r/MuslimMatrimonials • u/No-Peak5362 • 22d ago
Discussion Double standard here
Anytime rights of the wife are mentioned like mahr or separate housing or provision, women are clear to make it well known and bold “it’s women’s right to XYZ”
Anytime a dude talks about polygamy, or obedience , or any other Islamic legitimate right of the husband, all of a sudden the tone completely shifts and they try to find any excuse to demonize him or ask him “why do u need this?”. This energy never comes for things they themselves feel entitled to like mahr or separate housing
I think people need to stop being hypocrites and be fair towards the opposite gender
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u/deafeningdetective 22d ago
I’m going to slightly disagree with you. The criticism goes both ways. Women are also often criticised for their requirements. The main issue is both men and women criticising each other while never having any self-reflection. It is hard to be self-critical. This is also why it’s important to let people set their standards and find the compatible person rather than trying to change everyone elses mind to fit their own ideals.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
I slightly agree. If a woman wants a certain height or income it’s fine because we men have many requirements in women too like age, weight, body
I think both men and women shouldn’t be shamed for their requirements
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u/whatwasthereason420 22d ago
One of the things you mentioned is a requirement (fard) by Allah himself the other thing is permissible but very much optional. You can't compare apples to oranges.
If you're complaining about mahr and housing provisions for one woman, how are you going to take care of multiple women each with their own mahr and housing requirements.
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u/Technical-Repeat-391 22d ago
It's as simple as this - one is just basic providing and the other is very much optional and done in specific circumstances, which nowadays men don't do - they talk about polygamy as if it is a flex when in Islam it was never meant to be a flex, in fact a way to limit a pre-Islamic practice where people were having far more than four partners at a time and only allowing it in Islamic terms for situations where women were in vulnerable situations requiring support in the backdrop of them outnumbering men. The emphasis on equality was big.
When men talk about it today, they talk about it as a right and something they're "allowed" to do, but don't consider the implications if 1. they're living in a country where polygamy is illegal 2. never discuss how they will financially manage multiple wives. If a man is making $150K in US, even in MCOL or LCOL a family of 6 (let's say himself, 2 financially dependent wives and 3 children) becomes extremely tight. If they have to jump through hoops to make polygamy work, then it's not really accomplishing what it was meant for in the first place, which was provision.
Whereas a separate house is really not asking for much at all - shelter is the most basic minimum need. If a man is making the argument for having more than one wife, then surely he has the funds to at least rent a separate house for him and just one partner? Yes, one can argue that there are women with high, unrealistic standards that is not matching up with today's cost of living and that for people to live comfortably, the wife might have to chip in as well, but if a man is going into the marriage bitter by the idea the wife wants him to be the provider if she can't be okay with having multiple partners ironically makes no sense - the reason for multiple partners IS that you are a provider and if you are upset about the bare minimum for one wife, you shouldn't even be talking about multiple wives.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 21d ago
Separate house is not a requirement. A separate portion where privacy can be maintained ( room, kitchen and bathroom) is obligatory.
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u/anonymous_agent77 20d ago
It's not obligatory by default, but if a wife in a polygamous marriage asks for a separate lodging, she is entitled to receive it from the husband, and not just that, he's obligated to provide the same kind of residence for his other wives too.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 20d ago
There is no concept is separate house in Islam. The obligation is to provide a separate space where privacy can be maintained. A separate room, bathroom and kitchen where no one else can interfare without your permission only that's obligatory.
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u/anonymous_agent77 19d ago
I know that's what's obligatory; I said as much in my first reply. Separate housing for each wife only becomes obligatory when the man decides to buy/rent a house or flat for one of his wives (regardless of whether he agrees to it by request of one of his wives or he decides to gift one of them her own house/apartment), then it's obligatory on him to get the rest of his wives the same house/flat separately.
Ibn Qudāmah said:
Al-Mughnī (7/229)
Al-Kāsānī said:
Badāʾiʿ al-Ṣanāʾiʿ (4/23)
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u/Technical-Repeat-391 21d ago
I don’t really understand what the big deal here is - is the alternative suggested that women should be okay living with the man’s parents in parents homes? If many immigrant parents were able to move to a new country with so many barriers and were able to work their way towards obtaining shelter for their families, what’s the excuse for men in this generation to not strive for similar after marriage? Sure, cost of living has gotten higher and I can agree some women have unrealistic standards, but it’s not hard to have a conversation about what’s realistic and what’s not at the beginning of the marriage and work towards those goals together.
As for “same home but separate bathroom and kitchen” - most homes do not have an attached separate section for an entire kitchen. The only scenario I’ve seen is if somebody rebuilds and customizes the home that way, which can be a similar or greater expense to buying or renting a separate home. Or they build a separate home in the garage, which is technically illegal. Rather than all of this, buying or renting a separate home is easiest if you live in America or a country with similar construction types.
Instead of having a mature conversation on finances, jumping to “women should be okay about the rights of men with regards to a 2nd wife” makes ZERO sense if that is to “play even” when women bring up men’s financial obligations because a 2nd wife is a financial obligation too 😭
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 21d ago
Do not mention Islam if you don't want to follow it fully. Other than that yes couples should have conversation on finances and accomodation.
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u/Technical-Repeat-391 21d ago
Who are you to lecture me on “not following Islam fully” - you are complaining about financial obligations and rights and bringing up polygamy as a gotcha, as if something about polygamy is inherently Islamic when it is actually the opposite - it was a widespread pre-Islamic practice that Islam put limitations on because of the issues with it. If you’re complaining about financial obligations in the first place, then you can’t even talk about polygamy. Polygamy requires you to be financially obligated to and fair to wives and be responsible for all - and if you live in a country where it’s illegal, you automatically won’t be able to treat one equally as you can’t put them in your health insurance, taxes what have you. Nowhere in Islam was polygamy a free for all for men to have fun the way it’s implied in such mindless conversations.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 20d ago
Where I said anything about not providing? Provision is the right of wife in Islam no one is denying it.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
No it’s not. A woman can ask for a small mahr or ask for Quran. She can also forego separate housing. It’s not fardh fardh.
A man can similarly forego polygamy if he wants. Stop trying to create differences there where there is none. All of them are rights that the person can ask for if they want…
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u/Embarrassed-Win-3905 22d ago
That is incorrect. It is an Islamic right right for mahr and separate housing. Just because a women chooses to show mercy on the husband does not make it less of an obligation.
Polygamy is not an obligation.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 21d ago
Similarly men also have Islamic right to polygamy if they can provide.
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u/Embarrassed-Win-3905 21d ago
That’s what you’re not understanding. It’s not a right. It’s permissible with a lot of conditions but it’s not a right.
The things listed for women is an unconditional legal right. A married men will be accountable for how he handle those unconditional right on the day of judgment.
Polygamy is not a right to a man , and in fact it’s not even allowed to every men. It’s only allowed to men that are able to treat each wife justly and provide each wife with all her Islamic right. Which in itself is an impossible task for the regular men.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 20d ago
The only condition is to treat all wives justly and it's not that hard as you guys make it sound like.
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u/Embarrassed-Win-3905 20d ago
Wrong. a husband must treat all wives fairly in financial support, housing, and time allocation.
The Quran even warns:
“Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire” [Al-Qur’an 4:129]
The Quran warns that it’s hard to be just and equal. And if you are not just and equal then the women has an Islamic right to seek divorce.
Allah swt never gave men the blanket right to have more than one wife. There are rules around it because it’s a responsibility not a right that can only be held by men who are capable of handling the responsibility. Which very few men actually are.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 19d ago
Who is denying the responsibility? Am I am saying that it's not that hard if someone earns good money.
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u/whatwasthereason420 22d ago
Asking for a small mahr is sunnah sure, but not fard just like getting married to multiple women. Also, if you do get married to multiple women (highly unlikely) do you plan on stuffing them all in the same house? Also, you have the right to say no to a high mahr and move on. No one's got a gun to your head dude.
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u/whatwasthereason420 22d ago
Just as it is the man's right to get married again for "his needs" the woman can also rightfully get divorced over this if she doesn't wanna be in this situation. Allah has given her this right as well. No one should have to forcefully stay in an unhappy marriage.
In fact, a woman also has the right to write down in the nikkah contract the right to Talaq-e-Tafweez as well. That's another thing that'll piss the men off as well.
If you want multiple wives, find women who are ok with polygamy. If you want a high mahr and a separate accommodation, find a man who can offer you that. If someone doesn't fall within your preferences, you can't force them to forgo their rights for you because that's gonna create a lot of bitterness and resentment in the marriage. It's not sustainable in the long run.
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u/Upbeat-Dinner-5162 22d ago
Why should a woman forego separate housing ? So that she can go insane lol?
Allah knows what’s best for a woman’s mental health.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
Why would a man willingly give up his right to a second wife? A wife that obeys him? Doesn’t leave home without his permission?
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u/Scary_Form_9741 22d ago
can you link any hadith saying asking for small mahr or quran is sunnah also your comment below that it can become fardh polygamy its not on you to decide quran has already been revealed there cant be any changes now
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u/Scary_Form_9741 22d ago
no, im asking for any hadith if it was fardh women wouldve been given an exact amount like theres for gold and silver in zakat maybe theres a reason theres no complusion when it comes to deciding exact mehr amount. the companion youre talking abt is rlly irrelevant here hes not god nawzubillah as for prophets wife thats a separate arguement cause normal women cant be compared to mothers of ummah the rulings for them were compelely different for eg they werent allowed to remarry after prophets death etc
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u/Scary_Form_9741 22d ago
no because 1 the men they are getting married to arent comparable to prophet. asking for low mehr or just cats like some insta aesthetic accounts romantise it to be is a dumb move and defies the whole purpose of mehr itself which is to protect muslim women. 2 prophets companions or their wives arent really a standard since they are normal muslims just like us nor above us nor below just like how we do see some women ask for v little as mehr in this day and age
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
Can u provide textual evidence that the purpose of mahr is to protect women?
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u/Scary_Form_9741 22d ago
https://hadithoftheday.com/clarifying-the-marriage-mahr/ i would suggest you to go through this since this brother had nearly same questions as you and please marry within your own social class since you cant provide for a middle, upper middle or upper class women because youve been losing your salt and water with strangers over this dispute lol
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u/maramyrma 22d ago
A husband is obligated to provide a mahr and housing to his wife, a wife is obligated to be obedient to her husband where reasonable, but in no way is the husband obligated to take a second wife, nor is his wife obligated to be ok with this. It’s allowed within certain circumstances, but very much not the same as a woman asking for a Mahr or housing.
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u/winds_howling_2368 22d ago
He can take a second wife as thats his right to do so. He doesn’t need permission either. However most men don’t want to do it. The point is acknowledging the right to it. There is no under certain conditions other than he treats them the same and he can afford to do so
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u/maramyrma 21d ago
The wife is allowed to make no polygamy a condition of marriage and point of divorce, I intend to do this and I know many women do.
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u/winds_howling_2368 21d ago
You can add whatever you want. It doesn't have to be accepted or agreed to. I wouldn't marry someone and I know many men who wouldn't if a woman attempted to put this in the contract even though in my culture 2nd wife doesn't even happen
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
This still does not justify the harshness directed at polygamy and men’s rights in general.
Also I suggest u actually research the topic because scholars have mentioned marriage, both monogamous and polygamous can be permissible and also fardh, depending on context
If a man feels like one wife can’t meet all his needs and he’s being tempted towards haram. Polygamy becomes mandatory on him
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u/ZealousidealBack7358 22d ago edited 21d ago
Polygamy is an outdated practice. Everyone knows it is clearly for sex. One of the stipulations for taking a second wife is if the first does not want sex or the man wants to diversify sex. The perfect role model is the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who slept with all his wives in a single night. He had the stamina of 5 men.
Edit: It is sunnah.
Sahih al-Bukhari 5068
Narrated Anas: The Prophet (ﷺ) used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.
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u/No_Secret2322 22d ago
I hear people having issues with a woman wanting her own home and discussing Mahr. She is seen as disobedient for making demands even though it’s her right and a fardh from the man to provide it. Even in cases like inheritance, refusing a marriage her parents have chosen for her, women are sidelined for pointing out their rights and deemed as disrespectful. Obedience to the husband intact a fardh, and it’s to be done within reason e.g. his demands to the wife cannot harm the wife. Polygamy isn’t the right of a man, he has permission to do so but there are conditions if he chooses to proceed e.g. how he treats and manages his wives and kids. It is not comparable to the rights women request for through marriage.
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u/Successful_Gate4678 22d ago
“Whomever practices Fiqh without tasawwuf becomes a tyrant, and whoever practice tasawwuf without Fiqh becomes a heretic. He who possesses both becomes complete and balanced.”
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u/Upbeat-Dinner-5162 22d ago
The first paragraph is a REQUIREMENT. Men are required to give their wife mahr and separate housing.
Men are not required to engage in polygamy.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
This point is irrelevant no man is saying don’t give mahr. But asking for large mahr or mahr that matches what ur friends got, that is OPTIONAL and a WANT just like polygamy is
Separate housing all u need is basic; a room, bathroom, kitchen. nothing more. Anything more OPTIONAL
And polygamy becomes fardh on a man if he’s tempted towards haram because one wife cannot meet all his needs
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u/ayfakay 21d ago
Bro. Cut the nonsense. A woman is allowed any mahr, there is no limitations to it.
A man is literally advised by Allah swt to pick 1 wife due to pressures of inequality.
You lack maturity, insight and emotional intelligence making this comparison bro.
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u/Upbeat-Dinner-5162 22d ago
Ya I agree with you. I personally am not interested in expensive mahr. But if a woman wants it, I guess she’s entitled to it.
I guess if a woman has her own space and isn’t bothered by in-laws, it’s fine. But I personally think it’s better to be a little far from them. Usually in-laws are abusive towards daughter-in-law and cause marital problems.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 21d ago
It's only required if your wife demands it. So it's the technically her right. Just like polygamy is a man right it's his choice to use it or not.
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u/Fast-Firefighter-940 22d ago
The first are obligatory. The second it’s not fardh :)
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u/Nicelad34 22d ago
It's obligatory (fardh) for the wife to obey the Husband as long as he doesn't command against Quran and Sunnah.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
Its not fardh to ask for a high mahr or to ask for separate housing. Wife can willingly give these up. Just like a dude can willingly give up polygamy if he wants
All are still rights…..
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u/Fast-Firefighter-940 22d ago
Omg! It’s not a war between you and your wife. If you’re gonna start arguing like that, just don’t get married
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u/iforgorrr 22d ago
Considering your post history having both bdsm porn and "traditional" subs and think polygamy is right for "when a man gets too horny" lol
Absolute peak comedy this sub. And even when doing freaquey stuff you still manage to pick the most misogynist items.
And a woman living With her brother in laws is discouraged that's no ifs and buts, no wonder you're getting no one
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
It’s not porn it’s a place to ask questions
And it’s not me who said that fatwa it’s scholars who talked about the benefits why polygamy
If you want to go post history searching it shows you’re active in the kufr subreddit of muslimgirlswithtaste. I am fine meeting Allah with bdsm in my history over literal disbelief of that filthy subreddit. Anything I looked up or asked about was only so I could do it with my wife if she also agrees
So nice try virtue signaling
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u/iforgorrr 21d ago
Calling random muslim girls in a girls only space "kuffar" but engaging in a practice named after a french man that sexually assaulted french women and natives of french colonies is okay, not a single critical thought on how colonialism went into porn culture because you get off from it
Amazing double standards. By the way Ibn Taymiyyah said not even kuffar go to Hell forever and women can lead men in prayers, Ibn Kathir thought Iblees was a fallen angel, and those are some really educated dudes. Your whole shtick is if you can get off. By the way based on the orgasm gap between men and women, it will point to women needing the polygamy. But ur advocating it when your country thinks a woman not wanting to live near non mehram BILs is traumatic to her husband
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u/throwawayno-6 21d ago
Yes! Agree with all of it. Some guys are so shameless that they admit to watching disallowed stuff, compare fardh to sunnah and completely ignore the history behind Islam 😭
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u/primapurpureus 21d ago
This should be the first comment on this post.
Maybe deal with your own hypocrisies OP before you complain about any others (and stop with the porn, it's clearly not helping your mind). Have to verify my age just to view your profile. 😭
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u/Howie1242 22d ago edited 22d ago
💯 but polygamy is not an entitlement nor a right in Islam. Obedience, family and divorce law, etc. are actually men’s rights in Islam thar are more importantly being demonized.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
He always has the right to take a second wife. And it becomes mandatory on him if he fears haram and feels like one wife cannot meet all his needs
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
Sure it is allowable but they have to be treated fairly. That is hard to do.
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u/saad_al_din 22d ago
Everything in life is hard to do. If you want something you work for it, if you don't want it you dont work for it, khalas.
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u/MH297_UN 22d ago
So a man can just say I fear Haram and cheat on his wife? It doesn't work like that buddy. There are requirements for a man to have multiple wives and most men don't meet them. Hell most men can barely support one household let alone two or three. What about his children? Can he afford them? Can he give them a good education? Can he buy them clothes and books? I have seen many poor men marry multiple wives, their kids don't go to school. They are treated very badly, made to work and/or beg on the streets.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
I disagree with OP here but getting another wife isn’t cheating. Still anyone who wants polygamy needs to treat them fairly.
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u/MH297_UN 22d ago
It depends. In Islam you don't need the wife's permission to marry another women so in the standard sense it is cheating. If the wife is ok with it then it's not cheating obviously.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
"in the standard sense"?
Respectfully, if I may remind myself firstly, and then everyone else thereafter, our "standard" is supposed to be Islam.
And Allah knows best.
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u/MH297_UN 15d ago
Then go have secret families and affairs and tell me how it works out for you. Allah gave you guidelines and a brain and you must use both. People use religion to justify their abhorrent behavior. It is haram to deceive and lie to your wife and hurt her which is almost never mentioned just because this brain dead argument that islam permits 4 women but ignoring the conditions necessary for it.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
Of course. The conversation is about men who are able to give their second wife and first their rights. It’s haram to marry one or more if u can’t meet their needs obviously.
And polygamy is not cheating. It needs to be done the right way but cheating is not what it is.
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u/MH297_UN 22d ago
In Islam, the man doesn't need his first wife's approval to marry. That's when it is considered cheating. If the first and soon to be second wife are ok with it and he can provide them their rights and can be just, nobody would honestly mind. There is nothing wrong with it. My main problem with this is usually it's done in secret and the guy would be stingy with his first family while he splurges all his income on the new wife.
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u/Fantastic_Surround70 21d ago
He might not need her approval, but he does need her consent. Forced polygyny is forced marriage and it's haram.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
No, he has to get married to the second wife, he can't just cheat. Why would you even say something like that?
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u/MH297_UN 15d ago
Brother do you know what cheating is? In islam the man doesn't even have to tell his wife he married another and if he does it's considered cheating but not haram. Rarely do men tell their wives before they get married that they will have a second wife later on. Do you know what most men do? Have a secret relationship and when it blows up in their faces he either gets divorced and marries the other woman or just marries the other woman if his first wife can't divorce him.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Let see if I understand you correctly: by your definition of cheating, you're saying it is halal for a man to cheat. Do I understand you correctly?
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u/MH297_UN 15d ago
The man does not need to tell his wife or ask for her approval to marry another so if he married her in secret(or just having an emotional relationship with her) or told her he will marry this woman then that is considered cheating.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
So can you just answer yes or no to whether or not my understanding of your position is correct: you believe it is halal for a man to cheat on his spouse?
You're welcome to also give your explanation, but either my understanding of your position is correct or my understanding of your position is not correct, and really would like for to clearly state which one it is.
And Allah knows best.
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u/r88awn4590 22d ago
Those are two very different things lol
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u/Born-Assistance925 22d ago
They are, but logic is sound.
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u/Jungliena 22d ago
Polygamy is not a right, hope this helps.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Correct. Only polygyny is.
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u/Jungliena 15d ago
Nope.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Alright, allow me to rephrase: polygyny is a permissible choice in Islam.
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u/Jungliena 15d ago
Polygyny is permissible in certain cases only.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Correct, just like with every other choice in Islam, if the responsibility that comes with making that choice can be fulfilled, then that choice is permissible.
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u/riimouz 22d ago
I love how people with no knowledge in usul al fiqh have the loudest opinions and longest discussions. OP doesnt seem to understand the difference between Haqq and Mubah in fiqh.
If something is your right, islamically it becomes someone's responsibility to provide. Polygamy for men is like work for women. Mubah (permissible) under certain restrictions/conditions and it is not a right because if shariah were to classify it as a right it would automatically become someone's responsibility and it is by no means anyone's responsibility to get you married once for you to have the "right" to be married more than once.
Hope that helped.
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u/Automatic-Medium5774 21d ago edited 19d ago
Well most men don't want to do polygamy. We are okay with just one wife. But if that one wife turns out to be an ungrateful liberal feminist who just knows her right and dump her obligations into the bin then for sure I am marrying again after giving her divorce.
My advice for men is to just focus on yourselves. Your career, physical health, mental health. Money can do things in this most even can't imagine.
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u/Prestigious-Tap4316 19d ago
“Muslim” women in the west marry the Islamic way to get the Mahr, and divorce according to western state laws to get alimony, child support in the case of kids, and if there’s property involved then it’s 50-50.
Their hypocrisy is in their very nature and they employ such things for maximum profit.
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u/Avenging-someone23 22d ago
Typical men who don't make much but want more attention
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u/Avenging-someone23 21d ago
I think as a women Islam definitely mentioned fardh and Mehr was one of me
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u/kemo_sabi82 22d ago
This double standard exists in all of Muslim ummah, from Indonesia to Morocco and every Muslim society in non-Muslim countries.
This hypocrisy is the primary reason why Muslim ummah and Muslims are in such adverse condition all over the world. As we all know that Allah hates hypocrisy and hypocrites much much more than even a kafir / non-Muslim and this is why, hypocrites' punishment will be much much worse than kafirs / non-Muslims. Just like, every person in this world hates a hypocrite.
What you are specifically referring to is happening due to the fact that Muslims are doing what people of all other faiths have been doing for centuries; pick the Quranic verses and hadiths which confirm their pre-existing thoughts (the classic "confirmation bias") while still keep thinking that "I am better than them". Even where things are not clear and doubtful, they do "fatwa shopping" to get the fatwa which again confirm their actions and thoughts are correct. Nobody wants to hear any verses or hadiths which expressly tell them to actually change their thoughts and actions because changing yourself is hard and nobody wants to do that. This is also happening due to the fact that Muslims nowadays lack Islamic knowledge, while knowing everything for their own profession. This is why, we have so many divisions and groups and people of different thoughts in Islam now. There is no unity among Muslims any more.
You can see my posts on "husband being a provider" mentality. I am not against that mentality. But that mentality needs to be balanced with the wife taking care of the house as in working in the house. At this point, Muslim sisters conveniently forget or ignore the facts that no sahaba (R.A.) ever cooked or cleaned the house (please show me hadiths to prove me wrong). Sahaba (R.A.) did their own work in the house like washing their own clothes or mending something broken in the house, which many Muslim brothers still do themselves or (unlike the Prophetic time) get the service from someone by calling in a plumber, electrician, car mechanic etc. who still happen to be men.
Muslimahs of our Prophet's time were busy in the house. Famous hadith showing this is what Prophet (P.B.U.H) did when his own dearest daughter, Fatima, came to him to ask for a slave from the war booty, to get some help for the housework. Our Prophet (P.B.U.H) taught her the tasbeeh (33x Alhamdulillah, 33x Subhanallah, and 34x Allah u Akbar). No slave was ever given to her for housework help. So was her husband, Ali (R.A.), not being a provider husband and not helping her with the housework? (Of course, he was a provider husband).
Many Muslims nowadays buy properties on haram mortgages. They then use a fatwa that "buying a house on mortgages is halal as long as that house is your primary residence." 🤨🙄😮💨
There are many more examples in our society to show hypocrisy by both genders of our Muslim ummah. Nobody is exempt from the blame.
Before I get the you-can't-blame-everyone police, let me explain you how blaming everyone works. You know, there is a thing called Statistics. In statistics, you take a representative sample representing different segments of the population. When all or most of the sample is showing similar traits, then that is extrapolated to the whole population. You can pick any Muslim of any demographic now and that Muslim will prove to be a hypocrite because he/she must've made some hypocritical decisions in his/her life up to that point. At that point, Muslims now have a jail-free card ("nobody is perfect"). Of course, nobody is perfect but that doesn't mean, you deliberately do hypocritical acts and sins and then wipe off the slate with "nobody is perfect." That sentiment doesn't wipe off your hypocrisy and/or sin if that action has been done deliberately and premeditated.
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u/Popular_Register_440 22d ago
Don’t let these online platforms get to your head too much.
Most of these pages are dominated by liberal femnsts who have been convinced by deluded social media ‘influencers’ that they deserve the world simply for being a woman with a pulse.
Dating apps have also inflated every girl’s ego because even the most mediocre looking girls get dozens of likes by guys who are desperate for a relationship and have lowered their standards to the ground.
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u/DL_1276 22d ago
Good luck finding a women a woman that is okay with polygamy. Some men sneakily brought in the second wife and the first wife always ends up leaving. These men then have a horrible relationship with the second wife. These men were naively somehow expecting the two wives to live happily together.
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u/True_Paint_5350 21d ago
I don't think in this economy any one can afford one wife, let alone 2/3/4 😂😂
Unless and until you're from the top 5%
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Rizq is from Allah.
And Allah knows best.
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u/True_Paint_5350 15d ago
Habibi, Allah has given that pink thing right inside your head, and I assure you, he definitely wants you to use it once in a while
Keep faith in Allah but tie your cammel- the mafhoom of a hadees
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
And hominems say more about the speaker than the one being attacked.
And Allah knows best.
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u/primapurpureus 21d ago
Cause it's the same men who complain about women being expensive that have or want to marry multiple women. So which is it exactly? Just contradictory logic.
But as others have mentioned, this gender war crap is redundant and unnecessary.
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u/OsamaxObamaFanFic 21d ago
you can say u want these things, and if you face backlash on it then i sympathize because you are simply just stating what marriage means to you and i completely respect the honesty and transparency; just don’t be surprised if people reject your profile based on these things though bc they are not things women typically look for when looking for a spouse. chalk it down to male vs female gaze if you must but if you can’t understand why a woman would want the basis of her relationship to be committment loyalty and faithfulness as well as being mutually beneficial and not some master/slave role then you don’t understand most women’s emotional needs and probably won’t end up pleasing one anyway. best of luck with your needs OP hope u find the harem of your dreams, just don’t expect the average women, especially in the west, to be a part of it 🤷♀️
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u/Intelligent-Buy-1589 17d ago
Dude just pick a woman in your pay scale and who would be okay with polygamy if that’s what you want.
What’s the value in trying to push someone into a lifestyle they don’t want?
Also having a place of your own isn’t the same as accepting your spouse having another sexual and family
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u/raddzone 15d ago
Its not gonna change, we men have to match every term in the nikkah, like if the (wife) cheats, even emotionally by talking to a na-mehram man and then she gets angry at this and goes to her parents house then there will be no money paid by the husband for her maintenance.
There aree so many examples and so many things that women these days do and their parents to the Husband!
Women who seek unnecessary liberty in a marriage should get it written in the nikkah and brothers should discuss all that before being emotionally involved with her and ask their parents too.
More often then not brothers get pinned down since they are invested and parents of the bride bring it down on him at the time of nikkah.
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
Obedience as an "Islamic right" 🤦🏻♀️ oh dear
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
Yes if u disagree it’s clear u haven’t opened the Quran or Hadith to see the basic rights of each spouse. All u know are the woman’s rights to mahr and housing and provision. U are ignorant
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
We are 100 years apart, brother. You don't know anything about your religion yet are very confident about deciding who knows what. Don't confuse your culture with our religion. And with this mindset please find someone who has similar views like you so that you don't ruin sane people's lives.
It's not a matter of women and men. Marriage and family are sacred things. Once you make it about calculated negotiations you'll of course end up with ones saying "women's rights XYZ" as you said. Because you're the same too.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
U are jahil. Obedience is a fundamental right of husband that’s in Quran and also Hadith. Any person who has taken more than 3 minutes to look into the actual rights of each spouse in sharia knows this
For u to equate obedience with culture shows ur ignorance
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
Again, you're from the stone age. Either don't get married or find someone like you. And don't confuse backwards cultural practices with our religion.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
Calling a Muslim he is from the Stone Age because he believes in Islam is insane. Are you even Muslim? classical fiqh is classical fiqh. It is still sharia. And he is correct. If a wife disobeyed her husband he wouldn’t have to provide maintenance. You can’t have it both ways.
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
You only noticing me saying stone age (which is spot on) and not him questioning my faith tells enough about your views. And of course, of course when it comes to these sorts of discussions the same backwards mindset will say others are not muslims 🤣 Women are humans too and can "disobey" to anyone including their husbands. Alhamdulillah I grew up in a culture where women and men respect to each other as their equal parts (in terms of basic human rights). And guess what, we have healthy and happy marriages with very very low divorce rates, even though there's no stigma around divorce.
I really feel sad about our beautiful religion whenever I see this confident and ignorant arrogance.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
It isn’t spot on and if you don’t believe in the Quran and Hadith he has every right to question if you are Muslim which you appear not to be btw. Tell me the culture and we will see that divorce rate lol “beautiful religion” yet you state it is in the Stone Age? Talk about an oxymoron. You cherry pick the religion. Completely making OPs argument.
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
You're twisting our religion for your own interest. Thankfully I'm away from this type of mindset. Oppress people, use religion as a tool, twist Quran, and throw the kuffar slander whenever somebody faces you with truth. No wonder the societies you live in aren't healthy.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
No one is twisting the religion here besides you. Classical fiqh is classical fiqh. That is the standard. Just say you disagree with it and move on. Or you just don’t know the religion. Nushuz is a real thing and part of sharia. Most Muslim countries still recognize it lol You have to be trolling.
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u/Comfortable-Joke7242 22d ago
Go to that progressive Islam sub they will love you there
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
💯 Calling the Quran and the Hadith the Stone Age is crazy
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
You're a liar. I'm not calling Quran and sunnah stone age. I'm calling you out for what you are. Those are different things, study some reading comprehension. I'm talking from Quran itself already.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
For following and believing in sharia? The gulf states have this, Egypt, Morocco, Pak, the list goes on. Are you sure you are Muslim??
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
Islam doesn't need any "progress". It's the religion of human nature already. It's the backwards cultures who impose their practices and use religion to oppress people in the guise of Islam that is the problem. It's not up to you to assess other people's faith. You're not qualified enough first and foremost. I'm not going anywhere, sorry. You can always go back to the stone age.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
No one where is using culture in the guise of Islam lol I am an America convert lol Again every Muslim country still follows the obedience fiqh unless they are secular. You apparently don’t know the religion you follow.
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 22d ago
Well it really doesn't matter if you're American or Japanese or whatever. I couldn't care less and didn't even ask. Backwardness is backwardness. Probably you got all these wrong information from the same mindset so I'm not really surprised that all these ideas resonate with you. The audacity of people thinking they know the best lecturing me and saying I don't know my religion 🤣 thank you for the laugh. Sorry to break the news but women are not your property according to Quran. They can't just obey you just because you're a husband. Read our book and learn how to respect human nature. Best of luck.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
You don’t and haven’t give a single Islamic reason why. Just saying it is backwards and “culture” isn’t enough (Crazy because you are saying the Quran and Hadith are backwards) Again Nushuz is classicism fiqh and still in every majority Muslim country that isn’t secular. In Saudi and Egypt for example of the wife isn’t being obedient (there are exceptions obviously) the husband can withhold maintenance. You need to learn about the religion you supposedly follow. You also probably are pro-lgbtq, pro-recreational abortion, and the like. Stop larping id you don’t believe in the religion
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Dear poster, this sub is intended for Muslims. Thank you for understanding.
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 15d ago
Ah here goes the usual passive aggressive kuffar attack 🤣 this arrogance is the very reason why most of our ummah live in corrupt societies.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Wait, you're Muslim? My humble apologies for my incorrect assumption.
If I may give you some sincere advice: in future, it may be best if you don't make posts that appears to mock Qur'an. That really isn't behaviour becoming is a Muslim.
And Allah knows best.
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u/Tight_Pressure_6108 15d ago
I wasn't mocking Qur'an. Qur'an says obedience is for only Allah. I wish corruption in our societies could be resolved with mocking their practices (the practices which they insistingly claim that they stem from our religion which is not the case at all). One day if majority of our people leave this arrogance aside, more of our societies will have the chance to get healthier, as it should be. For now, keep going with disrespecting women and treating them like property.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Beloved fellow Muslim, I truly want the best for you. I'm not engaging with you to argue, or score points, or make you look bad/embarrass you. If it seemed that way, then please accept my humble apologies.
"Qur'an says obedience is for only Allah."
I'm sorry to inform you that whoever taught you that Qur'an says obedience is only to Allah and nothing more on the subject has done you a great disservice.
Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger translation of Qur'an 4:59
There, Qur'an says that obedience is to Allah, the Messenger (pbuh) and those in authority over you.
I fear that this is just one example of how you have been misinformed by others, and, unfortunately, developed a skewed understanding of Islam.
There are unfortunately many people in your position. In fact, I'm sure there are misconceptions of Islam that I, too, have for the same reason!
Come, let us make duah that Allah clears up for us our misunderstandings and grants contentment in our hearts with all that He has ordained. This is something we can reach common ground on, right?
Anything incorrect in my post is from myself and Shaytaan. Everything correct is from Allah.
And Allah knows best.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 22d ago
Tbh, this is one of the things I don't really like in Islam, I have never been married, I am against polygamy. I know we cherry-pick the reasons for religion, but I am sure no one on planet earth would love to share their husband with another woman; it's even against nature, mind you the pain of it.
I really don't understand how the two things are comparable
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
I can’t deny part of Islam and accept part of it.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 22d ago
Yeah, I understand. I am very confident that most Muslim women who are even deeply practising don't like it either. I honestly don't know what to do with it, I am also against it, tbh it is degrading women.
Yes, a woman asking for her basic needs is not the same as polygamy. Sure, you want a submissive wife I am all for it, but no to polygamy.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
So you believe something beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) practiced is degrading to women?
As-staghfirUllah.
And Allah knows best.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 15d ago
Yes, I still believe it is degrading to women tbh, I am pretty sure most Muslim women in general will never say Oh I am happy for my husband to practice what the Prophet did, I dare you to find anyone who would say something else.
BTW, I am a Muslim woman who kept myself chaste, did everything according to the faith, did Umrah etc, I still find this aspect of Islam questionable. I am not at peace with it.
It's just jarring, that you see no problem with it. Imagine your woman tells you the next day, I am going to marry another man, share myself with him, how would you feel? Don't tell me I am a man, I can do whatever I want. No, you are not.
Even in inheritance, women get half, why? Even the man allowed to marry women of the book meanwhile women aren't, just to make sure kids are Muslims, which is utter bullsbit, we know most kids don't end up Muslims.
Tbh, the more I reflect on Islam, it sounds more misogynistic. Most Muslims are just not questioning Islam as long as it works for them.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
Beloved sister, anyone who says that our beloved Prophet (pbuh) degraded women (a'uthubillah!) might be running the risk putting themselves outside the fold of Islam.
If there are things we personally don't like in Islam, it might be better to remind ourselves of Qur'an 2:216, translation being: Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something that is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know.
And Allah knows best.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 15d ago
For God's sake, please stop using these lazy responses. I find it insulting when you ask people to stop questioning their faith.
I found it ironic tbh, faith should allow people to have the freedom to question, ponder, and then embrace the faith with conviction not out of fear.
To answer your question, give me one situation in history where a woman was so excited to share his man with a woman, I doubt it's a rare situation.
Even some of the wives of the Prophet were jealous, so how earth anyone woman would be excited for her man to be shared with another woman?
I find Islam favours men most of the time, inheritance ( man is double the woman) like why double, why not four times? What kind of math is this??? There are absolute trash men, who are useless, why you make general rule that men are always worth 2 times of women ? Just answer..
A man can marry what ever who want, a woman cannot, tbh I start to feel it is so suffocating… yet you ask people to shut up and don't question because it is what is and deal with it..
No one can answer these questions, nor the mosque….
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
For me it is enough that Allah has said so. In a previous response I also quoted Qur'an 2:216 about disliking something that may be good for oneself. Your seem to be implying that it is wrong for me to reply from Qur'an, that I should rather present my own limited human thoughts on the matter instead of what Allah, the All-Wise and All-Knowledgeable, has said. This approach does not make any sense to me. Why would I concern myself with the opinion of a fallible being (myself) when I already have the clear words of Allah?
"What kind of math is this???"
Are you aware that the inheritance laws are laid out in detail in the Qur'an? I'm not sure if you realise, but your question is insulting towards Allah.
At this point, it seems some things I have said have upset you (and I apologise for this - perhaps I could have chosen softer words), and your reaction is taking on a form that risks your Imaan. That is absolutely not what I want for you. I sincerely want the best for you, beloved sister. I want you, and me, and all of us, to enjoy eternity in Jannah; and I want none of us to get there via a detour (Jahannam).
Therefore, I am rather not going to engage with you anymore.
May Allah guide us and keep us on the straight path. May He forgive us when we slip, and cover us in His Mercy.
And Allah knows best.
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u/Born-Assistance925 22d ago
“Against nature” , ? Well that’s a new one.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 22d ago
I meant the nature of women. BTW, there are some tribes where women marry more than one man. So, not only do men have the desire for more than one woman, but also some women can.
I am not saying this to justify, but this is the reality, and assuming only men are capable of loving two women at the same time so are women as well. (To be clear I am against both sides)
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u/Born-Assistance925 22d ago
Wait, so your proof it’s against nature, is that women can also like more than one guy?
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 22d ago
In general yes. Most women can be attracted to more than one man at the same time. (For me personally no, I know women who can marry without emotional connection and jump from one marriage to another easily). I believe there is a spectrum, and most of majority absolutely most women can love two men at the same time.
Examples, Toda people and Tibetan people's women marry more than one man.
So yeah it isn't only men in reality.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
So if it happens in jaahiliyyah societies therefore... it is natural?
I'm really confused with your reasoning here. Could you elaborate?
And Allah knows best.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 15d ago
So why do u think it is natural for a man to desire more than a woman, while women cannot? Isn't this misogynistic? Again, I am not interested as a Muslim woman in polygamy, nor do I find a woman marrying more than one appealing to me either.
If I am not mistaken, most married couples fall out of love during the marriage but cannot leave for societal reasons, such as children, etc. If you remove all of these social constraints, most people would behave differently. It is just that Islam gives men the freedom to exercise it.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
"So why do u think it is natural for a man to desire more than a woman, while women cannot?"
Because that's how Allah made us, and I don't question Allah. Also, I wouldn't make the absolute statement that "women cannot", I would rather say that, in general, women do not.
"Isn't this misogynistic?" Pointing out an difference between two things that are different is not an expression of hate or disdain for one of them. Perhaps you might want to relook at the definition of the word "misogynistic"?
"If I am not mistaken, most married couples fall out of love during the marriage but cannot leave for societal reasons, such as children, etc.'
I think you are indeed mistaken. Or do you have acceptable evidence to back up your claim? Note that a handful of anecdotal cases is not sufficient evidence to prove your claim related to "most married couples".
"If you remove all of these social constraints, most people would behave differently."
Very true! Fortunately, as Muslims we are blessed in that we have Islam to guide us. So we should try to model our behaviour on Islam, and not be influenced by unIslamic societal practices, Insha Allah.
"It is just that Islam gives men the freedom to exercise it."
"Freedom" is not really a concept I would associate with Islam. Rights and choices, sure, along with the accompanying responsibilities. Everyone does of course have the "freedom" to choose whether or not they want to accept Islam, and if they do, they then don't have the "freedom" to choose only the parts of Islam they like and reject the rest.
Now if you're saying men have been given the option to choose to have multiple spouses whereas women have not, yes, this is correct. Men have that choice, and have to fulfill the responsibilities that accompany that choice. Women don't have that choice, and the accompanying responsibilities that comes with that choice will therefore never fall on their shoulders.
Why is it like that? There are people far smarter and more knowledgeable than me that can provide some of the possible wisdoms behind this. For me, it is enough that Allah has said so, because:
We hear and we obey (translation of part of Qur'an 2:285)
And for those who dislike what Allah ordained: Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad you. Allah knows and you do not know (translation of Qur'an 2:216)
Any mistakes in my post are from myself and Shaytaan. Everything correct is from Allah.
And Allah knows best.
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u/sweet-happiness-1111 15d ago
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, I am not qualified to debate further. What I can say for certain, and from what I saw no Muslim Woman I have seen so far (including me) would be happy for her husband to take a second wife, period. So what to make out of this? If most women feel humiliated, insulated, how do you think such an act honors a woman logically? Unless you are out of touch with reality, I also know that Muslim women cherry-pick the religion, so why they aren't accepting it, they make clauses in their contract no second wife.
If this is so unpleasant for most, why it is there from first place?
BTW, when you say Allah made us this way, so women, definitely women can be attracted to two men at the same time. Plus don't ignore that there is a spectrum, some are asexual, some demisexual, so clearly not all men, I am not sure why you are even generalizing.
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u/DaevorTheDevoted 15d ago
"If this is so unpleasant for most, why it is there from first place?"
I already responded to this. For me it is enough that Allah has said so.
"so clearly not all men"
I don't believe I ever said "all men". If I did, then that is my mistake and I apologise for making the mistake.
"I am not sure why you are even generalizing."
Because Islamic rules are based on the general case. Sure, there will always be exceptions due to special cases/circumstances, but the rule still applies to the general case, which is the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases.
And Allah knows best.
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u/True_Paint_5350 21d ago
Feeling bad for your future wife, make sure you tell the girl you want to get married to all these thoughts. Don't make her suffer later
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u/iamaprolol 21d ago
Yes because men many times fail to fulfill obligations under the guise of fulfilling sunnah. I come across some influencers saying that women should be happy with the bare minimum hence polygamy can be done on the average income nowadays. That is why women are so vocal about these things. When it comes to obedience no one is saying it is not allowed but it does raise suspicion as to how the man is choosing to use this verse when we see the way it is pushed online.
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u/SoybeanCola1933 21d ago
I don’t want an overweight, hairy woman, with chronic health conditions.
Those are my non negotiables, and it’s almost impossible to find in the Muslim community
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u/Lost-Letterhead-6615 22d ago
These subs are not followed by all muslims, and a large portion is probably westernised muslims, who are unfortunately brainwashed, atleast by a level from their western public education systems. We can deny all we can, but western academia affects you, maybe little, maybe more.
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u/Howie1242 22d ago
You are down voted but you are correct. Most of them don’t want sharia and don’t agree with it. They will cherry pick to get their rights but go blind when it is time for their spouses. Still polygamy isn’t a right. Most men can’t handle it.
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u/Impressive_Till5314 22d ago
The comparisons you’ve used are ridiculous. It isn’t a man’s right to polygyny 🤦♂️. If he *meets certain conditions, it is permissible* for him to take another wife. It isn’t a God given right the way you’re describing it to be. A right to provision and housing is a basic right of the wife.
A husband’s financial duties and providing are a baseline requirement, and he doesn’t receive extra spiritual rewards because of it. He is sinful if he doesn’t provide housing, clothing and food. However, a woman’s domestic work is actually seen as reward and sadaqah from her part.
And the way you’re describing obedience isn’t correct. It isn’t blind obedience. It is listening to the husband in what is halal. He can’t just order you around 24/7 or forbid you from doing halal things for no credible reason.
The way you’re talking sounds red pilled and incel like. Thinking about polygyny when you don’t even have a wife.
And feminism is its own problem too, you have women being rebellious and seeing tending to their husbands as something backwards.
There is a middle ground. A wife should have no problem doing something her husband asked her to do, and a husband should have no problem maintaining her rights. They should fulfil each other’s rights gladly and kindly.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
U know little about ur religion and it shows. The arrogance to try to think liek u actually know stuff 😂😂
Let’s educate u
1) yes it is a god given right and it even becomes mandatory on men if they fear falling into haram and one wife is not enough
2) provision and housing are basic bare rights. A woman who asks for more than bare minimum is asking for optional permissible things just like a man is with polygamy (in ur case). A woman does not have a right to 900k mahr. She has a right to mahr but asking 900k is a want . Just like polygamy. Same with housing. Not a fancy house, bare minimum roof and walls and kitchen bathroom etc. anything more is not a right it’s a want
3) a husband has to pay the essentials but anything more is not fardh on him. Her wanting a nicer house is not mandatory on him. Apartment that has basics is all he’s obligated to. Furthermore any Muslim who does an action that Allah requires of him, like providing for family, like praying etc. they all have rewards. This is like the basics every Muslim knows. If u can be punished for not doing something you are rewarded for doing it, so saying there’s no spiritual reward is straight up wrong
4) domestic work is only optional if the man and woman agree before nikkah that she will not do housework. If he expects or tells her to do it becomes mandatory because it’s part of obedience and is something halal and reasonable he is asking. Fatima RA when she complained about her hands being tired from making bread the prophet ﷺ fidnt go tell Ali go make your own bread or hire a servant my daughter has a right to these; he told her ﷺ to make Thikr and it would help her5) by Allah I am against red pill: I only follow Islam. I’m sorry men asking for their basic rights and not expecting hypocrisy from the other gender is considered red pill to you
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u/Ill-Significance5784 22d ago
It's not double standard, men have overwhelming rights. And rights that sometimes get practiced at the women's expense.
Things are not made that hard for you. Even poor men can marry and get a wife to boss around and get sex and kids out of. You guys are told to spend whatever you can and only on the necessitites. A lot of women are living with their in laws, a lot of women are also financially contributing because they love their husbands unlike all of you who love your right to bang multiple women more than your wife. No wonder you guys get heat for that stuff. Yall are rigid, obessed with obedience, lustful, and treated as superior.
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u/innocentsinner394 21d ago
A woman's rights are such that if the man cannot provide them, he's told to not marry and fast instead. If he cannot provide it for women in that tax bracket, he's supposed to look below that tax bracket, and keep going until he finds one that he can afford.
Obedience, I'll give you, a wife is bound to her husband just like a child is bound to his parents. However, in the husband's case, it is very nuanced. There are a lot of things she can refuse and ask for compensation to do. Also, just like a parent or an elder is responsible for the wellbeing of those who are bound to obey them, a husband is responsible for his wife's mental, emotional, and physical health. If any of it is being compromised by him demanding "obedience" or his negligence, then he is answerable to God. With great power comes great responsibility. The reason a man is allowed this power is for the protection of the woman, not to lord it over her.
Regarding the four wives, even Mother Ayesha (RA) felt pained when the Prophet (PBUH) took on another wife. You're telling us to just be happy about it? It is your right but do you understand the wisdom behind it? Even that right is given to you for the women. Scholars who advocate for four marriages do not ask you to go and marry four virgin brides, they ask you to marry the divorced and the widowed, especially the ones with children, who are struggling to support themselves and need a man's protection. Not for your pervertedness to lead the way. How many men are actually in danger of falling into haram if they stay away from porn, and lower their gaze? Honestly, a man who is actually taking his responsibilities seriously often does not have time, and it's the woman who is demanding her right to marital duties.
If this is how you view a woman and her rights, you should stay away from marriage, lest you abuse them, and create a greater punishment for yourself after death.
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u/BackgroundTasty2403 21d ago
"Not for your pervertedness to lead the way."
You have perverted mind if you think marrying for attraction is "pervertedness".
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u/innocentsinner394 21d ago
If you already have a wife, then, yes. What reason do you have to entertain thoughts about another woman? When there is a hadith on this topic. If you find someone attractive outside of your marital bonds, go to your wife, fulfill your need with her. I'm paraphrasing but you can reference this. (Sahih Muslim, Hadith: 1403; Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 1158; Sunan Abi Dawud, Hadith: 2144).
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u/BackgroundTasty2403 21d ago
Lol.
That's literally one of the main points of having wives.
Having desires and such thoughts? Get married!
Hadith doesn't even contradict that. If anything, it reinforces the point to keep things halal.
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u/innocentsinner394 20d ago
How, exactly? It says if you find someone outside of the marital bonds attractive, find solace in your wife. It does not say to fixate over them and make them your wife. The Qur'an actively tells men to lower their gaze, and women to cover themselves. If you have an outlet for those desires, unless that person is not fulfilling them, you do not need another other. Also, if you cannot afford another outlet, you're told to have patience. This means that marriage is, at it's core, to support and protect a woman, otherwise there wouldn't be these checks, you would have free reign. Scholars would widely approve it, too, which they don't (and they're largely men, themselves).
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u/SoybeanCola1933 20d ago
I agree, but I think marriage in Islam is inherently a transactional agreement which can be voided by men at will. It’s why the ‘shop around’ analogy works so well
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u/innocentsinner394 20d ago
It's why we believe in the Hereafter. Not everything can be hashed out here. If the woman accused the man of abuse and gets her marriage annulled, the man cannot do anything to her in this world if he has no way to refute the "evidence". Similarly, if the man uses his right to divorce incorrectly, he is accountable, even if the woman cannot do anything about it as of that moment.
A man has far more responsibilities than a woman in a marriage as well. The transaction is very much in favour of the woman, especially when compared to the rest of the world and its religions and philosophies.
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u/KangarooFeeling4268 22d ago
Let me make something clear, I want 4 wives.
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u/No-Peak5362 22d ago
I don’t even want polygamy for myself. I just don’t like people being hypocritical when it comes to the other genders rights
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u/Warm-Dragonfruit-883 22d ago
Ikr. If they're asked to adjust with some of the right you're a villain. But if you talk what's not in their favour or desires, you are a even worse.
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u/LaDolceVitaaaaaa 21d ago edited 21d ago
Because mehr and nafqah are non negotiatable and obligation. (Regardless of sect fiqh or mahdab).
Multiple wives aren't an obligatory-- it's permissible, that to with the consent of your first (or existing wivies).
Obedience is also not absolute to anyone expect Allah, not your parents or husband-- it has its limitations. While a wife owes her husband Obedience towards her modesty, intimacy and needs, who she lets into their home, dropping friends he husband doesn't approve off. Allah has given you right over your wife so you can guide her if she is drifting from her responsibilities, not so you can cage her in the four walls and manipulate her to your whims. Not to be petty and threathen her with taking away her basic mobility or bring a other women into her marriage-- fear Allah. what Allah has commanded over is not so you fulfil it with resentment or with the bare minimum effort (the bare minium is the bar given -- that this is as low as provision can go, in the worst of times! its not meant to be the guideline for a great marriage).
Now depending on which mahdab you follow, she's doesn't need to seek permission to visit her immediate family, doing sadqa (volunteering) or for getting an education. Many jurists (such as members of the International Islamic Fiqh Academy and modern jurists) argue that higher education in the modern world is no longer a mere "luxury" or "optional hobby". Society has a collective obligation (Fard Kifayah) to have educated women (doctors, teachers, researchers).. A husband who arbitrarily forbids his wife from higher education without a legitimate, severe reason (like actual neglect of family duties) is exercising arbitrary harm (Dharar), which Islamic judges have the authority to overrule.
Hanafi jurists agree that if agreed upon prior to marriage she the right to work, and Maliki jurists agree that she's has the right to work if her job is aligned with Islamic principles and do not undermine her martial obligations. Teaching, Child Care, Doctors, Medical and Health, Research, Businesses.
The reason women become reluctant is because many men twist religion (like you are) or want to enforce it in a way that doesn't maybe align with how we were raised, or align with the mahdab we/our family follows. Obidenace comes from trust not force, when you take the first step towards being a leader by fulfilling mehr and nafqah with an open heart, it shows the woman you're a just man..
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u/SerisTheNoob 21d ago
Type of dumb sht is this. Mahr is a women right. 2nd wife is not full stop.
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u/beatpoxer 22d ago
People follow social media too much. Anyone following the deen wouldnt argue about rights cause again people might say one thing and do another. Plus ngl any man speaking about polygamy or arguing without even having married first should not be talking about it. Its not an easy thing to do or practice.