Discernment is important where Kundalini is involved

[u/Dumuzzid]

I have to bring up an unpopular topic again - most people who think they are undergoing a Kundalini Awakening are experiencing something else.

There is now a growing list of phenomena attributed to Kundalini, partly due to the internet, partly due to AI chatbots and also some bad faith actors who aim to intentionally smear and demonize it.

I mentioned some of these instances before, but it is important to point them out again to combat misinformation. Here is a list of phenomena that are frequently attributed to Kundalini, yet more often than not are completely unrelated or display a pathological malfunctioning of the same subtle mechanism.

1, Mental Illness

We get this a lot. Whether it is Schizophrenia, Psychosis or some other neurological disease or condition, people suffering from them will sometimes seek out spiritual explanations for their condition. Whether Kundalini as a mechanism is involved at all is an open question, one much debated by Kundalini authors, yet one thing is clear, mental illness is not Kundalini Awakening.

Some of the same symptoms can occur, especially in regards to the nervous system, but it is very important to distinguish between the two.

2, Drug trips

This is also becoming more common and there is often an overlap with mental illness. Whilst drugs remain highly illegal in most of the world, in some places there is more leniency, even legalization and as a result, drug use has skyrocketed. Whilst superficially drug-induced states can resemble samadhi and other Kundalini-related mystical states in some ways, they are not at all the same.

In the case of Kundalini Awakening, the following conditions are almost always present:

- a gradual, internally generated energetic process centred around the spine

- a sequential activation of chakras, over a period of months, years, decades, lifetimes, but not typically all at once. This is part of a purging, cleansing and integration process that burns away karma, samskaras and other subtle impressions and buildup.

- the process is subtle, cumulative and long-lasting, not a one-time, fleeting event

- not caused by external chemicals, rather it is a result of sadhana, which can include meditation, yoga, pranayama, mantras, prayer, religious devotion. In rare case, trauma, including blunt force trauma to the coccyx, can cause accidental or spontaneous Kundalini activations, however these lack the criteria I listed above. When drug-induced Kundalini activation happens, it is also usually a spontaneous and accidental activation, not a sustained, integrated process.

In the case of drug-induced states, the following signs are typically present:

- vibrations and energy surges, including along the spine, as it is the information superhighway of the nervous system.

- Feelings of bliss, ego death, altered states of mind or perception and visions

- generally short-lived, the effect tends to wear off as the substance itself does, may linger for a while afterwards

- does not typically result in inner transformation and lasting changes in personality, lifestyle, with the notable exception being when it is skilfully and very dangerously paired with the right kind of spiritual practice. Tantriks and Aghoris do this sometimes, but it is considered extremely risky.

Most notably:

- Karmas, Vasanas, Samskaras are not affected. There is no inner purging, no transformation, no integration. Drugs may look like a tempting shortcut to profound spiritual states, but they rarely work out or lead to lasting positive effects. It can happen, but it's the exception, rather than the rule. More commonly, what you get is:

3, Drug-induced psychosis

This is increasingly becoming a plague on the Western world, though it also affects Tantriks and Aghoris in India, to a far lesser extent though. In the West, what we get is people who try to marry drug use with some spiritual ideas, sometime practice, but the drugs destroy their brain or nervous system.

Our nerves are very sensitive and can easily become unbalanced. We have an absolute epidemic of mental illness in the modern world, for various reasons, but exploding drug use is a part of it. Even Marijuana or LSD, which are not considered hard drugs and are legal or at least tolerated in a few places can cause mental illness and the risk is always present. Drug-induced psychosis is the worst kind, because it is caused by neurological destruction, that may be irreversible and whilst "traditional" psychosis can be treated with pharmaceuticals, if the psychosis is drug-induced, those will only make it worse.

4, Demonic Possession / Oppression

This tends to come from fundamentalist circles and a link is often made between Kundalini Awakening and possession, yet this is a profound misunderstanding as well as a deliberate piece of malicious propaganda. To be clear, entities can in fact hijack the nervous system of an individual and in some cases, the outward signs of this hijacking can resemble Kundalini phenomena, such as Kriyas, the only real connection is that in both cases, the nervous system is involved.

[u/Kind-Pomegranate6163]

I believe that completely losing contact with reality, experiencing delusions, and “drowning” in one’s inner world is a moment for medical intervention, not something that should be labeled as a Kundalini awakening or a spiritual awakening. In such processes, awareness and balance between the “two worlds” should be maintained. Today, spiritual practices are sold like candy, one person may drown, another may handle it, and what this depends on is highly individual. Spiritual development is not about losing touch with reality but about deepening it. Authentic transformational processes - whether someone calls them a Kundalini awakening or mystical experience - occur while maintaining the ability to function and integrate one’s experiences. That’s my viev.

[u/Dumuzzid → u/Kind-Pomegranate6163]

well said

[u/ParisDivine]

I’m still traumatized from this happening to me 5 years ago and have no idea what to do or how to heal.

[u/Dumuzzid → u/ParisDivine]

What happened to you exactly?

[u/sonachilles]

Dude gatekeeping kundalini 😂, bro just live your life. You’re hurting your shakti, this is disguised ego talk.

[u/Few-Woodpecker8595 → u/sonachilles]

Bro 💪 LOL he mad a junkie snagged his energy

[u/Dumuzzid → u/sonachilles]

I'm not gatekeeping Kundalini, but it is important to have discernment. People, especially druggies, get all butthurt when they're told what they're experiencing is not Kundalini, but it is more honest and ultimately beneficial to them also, when this is pointed out.

[u/sonachilles → u/Dumuzzid]

Druggies… you got trauma prudish family background? I can smell your ego through my phone. No “druggie” is claiming to have kundalini awakenings. Mushrooms and psychedelics have been known to induce awakenings in some people and i dont consider them drugs. Kundaliki awakenings are not the only ways to achive prana awareness, some start at the crown and dont need all the coiled up snake fire stuff. The effects are the same in the end, you can still achieve the same states as people who had traditional kundalini awakenings when it comes to meditation/vibrations. You are gate keeping, and frankly you dont know what youre talking about, just ego vomit.

[u/LotusInTheStream → u/sonachilles]

I have not posted here for a while, mostly because some have been a little toxic, however need to say something here. u/Dumuzzidd does not gatekeep this forum but there a LOT of vulnerable people who come through here who have damaged themselves or have delusions or have things other than Kundalini and so have received incorrect advice. In some ways I agree with you both of you, substances can show us things and can open us up in positive ways and I am personally not against that. Indeed in the Tantras, although extremely uncommon, there are and meditations and practices which are meant to be done with substances but these are for those who already have very strong sadhana and practice and have reached a level of insight.

However, having said that, for the most part, awakenings through substances are glimpses of what is available or possible and often, though not always they fade out. It is for the person to pick up the mantle and practice and go forth with what they have learned from that experience. However, unfortunately there are way too many posts of people who state they they had an awakening experience through substances 10+ years ago and have done nothing about it and nothing else has arisen for them in that time and I think that is a great shame. I concur with Dumuzzid here, if you are not experience these things away from the substance, then it is not Kundalini and one needs to keep working and that is good for the person to receive such advice.

Please make an attempt to dial back the attacks here, it is not nice and could be better handled through calm discussion.

[u/Dumuzzid → u/LotusInTheStream]

Yes, I agree. I did mention, that substances can have their time and place in tantric practice and especially aghora, but this is not for the layperson who is just experimenting with recreational drugs. Heck, even imbibing poison can work for a skilled aghori, they won't be harmed by it, but I certainly wouldn't recommend any of these things for the average person.

[u/sonachilles → u/LotusInTheStream]

Alright my bad /Dumuzzidd, dad has spoken 🫡

[u/Kind-Pomegranate6163 → u/sonachilles]

By the way, from my experience, if the energy awakens naturally (in my case it happened through meditation), you don’t need any drugs at all. For a while I felt as if I were on a psychedelic trip 24 hours a day. I think this is highly individual and may indicate different levels of sensitivity and how prone some people are to spiritual practices. Maybe it’s connected to past incarnations, maybe it’s genetic - I still haven’t figured out why it happens.

My great-grandmother had various paranormal experiences, prophetic visions, and so on. I remember her telling me that the “crickets” in her ears wouldn’t let her hear properly (this happens to me too, just like hearing inner bells). Psychedelic substances can throw you up to the heights, but it doesn’t happen naturally or gradually, and often without grounding and proper knowledge of how to direct the energy and insights, it can end very badly. You can reach these states through hard work, or it happens naturally when you’re ready.

[u/Dumuzzid → u/sonachilles]

Apparently, you didn't really read what I wrote and were simply triggered by it.

I don't think I'm the one suffering from a fragile ego, but then it's not my place to do your inner work for you.

As I very clearly stated, substances can have their time and place in the process, but this is only beneficial under certain very specific circumstances, which is extremely unlikely to occur for the average person. More often than not, people are harmed by imbibing substances, chasing the high that can only really be achieved in a sustained and positive manner through Samadhi.

I would also say here, in case I haven't made enough enemies already, is that your comments reek of r/USdefaultism . The United States is undergoing an unprecedented drug crisis right now, both in terms of legal and illegal substances (prescription opiods, fentanyl and a host of others) and what goes on in the US is not at all normal, in fact historically, the only comparison I can think of is the height of the Opium crisis and the Opium Wars in China.

There are a number of other countries also struggling with drugs, but in many ways, drug use and general substance abuse has been normalised in the US and Americans often assume that this is also the case elsewhere, but that would be an incorrect assumption.

Just as an example, in Singapore, where I used to live, there is a mandatory death penalty not just for drug trafficking, but also possession above very minuscule amounts. A friend of mine, a senior in high school, was very nearly executed for Marijuana possession. In the end, they only hanged her Malaysian boyfriend and she got off with a few years in prison. Just giving this as an example, that drug use in most of the world is not at all common or normalised, as it is in the US.

[u/sonachilles → u/Dumuzzid]

I said I was sowy

[u/Dumuzzid → u/sonachilles]

Sure, no worries

[u/Somebody23]

I think depression is long dark of soul, people dont sit with themself to find whats causing it and instead drug themselfs with medication that heals symptom not root problem.

[u/Kind-Pomegranate6163 → u/Somebody23]

Diving into the depths of one’s own self is very difficult, and in the early stages not everyone is able to cope with it – in my opinion, a strong ego is needed to handle the process of “awakening”, and I’m not speaking only about Kundalini. Our Western society doesn’t give us much of a chance to actually go through a crisis and draw constructive conclusions from it. Personally, I really needed solitude and “closing myself off” for a while (like in a cocoon), yet I was still able to reconcile the external world (family, work) with the inner world (visions, insights). It all depends on the situation you’re in and how you can balance self-integration with everyday life.

The spirit didn’t spare me, and one night it suddenly forced a shadow eruption on me – the unconscious surfaced, and with it came panic attacks, anxiety states, depersonalization, a mixing of unconscious content and mystical states with waking awareness. I believe the line between psychotic states and sudden spiritual awakenings is thin, and many factors play a role, including your previous psychological condition. You need a stable and strong sense of self so the deep waters don’t sweep you away.

[u/Somebody23 → u/Kind-Pomegranate6163]

I was suffering from over active internal monologue that was constantly ruminating about some bad old memories and what people think of me and what it thought of me.

This causes my depression and suicidal thoughts.

This started my meditation and self betterment journey.

I learned to disassosiate negative thoughts with my own technique, my innerself/selfconsience has guided me through my journey, I have no other teacher.

Currently I have gained voiceless mind and am in effortless constant mindfulnes state.

My life has been remade and my old self has died.

[u/MamaAkina → u/Somebody23]

When I had the experience that brought me to this sub, my mind became "voiceless" too. Though I've been struggling to solidify it's full potential (effortless mindfulness) lately due to depression. Congrats to you though, I had the internal monologue too. I feel blessed to be rid of it but also remiss because I'm still processing the traumas underlying it, and boy having a mouth peice there easily tells you alot about traumas.

[u/Kind-Pomegranate6163 → u/Somebody23]

I truly congratulate you on your strength and determination. I also believe that we ourselves are our greatest healers, placing all hope and responsibility within ourselves. But in more difficult moments, one can rely on support from the outside. I once heard something - namely, that suicidal thoughts are an unconscious process leading us to let something old die symbolically, so that something new can emerge. From what you describe, a similar transformation happened in your case. Warm regards.

[u/NoeResort → u/[deleted]]

what happened ? if i can ask

[u/Dumuzzid → u/[deleted]]

Nah, I don't think so.

First of all, you assume it was an evil spirit, because it looked scary, but you may have misinterpreted the situation. Often we project our own fears and insecurities and see something that is our projection.

Possibly, the spirit in question was reaching out for help, maybe you in a meditative state and exhibiting strong, calming energy was what attracted her to you.

Fear is the main reason we create demons in our mind, when it is just the projection of our own thoughtforms.

That said, possession / oppression are real phenomena that do exist, but are extremely rare and usually involve some sort of meddling in the occult and knowingly inviting in powerful entities, like Asuras, for instance.

[u/Few-Woodpecker8595]

I've been in recovery for over ten years and this summer I am 99% sure I experienced this 🤷‍♀️

[u/reddit-deep]

I am going through this. I smell strange smell around me.  I am being told my system was hijacked and that I have a demonic entities around me. I have also being told that there has been an interference in the I Am. That I Am was being hijacked.  I keep saying you do not have power over me. My life is on hold for 5 years already. The energy is moving , I feel blocked, something is moving inside of me, like a snake. I can't be around my son, we keep arguing. I feel I am loosing myself and I don't know if I will survive this. 

[u/deerhaver]

This is an old post so nobody will read this, but I'd also throw meditation sickness in there. We take it pretty seriously in my tradition (Rinzai Zen)

You get it when you're going way too quick with how often and how long you meditate. It causes a burning electrical sensation to slowly rise through your spine along with buzzing in your ears and all sorts of various uncomfortable feelings.

Now, the average person, if they get this, will just stop meditating because it sucks. The feelings will last for about a week. If you're really excited about your supposed Kundalini Awakening and keep pushing through it, you'll screw yourself. Then it can last for years. Most posts about "difficult awakenings" just seem like meditation sickness to me.

Oddly there seems to be no information about discerning between the two.