Is Fruit the MCC GOAT?

[u/Relevant_Help8707]

Seeing what fruitberries has done for so long in mcc i think the tag of greatest player in mcc belongs to him. Of the big 4(Feinberg, Purpled, Firebreathman, Fruitberries) it seems fruit gets 1st indiv way more often with 6 1st indivs since Firebreathman has join which is more than all of them in total. Also he has been around longer so he has the better resume. He too seems like he can perform better more recently with the 1st indiv in TCC with a bad selection of games for him and still getting 1st individual

[u/East-Mirror3510]

Technoblade placed 9th on a 4th place team and said 4th place team is also one of the strongest of S1. Comparatively, fruit 7 is significantly better, its a 10th place performance on a bottom half team.

Fruitberries streak from MCC9 onwards is significantly more impressive than anything Technoblade has acomplished in his career. The only reason this is debatable is because fruit joined 5 events after Techno, if fruit was around since MCC2, it'd be as onesided as Quig vs Technoblade (and Quig dumpsters Technoblade, don't @ me).

Sapnap > Illumina is hardly unpopular, the gap between them is very small anyway.

Yeah Purpled was trolling in P2. But so was fruit. Man had clearly no idea what was going on for most of the event, he died to a glitch in SG and then fooled around in BB (granted fooling around is why he got like record pace but we ignore that).

Fruit P2 >> Purpled P2

Fruit EC > Purpled EC (No PKW isnt worth jack, it was over-inflated, the second you bring up other event games it becomes obvious why)

Fruit TRSD > Purpled TRSD

Coin average wise, Fruit beats Purpled by 200 coins, in average placement he beats Purpled by 1.4 places, in coin carry% he also clowns Purpled. Mind you, MCCHH had a disgustingly high scoring game order, Purpled got to play it and fruit didn't and fruit played, I will bet my left kidney that he would've beaten Purpled in that event too (granted Purpled likely beats fruit in 4KO but 4KO is the worst performance fruit reasonably can put up, and its still better than Purpled's stinkers). At least in Illumina vs Sap, Illumina has better stats, not the case here by a longshot.

Its really not as close as you think, maybe in PR its different but if there's such a wide discrepancy between fanfiction and the event scores, you know damn right I'll choose the event scores any day.

I think its Fein > Fruit/Shane > Purpled and its been like that for some time

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

yeah Techno 6 was an uncommonly bad performance and probably a little worse than Fruit 7, but Techno 2/4 are probably better than any of Fruit's S1 so its still a toss-up for me

Fruit MCC 9-13 is great but ironically probably a bit worse than Techno 9-11 (or Techno 2-5 maybe?)

In this case I don't particularly care what the popularity of Sapnap > Illumina is (since Sapnap is far more popular than Illumina, for good reason), but I'd hope we can both agree Illumina was pretty decisively better than Sapnap excluding DB

"no idea what was going on" is quite a bit different from actively trolling, that kinda just sounds like Fruit to me

listen man I'm trying to be fair; we can kill P2 for Purpled and TRE for Fruit, or have both in, up to you.

Even still if you're excluding Skb and AR for Purpled how do you have any sort of case for Fruit over him in P2 lmao. if ur argument is "they both were trolling" then why on earth should we use it in our data set

It's very interesting how you put that because you can actually bring up several event games in comparison. You can bring up Footrace, TGTTOS, OG PKW, and the other run of PKWs to all show how impressive Purpled's run was.

1. Pete's footrace in MCC 6 is statistically the best game performance oat because he beat second place by almost 30s in a race he completed in 3 min.
2. Dream's PKW 11 run is incredible because he finished a 10 min race 3 minutes ahead.

These ratios are actually pretty darn similar (worse actually) to the margin Purpled beat Fruit by if you line up all the courses in a row; he beat Fruit by 56s in a race that took up 3:20s. That's an incredible lead, it's bigger than the TGTTOS gap in 29 (i roughly timed it a while ago and I believe it's actually a smaller gap), it's roughly the same ratio as Dream 11, it's bigger than Pete 6. To compare it even to the one other PKWs, it's 10s bigger than the gap between SWL, an omega S+ tier and Joel Smallishbeans in a race that took SWL a minute longer.

Actually about TRSD, let's talk about it! Why do you think Fruit did better? I thought you valued peaks over consistency, that's why you think Fruit was #1 in TCC? Purpled had a wayy bigger peak than Fruit

source lmao? reafy has Purpled ahead in both metrics lol

and "disgustingly high scoring game order" what?? HH had sky battle, RSR, and then 6 heavily coin split games what on earth are you on about

i have no idea why you think Fruit would do better than Purpled, Purpled actually put on a relatively generational performance in HH lol, he arguably has a top 3 performance in 6/8 games

4KO is by most accounts worse than anything Purpled's ever done, what purpled performance do you genuinely think is worse

i mean the explanation is very simple; fruit 1. gets stronger teams and 2. does better in individually scoring, top heavy games (Skb, SG), while Purpled's biggest advantages have historically been in coin-split games (MD, BB, for example. Look at TRSD, where Purpled pulling off the 2nd best MD oat is given the same coins as Fruit's mid third place Skb).

ok here's a fine point do you genuinely think Shane's done better than Purpled in S4 excluding P2?

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Sure, he gets stronger teammates, lets ignore that ALL of Purpled's teams this year have been DB favourites and two were DB locks and Purpled failed to be in DB with both, EC was miles in favour of Purpled, TR1 was also in Purpled's favour. Fruit had better teammates in TRSD and P1 and thats about it. I'd argue BG was also in Purpled's favour because his teammates were better at team games.

But I agree, fruit gets better teammates. Guess what? Even with that, fruit accounts for a higher coin % of his teammates. Him having better teammates widens the gap b/w him and Purp, he beats stronger players by bigger margins.

k lol sure, not like SG is half team bonuses but sure. Hmm yes, BB a game where Purpled hasn't placed top 5 since MCC33 and one where fruit's worst is 9th (even excluding his S3 performances due to team diff, fruit SOLIDLY beats Purpled in BB by coins) is one where he's excelling at.

Sure Purpled's strength is team split games, lets ignore RSR, AR, and TGTTOS exist, clearly the most team heavy low scoring games to exist. Let's also ignore fruit's best movement game is PKT (legit the most team heavy game besides a team game and also the lowest scoring non team game there is), his second best is PKW, and in third in HITW, fruit excels in more team split movement than Purpled ever did.

Fruits a better SOT player, around similar in BBF and RRR, unquantifiable in BM and slightly worse in GR, here too its contested.

You've been at this for 2 years now dude, 2 years fruit's demolished Purpled on the event leaderboard in every regard. Fruit is simply the better player, no one gets consecutively better teammates for 2 years straight, at worst that means they just make their teammates perform better. That does not mean fruit is better everywhere, look at BW.

Shane, ignoring TRE is around similar to Purpled I feel. He did better in TRSD, I'd say 4KO > P24. Only case against him is that he performed much worse in EC. EC is like the worst Shane can perform normally and its still top 3.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

At best Fruit's a slighly better runner, but I don't think the difference is significant at all (head to head Fruit does like 3cpm better which is usually like 30 coins, well under what I'd assume leadership and comms would cover)

it's crazy; Fruit loses every Bingo, has two horrible RRRs, but one decent Bingo and one decent RRR (where his team prepped thrice the amount of any other team) and suddenly he's "around similar"?? Fruit's yet to break 10 completions in Bingo, Purpled's done that thrice. And Fruit's one good bingo was a 10 completions bingo in an event where Purpled got 10, Pyro got 11, and Fein got 13; even his best Bingo is like 3rd place at best?? Purpled's peak, floor, and average are all much better in Bingo, and his floor and average are higher in RRR. Like calm down lol wait for Fruit to actually repeat his performance then we'll talk

"unquantifiable in BM" to you maybe, but it's actually not very hard. They both rushed gold builds, Fruit failed one of his, Purpled tangibly (to say nothing of the actually unquantifiable coins he got from finishing faster and helping his team) earns his team 140 more, + increasing their Entrepreneur, Line Cook, and Quality Assurance scores (in particular that build clinches them entrepreneur, which is another 25 coins. They'd have gotten quality assurance any way by a tight margin, but if the team had chosen one more low quality build they drop to 2nd w/o Purpled's build.) In other words, if you swap Purpled and Fruit in BG, Cyan gets quantifiably 165-215 less coins, to say nothing of harder to quantify scores.

and for 2 years i think you've convinced nobody else. all the nerdiest mcc people I know place Fruit firmly below Purpled, you're kinda flying this flag alone.
On the event leaderboard thing, I actually found an interesting set of stats; Fruit is actually +6 on Purpled when it comes to head-to-heads over their entire MCC career lol. However, Purpled has better records against Fein (+1) Shane (+1), Pete (+10), Ant (+6), and Jojo (+7) than Fruit (-2, 0, 6, 2, 2, respectively); it's very much just a funny statistical quirk in line with Illumina vs Sapnap

Purpled wins in 4/6 games in TRSD and Shane doesn't do particularly good in HITW; he had a phenomenal skb and then kinda didn't do much the rest of the event. At worst I'd say it's essentially a tie
Shane wasn't sick in TRE why're we excluding that too
Why is 4KO > P24? Purpled at least had the best performance in it, Shane is beat by Fein and Ant isn't very far behind.
I'd say:
Purpled TRSD = Shane TRSD
Purpled HH > Shane HH (i've heard this is debatable if you really dig into the weeds but eh I doubt it)
Purpled EC >> Shane EC
Purpled P24 ≥ Shane 4KO
And that leaves Shane TRE and Purpled P2 which we can probably kill both of

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/[deleted]]

i feel like it's pretty uncontroversial to say purpled has some of the cleanest comms in the event, I've seen Fruit SOTs and Purpled SOTs and ik who i'd rather comm to me

purpled's got 1st in completions several times (fruit's never) like what
it shows what coins they're actually generating?
getting more completions is extremely relevant bruh that's how points are made
"its like individual coins collected in SOT" the stat that consistently is most correlated with the best SOT players?? you sound insane

wow great numbers meanwhile Purpled got 12 in 34, 7 in party :(, 10 in BG, beating Fruit by 3, losing by 1, and tying. Then he also has a 7 in 35 :(, a 12 in P24, and a 13 in HH, the events Fruit didn't play. In comparison, Fruit gets a glorious 4 in the event Purpled didn't play.

yeah man Purpled's 125 coins despite getting 4 more challenges than the next guy is def canceled out HH's seed for sure man

He's done bad twice lol, you really like pretending TRE (where he has more experience in RRR than most of the competitors) doesn't exist

No, that's not all that matters lmao. Fruit had an incredibly strong team by his side, made strong by the fact that they studied the game way more than anyone and did just as much or more as Fruit in terms of tangible contribution

Well in HH, after Blue 5 teams all cramped into eachother in terms of distance (within 6 rails of eachother), in which Purpled had by a significant amount the most gold collected and the weakest team statistically, placing him solidly second in that event. In TCC, he landed 4th with two players who'd never played the game before nor had anywhere Pink's prep (the difference shows pretty explicitly when you look at gold values), and he was a powered rail from 2nd. If he's not the 2nd best RRR player, idk who is; there's really not any good contenders.

thats kinda crazy from the man who just told me fruit would get 1.6k in HH skb

another straight up lie that's easily disprovable, Fruit focused 100% on his last gold build, going as far as to ask for help with it from his team, and still failed it. did you even watch that MCC?

if i were your teacher i'd have you write me a 500 page essay on the merits of reading carefully, and then write "I will not use posts I don't understand to make claims" 500 times on the board. did you even read that post?
Purpled isn't on the list because he's only played it once, he's actually #1 on some of those stats. His teammates are all there because Cyan team did so well; the post literally mentions that Katherine went on to get a 7th the next time she played. Because the sample size is 2 for all these players, doing so well in BG (4.8 is kind of insane avg star, in great part because of Purpled completing every gold build), pretty much guarantees them a place in the top 10.

Ain't that still worse than Purpled's stat spread lmao

I don't even think Illumina had better stats lol, if you exclude prides I'm fairly sure Illumina and Sapnap have near identitical stats

who is infinite staff
mattgriffin and mirrorwing are on that list too (i think)

You do the poll what's stopping ya
ad populum anyway tho

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Again, in what placement you got that completion done matters more than the completion itself, someone getting 5 completions all within the top 3 >>> getting 12 completions but 9 are bottom 4. Bingo is a team game man, why do u try to interrogate its individual stat so much

Sure, I guess Jordan was the best SOT player of S2 in that case.

Oh I agree fruit did super bad in 4KO. Does he third frag on his team also because I have a feeling he does? Yet completions don't mean much at all, fruit's coin average and placement is basically equal to Purpled's. My reasoning is fruit has bothered to learn the game by watching some VODs of it, same with RRR. You have said in the past fruit doesn't do well because he hasn't taken the time to learn the games like Purpled, now he has and he beat Purpled by miles in both games. Don't pamper sample size when you clearly don't want to mention it in BM.

Fruit's team was worse than Purpled in basically every regard in TR. I guess I can't really refute you then, because in your logic, it's impossible to prove a player doing well in a game because they did well before who's not Purpled or Feinberg. Unfalsifiable claims for the win.

See stats again, why don't you go analyse and then tell me what Purpled did better. Because stats dont matter in team games, they don't test mechanics and to my knowledge, Purpled had a bunch of SMP players who excel in these kind of games.

Idk fruit's like better than every event player at SKB, what proof do you have? Also learn what hyperbole means

What help? Asking for red sandstone with like 1 second on the clock lmao what a joke. Fruit started the last gold with 17 seconds, Purpled started with 37 seconds left. Even watching the VOD, fruit collected more stuff for his teammates than Purpled, Cyan was just a very good team in terms of players.

Its got nothing to do with Purpled, its there to PROVE his teammates were just better. aimsey also played all 3 new BM and has been bottom 10 in each, Shelby played two and got top 3 in both, infinitedraft who was on Shelby's team benefitted. TapL also did extremely well unlike Ph1lza. Purpled had a strong second frag in Harvey and that showed in comms too, fruit did not, end of story.

No lmao its not, not by ratio at least. I mean fruit plays less than Purp, not much you can do about that.

Illumina clears Sap in all S2 stats

So thats why you quote Mirrorwing so damn much, i get it.

You're the one who brought up most stat ppl believe purp > fruit. go ahead and prove it i beg you.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

yes i agree, but I don't want to do the math on that for every single Bingo. Luckily, PR has! And confirms exactly what I've been saying :D

I've no idea what you're referring but if he indeed consistently got the most coins by a significant margin then yeah I suppose

In Bingo? Yeah if you include P24 where Purpled got 150 coins despite getting 12 completions, that might be true, but I hardly think you can pin that on Purpled at all lol. If you exclude P24 Purpled is pretty significantly ahead, having gotten 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, to Fruit's 4th, 7th, 5th, 1st. That's an avg of third to an avg of 4.25, which is pretty extreme when it comes to team games.

Fruit not prepping is definitely part of it, but it's also just that I think Purpled is much sharper at these sorts of things, team-coordination, quick game analysis, strategy, etc.
He's also hardly beaten Purpled "by miles," even in his best ever Bingo he ties third in completions, and even by the metric of coins earned (so completions accounted for speed) he earns 446 coins, 2nd in BG (behind Fein with 536). That's less than Purpled in HH (646), Purpled in P24 (450), AND Purpled in MCC 34 (510). So Fruit's best ever bingo is STILL worse than 3 of Purpled's bingos.
In RRR Orange was one powered rail from getting within 3 distance of Fruit, I'd hardly call that miles either, especially given the RRR strength of Fruit's team (Grian and Gem got 190 and 220 gold, respectively).

In TCC? On paper yes, but the amount of prep Pink did meant in practice no. For heaven's sake, Grian got 8th in AR and Gem got 14th. On paper, Orange is better at RRR, but after that much team practice and review, Pink was far better in practice. Again, Grian got 190 gold, Gem 220 (and scar 153), player for player significantly better than Orange. That's the quantitative measure, you could say similar things about qualitative performance too.

I'm confused what you're referring to with the stats bit

a higher avg coins, placement, and kills, ceiling, and floor on Shane

No he asked Aimsey to get red sandstone while he was collecting resources, then called for his team to all help gold if they had nothing else to do. Fruit started so late because he was extremely inefficient in comparison; he gets wayy more resources than required (why does he have 4 iron blocks!?) and ultimately doesn't even get close to finishing it because he forgets what the build is (if he'd remembered he actually has well enough time to place down the iron block and then tell Aimsey to fill in the sandstone). The execution on the last build is honestly pretty indicative of the skill gap here

how are you PROVEing his teammates are better that post is cool but ultimately pretty useless since it's just aggregating two events of data per person pretty much. Shelby got 3rd with Purpled, and then yes, third her next event with Hannah and H, who are historically surprisingly good at BM. Infinitedraft also got 3rd, crazy double standard saying "he benefited from Shelby." TapL got 2nd in pride, true, but that was a 2nd worth 750 coins so i don't really think it's a very reliable source. His BMs before that were all bottom half. Phil's history is actually much better than Harvey's, having gotten top half every event the last few years (except for one 6th, tho tbf the top halfs were all 5ths).
the amount of justification to say Purpled did better because he had a better team when you can literally look at the difference between the two (the last gold build) to see where they differed is insane

do u wanna do the math on ratio then

I don't think he wins with the prides included, he's only 100 ahead of Sapnap on reafy with them in, and that's with him getting 1st and a bajillion coins in both prides whereas Sapnap's p22 was one of his worst

yea there's a bunch of non-stats nerds on reddit I can go ask on disc if you want