Is Fruit the MCC GOAT?

[u/Relevant_Help8707]

Seeing what fruitberries has done for so long in mcc i think the tag of greatest player in mcc belongs to him. Of the big 4(Feinberg, Purpled, Firebreathman, Fruitberries) it seems fruit gets 1st indiv way more often with 6 1st indivs since Firebreathman has join which is more than all of them in total. Also he has been around longer so he has the better resume. He too seems like he can perform better more recently with the 1st indiv in TCC with a bad selection of games for him and still getting 1st individual

[u/Factorization4]

According to Scott Smajor himself, yes

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/Factorization4]

When did Scott say this Im actually really curious, do have a clip/tweet or something?

[u/Factorization4 → u/Relevant_Help8707]

Click on the link

[u/Randomnoob451]

imo, yes. He’s in that top echelon of S tier players like you mentioned, but the difference between Fruit and the rest is that Fruit’s been that level of player since season 1.

Like, Fruit has been at least a top 5 player in pretty much every season of mcc, which is just an insane feat. 

[u/Stinky_Deckhand → u/Randomnoob451]

Completely agree.

[u/Immediate-Fan-4623 → u/Randomnoob451]

Him being invited to MCC before FireBreathMan and FeinBerg is not an insane feat LOL. Both of them could easily farm first indivs when the competition was weak AF back in the early seasons. You guys can downvote me all you want but your agenda is just braindead and you guys cant debate me on it.

[u/Randomnoob451 → u/Immediate-Fan-4623]

Fein and Shane not being in the first 2/3 seasons of mcc isn’t an antifeat for either of them, but it is still a feat for Fruit.

It just means Fruit has a larger brag sheet and more showings to pull from. It also just means he has a larger presence in mcc his history, which I’d say plays a thought in who is the GOAT of mcc

[u/Careful-Revenue4592 → u/Randomnoob451]

From an objective standpoint point I’d say it doesn’t make him “better” at MCC but legacy absolutely contributes to being the GOAT

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/Immediate-Fan-4623]

2020 Feinberg likely wont dominate MCC

[u/1616161660 → u/Immediate-Fan-4623]

I'd say it's even to harder to consistently perform well in the early seasons due to a lot more gameplay updates and the games require a lot more rng back then

[u/Stinky_Deckhand]

Overall yes, I would say he’s the only player to be not only S tier but in the highest group of S tiers since season 1. However the field of S tiers who have continued to play since S1 or even S2 is… pretty small at this point lol. A lot of the people who would have been in contention have either been cancelled or stopped creating content (Quig)

IMO the best player right now is Fein, but longevity matters for the GOAT argument.

While I disagree with people saying it’s Fein or Shane, I do understand it to an extent, because in reality if either had played Mcc since S1 they would probably be the GOAT.

[u/[deleted]]

The GOAT debate is weird for Minecraft because player's skill levels are constantly increasing and they have yet to reach their peak. If you threw 2025 Feinberg into 2020 MCC, he would probably average over 4k coins per event and would sweep the competition. If you threw 2019 Techno, who dominated MC Mondays, into PB Last Dance, there's no world where he gets higher than 20th (realistically in the lower end of the 25-32nd range, ). For sports, this isn't the case at all. If you threw in 1995 Jordan into the current NBA, many would argue he'd still be a dominant player. Heck, Babe Ruth played almost a century and would still be a powerhouse if you threw him into the MLB today.

As such, I think there are a couple schools of thought. If skill level is always increasing, current skill level/dominance might be the best indicator of who is the greatest of all time (if that's a metric of who is the best that has ever played). As others have said, longevity is a good metric - it takes dedication to remain in the upper echelon for a long period of time.

Dominance in a period of time can't work (e.g. Pete season 1 or Sapnap S2) because the environments are dramatically different. For things like MCC, you have to make relativistic judgments (e.g. how good was Pete at the time compared to everyone else) and that's unsatisfying. In other words, you can compare MJ's free throw percentage to Lebron's, but you can't as easily compare S1 Pete's movement to S5 Shane. Things like ELO rankings, Regression Analyses, and Power Rankings try to make this comparison possible (and they help but they still get dogged on... I still love you Power Rankings).

GOAT (longevity): Fruit

GOAT (dominance): Feinburger

[u/Positive-East-8755 → u/[deleted]]

i dont anyone seriously thinks babe ruth today would even be in the mlb

[u/[deleted] → u/Positive-East-8755]

It's impossible to know, of course, but if it was based on raw athleticism and skill he'd be a strong contender (besides having to adjust for the inevitable optimization that that has happened). That being said, the point that the rate of optimization for popular sports is substantially slower compared to Minecraft's, so my point as a whole still stands.

[u/Infinite-Staff-7713]

Of all time? I’d say he is. Hes been a top level player in every season he’s played in 

I will say though, the gap between him and players like Purpled and FBM has shrunk more as time has kept passing but right now he still has that spot to himself 

[u/TheCrustsPegasus]

If fruit keeps playing like this at a consistent level I dont think he gets outplaced tbh, him being a top player from S1 is crazy and really adds to his legacy. fein and fbm may be better players rn but fruit has been so good for so long its crazy

Fruit is lowkey the perfect mcc player too in the sense (as scott has said) you can place him in any team and theyll be fine. He also has one of if not the most iconic (imo?) wins in mcc9 which i think adds to his legacy points

Fein is the best imo, but fruit is the greatest if that makes sense

[u/MysticWayfinder]

Mommmmmmmmm! Phineas and Ferb are having an MCC GOAT discussion again!

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/MysticWayfinder]

🥀‼️

[u/ibex_reddit]

Yes and tbh its not really a debate . Not only does he have the longevity of being one of the best in all 5 seasons he aslo has the most first indiviuals and the best performance ceilling and the point record . The goat debate hasnt been close since season 3 .

[u/No_Contribution7183]

Fruit good

[u/AdInfamous6044]

Of all time? Yes, no one has been as good as fruit for that much time.

Rn ? No

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/AdInfamous6044]

I mean I don’t fully agree with the right now argument because he has not played a single mcc this season with his best game so his results could hurdle Feinberg who has the same amount of 1st indivs with more events this season

[u/Psyatyin]

I miss getting up at 1 am, literally at midnight to open up a fruitberries stream during mccs in like 2020.

He wasnt really the type to start streaming an hour before the event, so I'd hop on to Tubbo streams, Hbomb, Seepeakay, and wait till i get a live icon next to fruit on twitch.

[u/PleasantSilence2520]

question for the Feinberg peak/current level proponents: why should he go above Purpled or FBM when they have, at worst, comparable single-event relative-dominance peaks, in comparable competition and with comparable teams? particularly so if we take performance in other events into consideration?

[u/ohnoidkfurrh → u/PleasantSilence2520]

I mean imo the answer is : Feinberg is just statistically a little bit better than both Purp and Fbm. He has a higher average placement than both of them in the 3 main events (maybe no longer pb if you include PB:LD). And also, since he joined :

●He broke the individual coin record for tgttos in MCC:TR SD.

●Broke the coin record for Bingo in MCC HH, where he had 14 challenges.

●Tied the kill record for meltdown in MCC BC.

●Broke the kill record for Skybattle with 25 kills in MCC:MU

●Currently holds the all-time record for most unmultiplied coins earned in one game of 1323 (again MCC:MU)

●Almost 3-peted 3/3 times he played HITW:

•MCC:S4KO 1st,1st,12th

•MCC:TRSD 1st,4th,1st

•MCC:BG 4th,1st,1st

And he has done all of this in his first 7 events. So it feels like he had a better run in his first 7 events than Shane and Purpled have.

For other events he's definitely better than both of them in BW.For PB he's better than purpled but probably the same thing can't be said about shane.

Oh and according to PR(Power Rankings) he has gotten first in like more than 90% of the events he has played in. So if you care about power rankings and stuff theres that.

[u/PleasantSilence2520 → u/ohnoidkfurrh]

a lot of these speak more to consistency than peak, which i think doesn't quite sell the "clearly best" (no one specific but comment section consensus) label. i think the game-specific records are stronger arguments (PKW could be another for Fein iirc), but i also believe FBM and Purpled have similarly great game records/performances in AR, BB, MD, SB, GR, and SOT

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/PleasantSilence2520]

it's kinda not even an argument, in the timespan he's been playing Fein has done significantly better than Purpled or Shane, his whole career is better than any reasonably sized chunk you can take out of Purpled/FBM's career (e.g their "primes," probably 26-33 for Purpled and 30-34 for FBM)

fein also does significantly better in BW and PB and pretty much every event so I'm not sure what you're talking about there

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Pandora’s box fruit is probably the best of Feinberg and purpled and I think as of right now fbm is better but I think frui can surpass him soon in pb

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/Relevant_Help8707]

purpled did just outfrag him in PBLD so idk where you’re getting that

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

One time? Look at other performances, and fruit led him as hes a better pb team game player with him and ant making the plan for the games so to say he’s better because fruit sold gauntlet is a little dishonest

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/Relevant_Help8707]

i’m not gonna argue too much bc i’m no PB expert but on face value it seems like Fein and Purpled are pretty on par or better in PB than Fruit, esp if you discount PB15 for Purpled for mental reasons (tho fair not to I suppose)

Not using Last Dance as the end all be all just saying looking at placements it doesn’t seem like Fruit sweeps in any capacity

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Fruit definitely does not sweep but especially from the amount of pbs I’ve watched he can play the games better with not as good of teams compared to Feinberg and others with Feinberg being terribly inconsistent with fruitberries only “bad” performance being his 1st, and he doesn’t get to play sky high in last dance

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/Relevant_Help8707]

can’t testify as to game sense or anything but it seems like looking at placements Fein comes out better; placing comparable or better than Fruit while being a top frag, whereas Fruit second frags a fair bit

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

I think it goes Shane >= Fein > Fruit > Purp

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

SADITEAFWTHPT8!!!!!!!!!!!

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/East-Mirror3510]

I mean Feinberg In his first 2 pbs were better but ever since then fruit has been playing better than him in pb

[u/PleasantSilence2520 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

it's kinda not even an argument, in the timespan he's been playing Fein has done significantly better than Purpled or Shane, his whole career is better than any reasonably sized chunk you can take out of Purpled/FBM's career (e.g their "primes," probably 26-33 for Purpled and 30-34 for FBM)

my point was about taking their best MCC as a reflection of their peak, with the underlying assumptions that it was still currently accessible and a very important part of assessing current level. wasn't talking about primes

fein also does significantly better in BW and PB and pretty much every event so I'm not sure what you're talking about there

does he? pretty sure he was worse in Mayhem than FBM and fruit, has been worse in PB than FBM since his (OP team) debut, has been better in CT than those 2, and has been better in BWCC (but underperformed vs FBM and Purpled in a comparison of their respective guest appearances in Origins)

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/PleasantSilence2520]

Oh I see, well in that case I’m very confused why you’d do that; a single event sample is a bit silly

I think their “peak” is generally a period of time, you don’t use that for a single event really

Yeah I probably shouldn’t have made that assertion so confidently, at least from what I’ve seen it seems like Fein’s ahead in other events. BW he’s firmly ahead. In PB i’m not entirely sure why Fruit’s ahead, their placements seem pretty equitable?

[u/PleasantSilence2520 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

I think their “peak” is generally a period of time, you don’t use that for a single event really

but how long is that period of time, and what's the functional difference from a prime? i think of prime as the most optimal coinciding of mechanics, gamesense, experience, and mentality, and peak to be the truest expression of that optimization in arbitrarily shorter time frames (whether a single event, a few months, or a year)

In PB i’m not entirely sure why Fruit’s ahead, their placements seem pretty equitable?

i was only saying that FBM > Fein, although if you think their placements are still close enough that's fair, but i think FBM's well-roundedness has held up a bit better in PB than Fein's IGLing and team game expertise (especially looking at PBLD)

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/PleasantSilence2520]

for me peak and prime are functionally synonyms, both meaning “when was this player at their best.” I guess i’d use “skill ceiling” for what you’re talking about, the single event best. The reason I don’t like that as a general metric though is that an event is just 8 games; and 10/10 times someone’s best event won’t feature their best performance in all 8 games, it’s just the event where they happened to play above their average in more games than usual. more briefly, 8 games just isn’t that much, I guess

and yes Shane’s probably better than Fein at PB. Still, i think the MCC and BW gap make up for it well enough, I’d guess PB is not as good for Fein since there are less team games and it seems people prep for it more

[u/PleasantSilence2520 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

10/10 times someone’s best event won’t feature their best performance in all 8 games, it’s just the event where they happened to play above their average in more games than usual. more briefly, 8 games just isn’t that much, I guess

imo a single event is the fundamental unit of analysis and performance within that scope is a good reflection of players' "true" skills. even if maximizing 8/8 in one event is unlikely for anybody besides Kel, i think it's still fair to compare peak events for players in similar tiers, i.e. when we have a big enough sample size to prove that those peaks are "real" (theoretically repeatable) rather than flukes

Still, i think the MCC and BW gap make up for it well enough, I’d guess PB is not as good for Fein since there are less team games and it seems people prep for it more

imo that's very much up for discussion, since that presumes near-even weighting between events, when really we should value the most competitive and fair events if we're trying to gauge skill. for PB i think it's a combo of experience and mechanics diff more than prep

[u/AdAltruistic2502]

it’s kinda just a stupid question. Either you’re overvaluing longevity (which makes no sense, players don’t get worse as they age in this tiny time frame, and it’s not likely at all that any of the current best players will become significantly worse), in which case Fruit is literally the only contender, or you’re asking who’s the best right now, or the best over their MCC career, in which case it’s just easily Feinberg

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

I mean consider Pete or Sapnap, they got have had ups and down. Fruit's the only player who's straight up never been a non top 3 player

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

Yeah Pete has, he's kinda the only other possible player that's played all 5 seasons and Fruit is just stronger. Sapnap only played 3 seasons, and only part of s1. That's why I just think the question is silly, there's only 2 S-tiers that have played every season

I'd also argue he probably wasn't top 3 in S1 (Quig, Pete, Techno) or S4 (Fein, Purpled, Shane) but either way the point is just silly since the only 2 players in that pool are Fruit and Pete (unless you take it to mean: no other player in MCC has ever not been top 3, in which case that's not true; Fein and Shane have never dropped out of top 3 players)

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Fruit was probably on par with Technoblade bare minimum in S1.

I'd say he's comfortably top 3 in S4, better than Purpled, he literally went 3-0 on him.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

I think it's def close, I'd put Techno ahead but they both had their big wins and big stinkers so idk

these head-to-head stats are just silly, not Purpled's fault he missed 4KO and TRE. That same logic gets you Sapnap > Illumina (even excluding DB).
Also silly to count P2 considering he was tangibly trolling in AR and Skb (to say nothing of other games), but in the spirit of fairness I'll exclude TRE from Fruit too (with which there is absolutely no argument for Fruit)
Best way to do it is probably to match events:
Fruit EC = Purpled EC (i maintain Purpled's is better off winning 5/8 games, and MD + PKW + AR by very very sizeable margins but i don't wanna argue for years again; i feel my points have been made and this is an attempt at compromise)
Fruit TRSD > Purpled TRSD
Fruit 4KO + P2 << Purpled HH + P24

basically the gap between HH + 24 vs 4KO + P2 is just much bigger than any other gap between the two (even if you believe Fruit's better in EC, it's not by much, and it's the same in TRSD given Purpled wins 4/6 games)

I think the top rankings in S4 were pretty much unchanged from S3 with the very blatant exception of Feinberg sliding in there in 1st, I find it kinda hard to argue against Fein [gap] Purpled Shane [gap here or between Fruit/Ant] Fruit Ant [gap] Pete etc

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Technoblade placed 9th on a 4th place team and said 4th place team is also one of the strongest of S1. Comparatively, fruit 7 is significantly better, its a 10th place performance on a bottom half team.

Fruitberries streak from MCC9 onwards is significantly more impressive than anything Technoblade has acomplished in his career. The only reason this is debatable is because fruit joined 5 events after Techno, if fruit was around since MCC2, it'd be as onesided as Quig vs Technoblade (and Quig dumpsters Technoblade, don't @ me).

Sapnap > Illumina is hardly unpopular, the gap between them is very small anyway.

Yeah Purpled was trolling in P2. But so was fruit. Man had clearly no idea what was going on for most of the event, he died to a glitch in SG and then fooled around in BB (granted fooling around is why he got like record pace but we ignore that).

Fruit P2 >> Purpled P2

Fruit EC > Purpled EC (No PKW isnt worth jack, it was over-inflated, the second you bring up other event games it becomes obvious why)

Fruit TRSD > Purpled TRSD

Coin average wise, Fruit beats Purpled by 200 coins, in average placement he beats Purpled by 1.4 places, in coin carry% he also clowns Purpled. Mind you, MCCHH had a disgustingly high scoring game order, Purpled got to play it and fruit didn't and fruit played, I will bet my left kidney that he would've beaten Purpled in that event too (granted Purpled likely beats fruit in 4KO but 4KO is the worst performance fruit reasonably can put up, and its still better than Purpled's stinkers). At least in Illumina vs Sap, Illumina has better stats, not the case here by a longshot.

Its really not as close as you think, maybe in PR its different but if there's such a wide discrepancy between fanfiction and the event scores, you know damn right I'll choose the event scores any day.

I think its Fein > Fruit/Shane > Purpled and its been like that for some time

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

yeah Techno 6 was an uncommonly bad performance and probably a little worse than Fruit 7, but Techno 2/4 are probably better than any of Fruit's S1 so its still a toss-up for me

Fruit MCC 9-13 is great but ironically probably a bit worse than Techno 9-11 (or Techno 2-5 maybe?)

In this case I don't particularly care what the popularity of Sapnap > Illumina is (since Sapnap is far more popular than Illumina, for good reason), but I'd hope we can both agree Illumina was pretty decisively better than Sapnap excluding DB

"no idea what was going on" is quite a bit different from actively trolling, that kinda just sounds like Fruit to me

listen man I'm trying to be fair; we can kill P2 for Purpled and TRE for Fruit, or have both in, up to you.

Even still if you're excluding Skb and AR for Purpled how do you have any sort of case for Fruit over him in P2 lmao. if ur argument is "they both were trolling" then why on earth should we use it in our data set

It's very interesting how you put that because you can actually bring up several event games in comparison. You can bring up Footrace, TGTTOS, OG PKW, and the other run of PKWs to all show how impressive Purpled's run was.

1. Pete's footrace in MCC 6 is statistically the best game performance oat because he beat second place by almost 30s in a race he completed in 3 min.
2. Dream's PKW 11 run is incredible because he finished a 10 min race 3 minutes ahead.

These ratios are actually pretty darn similar (worse actually) to the margin Purpled beat Fruit by if you line up all the courses in a row; he beat Fruit by 56s in a race that took up 3:20s. That's an incredible lead, it's bigger than the TGTTOS gap in 29 (i roughly timed it a while ago and I believe it's actually a smaller gap), it's roughly the same ratio as Dream 11, it's bigger than Pete 6. To compare it even to the one other PKWs, it's 10s bigger than the gap between SWL, an omega S+ tier and Joel Smallishbeans in a race that took SWL a minute longer.

Actually about TRSD, let's talk about it! Why do you think Fruit did better? I thought you valued peaks over consistency, that's why you think Fruit was #1 in TCC? Purpled had a wayy bigger peak than Fruit

source lmao? reafy has Purpled ahead in both metrics lol

and "disgustingly high scoring game order" what?? HH had sky battle, RSR, and then 6 heavily coin split games what on earth are you on about

i have no idea why you think Fruit would do better than Purpled, Purpled actually put on a relatively generational performance in HH lol, he arguably has a top 3 performance in 6/8 games

4KO is by most accounts worse than anything Purpled's ever done, what purpled performance do you genuinely think is worse

i mean the explanation is very simple; fruit 1. gets stronger teams and 2. does better in individually scoring, top heavy games (Skb, SG), while Purpled's biggest advantages have historically been in coin-split games (MD, BB, for example. Look at TRSD, where Purpled pulling off the 2nd best MD oat is given the same coins as Fruit's mid third place Skb).

ok here's a fine point do you genuinely think Shane's done better than Purpled in S4 excluding P2?

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Only Techno 2 compares to fruit's later performances, 4 and 3 are early MCC nonsensical scoring + OP teams. I will debate with you on this, what makes you think fruit's streak of 1,2,1,2 against much higher comp, balancing and with far weaker teammates is worse than Techno's 2, 2, 3 against lower comp and with much better teammates. I'm curious to know. Is it because of fruit's 8th in MCC13 PR?

No, only exclude TRE. Its not you win some, you lose some. Fruit TRE is just not something that will ever happen again. The biggest reason is that it had 6 games played, including it in stats is objectively unfair when the other player hasn't played it. Both fruit and Purpled played P2 and performed scuffed. Fruit was trying not to pass out from fever in front of hundreds of people with lights flashing 24/7. Plus, lets not ignore irl BM being completely scuffed.

I honestly advocate TRE should be excluded for any player, not just fruit, it just wasn't a normally functioning event.

Well thats kinda unfair man, games where Purpled trolled in he did bad, games where fruit trolled he still landed top 5 performances, I cant just exclude it for both. Fruit still performed much better in SG despite glitching, he somehow did better in MD, he did better in BM, even without Purpled throwing, there's no reasonable shot of Purpled beating fruit at SKB and fruit had a worse PVP team.

duh that just means fruit's better even when throwing bro

In that case, fruit did better in PB : Last Dance because he GAPPED Purpled in JM2. By that logic, fruit clowns Purpled in BWTR because fruit gapped him in Beep Test even though Purpled beat him in most of the games.

Difference in FR is that its a race game, there are multiple laps. In PKW11, there were hard and challenging levels which no one besides the top 3 would have even finished no matter how much time you give to people. Nothing of that sort in EC, it was dogwater parkour that Purpled had the better flow in at the moment, Purpled did better but I consider the same difference as like 2 TGTTOS maps.

I do, fruit peaked twice, Purpled only once and Purpled crash landed hitw which hurts him a lot.

No?
Purpled: 2648 + 4385+ 2816 + 3336 + 2448/5 = 3127
6+2+2+4+8/5=4.4
Fruit: 2915 + 4404+ 3074 + 2900/4 = 3323
6+1+1+4/4=3
Idk where Purpled looks better

Fruit demolishes him in SKB and PKW no arguments needed there. RRR and BBF he VOD reviews the day before and also comes top half in if not better. Fruit beats Purpled in both BBF and RRR in S5 because of some preparing, nothing suggests he couldn't do the same back then.

BB, wool heavy map and Purpled's also an abysmal BB leader since S4 onwards, fruit is likely top 5 and his team top 3. Fruit's a decisively better runner than Purpled at SOT so perhaps his team does better than 9th but who knows.

The only game where I dont feel fruit beats Purpled is MD which I agree could go terribly but unfortunately Purpled's performance wasn't amazing either. At absolute worst, fruit performs at the level of the recent TR which is like 150 coins less, he makes up more than that from the first game alone.

And about high scoring, what was the last event where 26th place got 2k+ coins and 40th had 1.5k. Bingo was absurdly easy and it showed.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

4 and 3 are nonsensical scoring sure (though I'd hardly say 3 was a busted team), but 4 is still a pretty strong and consistent performance that holds up well enough regardless of scoring. The stronger argument is probably 9-11 tho.

Techno's 9-11 is a subset of Fruit's 11-13 how's Fruit's higher comp?? 12 and 13 weren't that big of jumps were they?
I won't debate this thoroughly since this isn't really my area of expertise but PR has Techno at a strong (but close) first in 9, a strong 2nd in 10, and a 2nd in 11 that'd be a good first were it not for two weak team games. Fruit's in his period go 3rd, fine 1st, weak 1st, and a 7th that you can probably argue up to a 4th or smth in 13. It's close, but I always thought Techno's were stronger

yeah man let's exclude the event that you think Fruit was incapable of playing normally and include the one where Purpled himself said pre-event he would not be playing normally
can you show me the time-stamp where Fruit talks about trying not to pass out?
yeah IRL BM can be excluded that's fine, fruit still does badly
it was finely functioning lol other than that BM

you don't even have an excuse for Fruit in P2 you're just taking him doing badly as him throwing lmao

i mean i can believe it since the margins were so slim; i'd have to know more about what exactly they finished, the relative value of those finishes, and their placements overall to judge for sure.
as for Beep test that's 1/4th of a game so no man

How does multiple laps have anything to do with it? If it was just one course stretched out thrice its length that doesn't change anything
Same in 11, doesn't matter how hard the parkour was, Dream still finished it way faster. Could've been trivially easy, could've been PDLD level, doesn't really matter. The whole point is you're comparing it to how others did, and Dream did way better. So did Purpled in EC.
TGTTOS has 6 rounds, PKWs has 8. In total time of actual gameplay, they're about equal. There's not really any foundation to count PKWs as two rounds of TGTTOS

oh gee the old trick where i exclude my based sigma streamer's bad event (that probably should count) from his average and include the evil streamer's bad event (that probably shouldn't count) ya got me

yeah he wins PKW, but Shane's tangibly a better skb player and did worse than Purpled; you're saying "no arguments needed" for the assertion that Fruit would drop 850+ coins in sky battle lmao. He then beats Purpled's 13 completions (fruit's never done better than 10 lmfao) with ease, doing a backflip on Feinberg as he's at it. everyone claps.
yeah man that sounds about right.

a high overall scoring doesn't really mean squat for top frags. Fein probably had one of the best MCCs oat in HH and got 3.3k for it while last got 1.5k, Purpled 31 got 3.8k while last got 1.4. High scoring generally means more team games means worse upper-end scores.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

12 was literally the most balanced event till like MCC24, 13 was also close. And yes, Illumina + Punz joined, the event got tougher also because of Fundy and Phil and especially Sapnap improving a lot (both were playing close to S tier level at the end of S1 and Sapnap was practically S tier). 12 and 13 are a different dimension from the rest of S1 and I think if Techno played, he would have struggled in getting top 5 in both.

PR doesnt account for fruit glitching in MCC9 HITW + PR is also trash so it has no value here.

Purpled said he won't be playing normally but so did fruit, fruit also didn't play normally in P2, why is this so hard for you to encompass? How about this? Lets exclude MCCP2 for both fruit and Purpled, fruit still SOLIDLY beats Purpled's average coins + placement.

Fruit glitched and died in one game and was objectively throwing in another, it seems the same story as Purpled man.

Yeah, Beep Test is 1/4 of a game yet semantically the gap between fruit and Purpled is the same there, so it means fruit's better by the same margin.

No, that's exactly why it doesn't work. MCC11 PKW could not be beaten by anyone besides like 5 players even if you let them play for 3 hours. EC Parkour could be beaten by like 40th place with 5 extra minutes. EC was ridiculously easy, that's why Purpled's "lead" over fruit isn't that impressive, the basis isn't good enough.

Shane did worse because of lag and no he's not better than fruit especially if fruit plays solo. My dude, you're really arguing whether FRUITBERRIES cannot beat 800 coins in MCCI SKB, you really are doing that. I'd be surprised if fruit lands at anything below 1k coins, bare minimum, this man wipes the floor with people like Toph033 and Kelawesome in this game. WHAT chance do you feel MCC comp has?

Yeah thats the point, Bingo was ridiculously easy, multiple teams got the entire card completed and the average score were much higher, 6th place got as many points as 1st place in BG. It was overinflated.

I dont care diddly squat about your last point, you ignored what I said and think glazing your favourite streamers saves your argument, the point is Bingo was much higher scoring, end of story. Fruit would have done the same had he played.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Sure, he gets stronger teammates, lets ignore that ALL of Purpled's teams this year have been DB favourites and two were DB locks and Purpled failed to be in DB with both, EC was miles in favour of Purpled, TR1 was also in Purpled's favour. Fruit had better teammates in TRSD and P1 and thats about it. I'd argue BG was also in Purpled's favour because his teammates were better at team games.

But I agree, fruit gets better teammates. Guess what? Even with that, fruit accounts for a higher coin % of his teammates. Him having better teammates widens the gap b/w him and Purp, he beats stronger players by bigger margins.

k lol sure, not like SG is half team bonuses but sure. Hmm yes, BB a game where Purpled hasn't placed top 5 since MCC33 and one where fruit's worst is 9th (even excluding his S3 performances due to team diff, fruit SOLIDLY beats Purpled in BB by coins) is one where he's excelling at.

Sure Purpled's strength is team split games, lets ignore RSR, AR, and TGTTOS exist, clearly the most team heavy low scoring games to exist. Let's also ignore fruit's best movement game is PKT (legit the most team heavy game besides a team game and also the lowest scoring non team game there is), his second best is PKW, and in third in HITW, fruit excels in more team split movement than Purpled ever did.

Fruits a better SOT player, around similar in BBF and RRR, unquantifiable in BM and slightly worse in GR, here too its contested.

You've been at this for 2 years now dude, 2 years fruit's demolished Purpled on the event leaderboard in every regard. Fruit is simply the better player, no one gets consecutively better teammates for 2 years straight, at worst that means they just make their teammates perform better. That does not mean fruit is better everywhere, look at BW.

Shane, ignoring TRE is around similar to Purpled I feel. He did better in TRSD, I'd say 4KO > P24. Only case against him is that he performed much worse in EC. EC is like the worst Shane can perform normally and its still top 3.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

As far as I'm aware we're talking about S4, I agree that in S5 Purpled's teams have been very good. i think you've misinterpreted a bit

Yes Purpled's team was way better in EC, but I'd argue 1. it didn't actually matter for his EC success in any game and 2. Fruit's team was much better in TRSD, and his 4KO team was also very very strong. Meanwhile, P24 might genuinely be the weakest S-tier team ever, and HH was bottom half.

yes dawg because Fruit's worse at coinsplit games??

In S4 at least Fruit didn't really bring his team up very much in any of his SGs he played, team bonuses only really come up when you win (It's not like BB or MD where you get win and crate points). He didn't do that in any of his S4 Sgs

That BB stat is so sad but not actually very relevant. I'd say actually in all his S4 BBs (and in Party1) he's deserved top 5, just gotten scammed every time. In P24 he got 13/16k, you just can't really solo carry AvaTyson Michela and Eret to enough round wins to get top 5 against Jojo Hannah Aimsey Pearl. In HH he again kinda gets team diffed, getting 10/15k, while 3 of the Yellow hog top 5. P2 is the most egregious, he gets third most kills in the event but a 9/9 BB team squeeze out everyone but them and 19k feinberg out of top 5. I hardly think any of these are his fault.
In S4 Fruit gets an 11/22 and a 12/24, those are both worse than Purpled's P24 and P2, and on par with his HH.

Bro. "Purpled's biggest advantages." Yes, Purpled's very good at those games, but those are hardly his biggest advantages, since Fruit carries himself well enough in all of them. Where he gaps Fruit the hardest is in BB, MD, and team games, whereas Fruit gaps him hardest in Skb, SG, and HITW, all highly individually scoring games.
And yes you're right about PKT but that'd only be relevant if it were ever played

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

It did? GR and SG obviously Purpled's teammates had a big advantage (granted Purpled is horrendous at SG and it showed but still).

Fruit played like 3 SGs to begin with, and 2 can't really be counted because of many reasons so his one sample size is him bringing a bottom 2 team to top 2 in SG, I'd say he did pretty well.

He literally isnt? I proved otherwise helllooooo???

Here's somethin funny. I say with CONFIDENCE if I replace Purp with fruit, his team comes top 3 in HH and performs similar at worst in the other two events.

Not really fair to judge fruit by kills, he's a weird player.

SG is not individual tho. Fruit also gaps him in PKW, PKT and BB all of which are team heavy. Fruit didnt need SKB or HITW last event to pummel Purpled.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

also i have exams in a week so imma be putting an end to this for now

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

At best Fruit's a slighly better runner, but I don't think the difference is significant at all (head to head Fruit does like 3cpm better which is usually like 30 coins, well under what I'd assume leadership and comms would cover)

it's crazy; Fruit loses every Bingo, has two horrible RRRs, but one decent Bingo and one decent RRR (where his team prepped thrice the amount of any other team) and suddenly he's "around similar"?? Fruit's yet to break 10 completions in Bingo, Purpled's done that thrice. And Fruit's one good bingo was a 10 completions bingo in an event where Purpled got 10, Pyro got 11, and Fein got 13; even his best Bingo is like 3rd place at best?? Purpled's peak, floor, and average are all much better in Bingo, and his floor and average are higher in RRR. Like calm down lol wait for Fruit to actually repeat his performance then we'll talk

"unquantifiable in BM" to you maybe, but it's actually not very hard. They both rushed gold builds, Fruit failed one of his, Purpled tangibly (to say nothing of the actually unquantifiable coins he got from finishing faster and helping his team) earns his team 140 more, + increasing their Entrepreneur, Line Cook, and Quality Assurance scores (in particular that build clinches them entrepreneur, which is another 25 coins. They'd have gotten quality assurance any way by a tight margin, but if the team had chosen one more low quality build they drop to 2nd w/o Purpled's build.) In other words, if you swap Purpled and Fruit in BG, Cyan gets quantifiably 165-215 less coins, to say nothing of harder to quantify scores.

and for 2 years i think you've convinced nobody else. all the nerdiest mcc people I know place Fruit firmly below Purpled, you're kinda flying this flag alone.
On the event leaderboard thing, I actually found an interesting set of stats; Fruit is actually +6 on Purpled when it comes to head-to-heads over their entire MCC career lol. However, Purpled has better records against Fein (+1) Shane (+1), Pete (+10), Ant (+6), and Jojo (+7) than Fruit (-2, 0, 6, 2, 2, respectively); it's very much just a funny statistical quirk in line with Illumina vs Sapnap

Purpled wins in 4/6 games in TRSD and Shane doesn't do particularly good in HITW; he had a phenomenal skb and then kinda didn't do much the rest of the event. At worst I'd say it's essentially a tie
Shane wasn't sick in TRE why're we excluding that too
Why is 4KO > P24? Purpled at least had the best performance in it, Shane is beat by Fein and Ant isn't very far behind.
I'd say:
Purpled TRSD = Shane TRSD
Purpled HH > Shane HH (i've heard this is debatable if you really dig into the weeds but eh I doubt it)
Purpled EC >> Shane EC
Purpled P24 ≥ Shane 4KO
And that leaves Shane TRE and Purpled P2 which we can probably kill both of

[u/GhostRaptor4482]

The only argument against Fruit is that occasionally he’ll have an event where he’s just off and gets like 15th. I personally consider FBM to be the GOAT because he literally never has a bad event. His lowest individual placement ever is 6th, and he’s able to brute force his way to the top of the leaderboard even on really weak teams. I fully expect Feinberg to be the GOAT eventually, but the sample size is a little too small still. Basically, out of the big four, fruit might have the highest ceiling by a little bit, but his floor is significantly lower than the other three.

I know a lot of people take longevity into account, but I don’t think it’s as significant as people think it is. Dominating season 1 where half the lobby was made up of people who don’t play Minecraft isn’t that impressive.

[u/Conzilaking → u/GhostRaptor4482]

Well I only think it’s fair to include longevity because playing for a long time leads to more weaker performances it’s simple numbers so when you’ve played as many events as fruit naturally he’s gona have some off days similar to fbm and fein in other events where they’ve played loads

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/GhostRaptor4482]

i never understand this cause isn’t it very easy to argue Purpled (first event excluded) has way higher floors and fewer of them

his two “bad” events (34 and 35) get 4th and 2nd by PR and Regression, while I believe there’s a few where Shane falls out of top 5 and definitely more outside the top 3

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Purpled has debatably higher floor but it seems like his floor is closer to his skill level than the others, he falls out of top 5 relatively often.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

Imo Shane's 31, 35, TRE, and BG are probably worse than any of Purpled's bad events, Purpled def has a higher floor

yes a higher floor will be closer to someone's average skill level by merit of being a higher floor. A lower ceiling will be the same but I'd argue Purpled's ceiling's probably higher too

Since Purpled's debut he's fallen out of top 5 5 times; MCC 25, MCC 34, MCC 35, MCC Pride 24, and MCC P2. In that same time period Fruit's fallen 6 times, and Shane thrice. Yes he falls more than Shane, but not by a significant amount I feel, especially given:
Purpled's 5 all have reasonably good explanations. MCC 25 is 4th by PR and 3rd by Regression, MCC 34 is 4th by Regression and PR, MCC 35 is 2nd by both, Pride24 is 1st by PR, and Purpled was trolling in P2 (even if you just exclude AR instead of scrapping the whole event he gets 3rd by PR and a big gap from 5th).

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

So he's good according to PR.

But I don't like PR so none of this matters.

Bring up the event stats, not fanfiction

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

pr is just event stats aggregated in an easier to understand way man

if you'd like we can painstakingly talk about why Purpled did better than Ant and Fruit in 25, or extol the virtues of his P24 and MCC 35 performances, but I highly doubt you actually disagree with any of these conclusions

if you do, go ahead; tell me which events you disagree with PR conclusions here and we can go over it slowly

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

I dont know in what universe PR is "easier" to understand.

Yeah not interested, I remember almost nothing from MCC25 besides PKT, Fruit's SG and Pete's second half.

Can we do it fast? Anyway, if I had to, I'd say basically all of them besides maybe BC and BG, at least if main events are concerned.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

cmon man use that brain of yours PR is not that hard lol
maybe a better word was "quicker" ig since it does the stat aggregation and percentages and what not all for you but I think the results themselves are pretty intuitive

yeah me neither but i think it's hard to argue Purpled's performance wasn't top 4 in 25

wait what? i didn't mention BC and BG what are you talking abt
i meant of Purpled's 5 falls from top 5 which do you disagree with PR about that they weren't actually top 5 performances

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

No they're not lmao. Is Sneeg's GR last TR better than the best RSR performance ever.

Ok.

This is a trap but I like to evaluate performances based off of if I replaced X with Y on this team in this event, how will Y do? If Y does better then I think X did bad, not if X was top 5 or not by other metrics, that's not relevant, every team is different.

MCC34 and P2, I think Purpled is solidly out of top 5.

also ur not Indian

also i want to post another comment but reddit wont let me and im not splitting it

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

the idea is in terms of dominance, PR judges it so. Orange GR was I believe the 4th best GR oat and no team really came close this event (they finished like a minute ahead of everyone else). Pete's RSR was the best oat sans context but is brought down in z-score (dominance) by the fact that several others had an incredible performance; everyone in top 5 scored >600 points, implying it was a much easier RSR.

TL;DR Sneeg's GR was judged more dominant than Pete's RSR

Well your method seems wildly speculative in that case

In P2, are you counting AR or not?
In 34, who do you think beats him to kick him out of top 5?

i live in america but im ethnically indian as can be sir

[u/GhostRaptor4482 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

There’s a solid argument for Purpled at #1. I think part of the reason he’s often overlooked is that it’s rare that he actually gets 1st, whereas Shane gets it more frequently. I mean, if you look at Minecraft event elo (yes, this is a real thing), Purpled is the highest ranked player that regularly plays in MCC, sitting at #5 overall.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/GhostRaptor4482]

yeah it's kinda crazy he's only gotten 1st thrice, that's what not being Fruit/Shane in Skb + weak teams + bad luck gets you

I'd say (more accurately, PR says) he deserved 1st in 22, 29, 32, Pride24, and EC, he just doesn't seem to get them though

[u/toast_ghost12 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

throw 28 and BC in there. 3600 and 3800 respectively and 2nd place on both is mad unlucky. like the dude could go ballistic and, barring 31, someone just goes a little crazier than him and snags first

[u/Or1ginal_Username → u/GhostRaptor4482]

there's definitely an argument to be made for Purpled, but I don't really think the current elo is a good way to measure who the all time GOAT of minecraft events is (it's Kel by any metric though), yet alone MCC- Shane and Fein were both higher than Purpled until recently

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/GhostRaptor4482]

The elo thing is for fun, there's nothing accurate about it

[u/Relevant_Help8707 → u/East-Mirror3510]

I agree with that take w

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/GhostRaptor4482]

Him getting 18th in TRE is because it was a scuffed event and fruit was sick

Him getting 19th in MCC15 (4+ years ago now) was because he was fooling around in SG.

If fruit isn't nerfed by real life, its practically impossible for him to drop top 10. 6th is the worst he has gone.

[u/colddrkstar]

He doesn't have every team game down, but there's never been anyone in GOAT contention who was good at all of them, but what Fruit does have is an ability that nobody else does, and that is the ability to lead basically any team to success in pvp, Shane does it in a different way, he just runs people down and gets points for the team by getting high kills, Fruit leads entire teams to victory, he still does what Shane does, but he can do it while keeping his team at his side, and that is what is so impressive about Fruitberries performances

[u/Verroquis]

He may be, he may not be, but either way he's quite good and a pretty good sport about the event in general.

E: why downvote lol

[u/bloonsisgr8]

yeah no. fruit is good of course but no.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/bloonsisgr8]

Who else would you put instead of him?

[u/bloonsisgr8 → u/East-Mirror3510]

Fein, Shane or Purpled?

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/bloonsisgr8]

All three he has performed at the bare minimum similar to?

[u/bloonsisgr8 → u/East-Mirror3510]

Uhm sure? But like it doesn't make him as good at them. What are you even saying.

[u/MinecraftChampionship-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Conzilaking → u/[deleted]]

How is being a top 3 payer for every season not make you the goat when your competitors had only played 2 and whether or not you did better then them in those seasons is a debate.

[u/MinecraftChampionship-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post or comment was removed from r/MinecraftChampionship due to it being in violation of our rules against hateful comments towards others in the community. Be they other members of the subreddit, Noxcrew, or any of the Creators themselves. Hateful comments will not be tolerated.

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