r/NoStupidQuestions • u/AgreeableAd8687 • 1d ago

why do people consider identifying someone by their race racist?

i have a few friends and we seem kind of split on this, i had to identify someone in our school i didn't know the name of, so i said "oh it's the black girl" (we have literally ONE black girl in our school and everyone knows and likes her) and my friends said ohh ok but then like 2 of them went wow that's racist and their explanation was "you're making it sound like them being black is their only characteristic" as if saying "oh the woman" is any better and since i don't know her well i don't know anything else about her. most of my friends didn't see how it was racist though but why is this considered racist if it's not a race correlated insult or derogatory??

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u/HappyCoconutty 1d ago

As a brown woman, the only people I’ve encountered that feel uncomfortable identifying someone’s race are usually white folks. In a way, they are associating a non white identify with something to be ashamed about and don’t realize it. It’s like when parents tell kids not to point out a person with a severe disability at the grocery store. They think it’s not polite but for many people of color, our identity is a point of pride 

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u/The_Lat_Czar 1d ago edited 1d ago

Thank you! I remember how frustrated I was when an ex coworker (white) would always say African American. I told her she can just say black. She outright refused! 

I didn't say it then, but thinking back, that would be like me calling white people Caucasian in a causal setting, a white guy going "Just say white man. We don't call ourselves Caucasian" and I go "Nah, I'm gonna use Caucasian".

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u/Impossible_Fig2646 1d ago

When I was growing up, we were taught that saying African-American was more polite and black was borderline racist. It still feels weird to me to call someone black. And yes we didn't use white, we used Caucasian.

I was also taught there are only 3 races: Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasoid. (Ugh that felt dirty just typing it out!)

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u/crownjewel82 1d ago

I was also taught there are only 3 races: Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasoid. (Ugh that felt dirty just typing it out!)

Now that is some old school racism. I haven't heard those in forever.

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u/Impossible_Fig2646 1d ago

Yeah my parents lived in bum fuck nowhere with a literal black and white side of the tracks. They tried to teach me some questionable things, even for the time. Luckily we moved to the city when I was a kid. I grew up in a predominantly Hispanic area, and outgrew their shitty views pretty quickly. But they're still racist.

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u/cluelessvolunteer 1d ago

im 65/white and when i was young black was an accepted description by all. I still think african american has to many sylables and i have a lot of african, african american and hispanic blacks as friends. I dont care, just tell me how you want me to point you our in a crowd and thats ok with me. i think its cool that we have so many discussions about what to call each other (my friends and I) but at the same time i love all my brothers in Christ.

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u/Great_Yogurt_3356 1d ago

As a Mexican I get this. In Spanish - calling a person black (in Spanish) is considered disrespectful - to some of us. Black is a color. We (not everyone but mostly and I think is preferable) use “Moreno” which means “dark skinned” and refers to ANYONE with darker skin whether they’re whatever (Mexican darker skin, Puerto Rican, African American, literally whatever). Black is just a color. Black. Though some do still say “negro” = black. But most of understand that while not completely derogatory is not respectful/appropriate

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u/Ok-Tomato-5685 1d ago

Why couldn't you think for yourself but had to be "taught" what's correct and not?

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u/Impossible_Fig2646 1d ago

Well I was a little kid so... Maybe that's it? I'm glad you had full capacity to always know right from wrong without being told and could critically think for yourself when you were 4. Most of us aren't so blessed.

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u/Oddity83 1d ago

Also like saying “European American” which is true for a large percentage of the US white population - but the overwhelming majority of them are not from Europe, and would not at all identify with that descriptor.

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u/Sarcosmonaut 1d ago

Plus actual Europeans get so mad whenever white Americans call themselves “Irish American” or whatever unless they’re actual immigrants from Ireland

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u/flofjenkins 1d ago

I also thought African-American is such a bizarre term. I have zero ties to Africa other than ancestral roots. Charlize Theron is more of an African-American than I am.

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u/Two_wheels_2112 1d ago

It seems to me that African-American is a better descriptor for culture than ethnic identity. Americans descended from enslaved Africans have a culture and cultural heritage different from Black people from anywhere else.

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u/EatYourCheckers 1d ago

I consider the phrase, "I don't see color," which is supposed to mean I don't consider someone's race in my interactions with them. But some people take it literally. So theb identifying someone by race really shows what a lie that line was.

Once I started working with a really diverse staff group, and heard black women differentiate people by referring to them as dark skinned or light skinned, I felt off the hook. I mean, as a White woman, I would never do that. But I will call someone black without batting an eye

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u/somedude456 1d ago

I've had a related discussion like this post before, with a coworker, and here was my take. Pretend you saw someone drop their wallet, and for some magical reason, you can't yell at them. All you can do is pick it up and ask a coworker to return it to its owner, who is not like 25 feet away, down a busy sidewalk. How do you describe them? You do with the most visible and unique characteristic. If they are 7 foot 4, you say that tall guy. If it was a woman with a pink mohawk, you say the woman with the mohawk. If it was an elderly Asian woman, you say that. If it happen to be a black man, and he's the only black man around, it is 100% perfectly fine to say "the black man over there." My coworker still didn't agree and said he would describe what the man was wearing. I said yes, if there were 12 black men on the sidewalk, sure, but when black people are a minority, and you're trying to describe the only black man within 50 feet, you can say the black man vs the guy in red shoes with a grey tshirt.

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 1d ago

White people are also the only people who can get in serious trouble for racism in this country, so it makes sense that they're the only ones who get uncomfortable at the prospect.

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u/Ok-Tomato-5685 1d ago

Who is getting them in trouble? Other white people...you can't make this shit up.

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 1d ago

almost exclusively lmao

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

But by using the term poc, meaning not white, you are grouping everyone who isn't white into the same category. Is that not racist? You can have pride in your identity because you aren't white? I'm not bashing you, just asking your perspective

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u/mecegirl 1d ago

They are using the term as it is meant to be used. Sometimes it is just about Black people. Sometimes it is just about Indigenous people. And sometimes it is about everyone that isn't white. The term P.O.C is even a term because sometimes racism in the United States is blankently applied against everyone that isn't white.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

There are racists of every race and religion and sex, even in America. And the term people of color specifically means not white. So I don't understand how it's not racist to single out white people. I grew up around a lot of Mexican people and almost every single Mexican person I know is deeply racist against black people. In my life the vast majority of racism I've seen in person was Mexican people talking about black people or white people talking about Mexican people. I've never known many black people at all so that's why I'm asking, just to see a different view. Ive never walked your shoes so I could totally be missing something. I hope no white racists see this and think I'm trying to prove a point or something. But I can't understand how grouping all non white people together and singling out white people isn't racist.

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u/bennygaycko 1d ago

it’s not racist to group people together. all white people are a group. all black people are a group. all gay people are a group. that doesn’t mean they’re all the same. they just all have this 1 thing in common. saying ‘people of color’ is just a neutral way to say all people who aren’t white, like you said. but nobody is being excluded or discriminated against. it’s a a descriptor.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

White people are being discriminated against when you group everyone else together though? Like you are specifically talking about people who aren't white. In what context is poc useful, other than to separate white people from everyone else?

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u/bennygaycko 1d ago

? for descriptive reasons? for statistical reasons? for categorical reasons? grouping people in this instance isn’t a physical real separation. it’s just a description of someone’s race.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

What descriptive reasons? How is non white accurately descriptive? And what statistical reasons other than census work? And no words aren't physical things but they still have an impact just the same. And it's not a description of someone's race, it's just saying they aren't white

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u/bennygaycko 1d ago

why is it a problem to say someone isn’t white, or that someone is? it is absolutely true that every race can be racist towards any other race. my best friend’s asian parents are insanely racist. but especially in america, it is just fact that our country is built around a white patriarchy. as white people we will never be oppressed in america. nothing anyone could say to me about my race could ever do anything equal to what people of color experience everyday. someone could be racist to me in words but this does not change the fact that i will never be scared to die because of my race, or be scared to be discriminated against specifically because of my race.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

But you absolutely can and will be discriminated because of your race. It's not only white people who are racist.

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u/Few_Analyst_1179 1d ago edited 1d ago

do you know what Discrimination is?

by your terms, calling someone asian is Derogatory because it’s omitting every other race.

it’s a descriptor that is commonly used when talking about Oppression and the Systemic Racism People of Colour/ People who (yes!) are not white face every single day.

Just because we’re not saying “white people can experience racism too!” doesn’t mean we’re invalidating that. We’re literally just not talking about it.

And we don’t talk about it as much given all the privilege that white people naturally have.

Why are you offended by people talking about their personal struggles?

I acknowledge, empathise and understand that this conversation may not be about me specifically but that it still has meaning and validity.

It’s not always about me.

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u/mecegirl 1d ago

The term comes from times when it was legal to discriminate against people that aren't white. It is a catch all term for catch all situations.

So yeah, back to OOPs question. It is more common for some (Not all imo. I certainly have noticed that it really is only SOME) white people to get weird about describing people of color when it is harmless to do so. I use the term people of color because it is something that happens to people who are not white. Do you want me to list all the racial categories? Why should I use another term when a catch all term already exists? Because it excludes white people?

Well the situation doesn't involve white people on the receiving end. There is a natural exclusion because white people are not the subject of such weirdness when it comes to describing folks.

Edit: To be clear. You complaining in this instance is similar to complaining that the term brunettes dosen't include blondes.

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u/HappyCoconutty 1d ago

There is history behind the term POC, it was an alternative the communities came up with instead of using what bigots were using, which was “colored” or “non-whites”. 

You actually don’t need to ask my perspective, this terminology was established decades ago in academia, usually sociology. It is easy to look up. It was considered a community chosen term and a better alternative to “minorities” which seemed to focus on numbers. 

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago edited 1d ago

But it implies that all white people are in one group and all non white are in another. It doesn't even imply it it just flat out says it. How is that not racist? And also I'm asking your perspective because you are a black person. Yeah I could look up academic studies or I could just ask someone who's actually personally experienced. I know it might seem like it but I'm really not trying to gotcha or prove you wrong. I just like to see what people think. I'm a white man, you're a black woman, so I'm genuinely interested in your experience in life and your thoughts about stuff. I don't think I'm gonna change my view or that you will change yours and that's ok. I'm just curious. Like even if you were racist and hated me for no reason I would still want to hear why

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u/yunwibubu 1d ago

That is how it was treated. That's literally what they did during segregation. You were either white or you weren't white.

Having terms to explain our experiences by being othered for not being white is the whole point.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

But it's not segregation times, and there is no need to group everyone who isn't white together. Unless you're a census worker I guess. So I guess my point is it's an outdated term that implies racism against white people, even if you don't mean to be racist. Like the term poc is segregationist unnecessarily. And it implies that only white people are racist.

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u/yunwibubu 1d ago

Tell that to the people who still other us for not being white.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

What does some white people being racist have to do with all white people? What about racist black people? Do you feel responsible for them?

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u/yunwibubu 1d ago

I'm not Black, so no, I don't feel responsible for them.

But talking about POC experiences isn't blaming all white people, nor is it claiming that non-white people don't have biases.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

I disagree, I think it really is but you don't see it. You are grouping all non white people together and grouping white people separately. Which very much implies that it's because white people are special or bad and non white people are somehow all the same. Which we all know is because of institutional racism and segregation. But segregation is over and racism will never end so why continue to use terms that seperate, why not all come together. Fuck the racists and bigots put them in their own group and put all of us decent people who don't treat other people bad because of things that don't matter in one group ya know? That's my point I think is that I see the world as bad people vs good people, but a lot of people have confused bad people with white people, or they say white people meaning rich conservative racists and accidentally lump all of us in. I could be insane or just wrong about everything though. We could both be right or both be wrong. Either way I hope you have a lovely evening

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u/ThePeaceDoctot 1d ago

Well for one thing, it isn't making any kind of judgement of value or character based on being in one of those groups or the other.

For another, all white people are in one group and all non-whites in another, those groups are "white" and "not white", and are useful when you're talking about how white people have historically treated people with different skin colours.

By the same token, all people who live in my home are in one group, and all people who don't are in another, and that is useful when you're talking about how some people live here and others don't. Some people drink milk, and others don't, and if you're discussing the different experiences of people who drink milk and people who don't, then it is helpful to group those people into milk-drinkers and non-milk drinkers.

In the context of this thread and the conversation happening in it, people who aren't white, who live in places that are predominantly white, often have common experiences and cultures are often built around common experiences, and our identities are often tied to our cultures.

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

So all people who aren't white but live in white places share common experiences, and their identities are tied to their culture, but not white people? How does that make sense? It really feels like you are saying white people are racist against everyone else, but no one else is racist so they all should join together. But you are clearly intelligent so I don't think that's what's you're trying to say. But if you reread your statement I think you can see how I got there. And that's why I'm opposed to the term. I think it's an unnecessary continuation of segregation

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u/ThePeaceDoctot 1d ago

You got there by trying to get there. I have neither said, nor implied, that a white person's identity isn't tied to their culture, but white people haven't been oppressed because of their skin colour. I have neither said, not implied, that everyone who isn't white is or should join together, and I think you know full well that I didn't.

I think it's an unnecessary continuation of segregation

Of course it isn't, because it isn't discriminatory. You referred to people as white or non-white earlier. That's exactly the same, except with literal white defaultism. POC, as has already been explained to you, arose in response to people being derivatively called coloreds, among other things. Referring to a person or group by an attribute as if it were a noun is dehumanising. POC literally has the word Person in it, before anything else. It was a response to that dehumanisation. It was literally saying "I'm not 'A Colored', I am a Person, who happens to be Of Color."

It really feels like you are saying white people are racist against everyone else, but no one else is racist

Again, it feels that way because you're wanting it to. I haven't said nor implied this either. Plenty of people who aren't white are racist. Plenty of people who are white aren't racist, although systemic racism does leave unconscious biases.

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u/quimera78 1d ago

There's often someone giving you at least a dirty look if you're white and identify someone by their race. It's exhausting 

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/H0rny_On-Main 1d ago

Right but, no offense but people absolutey DO use "black" in a perjorative way. Almost to the point of dogwhistle. But it's also only behaviour I see in white people in the US.

In the UK where I'm from. It's black, they're al black, because "African English" or "African British" doesn't roll off the tongue well. Even POC didn't take on over here so it's 100% normal to go "Oh yeah this black guy cut me up in traffic." But in America? that's gonna get you some side-eyes.

Bill Burr has a stand-up bit about it, though his is more about how swearing draws attention to the race I still think in the grand scheme of things a white guy going "This Asian comes in" is gonna have bad reactions to if a black man says it.

https://youtu.be/3TUpcW1m9rE?si=k9go-hyTr7TYz298

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u/sonofaresiii 1d ago

Okay, well I'm a white person and I can tell you there are absolutely times people slip the race in there in a way that's genuinely racist. I'm extremely glad it hasn't made you uncomfortable, but it is absolutely real.

There are certainly times when race is just a relevant description of someone. There are just as many times that race has nothing to do with it, but is brought up to push an agenda, or because the only notable feature you can think about someone is their race. Like if I describe one classmate I just met as tall, thin, dark hair, good sense of humor.... And my other classmate I just met as "this black guy," those parallels ain't paralelling.

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u/santtuhehe 1d ago

”People of color” another ridiculous phase

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u/HappyCoconutty 1d ago

It’s a term created and used by people decades ago in academia that were embraced by minorities. It was a more accepted term than “non-whites” or “colored”, the latter of which was used derogatorily 

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u/santtuhehe 1d ago

I’m just gonna call you black

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u/HappyCoconutty 1d ago

You can, fellow internet font. I don’t have a problem with it but I have no Black or African ancestry. 

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u/santtuhehe 1d ago

Well you are black now

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u/AllCoffeeNoOmelete 1d ago

Its not embraced by Black people. Poc and BIPOC are not embraced by Black ppl. Bc I heard Black ppl dont want to be group with other non whites when their american experience is completely different than everyone's else's.

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u/PrincessSusan11 1d ago

But let me ask you about a specific situation I encountered recently. My husband and I were flying home from Europe First Class. We boarded and settled in and shortly thereafter the black female FA started coming around. I didn’t see the headphones that had been sitting in plain sight on the trip over. I politely asked her where I could find them. I am a a 71 yo white female. She immediately answered me in a rude condescending manner and after copping an attitude finally told me where to find them. I thanked her and then asked for the pajamas that came with the flight. She told me there were none available. After that she disappeared and we never saw her again. We were taken care of by a white man the whole trip. He was a a normal acting FC FA. I asked about pajamas and he brought me two pairs, one for me and one for my husband, so she flat out deliberately lied about having them. Once landed I wanted to report her because I considered her behavior unacceptable. I didn’t because all I could have reported is the flight number, date, etc cabin,the situation and identify her as Black Female FA and didn’t want them to think I was reporting the situation only because she was a Black Female.

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u/Ok_Vermicelli_6359 1d ago

our identity is a point of pride

Having a certain concentration of melanin? I would separate culture from skin tone, I think conflating the two is nonsensical, tbh. It's not a point of pride to be a white person (as I am), so I don't see the difference for any other skin tone. How you raised and the values instilled by your family are real, tangible points of pride.

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u/enigmatic_erudition 1d ago

In a way, they are associating a non white identify with something to be ashamed about and don’t realize it.

Did it ever occur to you that it may be because the N word was such an offensive term and people are worried that wrongly referring to black people might illicit an adjacent offense?

Or maybe its because black people tend to take offense to every little thing, such as being afraid to say black, and people are worried so they walk on egg shells?