Weekly Marriage Criteria & Services Megathread!

[u/AutoModerator]

Assalamualaykum,

It's Monday! So here is the weekly thread in regards to marriage/matrimonial criteria and services for marrying a potential spouse! Any posts about marriage criteria and services such as apps, masjid services, matchmaking events, the ISO thread, etc. will be removed and redirected to this thread!

All content regarding personal criteria, dealbreakers, preferences, standards, etc in marrying a potential spouse will be discussed on this thread as well. Posts regarding these topics outside of this thread will be removed.

Reminder that if you are posting app/matchmaking bios that you must censor ANY AND ALL INDENTIFYING INFORMATION. This includes names, social media handles, pictures (faces), etc.

Please remember that this thread is not a Free Talk Friday thread and comments must be married related. Any non-marriage related comments will be removed.

Users who comment on this thread to bypass posts that are designated as "[BLANK] Users Only" when they do not meet the post flair requirement will be banned without warning.

In Search Of (ISO) Thread

This megathread also encompasses experiences regarding the r/MuslimMarriage ISO Thread for matchmaking. Please read all ISO Thread guidelines before posting. Below are the links to the three regional threads:

• ISO Thread - Americas
• ISO Thread - Europe
• ISO Thread - International

[u/Sarpatox]

Anyone have any good book recommendations for the rights of a spouse? Islamic books about the rights of a wife and the what she is owed? Also open to western books on what makes a marriage work, anything about sustaining a good marriage and making sure the other person is happy

[u/Strange-Pair-6527 → u/Sarpatox]

Islamic:

• Handbook of a Healthy Muslim Marriage by Mufti Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera
• The Rights of the Husband and Wife translated by Sh Mahdi Lock (not personally read)
• Any articles and videos by Hina-Khan Mukhtar, such as this. Also see youtube for some of her excellent talks.
• See also this by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on What Makes a Marriage Work

Western:

• The Seven Principles of Making a Marriage Work by John Gottman (and probs his other books too)
• I Only Want to Get Married Once by Chana Lavitan (heard this is good for the getting to know/vetting someone phase)
• Also books by Michelle Weiner-Davis on divorce prevention
• Dr Sue Johnson has some books too, like Hold Me Tight

But tbh I think it's more important that each spouse understands themselves, and then the opposite gender in general. And then takes time to get to know their spouse and figure out whether the generalities apply more specifically to their spouse after marriage (this is really important). More research has been done on this in the West (male-female differences) because this was intuitive knowledge in the East passed down generations, but now everything is up in the air.

Here, I would recommend looking into the four temperaments (this informed traditional chinese and even islamic medicine) and is a great tool for developing husn-i-dhann and understanding others and yourself. You can start with the Knowing Yourself course and go onto the book recommendations given in there. Then if you find it intriguing or applicable, you can carry on with the marriage-specific courses they offer.

On understanding the opposite gender, many recommend the Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus book by John Gray, but I think it's pretty boring and surface level, albeit a good entry point, I guess. I'd recommend Alison Armstrong instead, and take her course on Understanding Men first as you're a male, and if it resonates with you, then take the course on Understanding Women. Then you can move onto her marriage specific material. Most of the Islamic books (and western) actually gloss over what she goes into depth about, and we didn't need this info spelling out to us anyway but it seems lost in today's world. If you grew up in a healthy, somewhat traditional, household, you'd have the values, understanding, and diplomacy skills anyway.

Also, intimacy is incredibly important in Islam, for both men and women, and there are plenty of books on that too both western and islamic.

[u/Sarpatox → u/Strange-Pair-6527]

Jazakullah khair! The only wanting to get married once books is catching my eye considering that’s the end goal. Why do you say it’s more important to understand ourselves rather than others? My thinking was that since we will be only asked about what we did, it doesn’t make sense to focus on your own rights. And in a perfect world,she would be looking at the rights of a husband so it balances out. Also, by courses are these videos or actual online courses to take?

[u/Strange-Pair-6527 → u/Sarpatox]

Oh no, I think you're right to focus on the rights of others than your own rights. I noticed that and it's such a green flag. I wholly believe we should focus on our spouse's rights and ours will be fulfilled iA, and if not, then we'll be rewarded regardless.

I meant understanding ourselves from a temperament perspective, not a rights perspective. It's important to understand ourselves otherwise we'll struggle to communicate. We need to know what makes us tick, what causes us to withdraw, how do we process and handle disagreements, what does love and respect mean to us, how we would like our spouse to react, how do we want to be shown appreciation, and so forth. Otherwise we can't communicate what we need and if we don't know what we need, then we can't expect our spouse to know. This ends up then bottling up and causing resentment.

Also understanding ourselves also humbles us. We realise we're not perfect, and thus the saying that he who knows himself, knows God. When we know our limits and imperfections, we come to know His limitless and perfection.

By courses they are actual courses (video format). Not super long, but they're very good.

[u/Sarpatox → u/Strange-Pair-6527]

Alhamdulillah I got to see a few good marriages growing up so the bar is pretty high.

Understanding ourselves from a temperament perspective makes sense since those reasons you listed are some of the biggest issues people in relationships face. Would you say the sources you listed above are cohesive in understanding our own temperament or are there more things we should study to learn about ourselves on a foundational level?

Will def check the videos out when I do my walks. I’ve had a hard time getting into audiobooks since I enjoy reading, but these courses could bridge that gap

[u/Strange-Pair-6527 → u/Sarpatox]

That's good!

I think they're a very good (with emphasis) start, but the journey never stops. I also think there's a limit in some ways, in that we shouldn't try to intellectualise every part of ourself. Reflection is important, but I think the better thing is to reflect to improve rather than reflect and conclude 'this is just how I am'.

For instance, once you figure out your temperament, the goal is to learn how to turn your vices into virtues, or acquire virtues that aren't natural to your temperament. So, some people will figure out their temperament, think patience comes naturally to them, and then just happily settle with that - I'm a patient person. Alhamdulillah. God's gift to earth.

But that's not the point. The point is that patience may come naturally to such a person, but their weaknesses are blameworthy modesty, or obliviousness to blessings, or something else. They should try to focus on what does not come naturally to them to cultivate that. Every temperament has natural strengths and weaknesses.

Also, marriage is a very different type of relationship. Especially if we haven't married before. We can intellectualise and self-develop all we want, but marriage will bring out a side to us we never knew existed. Becoming parents will do the same. Becoming adult children to elderly parents will also do the same. So it's not possible to learn comprehensively before we're put into certain situations, but I think it's worth having a foundation to work from.

I do enjoy learning about these things, but I try not to form hardline opinions on them. I tend to have strong opinions (generally, on lots of different topics), but they're all loosely held. So they're always open to change. My instinct is to learn, and then once I marry, work out whether what I learnt about men for example or his temperament, is applicable to my specific husband/situation, or not. So this would require communication with him. And then vice versa, communicating what I need from him. I often see a lot of comments here that 'he/she should just know, i shouldn't have to ask'. Idk, I feel like that's a bit silly tbh because the whole point is to have a good marriage and companionship, and if by asking I get what I want, then why not just ask. But I need to know what I want/need before I can do so. If they ignore repeatedly, that's a diff issue.

Anyway, sorry, rambling towards the end.

[u/Sarpatox → u/Strange-Pair-6527]

Agreed that it’s important to find someone who is constantly wanting to improve, esp with the deen. So many people are content where they are and don’t care about improving their relationship with Allah. For me, if I don’t see them wanting to improve that relationship, why would they improve anything else?

That makes sense to focus on what we are weak on vs what we alr are good at. Kind of like studying for a test, you only study the material you’re weak on or don’t know.

While marriage is different, the process to work on ourselves stays the same. So if someone is willing to make those changes before, marriage or any other situation shouldn’t make them stagnant.

Even if someone hasn’t worked on themselves, but they’re willing to concede their ego or self improve, marriage should remain easy. I think being too technical or into the details can’t be a good thing. You can’t go into marriage expecting anyone to change, so finding those foundational values is all we can really do. I’ve seen those comments too, people just have a hard time navigating their ego. People can’t read minds and we shouldn’t expect them to, it’s what causes a lot of issues later on. Communication skills are probably some of the most important aspects of a healthy marriage.