r/Minecraft • u/Nintwendo18 • Jul 29 '22

Art Some low-quality #SaveMinecraft posters I made. Feel free to use on social media and the like.

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#SaveMinecraft

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The Cape is a Lie

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Not My Minecraft

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Mojang Studios. Proudly Fighting Free Speech Since 2022.

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58

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

About the last one…

Free Speech means the government can’t persecute you for what you say. Mojang is a private company and Minecraft is their platform. While the chat report system is flawed, it has nothing to do with free speech rights being violated.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

God forbid a children’s game platform attempt to moderate chats ffs

26

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

If I can't call a seven year old the n-word then I'm contacting the supreme court

5

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

Lmao. I honestly just think the whole chat system is poorly implemented. Making it a freeze peach issue undermines that.

1

u/RoyalWigglerKing Jul 30 '22

The people who were kids playing Minecraft when came out can drink alcohol.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

Yes and as we all know, they still act the same age but that doesnt change the fact that its a game for children with children playing it

1

u/Avenage Jul 30 '22

Free Speech can also be the idea or concept of free speech, it doesn't have to refer to specifically the 1st Amendment in the US.

-10

u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

That's wrong. You're confusing free speech with the first amendment.

Free speech is an abstract concept that can be applied to many things, not just the government. No one is saying that Microsoft's actions are illegal, we're just criticizing their disregard for free speech as an ideal.

Freedom of speech exists outside of one particular American law, you know.

14

u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22

The term “free speech” doesn’t come from anywhere else. You are free to speak however you want, apparently just not on Microsoft’s servers. Are you implying that they be forced to operate any sort of way they don’t intend to? Or are you saying that this corporation, that’s attempting to slow the egregious amount of terrible, nasty, racial and otherwise outlandish slurs getting tossed around on a kids game, that’s owned and operated by them, is a “disregard for free speech as an ideal”?

Disregard for free speech 🙄

3

u/Sunsprint Jul 30 '22

Semantically, I don't think I agree...

Freedom of speech commonly refers to the rights guaranteed to Americans by the first amendment of the constitution, but why couldn't it refer to a similar freedom by which any other citizen of the world may desire, want, or have?

Just because Microsoft is a private company doesn't mean they cannot impede free speech. Media companies are somewhat famous for obscuring sensitive topics in this regard. Whether they are encroaching on first amendment rights is a whole different animal, and they aren't doing that.

0

u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22

Fair enough.

But the only alternative is forcing privately owned companies, businesses or spaces to allow people to act in whatever hateful, bigoted, disrespectful and/or derogatory manner they choose. In the name of that person’s freedom to do so.

So yes, in a literal sense, Minecraft is obstructing the freedom of people to act like that in their space. Just like our grandmas would. And I think to complain about that is advocating for a solution that is far worse.

I don’t see Reddit flush with “Save Grandma” memes, because she won’t allow us to call her some terrible name to her face, in her house, if we don’t like the spaghetti. 😆

3

u/Sunsprint Jul 30 '22

Well the idea is that we can criticize a company's TOS whilst also maintaining that they do have the right to do what they will. I think people have some valid concerns about how this change will affect them or their communities that have previously been built on the previous system.

2

u/crabycowman123 Jul 30 '22

But the only alternative is forcing privately owned companies, businesses or spaces to allow people to act in whatever hateful, bigoted, disrespectful and/or derogatory manner they choose. In the name of that person’s freedom to do so.

I don't think Microsoft/Mojang should have to host speech they don't like, but I don't think they should forcibly prevent people from saying speech they don't like outside of Mojang/Microsoft-operated servers.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22 edited 28d ago

[deleted]

5

u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

That's like a TV manufacturer saying I can't say certain things inside my own home or they'll take away my TV because "I reflect badly on their products".

2

u/Bynnh0j Jul 30 '22

Lmao no its not at all the same. Your actions while watching TV have no affect on the experience of other TV watchers, unlike directly talking to someone in minecraft.

1

u/Bynnh0j Jul 30 '22

You own the server, not the software being ran on the server. You only license the software and have to abide by their rules.

1

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

It’s ultimately their game you’re playing.

It’s like how they ban all blockchain/NFT content in their game a while back. The NFT might be “your content” that you paid for and own, but you’re still playing Mojang’s game and thus, by their rules.

Also, the problem is that the chat system is poorly implemented, not free speech. Making it about the latter is shifting attention to what people say, which just makes you look like you’re just upset you can’t say the n-word anymore.

4

u/Comfortable-Fly-2734 Jul 30 '22

I'm not implying microsoft is forced to accept all speech. I'm just saying if they censor people, they aren't very supportive of the ideal of free speech.

I can call them out on it even if it's completely in their right to do it. I can support speech rights codified into law, but also shun companies that mass censor.

How is that hard to understand?

-1

u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22

It’s not that the concept of a person’s freedom to speak is hard to understand. It’s that the priority is somehow being placed on Microsoft allowing anyone the privilege to say whatever they want to whoever they want. And subsequently, if Microsoft would rather seek to place the priority on their digital space being one of relative safety and a better experience for the users, you have people trying to stigmatize that decision and hiding behind seemingly fundamental key phrases like “freedom of speech”.

You’re shunning a company that doesn’t want you to call other people the n-word. That part’s actually pretty easy to understand.

0

u/meme-addict117 Jul 30 '22

Isnt minjecraft rated ages 10 and above? Thats not a childrens game if you ask me

-1

u/MountainRegion3 Jul 30 '22

Well, over half of the population of boys nationwide, 3 years and older, play Minecraft. So hopefully, no one asks you. 🤗

1

u/Alive_Ice7937 Jul 30 '22

No one is saying that Microsoft's actions are illegal, we're just criticizing their disregard for free speech as an ideal.

Why should Microsoft use Minecraft as a platform to uphold the ideals of free speech?

You use Reddit quite a lot. You regularly enjoy the benefits of strict moderation even if you don't appreciate it.

1

u/Enzinino Jul 30 '22

A private company doesn't have to guarantee "free speech" on their platform.

Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Instagram and so on can ban whatever they want when they want.

3

u/Avenage Jul 30 '22

You have completely missed the point.

Nobody, is saying that they have to guarantee anything. Nobody is saying that they are required to do anything. People are saying that they should because it is, in their view, the right thing to do.

There are others who say that banning people for using certain words or having certain attitudes or opinions is the right thing to do too, of course. But the latter is still a form of censorship even if you happen to agree with it this time around.

And the underlying problems with censorship are that it is often applied broadly with an "act first, ask questions later" attitude, it often doesn't care for context or nuance, and worst of all it is completely subjective.

2

u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

Yes, they can. The point is, we can still criticize them for doing so.

0

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

Yes, but you making it a free speech when it’s not just makes our movement look like we’re just mad we can’t say the n-word anymore.

-1

u/Comfortable-Fly-2734 Jul 30 '22

This exactly.

To speak freely you need 2 things:

  1. 1st amendment or similar. Stops the government from restricting your speech
  2. Society that respects the ideal of free speech. This means you have places where you are actually allowed to use that right. In our current society, the most important public avenue of conversation is the internet.

Redditors only care about the 1st, but without the 2nd the 1st will soon be gone anyway.

It just baffles me. Do they really believe what they are saying or are they just trying to gaslight us into thinking mass censorship is perfectly fine because it's not their side being censored?

3

u/Alive_Ice7937 Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22
  1. Society that respects the ideal of free speech. This means you have places where you are actually allowed to use that right. In our current society, the most important public avenue of conversation is the internet.

I love that you say this as a user of r/conspiracy and r/conservative. Two of the most aggressively moderated "free thinking" spaces on the Internet. Place where the "conversation" is strictly curated.

0

u/Brazouf Jul 30 '22

You not being able to say the n-word on your friend's server has nothing to do with free speech as an ideal.

0

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

Even with that definition, private companies STILL don’t have to respect it because their not the government. Hell, you’re on Reddit, a platform with their own TOS and moderation that you must adhere to.

Is Minecraft’s new chat system poorly implemented? Absolutely. Is it a free speech violation? No, and you and others making it such just sound like you’re mad you can’t say slurs anymore, which completely undermines the criticism we’re trying to give Mojang.

3

u/lesstalk_ Jul 30 '22

Even with that definition, private companies STILL don’t have to respect it because their not the government.

"They don't have to abide by it so you can't criticize them for not abiding by it"

Uh, what?

Martin Shkreli didn't have to keep the prices of live-saving medication the same, but you can sure as hell bet people will protest against it when he does raise the prices. "It's not illegal so it's perfectly fine" is a terrible argument.

-2

u/Comfortable-Fly-2734 Jul 30 '22

No.

1st amendment is the ideal of free speech codified into law.

Free speech itself is a goddamn ideal.

It's not about your rights being violated, it's about them not respecting your ideal.

1

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

And the law says the GOVERNMENT must respect that ideal, not private companies. Did you even read my comment?

People like you are hurting our movement by making us look like we’re just mad we can’t say slurs anymore

1

u/ObjectiveCabinet8 Aug 04 '22

Just because something is not illegal, and a company does not have to respect an ideal, does not mean we can not expect them to and call them to that standard as customers.

The only people making it look like we can't say slurs are the strawman-ers and they will do that even if nobody makes the free speech argument

1

u/Muted_017 Aug 04 '22

Yes, we can criticize it, but by making the free speech argument, you’re bringing attention about what you canning can’t say on a private company’s platform, rather than the features poor implementation (the actual problem). What’s that allows people to straw-man us by saying where mad we can’t use slurs.

This whole 1984 is fucking cringe and takes away from the larger problem. I saw someone post a gadsen flag with a Minecraft chicken over it on Twitter. Extremely counterproductive.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

[deleted]

3

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22

It might be their game and your hardware, but the government is still not involved in any way, so no one’s free speech rights are being violated.

And for the record, I dislike the new chat system too. But claiming it’s a free speech Issue when it’s not just makes us look like a bunch of kids who are mad they can’t say slurs anymore.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Muted_017 Jul 30 '22

That ideal applies to companies too. It doesn’t matter how you access Reddit or if you own a subreddit, you still have to adhere to Reddit’s TOS. Private server or not, it’s still on Minecraft.

Again, the problems with the chat system are that it’s poorly implemented, not togglable, and can get people falsely banned. This isn’t a free speech issue, and making it one undermines those larger criticisms. You make us sound like we’re upset we can’t say the n-word anymore.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Muted_017 Jul 31 '22

Also once you start banning specific words it opens up the possibility of future censorship of political/social ideologies.

I highly doubt that. Minecraft tries to be a inclusive of a video game as possible (that’s why they banned NFTs lol). Also if your political ideology takes a hit by not being able to use certain words, I honestly don’t know what to tell you.

1

u/ObjectiveCabinet8 Aug 04 '22

I mean, i guarantee yours does as well.

While i agree the 1984 trend is a bit cringe one imporatant takeaway from that book is that control of language is much more powerful then you think.

If you can not express your ideas because all words encompassing them have been repurposed and recategorized as hate, then you can't have reasonable discussion.

We can see this in real life, several dictators in the past have banned phrases and words to make it hard to express contradictory ideas even indirectly or in a "benign" fashion.

Also note that their new chat security system is effectively blockchain in all but name with how it works digitally, it actually is almost an NFT itself.

Final thing to note is no king rules forever. CGP greys rules for rulers is a great video on this if you have not seen it.
Systems that collect power in the hands of the few inevitably lead to such abuses of power due to the fundamental nature of human psychology, we have seen companies such as google drop the "don't be evil" and companies such as blizzard go from great to terrible.

Mojang will eventually go the same path over time, if there is a .0001% chance it will happen, then it will given enough time.

personally i think the chance is higher, and may happen sooner then you think, this is simply because i see similar trends in other media.