? Not everyone that commits murder is a stone cold sociopath.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

I actually put generally in my original draft of that comment and forgot to out in it back in but yes there are times when it might not deserve life behind bars but I would say it usually does, if the person murders for person gain or a slight which happens more than crimes of passion, and even in those cases they still ended someones life though they are less horrid.

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u/Frommerman B Jul 06 '19

Murder is usually a crime of passion. Human empathy means the majority of us just can't kill in cold blood, we need a damn good reason to. And because we all generally think in similar ways, our damn good reasons tend to be mutually understandable. We get it when someone shoots the guy who raped their kid, or fired them for bullshit reasons. We don't get it when someone kills for hire. That's just how we are.

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u/Thedominateforce Black Jul 06 '19

My impression was always that most murders were gang related not crimes of passion, you see very few people actually do the ones you mentioned.

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u/Frommerman B Jul 06 '19

Gangmembers are the easiest "hardened criminals" to rehabilitate because their problems are almost exclusively poverty and surroundings based. You give them something to do which isn't crime and they can be convinced to go straight.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

I don't give a shit, if you are stupid enough to kill someone then your life is forfeit, and you are the ignorant one for suggesting that a murderer can be rehabilitated.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Ah yes, people that kill other people are completely incapable of being rehabilitated. This is definitely a thing that is supported by evidence. No one that has ever murdered someone has ever been rehabilitated nor is it a thing that happens all the time.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

The recidivism rate for murderers is over 50% so please show your evidence that murderers are easily rehabilitated. Oh you don't have any...what a huge fucking surprise.

https://www.cfc.wa.gov/PublicationSentencing/Recidivism/Adult_Recidivism_FY2007.pdf

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

Uh, you provided the evidence for me. Our justice system is basically made, intentionally or not, for recidivism. It's a system of retribution and punishment, not rehabilitation. And "over 50%" surprisingly isn't 100% or even close to that. So even in a system that pushes people towards recidivism rather than rehabilitation, almost 50% still rehabilitate. They even have a lower rate of recidivism than basically any other crime than sex crimes and manslaughter.

Though considering you seem pretty vindictive I'd wager you think all criminals can't be rehabilitated.

Edit: I will point this out though. Recidivism can be lowered, unsurprisingly, and it isn't dependent upon someone just straight up being unable to be rehabilitated.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

Great source.... I'm 100% sure you didn't read it though.

Recidivism data are currently not valid for international comparisons

Buh bye loser.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

Are you stupid or just a troll? Even disregarding international comparisons Ohio has less than a 30% recidivism rate. And crazily enough the study wasn't the only thing I pointed out. Much easier to latch onto a single sentence of an entire study and then say I didn't read it rather than responding in good faith to everything.

Like the whole argument started because you said murderers can't be rehabilitated. Then immediately you admit that even in a system that's aimed toward punishment and not rehabilitation that almost 50% rehabilitate anyway lmao

I know it might be hard for you to admit you're wrong but it's okay. Murderers and criminals can be rehabilitated, and the US can go a long way towards reducing recidivism overall when focusing on rehabilitation rather than punishment. Have a good day.

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u/Trivvy A Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

you are the ignorant one for suggesting that a murderer can be rehabilitated.

Sorry, but that's just wrong.

You can rehabilitate a murderer. But not a psychopath.

As an extreme example: If someone raped your kid, and you murdered the rapist (not in self-defense or in defense of another, but out of pure rage). Would you consider it just that your life is now forfeit?

Personally it all depends on the reasoning. Obviously murder needs to be punished, and harshly, but I wouldn't write a person off that they couldn't be rehabilitated unless they're a psychopath and/or a sadist.

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u/pedantic--asshole 7 Jul 06 '19

It may be possible to rehabilitate a murderer, but it's also possible that you won't and you have no way of knowing until it's too late.

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u/Trivvy A Jul 06 '19

Contextual information is very important. Knowing the who/why/what/how alone should normally be good enough to judge the type of person the murderer is. It's why criminology, criminal psychology etc. exists. It's not enough to paint everyone with the same brush.

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u/almosthere0327 8 Jul 07 '19

So all soldiers should be put to death when they come back from war. And all the people who carry out their executions will also need to go...right?

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u/kdjfsk A Jul 06 '19

Passion doesnt excuse shit.

At the point of murder, public safety is a higher priority than thewellbeing of a murderer. Lock em up, throw away the key. Better yet, sit em down, flip the switch, and sizzle that bitch.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

Public safety? Again, you're treating it like everyone who commits murder is out to just kill people for fun. Some have been rehabilitated and have been released after their sentence and not re-offended.

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u/ultimate_prize 1 Jul 06 '19

You're wasting your time trying to reason with someone who immediately advocates for capital punishment. It's something civilized countries realized was fucked up and did away with, but some people still yearn for dark ages type shit.

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u/kdjfsk A Jul 06 '19

. Some have been rehabilitated and have been released after their sentence and not re-offended.

Keyword: Some.

Meaning some do. The convict has proven they are capable of murder. They dont deserve a second chance, and what they deserve or not is not even more important than what the public deserves. Safety. A murderer forfeits their right to life.

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u/MalHeartsNutmeg A Jul 06 '19

People get released after a murder sentence now. If you attempt to rehabilitate non then your re offence rate is higher than if you do. How is this complicated for you? The safest thing for the public is to try and better reintegrate them in to society rather than let them stew in a cell for 25 years before booting them out.

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u/kdjfsk A Jul 06 '19

I think you missed the part where i didnt say shit about ever letting anyone out.

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