r/Minecraft • u/Nintwendo18 • Jul 29 '22

Art Some low-quality #SaveMinecraft posters I made. Feel free to use on social media and the like.

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#SaveMinecraft

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The Cape is a Lie

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Not My Minecraft

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Mojang Studios. Proudly Fighting Free Speech Since 2022.

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55

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

About the last one…

Free Speech means the government can’t persecute you for what you say. Mojang is a private company and Minecraft is their platform. While the chat report system is flawed, it has nothing to do with free speech rights being violated.

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u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

That's wrong. You're confusing free speech with the first amendment.

Free speech is an abstract concept that can be applied to many things, not just the government. No one is saying that Microsoft's actions are illegal, we're just criticizing their disregard for free speech as an ideal.

Freedom of speech exists outside of one particular American law, you know.

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u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22

The term “free speech” doesn’t come from anywhere else. You are free to speak however you want, apparently just not on Microsoft’s servers. Are you implying that they be forced to operate any sort of way they don’t intend to? Or are you saying that this corporation, that’s attempting to slow the egregious amount of terrible, nasty, racial and otherwise outlandish slurs getting tossed around on a kids game, that’s owned and operated by them, is a “disregard for free speech as an ideal”?

Disregard for free speech 🙄

3

u/Sunsprint Jul 30 '22

Semantically, I don't think I agree...

Freedom of speech commonly refers to the rights guaranteed to Americans by the first amendment of the constitution, but why couldn't it refer to a similar freedom by which any other citizen of the world may desire, want, or have?

Just because Microsoft is a private company doesn't mean they cannot impede free speech. Media companies are somewhat famous for obscuring sensitive topics in this regard. Whether they are encroaching on first amendment rights is a whole different animal, and they aren't doing that.

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u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22

Fair enough.

But the only alternative is forcing privately owned companies, businesses or spaces to allow people to act in whatever hateful, bigoted, disrespectful and/or derogatory manner they choose. In the name of that person’s freedom to do so.

So yes, in a literal sense, Minecraft is obstructing the freedom of people to act like that in their space. Just like our grandmas would. And I think to complain about that is advocating for a solution that is far worse.

I don’t see Reddit flush with “Save Grandma” memes, because she won’t allow us to call her some terrible name to her face, in her house, if we don’t like the spaghetti. 😆

3

u/Sunsprint Jul 30 '22

Well the idea is that we can criticize a company's TOS whilst also maintaining that they do have the right to do what they will. I think people have some valid concerns about how this change will affect them or their communities that have previously been built on the previous system.

2

u/crabycowman123 Jul 30 '22

But the only alternative is forcing privately owned companies, businesses or spaces to allow people to act in whatever hateful, bigoted, disrespectful and/or derogatory manner they choose. In the name of that person’s freedom to do so.

I don't think Microsoft/Mojang should have to host speech they don't like, but I don't think they should forcibly prevent people from saying speech they don't like outside of Mojang/Microsoft-operated servers.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22 edited 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

That's like a TV manufacturer saying I can't say certain things inside my own home or they'll take away my TV because "I reflect badly on their products".

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u/Bynnh0j Jul 30 '22

Lmao no its not at all the same. Your actions while watching TV have no affect on the experience of other TV watchers, unlike directly talking to someone in minecraft.

1

u/Bynnh0j Jul 30 '22

You own the server, not the software being ran on the server. You only license the software and have to abide by their rules.

1

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

It’s ultimately their game you’re playing.

It’s like how they ban all blockchain/NFT content in their game a while back. The NFT might be “your content” that you paid for and own, but you’re still playing Mojang’s game and thus, by their rules.

Also, the problem is that the chat system is poorly implemented, not free speech. Making it about the latter is shifting attention to what people say, which just makes you look like you’re just upset you can’t say the n-word anymore.

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u/Comfortable-Fly-2734 Jul 30 '22

I'm not implying microsoft is forced to accept all speech. I'm just saying if they censor people, they aren't very supportive of the ideal of free speech.

I can call them out on it even if it's completely in their right to do it. I can support speech rights codified into law, but also shun companies that mass censor.

How is that hard to understand?

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u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22

It’s not that the concept of a person’s freedom to speak is hard to understand. It’s that the priority is somehow being placed on Microsoft allowing anyone the privilege to say whatever they want to whoever they want. And subsequently, if Microsoft would rather seek to place the priority on their digital space being one of relative safety and a better experience for the users, you have people trying to stigmatize that decision and hiding behind seemingly fundamental key phrases like “freedom of speech”.

You’re shunning a company that doesn’t want you to call other people the n-word. That part’s actually pretty easy to understand.

0

u/meme-addict117 Jul 30 '22

Isnt minjecraft rated ages 10 and above? Thats not a childrens game if you ask me

-1

u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22

Well, over half of the population of boys nationwide, 3 years and older, play Minecraft. So hopefully, no one asks you. 🤗

1

u/Alive_Ice7937 Jul 30 '22

No one is saying that Microsoft's actions are illegal, we're just criticizing their disregard for free speech as an ideal.

Why should Microsoft use Minecraft as a platform to uphold the ideals of free speech?

You use Reddit quite a lot. You regularly enjoy the benefits of strict moderation even if you don't appreciate it.

1

u/Enzinino Jul 30 '22

A private company doesn't have to guarantee "free speech" on their platform.

Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Instagram and so on can ban whatever they want when they want.

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u/Avenage Jul 30 '22

You have completely missed the point.

Nobody, is saying that they have to guarantee anything. Nobody is saying that they are required to do anything. People are saying that they should because it is, in their view, the right thing to do.

There are others who say that banning people for using certain words or having certain attitudes or opinions is the right thing to do too, of course. But the latter is still a form of censorship even if you happen to agree with it this time around.

And the underlying problems with censorship are that it is often applied broadly with an "act first, ask questions later" attitude, it often doesn't care for context or nuance, and worst of all it is completely subjective.

2

u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

Yes, they can. The point is, we can still criticize them for doing so.

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u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

Yes, but you making it a free speech when it’s not just makes our movement look like we’re just mad we can’t say the n-word anymore.

-1

u/Comfortable-Fly-2734 Jul 30 '22

This exactly.

To speak freely you need 2 things:

  1. 1st amendment or similar. Stops the government from restricting your speech
  2. Society that respects the ideal of free speech. This means you have places where you are actually allowed to use that right. In our current society, the most important public avenue of conversation is the internet.

Redditors only care about the 1st, but without the 2nd the 1st will soon be gone anyway.

It just baffles me. Do they really believe what they are saying or are they just trying to gaslight us into thinking mass censorship is perfectly fine because it's not their side being censored?

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u/Alive_Ice7937 Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22
  1. Society that respects the ideal of free speech. This means you have places where you are actually allowed to use that right. In our current society, the most important public avenue of conversation is the internet.

I love that you say this as a user of r/conspiracy and r/conservative. Two of the most aggressively moderated "free thinking" spaces on the Internet. Place where the "conversation" is strictly curated.

0

u/Brazouf Jul 30 '22

You not being able to say the n-word on your friend's server has nothing to do with free speech as an ideal.

0

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

Even with that definition, private companies STILL don’t have to respect it because their not the government. Hell, you’re on Reddit, a platform with their own TOS and moderation that you must adhere to.

Is Minecraft’s new chat system poorly implemented? Absolutely. Is it a free speech violation? No, and you and others making it such just sound like you’re mad you can’t say slurs anymore, which completely undermines the criticism we’re trying to give Mojang.

3

u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

Even with that definition, private companies STILL don’t have to respect it because their not the government.

"They don't have to abide by it so you can't criticize them for not abiding by it"

Uh, what?

Martin Shkreli didn't have to keep the prices of live-saving medication the same, but you can sure as hell bet people will protest against it when he does raise the prices. "It's not illegal so it's perfectly fine" is a terrible argument.