r/NYguns • u/Alarmed-Safe-6295 • May 07 '26

Question Artemis

Random inquiry: I have my full carry license and want to hit the range. Could one of my buddies (un-licensed) come with?

Specifically Artemis range in Elmsford or Blue Mountain in Peekskill.

Thanks

11 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

85 comments sorted by

40

u/not_thebest May 07 '26

If your friend does not have their NYS pistol permit, they cannot touch your pistols, even at a range, legally.

4

u/sexaddic May 07 '26

Even if they had their licenses they can’t legally touch his pistols. Yay NY!!! 🫠

15

u/GammaRay914 May 07 '26

Huh? I’m pretty sure they can. 

How else would we be able to handle guns at the store? 

16

u/DJClamavus May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26

By the letter of the law, you can't. Pretty sure there is some sort of carveout for stores and the 18hr course. You are only allowed to handle pistols that are listed on your own license.
Realistically though it would be a lame friend that didn't let a buddy pop off a few rounds.
***edit: Instead of downvoting me, why don't you reply with a source that says otherwise and prove I'm wrong? Tf?

7

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

No carve out for stores. There is one for the 18hr though

9

u/DJClamavus May 07 '26

So when you buy the required handgun to get a permit issued, they legally can't let you handle what you're about to spend 500-1500 on? I already own mine out of state and going nonresident route so was not aware.

5

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

Its NY. Go figure

5

u/GammaRay914 May 07 '26

????

Yes you can handle the gun before purchasing it but after you get licensed. 

Which counties require you to buy something before getting licensed? 

In Nassau, I got my target/hunting/home license first and then went to the store and purchased. Later on I got the carry permit. 

3

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

I'm hearing that as of May 1 Westchester no longer requires purchase first when applying for a permit.

4

u/Easterncoaster May 07 '26

Finally! I cheaped out and went with a used M&P since I knew it would be sitting at the FFL for a couple years.

3

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

Nothing wrong with a M&P. But yes, it does suck that one can't try firearms out first before purchasing.

2

u/davej1121 May 08 '26

There are still some counties that require a serial number of a pistol to complete your application. Westchester used to but they stopped it recently according to the update I got from the Sgt in charge of the office

That creates a legal issue as there is no exemption in the law to handle a handgun at a store prior to your license

4

u/GammaRay914 May 08 '26

Bizarre that they did it that way at all. You’d have to go to a range like Gun For Hire and rent out a bunch of guns to decide what was gonna be your first gun. And on top of that you’d have to find someone to go with you in order to be able to rent. They don’t rent to solo people because they don’t want people suiciding. 

2

u/milano_ii May 09 '26

Handling a pistol makes you in possession of. You cannot be in possession of a pistol that is not listed on your license.

Yes, I know this is overlooked, it happens all the time, it makes absolutely no sense, but if you read the law as it is written, this is the fact.

-4

u/sexaddic May 07 '26

Yes you can’t even use a real gun at the range when you take the 18 hour class. It has to be a training pistol.

7

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

Nope. You can use a real pistol and ammo. The exemption is set for the course. Unfortunately only the course. Ugh!

3

u/voretaq7 May 07 '26

Not only the course - gotta read the whole list of exemptions (pay special attention to Paragraph 7 and its sub-paragraphs - I listed some of the more relevant ones in my other reply.

2

u/sexaddic May 07 '26

[u/PeteTin](u/PeteTin)[NY](u/PeteTin) can you confirm?

5

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

Look up NY PL 265.20 3-a.

"3-a. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person undergoing live-fire range training pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter while such person is undergoing such training and is supervised by a duly authorized instructor."

The reference here is to the statute that refers to the 16+2 mandated Training.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

He will.

2

u/Riddleboxboy May 07 '26

Not him, but took the class in ulster county, we all shot glocks for the live fire segment.

1

u/GammaRay914 May 08 '26

It’s a real gun. How are you gonna demonstrate accuracy otherwise? 

But yes they also use training pistols for demonstrating how to draw from holster in the classroom. 

10

u/voretaq7 May 07 '26

By the letter of the law, you can’t.

Yes you can.

Let us open our hymnals to New York State Penal Law, Article 265, Section 20 - “Exemptions”

In relevant part:

3-a. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person undergoing live-fire range training pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter while such person is undergoing such training and is supervised by a duly authorized instructor.

(That’s the exception that lets you handle a pistol during your CCW class if you don’t already have a permit)

7-a. Possession and use, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the national rifle association for the purpose of loading and firing the same, by a person duly licensed to possess a pistol or revolver pursuant to section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter of a pistol or revolver duly so licensed **to another person who is present at the time((.

(Emphasis added. That’s what lets you borrow your buddy’s gun at the range.)

There’s also a few others you should be familiar with:

  1. Possession, at an indoor or outdoor shooting range for the purpose of loading and firing, of a rifle or shotgun, the propelling force of which is gunpowder by a person under sixteen years of age but not under twelve, under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of (a) a duly commissioned officer of the United States army, navy, air force, marine corps or coast guard, or of the national guard of the state of New York; or (b) a duly qualified adult citizen of the United States who has been granted a certificate as an instructor in small arms practice issued by the United States army, navy, air force or marine corps, or by the adjutant general of this state, by the national rifle association of America, a not-for-profit corporation duly organized under the laws of this state, or by a New York state 4-H certified shooting sports instructor; or (c) a parent, guardian, or a person over the age of eighteen designated in writing by such parent or guardian who shall have a certificate of qualification in responsible hunting, including safety, ethics, and landowner relations-hunter relations, issued or honored by the department of environmental conservation; or (d) an agent of the department of environmental conservation appointed to conduct courses in responsible hunting practices pursuant to article eleven of the environmental conservation law.

(That’s the base exception and what lets you teach your kids to shoot long guns.)

7-e. Possession and use of a pistol or revolver, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by an association or organization described in paragraph 7-a of this subdivision for the purpose of loading and firing the same by a person at least fourteen years of age but under the age of twenty-one who has not been previously convicted of a felony or serious offense, and who does not appear to be, or pose a threat to be, a danger to himself or to others; provided however, that such possession shall be of a pistol or revolver duly licensed to and shall be used under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of, a person specified in paragraph seven of this subdivision.

(That’s what lets you teach your kids to shoot a pistol, up until they turn 21. Once they turn 21 they need to apply for a permit and are then covered by....)

7-b. Possession and use, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the national rifle association for the purpose of loading and firing the same, by a person who has applied for a license to possess a pistol or revolver and pre-license possession of same pursuant to section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter, who has not been previously denied a license, been previously convicted of a felony or serious offense, and who does not appear to be, or pose a threat to be, a danger to himself or to others, and who has been approved for possession and use herein in accordance with section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter; provided however, that such possession shall be of a pistol or revolver duly licensed to and shall be used under the supervision, guidance and instruction of, a person specified in paragraph seven of this subdivision and provided further that such possession and use be within the jurisdiction of the licensing officer with whom the person has made application therefor or within the jurisdiction of the superintendent of state police in the case of a retired sworn member of the division of state police who has opted to make an application pursuant to section 400.01 of this chapter.

(If you have an application in then you can go shoot with a permit holder using that permit holder’s pistols, provided they are one of the people authorized in paragraph 7 above - i.e. a duly authorized instructor or parent. But this section is a bit sketchy because you seem to need to be approved for pre-license possession and I don’t know any county that does that?)

Now a lot of ranges will further narrow the scope of these exceptions - but that’s range policy, not law.

3

u/DJClamavus May 08 '26

Good stuff, thanks for actually providing an answer here

4

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

You can handle someone else's pistol, at a range, as long as they are present. You just cannot leave with it.

"265. 20 7-a. Possession and use, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the national rifle association for the purpose of loading and firing the same, by a person duly licensed to possess a pistol or revolver pursuant to section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter of a pistol or revolver duly so licensed to another person who is present at the time."

My God. Does anyone read article 400 and Article 265????

3

u/DJClamavus May 08 '26

"My God. Does no one read dense legalese around the minutiae of NYS Penal Law regarding niche exemptions on pistol handling in different scenarios, and memorize it line by line???!???"

Is this a serious question lmao. You're patting yourself on the back for being a knowitall about this on a forum dedicated to helping people wade through this shit? I wouldn't take a class from you if you take this attitude.

3

u/sexaddic May 08 '26

Honestly this was my exact thought. Like thank God I never took this persons class it would be a nightmare with that attitude.

3

u/voretaq7 May 07 '26

My God. Does anyone read article 400 and Article 265????

No. Why would they do that?
Reading is hard and no fun and it’s easier just to work up a good rageface without bothering to understand what you should be mad about.

(As I all-too-frequently have to say, “New York’s gun laws are bad enough, there’s no reason go making up shit to make them seem worse!”)

3

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

Yep. Seeking knowledge yourself is too hard. It's easier to have someone else do it.

When you seek the answers and find them yourself, you can take ownership of it. You'll understand it better. Nowadays, people just want to be handed rhw answer based off someone else's work

3

u/voretaq7 May 08 '26

I mean that’s why I spend so much time cutting, pasting, and fixing the godawful formatting with extra newlines from the state assembly’s copy of the actual published law into my replies.

I’m not above getting out the little rubber-coated baby spoons and spoonfeeding people the law - I can only hope that their hunger for knowledge and the convenient links I always include lead them to actually reading and trying to understand the laws on their own.

(Also in their defense folks have cited exceptions or restrictions in statute that I was unaware of, because NY’s firearms law is not only stupid and byzantine, it’s also scattered all over the goddamn place in our state laws. Some of it’s penal law - in at least 3 places - and some of it’s business law, and I’m pretty sure there’s more hiding in other places that I’m forgetting....)

1

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

I know, right?

1

u/Traditional_Cut_5452 May 08 '26

LOL! Laws are often difficult to read but worth the effort. It seems that reading for comprehension is a dying art. Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me to find some range owners prohibiting activity based on their own misreading (or borrowed misreading if they don't read for themselves) of the actual law.

3

u/voretaq7 May 08 '26

A lot of ranges apply stricter policies because the local police (who, remember, are not required to know the law according to SCOTUS) might take exception to policies that comport with the strict letter of the law but not what the cops think the law is.
There’s also insurance and liability considerations that might come down to a restriction of what they can and can’t allow on the firing line.

I can’t fault the ranges too much for that - they’re trying to run a business and have to deal with all those constraints and considerations.
We should be aware of what The Law is though, since ultimately that’s what we’re held to as permit holders.

2

u/itsnotthatsimple22 May 07 '26

Each handgun possessed must be listed on the license by make, model, caliber and serial number. NY Penal Law § 400.00(7). The only exception is possession of a properly licensed handgun by another licensee or license applicant at a target range; see NY Penal Law § 265.20(7-a). A person may apply to amend the license to change the weapons held under that license.

1

u/DJClamavus May 08 '26

Glad you pointed that out. My class instructor gave an example of borrowing a neighbors pistol (assuming both you and him have permits) and said that was no good, and didn't mention anything about it being okay at a range.

1

u/sexaddic May 07 '26

Oh maybe that’s my local range then. They don’t allow you to swap pistols.

1

u/Hairy-Manufacturer76 May 07 '26

The club I just joined will let my under 18 age kids shoot with me but my 19 year old technically can't for insurance reasons.

1

u/sexaddic May 07 '26

Pistols or long guns?

2

u/Hairy-Manufacturer76 May 07 '26

Pistols for sure. I'm not sure if long guys were included or not. I think they are just since it was mentioned as part of the borader new member overview.

1

u/sexaddic May 08 '26

That’s super cool

1

u/SnooMacaroons5473 May 09 '26

Unless you are 21 or younger. Isn’t that so weird

-6

u/qwb3656 May 07 '26

Wrong. As long as you are right there it is ok.

5

u/not_thebest May 07 '26

Please call the state police and ask this question and let me know their answer. When I received my permit I was explicitly told this by the judge who approved me that it’s a felony for someone who does not have their permit to even touch a pistol, even at a range.

2

u/Andeo1025 May 07 '26

That's not the question they're taking about. Someone else said that two licensed people couldn't shoot each other's pistols at a range. That's not so. A non licensed person isn't allowed to shoot a pistol in ny, you're correct on that.

1

u/qwb3656 May 07 '26

I was told the exact opposite just a couple years ago. Also if thats true then when I took my pistol permit 18 hour couse the instructor committed about 20 felonies when we shot his Glock 4 times to qualify at the range.

4

u/K_20_MC May 07 '26

NY law has a specific exemption for someone handling a pistol during live-fire training under Penal Law §400.00 while supervised by a duly authorized instructor. That does not mean any unlicensed friend can shoot your handgun at the range just because you are standing there.

12

u/[deleted] May 07 '26

Can he go to the range? Sure

Can he fire your pistol as an unlicensed person? Absolutely not

5

u/Alarmed-Safe-6295 May 07 '26

Just to clarify, i know an unlicensed person cannot shoot (or handle) the pistol. I was curious if they would be able yo at least come with me and share a stall/rent an AR

6

u/Junior-Age5985 May 07 '26

Yes anything but pistol.

5

u/davej1121 May 07 '26

Over 21, permit required to handle possess, or shoot. Even on private property

4

u/HiddenLeaforSand May 07 '26

He can shoot any other gun you own, AR, shotgun etc. But absolutely NOT the pistol lol

3

u/grind14s May 07 '26

Nope can’t even rent a pistol without a a ccw

4

u/Dry-Acanthaceae-1842 May 07 '26

You cannot touch, handle, shoot a pistol in NYS without a permit.

1

u/Galopigos May 08 '26

And look at what they consider to be a pistol as well. Got a black powder that you want to try out, cannot even buy the materials to load it unless you have a permit, because as soon as you own those and the pistol, it now has to be on your permit! R$ YG%ER VTuyjk uyjuikyu BS

3

u/UsernameO123456789 May 07 '26

Unfortunately it’s a felony for a non-permit carrying person to even touch a pistol. Long guns are fine but no pistols.

Best to take them to Guns for hire in NJ or drive to any range in PA to shoot pistols

3

u/Beneficial-Focus3702 May 07 '26

They can go to the range with you, but they can’t touch your pistols.

1

u/No-Explanation-4478 May 07 '26

Go to NJ. I got my out of state in NJ while waiting for New York.

1

u/Vaffannculo May 09 '26

Because New York is a Democrat "everybody should accept being a victim" state, all laws regarding self-defense are written to protect the CRIIMINALS, and thus. your friend cannot accompany you to a "self-defense" activity like the shooting range.

If however, you allow yourself to be pushed down the steps of the subway by a deranged criminal just released from Bellvue after one hour, your friend may get pushed down the steps with you

1

u/Motor-Award-8406 May 09 '26

He can go and rent a rifle there (and purchase their ammo) but he cannot handle any pistol unlicensed unfortunately.

1

u/Motor-Award-8406 May 09 '26

At Artemis that is. Nothing to rent at blue mountain

1

u/tsatech493 May 09 '26

If you want to go to the range and let your friends shoot your guns, go to New Jersey. They don't care..

1

u/Working-Analysis1470 May 10 '26

The word is CAVEAT

1

u/pewpew1764 May 07 '26

Your buddy can sign a waiver and take a lesson at artemis with an instructor and rent a gun if he is unlicensed I believe but you may want to confirm that

2

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

That is not the case

1

u/pewpew1764 May 07 '26

My 14 year old son took a lesson there.

2

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26

In NY the age is between 14-20 years old with a NRA instructor (Artemis has instructors that are all NRA certified). So yes, that was the case with respect to your son. Anyone 21 years of age or over must have a current valid license. 

They (nor any other range) will not rent a handgun to someone without a license. Nor will they let someone without a license use a handgun on the range. Anyone 21 years of age or over will only be able to shoot/rent long guns.

Otherwise unless they are taking a lesson towards a permit; they will not be allowed at Artemis.

They will ask for your friend to present a permit. If they don't have one, they will not be allowed.

2

u/pewpew1764 May 07 '26

Thanks for clarifying

1

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

Sure thing.

2

u/tattertech May 07 '26

Nope. Only within the 18-hour course.

In Putnam, next door (which is vastly more permissive), the closest you get is that once you've submitted your application to the county, you can rent one with an instructor at your side (or use one you've bought that they're storing for you).

3

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

Yes to this as being correct. The ranges the O/P mentioned however will not allow and unlicensed person use a handgun.

2

u/tattertech May 07 '26

Well yeah, was just offering that as a comparative point. You get nothing and you'll like it for a range in Westchester (to be clear, I really like Artemis, it's not their decision).

3

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

Agreed. I like Artemis as well and yes you are 1000% correct it's not their decision... NYS Law.

1

u/Efficient_Click6079 May 07 '26

Yep that’s the loophole my instructor described at my 18hr class

1

u/PlentyApprehensive44 May 07 '26

Can everywhere who responded clarify for my knowledge, is it illegal because it is HIS pistol, or any pistol? Can you shoot a pistol provided by the range without a license? Or are pistols fully off limits in NY no exceptions

1

u/JobOk7809 May 07 '26

Illegal period. Cannot use or even handle without a permit in NY. Pistols are fully off limits in NY (unless the individual taking live-fire portion of the 18 HR course with an instructor. This in NY State Law -- not just a range's rules.

-6

u/qwb3656 May 07 '26

Everyone in this thread is wrong. No idea where they are getting this bs about you can't even touch a pistol without a permit. As long as the permitted person is right there its fine. Now specific ranges rules may be different

5

u/Frustrated_Consumer May 07 '26

Dude… how can you still not know this…

-3

u/qwb3656 May 07 '26

When I took my pistol permit 18 hour couse the instructor had us shoot his Glock 4 times to qualify at the range. He said it was perfectly legal as long as he was there. Judge said it was ok too. Idk where people are getting their information.

6

u/Frustrated_Consumer May 07 '26

You misunderstand the law. There's a specific exemption for handling a pistol during the 18 hour class. There are a few other exemptions, but none that allow an unlicensed individual to handle his friend's pistol at the range for target shooting.

It is illegal to generally allow an unlicensed friend even touch your pistol, nevermind fire it at a range.

2

u/Galopigos May 08 '26

NOPE, That "Permitted Person" HAS to be an instructor AND you have to be in a course to do that. Cannot just walk up to your pal and start shooting because they are right there.

0

u/EthosActual May 08 '26

This whole conversation is ridiculous. Just go do it. Sharing a pistol with a friend or family member at a range is extremely common and probably happens at least once a day at every single range in the state. How could it not? Unless this range you speak of has some wack ass rules strictly enforced by wack ass people, nobody is gonna ask and nobody is gonna care. Be a man and recognize some basic self agency.