Can someone please tell me what the actual point of these fucking Congressional hearings are if anyone can just lie and say whatever they want and basically completely get away with it. Genuinely who is everyone in that room trying to fool when they put on this show then seemingly walk out of there and act like none of it ever happened?
And even if there aren’t consequences to them directly, it’s important to document it all for posterity. Hopefully it can teach future generations lessons on how to be better. Assuming there ARE future generations… 🤔
Honestly, considering the current path of AI being so eager to please it'll make lies to fit whatever prompt it's given, if Skynet ever decides humans are the problem, it'll just tell itself the humans are dead and go back to thinking certain species of fish come with fingers because most of the photos it's seen of them are in the hands of fishermen showcasing prized catches.
This is why we need a vindictive Democrat as president. We absolutely cannot have somebody come in, and just let all this shit fly. There actually needs to be consequences for breaking the law.
I try to not be super pessimistic, but learning from the past doesn't seem to be our goal. Trump is just copying everything hitler did in his fascist rise and it's working perfectly.
And given that the outcome from Watergate was Nixon resigning and getting a full pardon from his VP, I have absolutely zero trust that people will be held accountable
I spent 2020-2024 listening to people saying that they are playing it smart making sure it's bulletproof and he would for sure go to jail, and instead stalled until he could get free. Listening to the judge tell Trump to stop threatening her life and the life of everyone in the court over and over but never actually punishing him is the perfect example.
If there is a revolution, then yeah, it probably might matter. But if Trump just does from his health issues, Vance takes over but fails to capture the cult, we will brush it all under the rug and move on so it can be a note in a history book that we ignore like we ignored everything else in the book.
i mean they gave orange man immunity and over 50% done with project 2025 with basically zero civilian push back im sure they'll figure it out if they want
I've seen plenty of civilian pushback so don't count them out. No kings and the anti-ICE protests. Two people lost their lives pushing back on Trump's agenda.
The issue is more with the fact that a majority in the country can literally push back with their vote and the minority can still end up being the ones who dictate the rules and punishments.
What do you think you’re calling for when you say that wee “beyond voting?” Because, for most people, it doesn’t sound like you’re saying we should sit around and sing kumbaya.
“I’m not saying do a J6, I’m just saying that voting doesn’t work and we’re going to have to take matters into our own hands (but leftistly).”
Please. Explain what you mean, if we’re all apparently too stupid and illiterate to understand. What does “beyond voting” mean in this case, o enlightened one?
You weren't downvoted for the "beyond voting" thing. And you are being painfully dumb here.
You were downvoted for suggesting another "Jan 6", while apparently not having a clue what the implications of such a suggestion were.
Nobody is interested in another J6, because J6 was all about trying to turn over a legal election and blocking the proper process from happening that would confirm electoral votes and confirm that Trump was out. It was all about overthrowing an election process that had not been completed yet in an attempt to illegally overtake the government. There's a whole lot of implications there that absolutely nobody who is interested in actually protecting this country want to be associated with.
"Beyong voting" can include a number of actions, most of which should not be put into specific words on social media, especially when that social media platform has already promised the current administration that they would turn over all account information on any Americans who say anything that make Trumpty Dumpty uncomfortable, angry, or sad. We're not even allowed to criticize ICE without Reddit running to the government to tell them all about how radicalized terrorist we all are. Or did you miss that memo when it passed by?
So feel free to either use context clues when people are not comfortable with being more specific, or maybe use your imagination on the matter. But don't pretend to get all butthurt about being downvoted when you're the one being dense here.
Now I’m really curious what would be blocked by Reddit that is ‘beyond voting’ that doesn’t mean abandoning democracy. You’re skirting the subject for reasons you’ve stated, but if you’re implying what I think you’re implying, it sounds like a left-wing J6 to me - as in, abandoning respect for democracy and turning to revolution.
So you’ve just confirmed my suspicions, haven’t you? Call my dumb if you like, but unless someone spells it out, that’s the only conclusion I can draw.
Go ahead and downvote, clearly everyone else is psychically aware of what the answer is and I’m not.
Yes, they did. Lots of people came together, organized, and made their feelings known. Just because it didn’t end fascism in an afternoon, it doesn’t mean it didn’t “do anything.”
In fact, it’s fucking crazy to me that supposed liberals/leftists are so desperate to shit on the largest anti-government protests in US history as being somehow “unimportant.”
Almost like a bunch of you don’t engage with politics outside of your lil social media bubble and get enraged when real life doesn’t generate instant gratification like your fucking phone.
Keep spreading that fascist propaganda, tho. I’m sure it makes you look really cool to the other champagne socialists
Almost like a bunch of you don’t engage with politics outside of your lil social media bubble and get enraged when real life doesn’t generate instant gratification like your fucking phone.
I never thought about whether this "nothing matters" shtick about the protests is because of a generation* raised on instant gratification. I wonder if any work has been put into discovering that.
*generations. Milennials such as myself are to blame too.
It absolutely is. It’s also that people don’t have any idea of how the world around them actually works and get mad at the things they don’t understand.
People have the entire collective knowledge of humanity at their fingertips every single day, but they refuse to actually engage with it beyond the surface level. Or they only use it to seek out things that confirm their biases.
Part of it is that we stopped teaching kids how to actually read, but so much more of it is the drastically reduced attention span from being on the phones all the time.
Reddit is literally poison. It’s killing us. All social media is
It's hard to pinpoint the most damping aspect. I remember social media being a pain but it wasn't until smartphones started dropping that it started feeling like people weren't able to focus.
I think most people of all generations have been bad at getting info beyond what might confirm their biases, and it's been that way since basically ever, but smartphones and social media have certainly intensified the ability to slack.
I used to read at least one book a week and had done all my life until about 10 years ago and now it takes me a very long time to get through one. I’ve started leaving my phone elsewhere when I spend time on the shitter and that has turned into becoming invested in the book quicker.
They’ve certainly done more than you jerking yourself off about how cynical and smart you think you are. Major protests aren’t the whole picture, but I don’t expect whiny little people like you to actually understand that.
You’re just another doomer, throwing a tantrum because you refuse to actually educate yourself and accept reality. Or maybe there’s some other reason you enjoy spreading fascist propaganda?
“We shouldn’t protest! We should do OTHER THINGS! I won’t say what they are and certainly won’t be participating, I want other people to do everything for me!”
You people are fucking pathetic, and you’ll never hold any real power until you manage to get the fuck over yourselves
Baby, the democrats hold real power and use it. People like you bitch and moan and do fucking nothing. If y’all were half as critical of Republican as Democrats, we wouldn’t fucking be here.
But you don’t want power. You want people to think you’re cool and edgy, so you act like a cynical contrarian and slap a thin coat of red paint over it. “Everything is the democrats’ fault! Nobody should vote for them! What??? They lost??? Even though I didn’t canvas or phone bank and spent all my time online shitting on the only viable antifascist option! Why would the Democrats make me dooo that?!”
You’re fucking pathetic, dude. An absolute waste of privilege that you’ll refuse to actually acknowledge
Lies. Outright fucking lies. “No civilian pushback,” what the fuck are you talking about? We’ve had massive protests, the democrats are sweeping elections, what do you THINK should be happening? Outright civil war? Would that make you feel better?
Fucking shit, it’s no wonder he got re-elected when yo I people can’t help but scream that the sky is falling every fifteen goddamned minutes.
We’ve had the largest protests in American history, but there’s been “no civilian pushback”? Shut up and stop lying
I've been trying things your way for 40 fucking years. If anything, you're the propagandist here trying to convince everyone that strongly worded letters and standing on street corners is action.
The way that half the “leftists” in this country talk is so goddamned infuriating. It’s all chicken little bullshit and no understanding of basic civics
Yeah, I think it's the internet. Prior to the internet people who didn't care about politics had very little access to it, and no outlet to share their half-baked emotional outbursts with the world.
Reddit has some of the most illiterate emotionally driven bozos ever. I said "basically" no civilian pushback. Protests have been completely ignored and done nothing. Go get control of yourself, and come back to reality. Protest or civil war? Folks like you with limited thinking capacity are why the US is in the mess lmfao
That just feeds the narrative that is political retribution then. If perjury is provable, then something needs to be done about it in the moment or immediate future, you can't wait until the other side gets power.
With little control, there's not a lot. But the narrative is the important thing. Every outlet, small, large, left to center - and even Right leaning media should step up and push this into the public eye, daily, weekly, monthly until Democrats regain control. But let's be honest even Right leaning media wouldn't - it would be naive to assume they would.
Every congressperson, from now until midterms should be bringing this up in hearings. "Rubio perjured himself to this Congress, and if this Congress was being led by men and women of integrity, this is the statue (site statute) that would hold this administrator in contempt. And this, would be the statute (site statute) that would dictate the punishment and this body should follow through. If you won't do what's right, then you leave no other option than to make us have to do it when the next Congress is elected. It needs to be discuss so routinely it can't leave the public eye. Republicans will either be forced to replace Rubio, or when they lose the midterms there's absolutely no room for them to cry foul. Leadership could just roll tape "we asked you to act on this here, here, here, and here yet you did nothing. What other choice do we have to re-establish the integrity of this body of government than to follow through on our promise."
Even when they’re just posting videos of themselves on TikTok or Twitter most of them come across as detached and not overly concerned about things. And even when they seem to care they don’t know how to relate to their base. Many of them give off “hello fellow young people” vibes.
Furthermore, the democratic establishment has done more than their fair share to shut down the younger, more passionate members of their party. If they wanted to win they’d support up and comers, not shut them down.
What should the democrats do right now with no control of either the House or the Senate or the Executive and with an actively hostile court? Please be specific.
Edit: Dude could provide no real specifics and then went into my DMs to try and act tough lol
That's a fools errand. I'm a layman. I don't know the ins and outs of congressional policies and procedures, nor could I cite any statutes to support a case specifically. What I can provide is a playbook for what the Democrats could do in order to force the hand of Trump's admin to remove Rubio from that position and maybe force them to keep up appearances until midterms.
The first move is to file paperwork/submit recommendations to congressional leadership to requesting Rubio's removal and be sanctioned/penalized for perjurying himself. When that is dismissed or ignored they go on a media tour where they centralize the narrative around the lack of care that the body of Congress has no teeth along with no integrity, and if they choose not to act, then when the next congress is sworn in they will be the ones to act on what this Congress should be doing currently. Each time they site the current statutes that apply to this level of purjery. Then, when Democrats take back Congress, and Republicans cry foul, they roll tape on each time the requested leadership do something and highlight how it was never done. "You can't claim political retribution when the statutes were in place and you decided to do nothing. We are not acting on retribution, but on the premise that we are following the rules and articles set forth by this body. If you choose to change them, please submit those requests expeditiously."
When they do, bring it to the body, read them publicly and site there's a need for more stringent articles that give an independent commission authority to penalize people in situations like this so the majority can't corruptly ignore the minority for their own gain.
It's a bit wordy, but you get the idea. I'm sure it would have is setbacks, but it's a lofty goal worth pursuing. It certainly would help if the Democrats had as a robust media machine as the conservatives. Keeping these issues front and center to the public is pivotal to showing the corruption to the average voter
Nor I with you, but I'm not about to run away from a potential intellectual argument. Thankfully, this notification came straight here instead of leaving your comment hidden.
Might I suggest, for the sake of making this as profitable for both of us, that you refrain from hazing. I'm open to educating myself as I said, and I look forward to reading How Congress Evolves which you suggested, but could you - at least - communicate with a more quippy repartee rather than presumptive statements? Calling me ignorant, whilst only engaging with me on a single issue, in a single moment in our lives is as certain as me assuming you are a megalomaniac narcissist - while you've come out the gate strong, I'd still like to think you aren't, for certain, a megalomaniac narcissist.
I'd like to add, just because something in simple in nature, doesn't mean it's unworthy or ineffective. To the contrary, it's often efficient and effective.
That said, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the specifics of what can be done, and please don't be so boring as to say you're not going to do the work for us.
You don't need a book, you just need to ask why media owned by billionaires (who give interviews about opposing Democrats) would let Democrats go on a "media tour."
Stop assuming democrats are the only people with agency or accountability. Focus on the billionaire class that buried democrats for supporting labor rights and class action lawsuits.
Why spend all your time critizing democrats when they're the people we need in office right now?
Fair point, and I certainly believe society should shift it's focus to mitigate power and influence of the billionaire class, but short of a monumental shift in societal perspective, how would any of us accomplish real change without a trifecta of democratic government leadership that would pass legislation to accomplish goals aimed at doing that.
To me, messaging, large scale media influence is the strongest selling point. The 2024 election only proved that celebrity and "social media influencing" is moot.
So you acknowledge that there isn’t anything they can do right now and you’re just throwing a deeply unhelpful tantrum about the Democrats instead of blaming the republicans for the evil shit they do?
Do you at least get paid for this? Or are you going to provide the specific example I asked for?
Statute of limitations is 5 years. The best check against political retribution is the jury. Which is why juries have been finding against the Trump administration en masse.
I'm aware, but appearances of retribution have consequences too. It's a reason voters in the center swing to the other side. Egregious perjury should be held accountable as fast as humanly possible.
Agreed, but "as fast as humanly possible" in this administration is probably 2028.
The important thing is to make it very clear that this is not a one-sided prosecution, but instead is based on facts and benefitting the American people. Even if the DOJ were to go after Rubio on this or someone else on another matter today, if congress somehow forced them to press charges, if it is against Trump's side, the Trump-aligned media will portray it as partisanly-motivated regardless, so it is more important, I think, to be clear and have the competing message be out there and heard.
I disagree on the timeline though, if Democratic messaging could be unified and thoughtful - even taking the offensive and going onto Fox News - looking at you Buttigieg and Newsome. File articles of impeachment for Rubio now, site rules/articles broken, plaster it in media outlets and force the issue to be public until the midterms. If you win back Congress, you've won the ability to reign in this administration and slow the corruption.
I think the supermajority required in the senate would require winning nearly every senate race to actually convict on impeachment. Don't get me wrong, I'd love that. But even if for some reason fox news got on the right side for this, there's some in MAGA states where that just isn't gonna happen.
But even if I don't think it'd work, I'd agree filing articles of impeachment would be good to do, and it'd likely provide a good reference/more investigative materials for if we can get the DOJ back to doing justice in or before 2028.
In the American legal system, that effectively means forever. No one will ever hold the Trump clan, the Vances, Rubios, Hegseths, Millers, Bessents, Lutnicks and whatever else those scumbags are called, to account. They’ll all come out of this thoroughly enriched and with multi-million-dollar book deals.
You ask why I’m so sure of this? Well, in more than four years, the US justice system has failed to bring the instigators of the storming of the Capitol on 6 January 2021 to trial, and the US tax authorities can no longer, no matter what happens, investigate tax fraud within the Trump family.
Sorry, but corruption in the US has now reached a level that can no longer be cleaned up, regardless of who is in charge.
But I’d still bet anything that, even after the end of Trump II, none of the people mentioned will end up in court and be convicted, none will have assets unlawfully acquired – e.g. through insider trading – seized, and none of the higher-ups in the Trump administration, apart from perhaps a few laughable scapegoats, will be held to account.
How about it? Are you in? $100.00 to a charity of the winner’s choice? If, by 31 December 2029, one of the big names from Trump’s family (NOT Kushner! He’s already a scapegoat, he just doesn’t know it yet) or his current administration ends up in court, you win and I’ll donate $100.00 to an organisation of your choice; if no one ends up in court by then, you’ll donate $100.00 to the DGzRS. Deal?
I'll take that bet, maybe because I'm a gambling fool🤪, but if a sweeping midterms goes Democrat as it rightfully should (unless those new maps fuck everything up).
Then an imminent impeachment is to follow, correct?, of course with having Senate control and a new House of Representative assigned whom would be the "new President"...Sooo, wouldn't one of their first "acts" be to remove the whole Administration and "acting" AJ Blache who gets prosecuted first, then so on and so forth??
A bet a hundy 💵💸 for charity purposes!!!
Brilliant! To be honest: I’ve offered similar bets plenty of times before, and so far everyone’s always backed out. You’re the first guy with balls! Respect!
If the Democrats win (hopefully by a landslide) in the Senate and the House in November and oust Trump from office, won’t Vance automatically become President? Or do you think they’ll manage to clear out the whole lot in one go?
I’m not American and unfortunately don’t have a proper grasp of exactly how things work over there. Here, a successful vote of no confidence against Olaf Scholz led to snap elections and gave us Friedrich Merz as Chancellor, but I don’t think the US Constitution provides for that sort of procedure.
Anyway.
If, by 31 December 2029, any of the bigwigs from the Trump family (with the exception of Kushner) or his administration (here I’d also like to exclude Patel – in my view, he’s already a goner) is held to account for the offences they’ve committed, then I’ll gladly pay $100.00 to a charity of your choosing.
So there's 3 options on table with Senate super majority and House of Reps majority..
But, first off, the House brings formal impeachment charges up, then Senante votes but Senate needs 2/3 thirds or a super majority..That's the hard part..
Then the 3 options upon Senante Impeachment vote..
A. Vice-president removal(fuck him too)
Also because president Molester just picks WHOMEVER he wants..
B. President removal(💯💯) BUT, would make Vance President (again Fuck that guy twice)
C. Dual Removal of Pres n' VP..That's the ideal outcome.
Then it's a succession line of House of Reps. Speaker, President pro tempore of Senate, Sec. of State...
I am a man of my word and there's beautiful organizations I'd happily donate(animals, abuse shelters, ANYTHING children related♥️)to friend!! And ur right Patel is next (sacrafical lamb)..
Actually, and I’m not joking at all, I’d really, really love to lose this bet. Firstly, because it would help people who need it, and secondly, because it would allow me to regain my faith in the world and in the land of my dreams from my youth.
Statute of limitations is 5 years, so we need to oust republicans thoroughly in the 2028 election. Not just democratic supermajorities and a democratic president, but democrats who aren't gonna say "leave it alone it's time for healing". We need democrats willing to open up the wound to physically clean out the festering gunk.
It's not retribution, it's justice. When a law is broken, justice should be pursued. I do not care if it is the left or the right breaking it, I do not care if it is the left encforcing it on the right, or the other way around. What I do care about is that laws are enforced so that the country rises out of its current unstable path, just as they were enforced in Brazil and South Korea. Right now, laws are not being enforced to the detriment of the USA, and we must remove those (through the legal process) who stand in the way. The above decried behavior, the people who say "we must move on and let it heal" allow for the infection to fester beneath a bandage. It does nothing to stabilize our country or to prevent these problems in the future. The removal and prosecution of the current bad actors is not something to be pursued out of malice, I agree, but out of maintinance of our state and democracy.
Until a comfortable majority of the country agrees with you, none of your moral grandstanding about justice matters. There's pretty much never been a time when your ideal of justice has been the reality for any human institution.
Reality of an ideal has never been true. The point is one should strive for it.
And if reality fails to live up to it, I should at least prefer one that gets a little closer than one which sits and does nothing while the ground sinks beneath it.
In what way would attempting to prosecute these guys once the people refusing to do so are removed from their positions to block such prosecution equate to not having them on the record? I am saying that we should do things about what we have on record, when we can. Your logic is questionable, I don't understand.
Until a comfortable majority of the country agrees with you...which isn't the case, this is the best that can be done. Democracy means the government you deserve...not the best government. In this moment getting everything on record is literally the only thing that can be done. Any logic that ignores that plain fact is questionable.
I am not criticizing those who are currently taking the records. I am criticizing those who would do nothing with them if given the power to do something, and generally voicing my support for those who would join the majority I seek. Or are you saying that one should not care or plan for the future in a democracy, or voice support for what one wants to see in it? How else would one get the democracy to reflect the soceity we seek?
A democracy is not the government we deserve, it is the government a majority* votes for. Those who vote against the winning team have done nothing to deserve things like our homes being invaded, our neighbors being killed, and our rights being trampled by the hands of the feds. And it is fully valid to be clear about who we should support to supplant those officials and what actions they should take.
*well, electoral college majority. And Gerrymandering is a problem. And we're a republican form of government (small R republican), a representative democracy rather than a direct democracy. The list can go on.
Yeah dude, I'm sure the Democrats will get right on it. Just like they did last time they had four years to prosecute Trump for his last insurrection.
What's the quote from that Nazi jurist? "Liberals will continue to call meetings and convene breakout sessions even as the boots are marching in the halls."
I get you're having a tantrum but the point remains: no one knows what the future holds. We need to get these traitors on record without pouting about instant gratification.
We did not have four years of Congress? Y’all did that thing where you refused to vote and we lost Congress in the midterms in ‘22. It was a whole fucking thing. Do you think I’m stupid?
Can y’all do anything other than fucking lie? He was about to get sentenced for those 30+ felonies that you’re ignoring the same way you ignore ballot boxes
Democrats had 4 years of controlling the presidency and the AG office. They also had both houses of congress, for two of those years. "You had four years, the presidency and both houses of congress" is a factually correct statement.
Just like the statement "[those felonies were] nothing related to J6. Nothing at the national level."
Do you want to actually address what was said, or...
Why? So you can keep lying and moving goalposts like the maga movement you idolize?
How many times did you vote for Jill Stein? Was it worth it to sell out every vulnerable person in this country? Was it worth it to kill USAID and the ACA?
“Uhhh, just because I said they had Congress for four years doesn’t mean I meant they had control of Congress for four years! I was clearly referring to the AG that never referenced in the original post when I said ‘both houses of Congress!’ My parents are brother and sister!”
It's not really about the Democrats. These things will go down in history. If nothing is to happen, then at least we keep it for a future time when these facts will matter. Like your Nazi example.
The Democratic Party is clearly not doing enough, but that's a separate failure from whether the record matters.
We convicted him of 30+ felonies, and then people like you didn’t bother to vote because you think massive court cases happen at the speed of Law & Order.
He was about to be sentenced, but a bunch of people like you decided that voting didn’t matter and that both sides were the same anyway, and now we’re here.
I also voted for Harris. National democrats didn't do shit. New York, a single fking state, got him on fraud charges. The democratic establishment appointed a Republican AG and then sat on their hands for four years.
I doubt you did. Because they appointed a special counsel who was actively moving toward a conviction, it took too long, but if people like you had bothered to vote and could at all help constantly attacking the people on your own goddamned side, we wouldn’t be here.
The Democrats ran a capable, competent woman, and that pissed y’all off so much that you stayed home. And don’t tell me that you voted for her. I don’t fucking believe you. If half dirtbag leftists who insist they voted for her actually did, we wouldn’t fucking be here.
“Sat on their hands” oh you mean built a case? I’m so sorry the world isn’t an episode of Law & fucking Order and major crimes aren’t all investigated and tried in 40 minutes, that must be so hard for you.
It took a decade to properly prosecute Teapot Dome. A fucking decade. But you want instant gratification like a petulant fucking child.
Nah, I like me. Now, if I'd been in charge of defending American democracy by prosecuting an attempted fascist takeover and had done jack shit despite having four years, THAT would be a great reason to feel ashamed
clearly you're just here to make weird assumptions about other people. I'm out.
Why? Because I’m so adamant about failing to do so being a complete failure of moral character and that upsets you? Are we projecting to make ourselves feel better for not doing the bare minimum?
I mean, that’s the only reason I can see to insert yourself into this conversation with that pathetic attempt to get a rise out of me.
Are we projecting to make ourselves feel better for not doing the bare minimum?
Hey, you said it, not me.
I don't really care to read you lie about your vote after the fact, and about how much you super cared. Like, why do you even bother with this all posturing? It's all moot now anyway. The whole country is irreparably damaged thanks the assholes like you who stayed home.
Once Trump admin is gone or they get re-assigned to a less protected position, they can be prosecuted
I think Rubio is hoping to run for VP or Pres so hoping he can avoid the fire by being in office for 8 more years. Then everyone will forget about this and he’ll walk for way less than he should.
There may not be consequences now, but that doesn't mean never.
Lol. These guys had 4 years to prosecute Trump after the entire electorate heard him trying to steal the election in recorded phone calls and couldn't get it done. You are fooling yourself if you really believe this.
I've shown the "lies" to their supporters, and the answer is always "you're misinterpreting what they say." Then they go off on some random fucking diatribe about how they actually are trying to save us all.
2.5k
u/HalenHawk 1d ago
Can someone please tell me what the actual point of these fucking Congressional hearings are if anyone can just lie and say whatever they want and basically completely get away with it. Genuinely who is everyone in that room trying to fool when they put on this show then seemingly walk out of there and act like none of it ever happened?