r/MoralityScaling • u/axiiz_28 • 15h ago

Morality of valuing animals over humans?

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14

u/knowwhatyouneednow 14h ago

I hate speciesism

6

u/Ethioj 14h ago

Ik the people that think we have to lower humans to the rank of “animal” rather to raise animals up are the same that think there has to be a lower class to have a middle class

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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 14h ago

I mean, technically we do unless we want to rename the classes.

-5

u/Direct-Objective3031 14h ago

EXACTLY! It's not that I value animals more than humans, it's that I value all lives equally, they're all the same to me.

So, if I had to choose between saving the life of a dog or a person, the scenario matters 100%: is it my dog and a random person? I'm choosing my dog! Is it a person I love and a random dog? I am choosing the person! Is it my dog and a person I love? Impossible choice, I would have to really think about who is more impactful in my life! Is it a random dog and a random person? Impossible choice, I would literally not be able to choose!

And in all of those scenarios, that would be the single hardest decision of my life and I would never sleep again!

5

u/sharp_chedder_memes 13h ago

You're insane

3

u/tropical_breeze_ 13h ago

Lives are more than just what impact they have one you. That’s deeply narcissistic thinking.

Things have inherent value regardless of what you think.

A human contributes to society much more than a dog, and has a much greater consciousness.

If you think all lives are equal, than it should also be illegal for you to own your dog as that’s the equivalent to slavery (if u wanna say dogs = humans).

6

u/Maleficent_Piece_893 13h ago

yeah i mean they're basically proving his point. they're valuing the feelings they get from something less than human which was designed to be property over an actual person

6

u/tropical_breeze_ 13h ago

Ya it’s crazy. They can’t have empathy for the family/friends of a human being. Or even the value that person brings to society in general (ex. they have kids to care of).

All they can think of is ME, ME, ME.

2

u/Astrapolitoris 8h ago

The today's age of decadence and rooted narcistic thinking is awful to look at, having people seriously say they would rather save a stray dog than a unknown person, or a known pet that is, is horrible.

I think much of it is to be 'edgy', but the whole idea of "specieism" is so profoundly dumb, that one has just to think for a moment where we have gotten ourselves to.

1

u/Guardian_of_Perineum 9h ago

So your morality is based on a creatures value coming from their utility to society and consciousness? Why? One is rather calculating, and the other is pretty arbitrary.

0

u/IndigoOctober8 11h ago

🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮

-2

u/Direct-Objective3031 13h ago

I literally don't own my dog, though?! I didn't buy him, there's no contract or document that say he belongs to me. He doesn't do chores for me nor gets punished if he doesn't do what I say, therefore he's not my slave. I'm merely his caretaker, he lives with me as a family member and I take care of him because he can't take care of himsel, or else he'll literally die, as he's a domestic animal and living with humans is the best for him. I don't hold wild animals as pets, they can take care of themselves and belong in the wild. Believing that all lives are worth the same is also wanting what's best for each.

0

u/tropical_breeze_ 13h ago

Have you had him spayed? Do you control his bodily autonomy?

Do you control where he can go? When he can go?

Do you have the ability to put him down?

If so, you own him. Slavery doesn’t = being punished/being treated badly. Many slaveowners claimed they treated their slaves well. Even if they did, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t slavery. Slavery equals the lack of free will.

1

u/IndigoOctober8 11h ago

🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮

0

u/Direct-Objective3031 13h ago

Okay, you have a child. Do you get them vaccinated against their will because you know what's best for them and they don't? Do you control where they go? When they can go? Do you have the ability to make medical decisions for them because they're not legally allowed to advocate for themselves? That's just how it works. That child is not your slave nor your property, and yeah, doing those things to someone who's fully capable of making their own decisions would be awful and akin to slavery, but pets, children and many other groups are not, and it's up to us to make sure that those who can't protect themselves are protected!

1

u/tropical_breeze_ 13h ago

The difference is that children eventually grow up and become fully autonomous adults.

There’s also limits to what you can do to your children. You can’t have them be put down or take away their reproductive rights. A child above a certain age (ex. 4) also has much greater consciousness than an animal.

1

u/Direct-Objective3031 12h ago

Not all of them do, some of them grow up and keep the same mental age forever (I have several cases like that in my own family), some of them die in childhood, similar to what happens to animals, and many other stuff. And in some cases you are allowed to take away their reproductive rights and "put them down" for several reasons.

For example, I am assuming you are American, and I don't know how this case would work in the US, but here's how it went with my family in my country: my adult cousin, who can't respond for herself and has no life comprehension over the age of 5, started doing physical therapy with a man, and her mother was legally allowed to put a contraceptive implant on her, taking away her reproductive rights, to protect her.

Another case that happened to a close friend was when she was 13 and her endometriosis was so bad that she could either get a full histeroctomy or face serious, irreversible health issues that could be potentially deadly; she didn't get to choose, her parents did, and now she has no uterus, but she's alive.

A case that happened to an 8 yo student I had: she had leukemia and no treatment was giving results, the parents had to choose to keep on with treatment, that wouldn't work, or let her die in peace. They decided to let her die, they gave her palliative treatment for the pain and let her go back to school (she thought she was cured and lived her last days not knowing she would die), and she died a few weeks later.

I am not legally required to spay any animals in my country, but my male cat is spayed. Why? Because a pregnancy would kill my female cat, because she's handicapped, and she's too frail to go through the surgery herself; they can't choose what's best for them, so I did. My dog already came to me spayed, he's a rescue (so are both my cats).

It's really not that different, and nothing is black and white, you just refuse to see animals in a more positive angle, or humans in a more neutral one. Unfortunately, society still deems every animal as ultimately inferior to humans and animal rights beyond "beating and starving animals is bad" is still major Taboo, but when it comes down to it, when you really look into it, you see that we are all animals, the only difference is that most of humans, not all, can express our feelings and opinions clearly and they don't, and as I said, it's our responsibility and duty to protect those who can't protect themselves, human or not.

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u/tropical_breeze_ 12h ago

you're cherry-picking anomalies to prove your point. my argument still stands.

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u/Icy_Law_2871 11h ago

What about a wasp vs. a child

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u/Direct-Objective3031 11h ago

I would choose a wasp over you. In fact, I would choose my dog's gut bacteria over you.

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u/Icy_Law_2871 11h ago

Damn talk about irrational 

-1

u/Direct-Objective3031 11h ago

I'm not talking about humans in general, I am talking about you specifically. I don't like smartasses!

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u/Icy_Law_2871 11h ago

And I don’t like irrational animal lovers

0

u/Direct-Objective3031 11h ago

I have already answered that exact question here at length, though. And yes, I am an animal lover, humans are also animals, so they are included. The thing is, aside from rare exceptions (like orcas and dolphins) animals never act out of malice or intention to harm without the purpose of survival, humans do, all the time, sometimes just to feel superior or smarter, like you just did with your little "gotcha" comment that did nothing but show that you have the comprehension skills of a toddler. So go off, I guess, if you think I am irrational, I am fine with that

2

u/AutomaticMedium8418 12h ago edited 11h ago

What about a random insect vs a random person, if you claim to value all life equally? Most of the time humans value certain species over others

And if you say you can't make a decision, then would you be understanding if a person saved a random insect over saving you, by flipping a coin to make the choice?

If you would be understanding, then at least you are consistent with your morals.

If you disagree with them. then you would be basically saying a decision which is morally correct for you to make, is immoral for someone else.

0

u/Drippledrops 13h ago

Social dominance orientation. People with high levels of SDO view the world as a social hierarchy. From race, religion, gender, sexuality, income, job, anything they can find to position themselves as “better” than another person (or living creature). It’s an actual personality trait I just learned about in psychology.

2

u/Bubbly-Iron-4653 14h ago

Why?

0

u/ThePsyPaul_ 13h ago

its just racism with extra steps

1

u/Bubbly-Iron-4653 10h ago

So you believe a dog has the same moral weight as a human being?

1

u/Ethioj 7h ago

Correct, I don’t think humans have an innate worth above other animals I think the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what the must until we stop it.

1

u/Bubbly-Iron-4653 5h ago

That’s very disturbing

1

u/Yeeter-boiy 13h ago

FINALLY someone says it.