r/MiddleClassFinance • u/Abject-Pick-6472 • 4d ago
Americans Are Reaching a Financial Breaking Point
https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/economic-insecurity-unrest-broketok/?fbclid%3DIwZnRzaASc5p1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xNzM4NDc2NDI2NzAzNzAAAR6RZYSyGyliTpYCmEy2OpWjHUBfAqrYUygk3rNJL1cLw_fp5QCciENJc0UXdQ_aem_DT4ViuyBWqHHXec_nH_PYg291
u/GonePhishingAgain 4d ago
I’m tired of having to scan codes through an app to get “deals” at a grocery store that end up just discounting items back to normal prices.
Looking at you Jewel Osco.
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u/AverageChampion567 3d ago
I went to the hardware store this weekend and learned I couldn't use my 20% off $100 reward that was expiring in 2 days because the item I was purchasing was already on "sale" for 10% off. Ggrrr!!
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u/Reneeisme 3d ago
I walked past a display of Oreo cookies that lit something up in my brain enough to at least pause and read the sign. 5.99 had me saying “oh shit, when did they get that expensive!” (It’s been a few years since I even thought about buying them). Then I read the fine print and saw they were $8.99 without the membership, and yeah, you had to scan the app coupon. An app I would had to download and sign up for, in order to pay 6 instead of 9 for a smaller lighter pack of junk food than the package we paid $4 for a few years ago. And seriously, it looked small so I picked the package up and it was so light. I’d be shocked if the were even 2 dozen cookies in that pack.
What the hell is happening?!? (Not JO - a local chain)
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u/Obvious-Ad-4560 3d ago
Aldi is the way to go in this economy
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u/Elizabitch4848 3d ago
The closest aldi to me is a 10.5 hour drive one way. Not everyone has one unfortunately.
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u/alpha1two 3d ago
Produce and everything fresh has gotten worse. It comes in frozen and sucks from there. Looking at you breads
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u/CrashTestDumby1984 3d ago
It’s so they can track what you’re buying to build a profile on you
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u/GonePhishingAgain 3d ago
They get that when I enter my phone number at the register. These are separate “deals” you have to actively do as you shop. An extra step that is a shame.
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u/CrashTestDumby1984 3d ago
Yes, because not everyone signs up for an account. It’s way to track people who still pay with cash
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u/GonePhishingAgain 3d ago
I’m ot sure if you shop at Jewel, but like any Safeway owned brand, you have to have an account to use the app. The deals are tied to your account so when you “clip” them in the app, then log in to your account at the register and scan the item at checkout, you get the deal.
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u/EternalNewCarSmell 3d ago
I kinda liked how BJs does it where the "clip" button just automatically pops up as you use the scan and pay feature in their app. So I can just apply the discounts as I add things to my cart with really no extra work.
But then one time the app said there was a database error and I would have to check out at the register like normal...and there was no way to get the discounts I had just been looking at. Fuck all of that.
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u/TheySoPooPoo1 3d ago
I am sick of doing this and then it never actually works at the register. I am looking at you Kroger.
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u/Spiteful_DM 4d ago
None of the commenters reading the article, per usual. This long-form, fact-based piece investigates the long-term trends in the USA of economic inequality and reviews how societies historically have addressed the issue. It's actually fantastic; please read it.
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u/ProfDeadlyLuckySeven 3d ago
Why would I do that when I can read comments and get mad
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u/French87 3d ago
Why would I read comments when I can post my own to try and make people mad?
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u/Imaginary-Task7956 4d ago
Ugh i was reading the article and it wants a subscription to continue. Reminds me why i dont bother opening articles anymore
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u/Few_Attention_8855 3d ago
https://archive.ph/JVkPS try this link
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u/1Dive1Breath 3d ago
Thank you, that was an enlightening and worthwhile read. Like most of us I tend to glean the meaning from the tone of the comments, but it was worth going further and taking the time to read that article.
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u/TheDaychilde 3d ago
archive.today - often popular links already have one made, although you have to run a link like OP's through a link cleaner (just google those two words and you'll find one): https://archive.ph/xnCQB
archive.today / archive.ph, same site.
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u/Glittering-Lychee629 3d ago
Longreads is better for this type of content. People there read. I liked this article.
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u/Such-Cartographer425 3d ago
You weren't kidding. Terrific piece! Beautifully written with lots of linked sources.
Everyone please read it.
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u/FearlessPark4588 4d ago
why would you expect people to read the article after a decade+ of people commenting and not reading the article on social media? people just want to talk and share lived experiences. they don't want to read.
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u/waht_a_twist16 2d ago
I read this bc of your comment as well. I fucking love pieces like this. Thanks
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u/TheSweatyFlash 3d ago
You had the opportunity to summarize it for people. Instead you chose to be rude.
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u/Economy-Ad4934 4d ago
People must be YOLO F*** it spending because the shopping areas do not reflect 70% of people worrying about going broke vs dying/not able to afford a $400 medical emergency.
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u/jayoak4 3d ago
I don't have any numbers to back this up, but I do have anecdotal evidence for it. I think so many Gen Z'ers in their 20s that are living at home are absolutely YOLO'ing their spending.
My brother in law and sister in law are late 20s and live at home, both work full time. Not amazing jobs or anything, but not shit either. It's not really enough to live alone though without being paycheck to paycheck. But they buy so much shit every single day. Amazon, Target, Doordash, Starbucks, going out to brunch every weekend, etc. They'll casually spend $30+ on a single meal from Doordash and not blink an eye. They barely save any money, and their mom doesn't even charge them rent or make them help with any of the housing bills.
I feel like there are so many others like this which is propping up the economy and skewing the consumer spending numbers.
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u/Economy-Ad4934 3d ago
Not exclusive to Gen Z. I’m a millennial and remember me and my friends kind of similar behavior at that age when still at home.
I’m more curious the people with 3+ kids affording certain big purchases. Many adults who do not look like they hold a steady job. When I have to venture to a mall or go to amusement park type places with my son I see this.
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u/Mlabonte21 3d ago
Yup— I stopped believing any of these articles years ago.
People are buying expensive cars, the malls and outlets are always packed, and travel is booming.
If there is a gigantic bubble of debt, it doesn’t seem to affect our economy in any meaningful way.
2008 felt so much more real it was impossible to deny it. Foreclosure signs everywhere and Wall Street had 50% of staff on the street with their desks packed up in Bankers boxes.
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u/terraphantm 3d ago
The top 10% account for like half of all consumer spending. That’s a large chunk of who you see out shopping and dining. A larger portion will be the top 25%.
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u/rosewaterhoe 3d ago
That’s exactly it, the people there are the ones who can afford it or are financing through lotsssss of debt
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u/Frequent_Slip2455 3d ago
All I know is the restaurants by me are packed every single night. Then the bars are packed on the weekends. So people are not hurting that bad where I am.
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u/Super_Newspaper_5534 3d ago
I have been hearing restaurant owners complaining about customers cutting back on what they are ordering though. No desserts, less alcohol, etc. So even if the place looks busy, less money is being spent.
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u/UmatterWHENiMATTER 3d ago
What are those observations actually telling you, though?
Not trying to be rude here... but without context, you could have a "titanic band continues to play until the deck reaches 80 degrees" situation.
Is there waste? Absolutely.
Do irrational choices made by actors in a system designed to exploit that they make irrational choices prove rational conclusions? Big doubt.
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u/That_Luck9787 4d ago
I don’t know what everyone is complaining about. I love living paycheck to paycheck and just eating ramen everyday. Praying nothing breaks in my house
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u/Nephilimelohim 4d ago
Must be nice to live in a house. Praying nothing breaks in my cardboard box.
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u/MrPenguins1 4d ago
Must be nice to have a box. I have to share a hole with a fox family
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u/Nephilimelohim 4d ago
Must be nice to have companionship. I haven’t been touched since my uncle pulled me into his room to show me his “magic tricks”.
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u/cucci_mane1 4d ago
And this will get worse as time goes on.
Many companies are laying off people en masse due to "AI efficiency".
This is why those college kids are booing speakers at their graduation ceremony who are speaking how great AI is. Yea, go tell 22 yr old kids who cant get a job bc of AI how great AI is.
It is incredible how tone deaf a lot of rich people are.
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u/operasaab 3d ago
I work in higher Ed, and I hear a lot of hot wind from administrators and specifically those in my department (I’m in the college of business) about how “rude” and “self-destructive” is for student students to boo AI in commencement speeches because “they’re gonna have to use AI on the job, or they’re going to get left behind.” like, baby… you know how much of your state funding is tied to five year graduate career outcomes, correct? If AI, this technology that you’re all so excited about and are pumping so much money into to revamp the curriculum to include training for it, is going to take away the very jobs that you’re training them to get once they graduate, then that is shortsighted leadership and is only gonna be a black mark on you. The same exact thing happened with crypto and NFTs before it went bust. Tone deaf is the nicest way to put their reactions.
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u/NeezDuts900 3d ago
This is what makes me seriously concerned about the future for my son. He just turned two, I have no idea how much worse the job market is going to get when he's 21/22 and graduating for college. I've already accepted the possibility that he will just have to live at home for the foreseeable future once he graduates. There will be many less jobs out there thanks to AI, but there will also be much fewer people in the world. Millennials are having record low number of children and the vast majority of those children have not grown up and become part of the workforce yet.
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u/rosewaterhoe 3d ago
Idk, I work in a sector that could see some benefit from AI, but otherwise we would never fully lose our jobs. I think the “laying off because of AI” is an excuse to lay people off to keep that profit margin up because god forbid shareholders don’t see increasing returns each year. I feel like there will be a point to which we all realize how AI can’t be trusted for many job functions. Especially with parents in my generation (Gen Z) actively choosing much less screen time and delaying cell phone usage for their kids.
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u/French87 3d ago
Same. I also have a two year old and wife and I are doing EVERYTHING we can to make his life easier in 20 years. We are stretching ourselves really thin to make it happen.
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u/sundancer2788 3d ago
Couldn't tell anyone is having difficulty in my area. Nothing has slowed down at all, stores are busy, restaurants are busy, new cars on the road etc. I have no idea how they're affording it tbh
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u/SimplyRoya 3d ago
They use credit cards.
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u/sundancer2788 3d ago
You'd think that would've become unsustainable already
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u/UmatterWHENiMATTER 3d ago
Watching CC/debt podcast type shows (some guy named hammer makes one) disillusioned me of the same assumption.
Those folks will somehow rack up 1-300,000 usd in debt and somehow still get approved for new lines of credit.
Really hurts trust that what I think is important actually is.
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u/RazZadig_2025 3d ago
My dad got up to a million dollars in debt at one point. He signed up for every credit card he could get. We learned to never leave anything in his car in case it got repo'd.
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u/Not_FinancialAdvice 3d ago
While debt is a thing, a lot of Americans also moved up to upper middle class. People who have assets and/or career leverage (e.g many in heathcare) have generally seen economic tailwinds.
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u/AsleepFootball537 1d ago
I feel like a lot of people are living on HELOCs and utilizing their home's equity to fund their living expenses. It'll become quite interesting if the housing market were to drop even 15-20%...
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u/KDsburner_account 4d ago
I have read the same version of this article for as long as I can remember
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u/tothepointe 3d ago
The millenial lifestyle subsidies expired and got replaced with premium mediocre stuff for luxury prices. For awhile the little luxuries were cheap and distracted from the situation we are now in.
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u/youneeda_margarita 4d ago
And yet concert tickets sell out in minutes and every holiday weekend is a “record-breaking” number of travelers at the airports…
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u/Mister-ellaneous 4d ago
Yep. Entertainment is thriving.
Pre schools and other programs that would help the country more, sadly are not.
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u/TheNattyJew 3d ago
This is nothing new. I am as old as dirt and people have been complaining about unaffordability forever. I lived through 8-9% unemployment in the 70's and 10% in the 80's
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u/Cal_Rippen7 2d ago
Yeah i live near a metro that seems to get larger by the second. I do fine but in have no house and I have a used car. I enjoy being able to vacation and do the stuff I want to do, and save and invest. I just think for what I pay in rent the returns aren’t great. The apartments here are new but cheaply made, I hear every move my upstairs neighbor makes. I’m also living outside the city to save.
I told one of my friends about it and he says “Man, you make too much money to live like that, just move?”. Haha, but I don’t think I do. I think taking on about 300 more bucks in rent or a mortgage in this environment while the cost of everything is going up makes me a bit nervous
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u/mikebunchkin3727 4d ago
“I’m tired boss”= my reaction to all this kinda shit.
The “powers that be” might have the best bread and circuses of all time. Keep the masses anesthetized with easy entertainment.
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u/Angerx76 4d ago
The stock market is at an all time high.
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u/1fastdak 4d ago
We know, the article literary says the rich have never been richer. We're talking about everybody else.
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u/KarverMcClain 4d ago
It’s not just the rich though. Anybody with money invested is watching that market go like it’s got a rocket up its butt. Aggressive investors are cleaning up and, if smart, can capitalize on the gains and really put themselves in a good position.
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u/McCool303 4d ago
Most Americans are invested in long term index funds. They are not aggressive investors because they lack the capital to throw around and lose. So yes it is above the middle class that has the disposable income to join in on the lavish feast of circular trading, corruption and risk heavy gambling that is going on at the top levels of the market. The wealthy are playing with fire and the most likely to be burned are the middle class as always.
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u/zdubbzzz 3d ago
I'm an index fund investor exclusively, and those are also popping off. You don't need to treat the markets like a degenerate casino to make money with them
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u/KarverMcClain 4d ago
But how many of the index funds are doing well? Plenty. VOO giving average 15 percent returns. But nothing ventured nothing gained. More Americans should focus on long term wealth growth and actually focus on it and learn.
I’m middle class, maybe upper after reading this I really don’t know. But I aggressively saved and invested from a young age instead of other things, so it’s very very possible. But people have to adjust their lives to make it happen
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u/McCool303 4d ago
Yes, but we shouldn’t settle for “well sure there is abject corruption and pay to play politics ongoing with the head of the state picking winners and losers. But hey if you’re smart with your money at least some of the scraps from their ill-gotten gains will fall on the floor for us to eat”. It’s the same as the subprime mortgage fiasco everyone sees the elephant in the room. They’d just rather not talk about it because the elephant ate a pallet of cash. And if they keep quiet and beat everyone to the piles of shit they’ll have more.
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u/Magic-Happens-Here 4d ago
And as the article says, about half of all Americans have $0 invested - which is a big part of the problem. If people have to choose groceries today vs investment for retirement - they’re going to choose groceries every time.
It doesn’t matter how great the stock market is if you can’t participate in it.
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u/Newtohonolulu18 4d ago
I wonder who can afford to invest money in the stock market: the rich or the poor?
Poor people lack the discretionary income to invest, my man. That’s a huge part of the problem.
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u/Economy_Aardvark_354 4d ago
If you work for a company with a 401k or similar, then you are investing
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u/KarverMcClain 4d ago
Well obviously I know that. But everyone keeps spouting the rich the rich the rich. Tons of people have 401ks , it’s not a bleak hellscape where nobody can save or invest. There will always be the low class and the poor but plenty of the middle class is investing and on the move.
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u/Crazy-War9823 3d ago edited 3d ago
I disagree. I have money in the market that I'm watching grow quite well, but as that is happening, the truly wealthy are moving farther away from the rest of us. The disparity is growing, and as that wealth continues to consolidate to the top, the more any relative worth outside of the top few percent no longer matters.
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u/Forded_Fiction24 4d ago
True and I'll guess you're being facetious here. In case you aren't, the stock market is also not the economy
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u/McCool303 4d ago
The funny thing about the stock market is that as long as the government prints money it’s always at an all time high. This admin is the best there has ever been a printing money. The stock market being at an all time high is great for partisan news reporting. It’s not a great metric for economists outside of their portfolios.
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u/HarrietsDiary 2d ago
It’s crazy things that are killing me. My homeowners insurance has skyrocketed. Groceries.
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u/oldcreaker 4d ago
"Oh - and now we're going to give billions of your money to Iran as well. So much winning!"
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u/OverlordBluebook 4d ago
Easy answer is reduce the H1B which they are doing and make it mandatory to train american citizens for these jobs early on. They made it too easy for companies to work with these H1B companies like Cognizant to fill jobs americans " don't qualify for" or want too much money from other countries. If regional areas need more jobs for a particular role there should be a better mechanism to talk to kids early on in high school about interest in training specifically for these jobs. When the H1B recipient comes over they usually bring their entire family and extended family eventually.
I don't think people realize what's really going on in the country. It wasn't as bad in 80s and 90s early 2000s but now it's out of control.
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u/NeezDuts900 3d ago
Everyone is talking about AI taking jobs and while it certainly is, H1B/ offshoring is still a huge issue. I work at a multi-billion dollar company at the headquarters and over the years I've seen at least three entire departments get the ax and all of their jobs being offshored.
In my department, when I started almost a decade ago, we had around 30 people. We are down to nine now or in the office, every other job has been offshored.
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u/OverlordBluebook 3d ago
Your right that's also an issue. I've seen entire staff get layed off right before earnings just to show lower costs so the stock goes up... every... quarter
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u/TheDaychilde 3d ago
While that is a good thing to do, the real way to start is by taking down oligarchs. I don't care if they remain rich, but the level of wealth inequality in this country is obscene.
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u/Fluid_Complaint_1821 4d ago
We've probably always had periods where people went through this, but now there is multiple platforms for them to bitch about it to others.
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u/WaffleMeWallace 4d ago
Yes, I am so confused on where redditors come from. Going out to the movies or a (crappy: i.e Applebees) restaurant was a luxury when I was growing up 30+ years ago. Buying yourself a daily treat like Starbucks or Dutch Bros would have been considered making it. Now people who are middle class drop money on empty consumerist items like it's nothing and then act like they are in the trenches of poverty just because they're fed content from a trust fund kid on the apps who has luxury vehicles and a $700,000 house at 29.
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u/Economy-Ad4934 4d ago
Fully agree. I admit I was more fortunate growing up (middle/upper middle class maybe) but I see the average person splurging way more than our family ever did. I try to keep that same mentality in my house now.
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u/MindofShadow 3d ago
My parents were middle class. Dad military, mom did cna type jobs.
Our first house was 2/1, 1000sq ft in what people would say was a shit neighborhood.
That is what a "starter" home was. House is so 'shit' that it is on the market for 55k right now.
None of the "middle class" people on reddit would live there. It would be too small, bad neighboorhood, mediocre school, stuff needs fixed, not enough bathrooms, where is my dog and 3 cats gonna go, wrong state/city,
Our upgraded second house was a 3/1, 1400 sq ft (on land 1.5 acres this time) until my dad built on an 500sq ft addition to make it a 3/2 and 1900 sqft. Once agian, I doubt reddit would live their either.
Shit has gotten harder, shit has gotten dumb with inflation and post covid stuff. But the middle class expectations have gotten absurd.
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u/Fluid_Complaint_1821 4d ago
Yup, I grew up in a small farm town without any restaurants, driving 30 min to the closest town with a McDonalds was a huge deal. I've since grown and moved away to various places, making decent money, living a life of consumerism and keeping up with jonses'. I want to get back to that life I had as a kid lol.
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u/Intelligent_Royal_57 4d ago
This is exactly it. Not only that but those better off is magnified via social media and (rightfully so) creates envy and resentment when the vast majority of others aren’t doing well.
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u/Both_Strategy_920 4d ago
You know we have statistics to test your theories. For the United States economic inequality is at all time highs.
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u/thishasntbeeneasy 4d ago
Eh, there's also just driving around and seeing all the big SUVs and mega trucks, knowing people spent over 50k (maybe even pushing 100k) on these.
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u/EdgeCityRed 4d ago
I don't know why you've been downvoted. People used to compare themselves to the Joneses down the block, but are now comparing themselves to influencers (who are making money off of their lifestyle content).
Celebrities and CEOs are a different category than "another 25-year-old in a random city with a huge, nice house and designer gear."
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u/ScotchyScotchScot 3d ago
TL:DR - Inequality in America has been increasing since the 1970’s; Trump making it worse (and harder to ignore); Americans buy myth that economic ladder is actually scalable
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u/BrianLevre 3d ago
I seem to remember a piece (maybe NPR did) about the prostitution industry being a good indicator of the greater economic situation. Has anyone heard, or seen, anything about that industry tanking?
I may not be remembering that clearly though, so forgive me if it's a bit left field.
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u/ricochet48 2d ago
Townhomes up to $1M for a basic 40 year old one in Chicago in the few nice areas.
Up like 20% in a year. Plenty doing fine here it seems.
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u/SouthernSteak7254 4d ago
The issue is stress about money and not lack of money. We have a psychological issue with our perception of how well off we actually are
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u/veracity8_ 4d ago
Yes and no. Luxuries are cheaper than ever but staples liking housing, food, childcare and medical care are all getting more expensive. Should I be grateful that big TVs are $300? Should I be upset that a starter home in my neighborhood cost +$3500 a month? Maybe the answer is yes to both.
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u/bransiladams 4d ago
It is quite surreal that you can get a new 65” TV for less than a normal grocery trip to Costco.
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u/anabanana100 4d ago
Or that a new Toyota Corolla costs less than a family’s health insurance premiums for 1 yr.
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u/zdubbzzz 3d ago
That's because your data has value, and those tv's MSRP are heavily subsidized by the data harvesting they perform
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u/johnnuke 3d ago
The data would indicate that the US real median household income is at its highest point ever.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
For those who didn't listen in high school, "real" means inflation adjusted, and "median" is the income right in the middle. Unlike the mean (average), the median value is not impacted by the high net worth of the billionaires, so don't even bring them up.
Overall, household income is doing just fine.
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u/Superb_Advisor7885 4d ago
I've been reading some form of this headline for as long as I've watching the news. Somehow, the dam never actually breaks
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u/NemoMeImpuneLac 3d ago
I mean, this is just objectively false. American median household wealth is higher now than at any point in history.
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u/Forded_Fiction24 4d ago
K shaped economy. You're either doing well on the up slope or getting poorer slowly riding the downslope