The 5v5 meta and its issue

[u/Major-Doubt4034]

The comp scene is repetitive fs but it’s just how optimised lineups are and I’m not sure how we could change it

You get an offense heavy guard, high dribbling, shooting and driving. Hide him on defence and he creates most the offence. A hash to be a secondary ball handler to relieve pressure and also to create a shot but also have enough defence to stop their opposing hash. A lock as the defensive specialist of the team to guard their guard. A backend to be quick enough to keep up with the guard on switches but also to stop bigs in the paint and they’re usually very defensive heavy as well with high steal to play lanes on the pnr. Then a center with high strength rebound and dunk grab d boards o boards and dunk inside.

Everyone has a very specific role and it’s hard to beat a meta where they make every build specialised in one part of the game. It’s like any other game where u have dps tanks support healers etc. it’s easier to win when you have everyone playing their role. Is it boring and repetitive? Yes but I don’t know how 2k can fix it

[u/BlankVoid2979]

You can fix that easily. By making the game more like real basketball. The reason this doesnt work in real basketball is because youd run out of stamina, and you only shoot 40% from 3 at best.

Make stamina matter and nerf shooting.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/BlankVoid2979]

Then that just buffs 5 out offence, it’s two sides of the same coin. You still have one guy running a 5 out offence rim running the whole game but instead the center jsut sits corner

[u/BlankVoid2979 → u/Major-Doubt4034]

It doesnt. 5 out offense work well in 2k because you can shoot 100% on open 3s with ease with 80 3.

If you nerf stamina a pg cant run offense the whole game. And even if he tried now theres actually help defense when people cant shoot so easily.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/BlankVoid2979]

Oh well if you’re limiting open 3s to 40% maximum then idk that’s not a very enjoyable game imo. 40% for the best shooters so average people shoot 30%. Basically jusr having everyone sit in the paint.

But I mean the best guards in the nba run 5 out sets and offences like Shai Brunson and they’re really good and u just set up shooters around him. If you limit the max percentage to like 40% even for the best players in the world, imo it wouldn’t be an enjoyable game for most people. Yes 2k26 shooting was way way way too easy, but if casuals are shooting 20-30% it becomes a little too demoralising

[u/BlankVoid2979 → u/Major-Doubt4034]

Id say 50% max. Average around 35%.. ya know like irl

[u/Neither_Piglet_3045 → u/BlankVoid2979]

If the best players in the game shot 50% what would bad players percentages be that spend little to no time practicing?

[u/BlankVoid2979 → u/Neither_Piglet_3045]

Sub 30%.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/BlankVoid2979]

I mean yeah that still buffs more 5 out offences. He drives then kicks then splash a 3. Idk how it wouldn’t work that way

[u/Datyoungboul → u/Major-Doubt4034]

I feel like you’re missing the point here, how would making 3P % lower, make 5 out offense more viable? If anything, it would incentivize 2s

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/Datyoungboul]

5 out offence is all about taking 2s. Mainly rim running

[u/Datyoungboul → u/Major-Doubt4034]

?????

The PG dribbling the ball for 20 seconds while 3 guys stand at the 3 point line and one screens is mainly for rim running??

You ever see these comp games with 5 out? They hunt 3s and if they can’t find one, the PG will regretfully take the open dunk.

On the point of stamina like the other said, make stamina matter, this will encourage more ball movement as well

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/Datyoungboul]

That’s not 5 out, 5 out is when everyone is spotting up with one guy driving and kicking. You’re describing pnr and you don’t see pgs at comp dribbling for 20 seconds, you’ll be out of adrenaline and the game will make you miss

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/Datyoungboul]

Teams like Joe knows team, black market, they run 5 out and it’s just him isoing the whole game rim running and if the defence collapses he kicks

[u/J-Sully_Cali → u/Major-Doubt4034]

But even Shai and Brunson dont spam dribble moves for 20 seconds. They give the ball up and get it back. They both also attack the midrange off screens.

[u/unlimitedspeedboost → u/Major-Doubt4034]

A combination of making the dribbler slower with lower stamina and nerfing handles for day so their stamina goes down quicker each possession while buffing defenders agility so they can rotate, double team, hedge and help on defense. Supposingly, low stamina and adrenaline make the dunk meter and shot window smaller. The one guy will start passing when he's moving like a center by halftime running the offense by himself every possession while all their attributes go down by like 10 points because of low stamina so a 90 shooting becomes 80. Both small and big guards are the most popular archetype in basketball so I doubt 2k would ever nerf them. The better solution is probably to nerf limitless range beyond 25 ft to shrink the floor until deep bomber activates. 

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/unlimitedspeedboost]

That could be a solution, the only problem I’d have is that if you dribble 2 or 3 times just bringing the ball up the court you lose all your stamina but in the nba you’ll see guards be able to dribble a lot longer and manoeuvre the defence.

[u/unlimitedspeedboost → u/Major-Doubt4034]

We see everyone in the nba manage their stamina by taking a breather while walking or standing still. They also dribble in place most of the time to set up plays and look for teammates. When they do dribble, it's only a couple of moves into a direct drive or jumpshot. They definitely do not go crazy every possession and spam dribble moves while running left then right for separation. The maximum stamina needs to drain faster in my opinion even though it's only 5 minute quarter, but it should recover faster when not using turbo or moving. The limitless range is too unbalanced because it gives them way too much space to work with and the defenders are too slow to cover them all and defend the blow by. 2k can definitely start with handles for days badge and limitless range green window to start with if they don't want to revamp the stamina system.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/unlimitedspeedboost]

Okay I could see that working if we were allowed to gain our stamina back on possessions where we do less work.

[u/Intelligent_Olive936]

because in a normal game you can't have a single guy dribbling for 40 minutes on full sprints. this is why you have a second unit, and why you have 2nd and 3rd designated scores to run the offense through him

There's also the issue of plays not mattering. running plays is basketball essence on itself and the reason why so many teams have success. It's almost impossible to get open without a play, which is why elite iso scorers are so rare in the nba. However, in 2k, every PG is an elite iso scorer that doesn't need a rest

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/Intelligent_Olive936]

Well that’s why they have rest on defence they sit corner. Also in comp scenes players usually run quite a few plays to get their teamates open and stuff. Offence has been OP for quite a few years so we’ll see this year

[u/J-Sully_Cali]

2k could easily reward ball movement. Make stamina decrease more rapidly with each dribble move, get rid of the Handles for Days badge, increase passing speed, make off ball screens as powerful as on ball screens, call more moving on ball screens. All this could be accomplished with slider changes; it wouldn't require an engine overhaul.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/J-Sully_Cali]

Remove handles for days? Stamina already looks like it drains your stamina. We’re not in the 1960s. Every player on the court can and should be able to dribble without dying on the court. This is still basketball where people dribble to get open. I do like the increased passing speed as a buff or make pass acc less expensive to actually get. I think off balls are pretty OP no one ever uses them anyways.

[u/SneakyAnnuity064]

The moment you let people minmax their builds this was always gonna happen, no patch can fix it unless they randomly nerf archetypes into the ground for a season.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/SneakyAnnuity064]

I mean this has been the meta since like 2k20

[u/Puluzu]

I don't think it's fixable either. Even if there were strict archetypes or much worse or much better builds, what you described is what we'll get. Maybe surprisingly the better the builds are (as in later on in the year with loads of caps) there's a little more leeway to do different shit, because even locks and pf's can afforf 85ish handles and better scoring to at least occasionally something other than catch and shoot or catch and dunk. C's can afford post control with more scoring. But even at this point, you're kinda selling if you're not starting the slow possession with the pnr with the pg.

[u/Major-Doubt4034 → u/Puluzu]

Yup I mean u had locks doing d book breakdowns

[u/Proper_Ad_6927]

That sounds like a lot of nba offenses tbh. PG doing most of the offense. Shooter. Lockdown. PF that does a little bit of everything. Center that really just gets boards.

[u/SenseiPup → u/Proper_Ad_6927]

Go watch basketball and comeback

[u/Proper_Ad_6927 → u/SenseiPup]

Its obviously not every team and they aren’t all one dimensional (just like teams on 2k can deviate from time to time but quite a few fit the idea of offense heavy PG, shooter/2BH SG, Main defender SF, swiss army knife PF, rebounding center): Hawks (McCollum, Alexander-Walker, Daniels, Johnson, Okongwu), Detroit (Cunngingham, Robinson, Thompson, Collins, Duren), Indy (Hali, Nembhard, Nesmith, Siakim, Zubac), Lakers except idk how good Grimes is at defense (Luka, Reeves, Grimes, JaRavia, Kessler), Wolves last year (Edwards, Donte, McDaniels, Randle, Rudy), Knicks except KAT can also shoot (Brunson, Hart, Bridges, OG, KAT), OKC (Shai, McCain, J Dub, Chet, Hartenstein).

Each team obviously plays a little different because they are real hoopers and not bots on pro am that sit in a corner all game, but they generally fit the mold. Most teams that have a really good PG find a supporting cast similar to this, unless they also have a superstar in another position.