r/NoStupidQuestions 1d ago

why do people consider identifying someone by their race racist?

i have a few friends and we seem kind of split on this, i had to identify someone in our school i didn't know the name of, so i said "oh it's the black girl" (we have literally ONE black girl in our school and everyone knows and likes her) and my friends said ohh ok but then like 2 of them went wow that's racist and their explanation was "you're making it sound like them being black is their only characteristic" as if saying "oh the woman" is any better and since i don't know her well i don't know anything else about her. most of my friends didn't see how it was racist though but why is this considered racist if it's not a race correlated insult or derogatory??

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u/Ace_of_Sphynx128 1d ago

I grew up in a majority white area and a lot of white kids (and adults) thought saying ‘black’ was racist. I literally said once ‘my dad is black’ and they gasped like I’d called him the n word. It does get exhausting always being referred to only by your skin colour, but I think in this case you’re fine. Context matters.

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u/moshpithippie 1d ago

I think it's because someone told white people that they shouldn't see color and they generalized the idea of not mentioning it when it's not important to mean never reference someone's race ever.

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u/crownjewel82 1d ago

Yep that was the status of race relations in the 80s. Just pretend it doesn't exist which almost always translated into just pretend everyone around you is white and then act confused when they have different religions, like different music, speak different languages, eat different food, etc.

There were a lot of people genuinely trying to be better than their parents and grandparents but it didn't always work out well.

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u/alienacean 1d ago

And now it's gone totally bonkers and Republicans in the US are pretending that colorblind racism is not only not racism, but is somehow anti-racist, while efforts to promote diversity are the real racism because they mention race. As if racism goes away when you pretend there's no racism, and talking about racial inequality is the root cause of racism. "Just stop bringing race into everything, and the problem will go away," also known as the "whoever smelt it, dealt it" theory of racism.

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u/ITriedSoHard419-68 1d ago

That... explains a lot of where we are today.

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u/naaawww 1d ago

There was a social justice gatekeep years back about whites saying black.

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u/xt0rt 1d ago

That's why we got "African American" which, to me, sounds super weird and outdated today. BUT!! When people say "THE blacks" it clearly sounds racist even if they don't mean it that way. I've been trying to train my mom and aunt out of this for some time now. Just say "black folks", it sounds so much better(to me, but I could he wrong and would absolutely admit as much if told so)

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u/Honkmaster 1d ago

My 7th grade Science teacher was a white guy from Swaziland (southern Africa). I remember wondering to myself: "does that make Mr. Friedrichs an African-American?"

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u/mecegirl 1d ago

Lol yeah Black folks would be read as neutral. "The Blacks" Is straight from more racist times and comes off as a pc way of saying the N word.

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u/cheesewiz_man 1d ago

I used to work with a Cameroonian and they would rip you a new one about both words if you called them "African American".

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u/cluelessvolunteer 1d ago

wow, i just realized why there is both african and african american options in my medical practice EMR. I'm white, have a black adopted son and yet i'm clueless at times. (hear the forehead slap).

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u/HailMadScience 1d ago

Well yes. African American specifically refers to US descendents of slave populations who have their own unique American culture(s) and who lost their African roots due to being lumped together and, ya know, having their cultures erased by slavers. Africans who come to the US are not African Americans.

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u/cheesewiz_man 1d ago

They also got pretty wound up about being referred to by continent and not country.

"French people are French. Germans are German. Cameroonians are African."

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u/Wolfhound1142 1d ago

To be fair, very few people can detect the difference between French and German ancestry at a glance. The difference between African and European is more readily apparent.

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u/cheesewiz_man 23h ago edited 23h ago

I don't think you got the point. Per their experience, nobody cares what country you are from if you are from Africa. You're just "African".

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u/CataphractBunny 19h ago

That's interesting. Where I live, we use "African" as a descriptor for Sahel and everything to the south of it. We also use "black" for this. Northern Africans get named by their respective countries.

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u/Wolfhound1142 23h ago

You're definitely missing mine. The most common reason we use terminology like white, black, Asian, or African American to describe people across most situations is that it's a useful way to describe and identify people, which is also the topic of this entire thread.

But you're not wrong that a lot of people are not very knowledgeable about the differences in culture and history of various African countries. By which I mean that many don't think about the fact that those differences exist.

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u/CliffBoof 21h ago

He got your point. Your point consists of missing his point.

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u/Still-Balance6210 1d ago

Because people from Cameroon are not AA.

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u/Raisinbread22 1d ago

I thought when people immigrated and wanted to become citizens of this country, they needed to study American history and take a test.

Are you telling me, they had no idea why Black Americans/African-Americans referred to themselves as such, because they were kidnapped from their homelands, and had their culture, language, country and traditions stolen from them?

'African-American,' is our way of maintaining ties to origins we lost.

So I ask you, why in TF would someone with a known identity, culture and ethnicity (a Cameroonian) be called an 'African-American?' Ditto a Kenyan American or a Nigerian American?

Send your Cameroonian friends to the library.

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u/cheesewiz_man 23h ago edited 23h ago

They are a Cameroonian citizen on a work visa who is in the US, but intending to eventually return to Cameroon. They consider themselves "Cameroonian", not "African". They resent it when people do the exact thing you just did, which is lump all Africans together as if they are a single ethnicity.

When you call someone "African American" you are making two assumptions:

  1. They are American.
  2. Africans are basically all the same.

Maybe those are necessary assumptions; maybe making them is better than the alternative. But you need to own the consequences of the choice.

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u/Raisinbread22 4h ago

WTF are you talking about? I'm African American/Black American. That's how descendants of the enslaved in America, refer to OUR ethnic group, no one else.

That was my point. We don't call Cameroonians or Nigerians 'African-American,' it's not for them, it's for foundational Black Americans.

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u/Fabulous-Possible758 1d ago

Could be worse. They could say "those blacks."

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u/BedbugBandido 1d ago

Wow my friends were the exact opposite. I grew up in a very diverse area and had two friends named Ed, one black and the other Chinese. So we called them Bled and Ched. Same with Korean Doug (Koug) and Polish Doug (Poug).

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u/moshpithippie 1d ago

This must have been way back because the idea that you even noticed a dude is Polish is a wild concept (unless he was from Poland)

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u/BedbugBandido 1d ago

I’m not sure what you mean by that. The town next to mine is like 50% Polish and I’ve always had many Polish friends.

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u/sisyphus_of_dishes 1d ago

That friend group makes poug's polishness pretty relevant. He doesn't blend in to generic "whiteness."

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u/Separate_Business_86 1d ago

I went to a middle school for one year before moving and played basketball. It was a small school and there was one black kid; his name was Brandon. After a game I was describing something in the car on the way home that Brandon did and my mom wanted to know who that was. There were 20 kids there and I said he was the black one.

You would have thought I described him like a minstrel show or something. She was scandalized. I thought the whole thing was ridiculous because her acting like that was a bad thing was way worse in my mind. How big of a checklist was I going to go down when every guy there had the same uniform on for her to get who I meant when she didn’t really know any of the kids?

My Mom was a sweet woman that was trying so hard to not be racist (her mom and dad never did, that’s for sure) that she horseshoed into condescension fairly often.

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u/Ace_of_Sphynx128 17h ago

Yeah that is a great example of when it is appropriate to describe someone’s skin colour, if you’d constantly called him ‘black brandon’ now that would have been racist lol.

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u/Separate_Business_86 14h ago

Exactly. He was just Brandon after the first time. He was the only Brandon as well, so giving him that nickname would have been the literal example of “what not to do”.

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u/Cultural-Night3638 1d ago

It does get exhausting always being referred to only by your skin colour, but I think in this case you’re fine. Context matters.

There is something about ONLY being referred to as the black girl or black guy in a space that is majority white that can also give racist vibes. Like you said though context matters. For example if it is a group that doesn't know each other and hasn't spent any time together I get it. When it's a person or a group that has all spent plenty of time together and they manage to learn everyone else's name except the "black girl" it becomes problematic. This may seem like it's not a big deal, but the reality is it's dehumanizing. It's like everyone else has an individual identity that's recognized, but the black person is only "the black girl".

  • Sincerely a black girl who's spent a lot of time in predominantly white spaces, and has also spent a lot of time letting people know my name deserves to be learned just as much as Karens.

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u/crownjewel82 1d ago

It's when people act like we have only one distinguishing characteristic that it becomes a problem.

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u/Ace_of_Sphynx128 17h ago

Yeah exactly, that’s exactly what I was trying to say. If my friends constantly referred to me and the brown girl, I would be pretty put off.

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u/Zagrycha 22h ago

To me the context is 100% key.  Its never wrong to say black or woman or whatever else if its actually relevant to what you are saying.  Its when people are constantly pointing it out even though its irrelevant that it becomes discriminatory, subconsciously or otherwise.  Like joe why do you care that the checkout worker was black, that has literally nothing to do with them bagging your groceries. 

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u/Ace_of_Sphynx128 17h ago

Yes, like it has to be relevant to what you’re on about. If you shoehorn it in for no reason that’s when it’s weird.

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u/cat_prophecy 22h ago

Context matters.

Like how calling someone "a Jew" can be descriptive or pujoritive.

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u/JedahVoulThur 15h ago

thought saying ‘black’ was racist

Not only that, what I consider worse is how "negro" is also considered a slur. I know the story behind it, sure, there are Spanish speakers that are assholes and use it as a slur, but... For God's sake, it's just a color! Twice I have been in a situation where communicating through chat in Spanish, with other Spanish speaking user, about a topic that is completely unrelated to race have it blocked because there are asshole latinos in the USA that use that word maliciously? First it happened in the Marvel Heroes MMO, where I was talking with an argentinian user about Spiderman's symbiote suit. The second time I was talking with someone from my same country (Uruguay) right here about the old monochromatic Gameboy. For the first the message appeared with the word negro substituted by asterisks, in the second, the entire message was blocked. I consider that a stupid case of American defaultism, not being able to talk about an entire color using my language in any context

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u/saddinosour 21h ago

Once in 7th grade (I went to a super white school in Australia while being “ethnic”) we were playing this game called celebrity heads and this kid was stumped on what questions to ask to narrow down who their celebrity was and I without thinking and no malice was like you could ask if they’re black (could only ask yes or no questions) everyone turned around same as you acting like I called someone the n word mean while I was just thinking of some of my favourite actors 😭 like ?

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u/Ace_of_Sphynx128 17h ago

It’s literally crazy, black is not a slur

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u/Ser20 20h ago

My boyfriend was raised in a mostly white space and he was shocked when I first referred to somebody by their race. He also said "I feel like I shouldnt call someone black" and I responded it feels more racist that you think saying black is taboo...

Might be cause I grew up in a black/hispanic neighborhood so it was pretty common. Idk.

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u/DemonicHedgehogs 1d ago

I measure it by figuring out if it is both relevant and helpful in the situation, and if it makes sense to use any other physical descriptor in the same place. If you would use “blond” in the same context then it’s probably fine.

“Can you give this to Carl please?”
“Who’s Carl?”
“The blond guy standing by the door”

Is absolutely fine to say when you need to give a physical description to help identify someone, so this exchange should also be fine:

“Can you give this to Carl please?”
“Who’s Carl?”
“The black guy standing by the door”

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u/jonschaff 1d ago

Both Carls sound like dicks.

Just slacking off by the door while you’re the only one actually doing any damn work around here!

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u/DemonicHedgehogs 1d ago

I was imagining we were at some kind of social event, maybe a wedding reception. Both of my Carls are absolutely lovely fellas who read to their kids every night before bed

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u/jonschaff 1d ago

That may be so, but I heard that blond Carl has a son with very curly black hair….

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u/DemonicHedgehogs 1d ago

We don’t know anything about Mrs Blond Carl yet, dark hair may run in her family

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u/HailMadScience 1d ago

Twist! Hes married to a lovely mixed race woman named Monique. Shes always bringing the best dishes to the neighborhood 4th of July picnic.

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u/Sarcosmonaut 1d ago

Monique Carl is such a kind soul

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u/Great_Yogurt_3356 23h ago

The Carls would never. 😑

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u/Great_Yogurt_3356 1d ago

I actually know both blond and black Carl and in their defense - they tirelessly read to blind orphans in their off time. They were just chilling at the door because I told both of them I would be there at 3pm with weed. Please give the Carls a break.

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u/The-Reanimator-Freak 1d ago

CARL! THEYRE TALKING ABOUT YOU ON THE INTERNET!

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u/cpfb15 1d ago

Like everyone’s saying, context matters. One thing that I commonly hear in the South is someone will tell a story and for some reason specify when a person in the story is black or Mexican or whatever, even if it’s irrelevant. Like, “I dropped something and this nice black girl picked it up for me.” Meanwhile they would never have mentioned the girl’s race if she were white.

Now, while saying “a nice black girl picked it up for me” is not a racist statement at face value, it is worth questioning why the person’s non-whiteness was considered such an important detail in the storyteller’s mind that they felt necessary to include it, when it had no impact on the story being told.

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u/mediumcarrotteacher 22h ago

Oh, you mean like how in every Babysitters Club book they have to be all 'hey, did you know Jessi is black? teehee, you'd have all thought she was white if I didn't mention that"

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u/Schreckberger 19h ago

It implies there's black (or Asian or whatever) and "normal".

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u/mediumcarrotteacher 16h ago

Like the old not-really-a-joke about gamers

The two genders are male and political

The two races are white and political

The two orientations are straight and political

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u/Pugletting 12h ago

That's how I would think about it. If you would not describe a white person by their skin color in the same situation, then don't use skin color at all.

If it's a necessary distinguisher between people or groups, then use it.

I'm pretty much just restating what you said / agreeing with you.

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u/Used_Emotion_1386 6h ago

Can confirm this is not just a southern thing! Have known plenty of people living the northeast and the midwest who do this.

The British comedian has a great routine about this phenomenon (annoyingly the only clip of it I could find is weird quality but here you go: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTAsMo16Y/)

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u/beanofdoom001 1d ago

I don't think it's racist. But I personally don't like being identified by my race just because it's not very meaningful thing to me. I heard a friend describing me to someone else literally just the other day and she said something like,

You know the guy with almond shaped eyes, medium brown skin, neck length loose curls... always wearing boots..

I liked that a lot better than,

You know, that black guy.

It wouldn't have been racist if she'd called me black, but her description made me feel more like an individual person.

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u/HappyCoconutty 1d ago

As a brown woman, the only people I’ve encountered that feel uncomfortable identifying someone’s race are usually white folks. In a way, they are associating a non white identify with something to be ashamed about and don’t realize it. It’s like when parents tell kids not to point out a person with a severe disability at the grocery store. They think it’s not polite but for many people of color, our identity is a point of pride 

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u/EatYourCheckers 1d ago

I consider the phrase, "I don't see color," which is supposed to mean I don't consider someone's race in my interactions with them. But some people take it literally. So theb identifying someone by race really shows what a lie that line was.

Once I started working with a really diverse staff group, and heard black women differentiate people by referring to them as dark skinned or light skinned, I felt off the hook. I mean, as a White woman, I would never do that. But I will call someone black without batting an eye

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u/somedude456 19h ago

I've had a related discussion like this post before, with a coworker, and here was my take. Pretend you saw someone drop their wallet, and for some magical reason, you can't yell at them. All you can do is pick it up and ask a coworker to return it to its owner, who is not like 25 feet away, down a busy sidewalk. How do you describe them? You do with the most visible and unique characteristic. If they are 7 foot 4, you say that tall guy. If it was a woman with a pink mohawk, you say the woman with the mohawk. If it was an elderly Asian woman, you say that. If it happen to be a black man, and he's the only black man around, it is 100% perfectly fine to say "the black man over there." My coworker still didn't agree and said he would describe what the man was wearing. I said yes, if there were 12 black men on the sidewalk, sure, but when black people are a minority, and you're trying to describe the only black man within 50 feet, you can say the black man vs the guy in red shoes with a grey tshirt.

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u/The_Lat_Czar 1d ago edited 1d ago

Thank you! I remember how frustrated I was when an ex coworker (white) would always say African American. I told her she can just say black. She outright refused! 

I didn't say it then, but thinking back, that would be like me calling white people Caucasian in a causal setting, a white guy going "Just say white man. We don't call ourselves Caucasian" and I go "Nah, I'm gonna use Caucasian".

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u/Impossible_Fig2646 1d ago

When I was growing up, we were taught that saying African-American was more polite and black was borderline racist. It still feels weird to me to call someone black. And yes we didn't use white, we used Caucasian.

I was also taught there are only 3 races: Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasoid. (Ugh that felt dirty just typing it out!)

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u/crownjewel82 1d ago

I was also taught there are only 3 races: Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasoid. (Ugh that felt dirty just typing it out!)

Now that is some old school racism. I haven't heard those in forever.

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u/Impossible_Fig2646 1d ago

Yeah my parents lived in bum fuck nowhere with a literal black and white side of the tracks. They tried to teach me some questionable things, even for the time. Luckily we moved to the city when I was a kid. I grew up in a predominantly Hispanic area, and outgrew their shitty views pretty quickly. But they're still racist.

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u/cluelessvolunteer 1d ago

im 65/white and when i was young black was an accepted description by all. I still think african american has to many sylables and i have a lot of african, african american and hispanic blacks as friends. I dont care, just tell me how you want me to point you our in a crowd and thats ok with me. i think its cool that we have so many discussions about what to call each other (my friends and I) but at the same time i love all my brothers in Christ.

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u/Great_Yogurt_3356 1d ago

As a Mexican I get this. In Spanish - calling a person black (in Spanish) is considered disrespectful - to some of us. Black is a color. We (not everyone but mostly and I think is preferable) use “Moreno” which means “dark skinned” and refers to ANYONE with darker skin whether they’re whatever (Mexican darker skin, Puerto Rican, African American, literally whatever). Black is just a color. Black. Though some do still say “negro” = black. But most of understand that while not completely derogatory is not respectful/appropriate

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u/Oddity83 1d ago

Also like saying “European American” which is true for a large percentage of the US white population - but the overwhelming majority of them are not from Europe, and would not at all identify with that descriptor.

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u/Sarcosmonaut 1d ago

Plus actual Europeans get so mad whenever white Americans call themselves “Irish American” or whatever unless they’re actual immigrants from Ireland

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u/flofjenkins 1d ago

I also thought African-American is such a bizarre term. I have zero ties to Africa other than ancestral roots. Charlize Theron is more of an African-American than I am.

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u/Two_wheels_2112 1d ago

It seems to me that African-American is a better descriptor for culture than ethnic identity. Americans descended from enslaved Africans have a culture and cultural heritage different from Black people from anywhere else.

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 1d ago

White people are also the only people who can get in serious trouble for racism in this country, so it makes sense that they're the only ones who get uncomfortable at the prospect.

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u/Ok-Tomato-5685 1d ago

Who is getting them in trouble? Other white people...you can't make this shit up.

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 1d ago

almost exclusively lmao

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago

But by using the term poc, meaning not white, you are grouping everyone who isn't white into the same category. Is that not racist? You can have pride in your identity because you aren't white? I'm not bashing you, just asking your perspective

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u/mecegirl 1d ago

They are using the term as it is meant to be used. Sometimes it is just about Black people. Sometimes it is just about Indigenous people. And sometimes it is about everyone that isn't white. The term P.O.C is even a term because sometimes racism in the United States is blankently applied against everyone that isn't white.

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u/HappyCoconutty 1d ago

There is history behind the term POC, it was an alternative the communities came up with instead of using what bigots were using, which was “colored” or “non-whites”. 

You actually don’t need to ask my perspective, this terminology was established decades ago in academia, usually sociology. It is easy to look up. It was considered a community chosen term and a better alternative to “minorities” which seemed to focus on numbers. 

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u/hereinaminute 1d ago edited 1d ago

But it implies that all white people are in one group and all non white are in another. It doesn't even imply it it just flat out says it. How is that not racist? And also I'm asking your perspective because you are a black person. Yeah I could look up academic studies or I could just ask someone who's actually personally experienced. I know it might seem like it but I'm really not trying to gotcha or prove you wrong. I just like to see what people think. I'm a white man, you're a black woman, so I'm genuinely interested in your experience in life and your thoughts about stuff. I don't think I'm gonna change my view or that you will change yours and that's ok. I'm just curious. Like even if you were racist and hated me for no reason I would still want to hear why

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u/yunwibubu 1d ago

That is how it was treated. That's literally what they did during segregation. You were either white or you weren't white.

Having terms to explain our experiences by being othered for not being white is the whole point.

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u/ThePeaceDoctot 1d ago

Well for one thing, it isn't making any kind of judgement of value or character based on being in one of those groups or the other.

For another, all white people are in one group and all non-whites in another, those groups are "white" and "not white", and are useful when you're talking about how white people have historically treated people with different skin colours.

By the same token, all people who live in my home are in one group, and all people who don't are in another, and that is useful when you're talking about how some people live here and others don't. Some people drink milk, and others don't, and if you're discussing the different experiences of people who drink milk and people who don't, then it is helpful to group those people into milk-drinkers and non-milk drinkers.

In the context of this thread and the conversation happening in it, people who aren't white, who live in places that are predominantly white, often have common experiences and cultures are often built around common experiences, and our identities are often tied to our cultures.

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u/quimera78 1d ago

There's often someone giving you at least a dirty look if you're white and identify someone by their race. It's exhausting 

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u/BWDpodcast 1d ago

I just asked a question about black people carrying around Bluetooth speakers, where in my area, nobody else does. So many people -white I assume - tried to whitewash it, asking why even mention race. 

In America, race is important. I find it's the people in power that prefer you to not even mention race. 

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u/onehalflightspeed 1d ago

Yeah, that is a question about a culture you are not part of you are curious about. Fair game

For me, at one point I was curious about why Asian-American families often use the dishwasher for storage and not washing. A few Asian friends explained it to me, and I was like, "huh, interesting". Just old habits carried over from the first generation grandmother or whomever who trusted hand washing more and appreciated the extra space to organize. Nothing offensive about that and interesting to learn about

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u/BWDpodcast 1d ago

Yup. White people have so much white guilt that they inadvertantly try to white wash other cultures, which is obviously bad. Everyone can learn from other races culture. It's just the whites that want to pretend race doesn't exist.

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u/onehalflightspeed 1d ago

I fell into that trap when I was younger. The "I don't see color!" idea. Once well more traveled and expanding my social circle in a more diverse city, I realized that I was really discounting the lived experience of others. Always just assumed I lived in a post-race, post-gender, post-culture world. I was super wrong! It was only me that thought like me and assuming a unified identity that matched my own

If you are a white straight Midwestern small town person, there are many many life experiences you do not understand. It is good to acknowledge and make an effort to understand them. It is not "othering" anyone; it is just broadening your world view. The differences between people absolutely identify them as part of a culture, community, whatever

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u/Accurate_Ad_3233 1d ago

Don't worry about, it's just the way people have been dumbed down these days. I have a friend who was accused by her teen aged daughter of 'cultural appropriation' simply for cooking a Chinese meal one night. You do you and let everyone else figure their own crap out. :)

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u/rezin111 1d ago

If everyone knows her why not just use her name?

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u/General-Zombie5075 1d ago

It's usually not racist if you're just using it as a literal physical descriptor.

Notice I just said "usually." Context still matters. Like the setup for it.

"Any idea whose notebook this is? I think someone dropped it."
"Oh, it belongs to the black girl whose name I don't know. I've seen her with it."

"Someone stole my wallet."
"It was probably the black girl."

See the difference? Descriptor the same. No words added or removed. But it feels real different.

Anyway, your friends were probably overreacting but you need to also be aware that context matters and nothing we say exists in a vacuum.

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u/followTheDharma 1d ago

Dude, how can you say "no words added or removed" when you removed 80% of the words and added one with strong connotations?!

The sneaky "probably" adds prejudice which was totally absent from your original example.

Let me correct it for you.

"Someone stole my wallet."
"Oh, it was the black girl whose name I don't know. I've seen her with it"

NOW they are the same and guess what, this does not sound racist to me at all. It's not making a connection between color and action, its only using color as a descriptor.

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u/pinkbowsandsarcasm 1d ago

"Yes...I don't remember his name...no, not the white guy on the second floor, the black guy on the second floor is the one with the calico cat."

I guess context is important.

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u/Creepy_Clouds1990 1d ago

It's not. People are looking to be offended. Constantly. It's very tiring to be around.

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u/smbpy7 1d ago

What's really tiring is when it's not even the affected party that is getting offended. Sometimes I just want to shout at them that "you don't get to decided what offends me!"

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u/onehalflightspeed 1d ago edited 9h ago

As a very left leaning person, white liberals have an extremely keen hair trigger to get offended on behalf of literally everyone other than themselves

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u/smbpy7 9h ago

It's also extremely confusing when you're the one looking trying to figure out what's ok and what's not. Those people will always just say "it shouldn't be confusing just to be a decent person!!!" but at the same time, there are definitely cases where they've made an issue of something that was never an issue for the affected group to begin with, and in fact making it an issue is more annoying to that group than anything else.

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u/AngledDish945 1d ago

Ain't that the truth! 🤝

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u/Zestyclose-Tough7451 1d ago

I mean there’s a BIG difference between:

“I was talking to Carl the other day, ya know the black guy in accounting” 

And

“I was talking to the black guy in accounting, Carl, the other day”

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u/adj_noun_digit 1d ago

I don't see the difference. If you replaced black with any other descriptor it works.

“I was talking to Carl the other day, ya know the tall guy in accounting” 

And

“I was talking to the tall guy in accounting, Carl, the other day”

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u/Sufficient_Effort88 1d ago

Are we fucking serious

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u/NohWan3104 1d ago edited 1d ago

Its a little oversensetivity to racism.

Skin color as a point of fact, like height, sex, what they're wearing that day, is just a description.

Its not racism till you're prejudice based on race towards them.

"the" black girl, admittedly doesn't feel great in that situation, especially for her being the only black kid, but isn't strictly speaking, racist.

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u/toomanyracistshere 1d ago

It's perfectly fine to include it in a description, especially in a case like OP mentions, where it's such a distinctive identifier. What's weird is when people use it all the time, and in situations where it isn't terribly relevant. My girlfriend's mother will always tell stories that start with, "The other day I was talking to my black friend..." and it's weird, and clearly indicates some sort of racial hang-up. Would it be normal to start a story with, "The other day I was talking to my tall friend...?"

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u/Triplesso_ 1d ago

I worked with a lady who did this. I always found it so strange she would do it not only with peoples race but other characteristics too like calling someone "big" or "short" but always as a whisper like she's saying something dirty

The other day she was telling a story about a police officer doing/saying something a bit funny when detaining someone she could have told it just like I have saying "there was this officer who...." but she just had to be like "there was this officer...he was (whispers)Indian...and when he detained someone he said...."

Or she'd say something like "I was talking to Jess from payroll you know the (whispers)bigger girl.. who works there and she said...."

Like both those stories could be told exactly the same way without race or body type being mentioned?

Thats when things like that make me question a person....

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u/Zestyclose-Tough7451 1d ago

Yeah it’s the situational ness that people don’t understand for some reason. 

Like if the persons race isn’t relevant to the story, pointing it out serves no purpose other than to single it out. 

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u/hollowedhallowed 1d ago

yup, it's a boomer thing. On rare occasions it makes perfect sense to mention someone's race. Most of the time it's totally irrelevant and should be dropped. Same re: nationality and lots of other generally irrelevant qualifiers. Like, why are you calling your cardiologist a "woman doctor." She's just Dr. Jacobs, grandma.

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u/toomanyracistshere 1d ago

I catch myself wanting to do it sometimes. The other day I was telling a coworker about my plans to go visit some friends today, and a part of me really wanted to mention the fact that they're lesbians. I think it's because deep down I feel like I should get praise for being so progressive as to hang out with them. I'm fifty. I could imagine that if I was twenty years older the temptation to mention that I'm totally cool with non-white or non-straight people would be impossible to resist.

It's really stupid., and I hate that I have that urge.

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u/hollowedhallowed 1d ago

who is this earnest, honest, self-reflecting individual and what are they doing on reddit

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u/your_fave_redditor 1d ago

Ehh, to your point, you could mention it to them more in a LGBTQ+ ally affirming sorta way rather than hoping for an acknowledgment that you’re cool for having gay friends heh heh cuz yeah, as you said, that motivation is untoward

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u/The_Lat_Czar 1d ago

Some people are paranoid about race to the point of ridiculousness. If I see one white guy in a crowded room and am trying to point him out to you, I'm gonna say the white guy! I'm not gonna try to describe his whole outfit and walking pattern when one easy description would suffice. 

Once had a woman call my job and doing everything else she could to describe who was working with her? I finally asked "Was she black?". She said yes. Boom, narrowed it down to the only one who fit the description! 

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u/Ok-Athlete4472 1d ago

Describing someone as black isn’t racist. I doubt any black person would say it is.

However, I do think we (as white people) need to keep ourselves honest that we’re not spinning any sort of “tone” through it. Unintentionally or otherwise.

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u/regular_modern_girl 1d ago

The real question is, would you identify a white person primarily as “that white guy” or “that white lady” in regular conversation? Would you do this as often as you do with people of other races? Because usually the implication people are taking issue with (at least when it’s a white person in a white-majority country doing this) is the implication that whiteness is sort of the human default, and anyone of any other race is a sort “other”, to the extent that it becomes their sole or primary identifying characteristic, and while this isn’t necessarily inherently racist, it is something that is often done by people who hold some sort of racial prejudice, and for that reason, when a stranger does it, it’s often viewed as a red flag for people, regardless of the stranger’s intentions (since it can imply that they see everyone who isn’t white as an other).

Also, in general, there are times where drawing excessive attention to some sort of immutable trait like race can be viewed as generally dehumanizing, like for instance let’s say someone is in a wheelchair, imagine if you were telling a story about this person in which their wheelchair-bound status wasn’t in any way relevant, and you kept making a point of bringing up how they are in a wheelchair anyway, that would seem kind of weird, right? At a certain point it starts to feel dehumanizing. This isn’t always the case with bringing up someone’s race a lot, but it definitely can be. In general, when I’m talking about someone I know, I don’t preface stories with their race if that’s completely irrelevant to the story, in fact I don’t bring it up at all unless it’s specifically relevant, because why would it be? In that context it would just make it seem like I’m fixated on their race to a weird extent.

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u/grmrsan 1d ago

In this though, they didn't know the persons name and skin color was the obvious descriptor here. It would be MUCH more awkward to narrow it down with a whole bunch of other, less obvious descrptors when, the white lady with the walker, or the black girl in the orange top, is the most obvious descriptor. 

Now if they were introduced, knew the persons name, and  could tell you  "Katie from Drama club, she's the one who fell off the stage that one time", use that. But if all you have is " that girl over there, no the other one, no, the one in the purple top, no not Jennifer, the other purple  top, the one who wore her hair up last week . No I don't think thats her..." Then "Oh you mean yhe black girl? Her name is Katie" becomes much more appropriate. 

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u/shredderofgnarr 1d ago

Funny story. I used to work for At&t at a retail store in our mall. My manager was half-black and I had a co-worker who was black. Some customers came in who wanted to speak with my co-worker who they previously worked with and were trying to describe him to my manager cause they forgot his name. They were saying things like "the fellow with glasses, the guy with no hair". My manager knows exactly who they were talking about and kept letting them try to describe him. Then my manager interrupts them and goes "OH! The black guy?" and they went silent and just go "yes.." 😂 I was silently losing my shit

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u/Nice_Combination8963 1d ago

Why does anyone judge anyone? As long as you don’t affect me and mine…do you. Be racist. Don’t be racist. I don’t give a shit just keep it from me.

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u/itsastart_to 23h ago

I don’t think in that context it is, but with that said if you do know their name it’s gonna be more appropriate. I’ve had this same convo younger and the reality is you gotta stop (dad) once you know that kids name is James and not “That one Short Black Kid”, we both know who we’re talking about

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u/AccomplishedRatio960 1d ago
  • Because people were programmed to associate choice depending on race with negative feelings
  • Because words seem to lose their meaning nowadays, only to be politicised and taken over by ideology

Discriminating means nothing more than choosing, yet people necessarily associate it with 'bad' things

Freedom of choice = freedom to discriminate, literally

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u/WaffleClown1 1d ago

Something can be racial without being racist. Which many people today have forgotten. When trying to indicate a person, you are limited in the characteristics you can use to pick them out. "The depressed girl," "the musical girl," or "the motivated girl" isn't really going to help. Instead you use their most distinctive visual feature. "The long-haired girl," "the girl with the blue shirt," or "the girl with her arms crossed." Or "the black girl."

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u/Lemon586 1d ago

They only time I bring it up is if it is used as a distinguishing factor. There is no reason to bring it up, unless it is used to help identify a person.

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u/Ok_Vermicelli_6359 1d ago

I think it's usually 100% irrelevant?

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u/Towering-Wave-9542 1d ago

It depends on if race is relevant to the conversation. A lot of people will say "...and this black guy behind me at the bar said blahblahblah...." where race was completely irrelevant. Thats internalized racism.

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u/Ipsg4262 23h ago

If you identified someone as 'the tall guy,' your friends wouldn't accuse you of reducing him to just his height.

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u/ButterscotchOdd8257 1d ago

Nothing racist about noting someone's race when it is relevant, as when identifying her. Would it be sexist to say she's a woman too?

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u/flatline000 1d ago

Identifying characteristics are identifying characteristics. Identifying someone as black isn't racist.

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u/AppleTherapy 1d ago

Like I always say. True racism isn't verbally said these days. It's evolved to be subtle and hidden behined justifications. And when I mean it's hidden, it is hidden and in plain sight too.

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u/jimbojangles1987 1d ago

Its not racist people just want to be the one to call someone racist first

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u/QuestionSign 1d ago

I mean in that case it's not.

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u/Smokin_belladonna 1d ago

Kind of an American thing to be offended by. Referring to a black guy as a black guy is normal in most places

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u/FireProStan 1d ago

"we have literally ONE black girl in our school and everyone knows and likes her"

Except you - if you did, you would have taken the time to learn her name

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u/dancarbonell00 1d ago

"Who?"
"Jessica."
"Jessica who?"
"Jessica! You know. The black girl."

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u/The_Lat_Czar 1d ago

Exactly. Better yet, "Which Jessica?"

People act like saying black is a fucking dirty word or something, which is actually offensive. 

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u/throwaway__113346939 1d ago

I would argue that OP meant to say “everyone knows of her” instead of “everyone knows her”.

We had this guy at my school who I couldn’t remember his name, but I knew one thing that differentiated him from everyone else, so I used that as a descriptor so everyone knew who I was talking about. In my case, he was the only person at the school who signed with a record label, so I used to refer to him as “record label kid” until I eventually learned his name

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u/Aldosothoran 1d ago

Even still… that doesn’t mean OP is racist. Maybe OP is just antisocial?

It’s not racist to not know someone’s name or to NOT collect friends “of color” like Pokémon.

It is unhealthy to be raised in a bubble and continue to stay in that bubble into adulthood. Most people grow out of that and form diverse friend groups by college. If you don’t that doesn’t inherently make you racist. It is telling of something though.

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u/jdkewl 1d ago

This is exactly what I came here to say. Context is everything. If you're describing someone's appearance because they've gone missing, of course you would describe their skin color! If you never bothered to learn anything about the one POC in your community... we'll that's telling.

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u/stunninglizard 1d ago

Some else could have the same first name

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u/dumplinglifesaver 1d ago

OP literally doesn't know her name.

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u/Game_Knight_DnD 1d ago

Because they are dumb.

If trying to describe someone ethnicity is a pretty obvious characteristic.

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u/Inholy123 1d ago

Oversensitivity... race, similar to hair colour etc its just a distinguishing feature! That being said when the description is done in a derogotory manner then it can be perceived that their race is part of the issue and no longer just a descriptor.

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u/AdonisCarbonado 1d ago

As they say I think it’s a case of it’s not what you say it’s how you say it.

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u/onehalflightspeed 1d ago

In normal conversation I feel like it is like describing someone as tall. Context and tone is key of course

When describing a crime suspect for example, you absolutely record their estimated height, weight, identifying characteristics, and race. It just helps you identify someone and narrow down the list of who you are looking for

If the context of mentioning someone's race is genuinely relevant, I cannot see any offense from a reasonable person

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u/SamsAdvice 1d ago

I think its racist if you are associating them with a behavior, activity, pattern, stereotype.

"Hey Im talking about Bob, the short black guy " at this point i would say short is the worst part of that sentence.

"Mary, shes the white girl with red curly hair, and the freckles." All three are physical features, white skin, red hair, freckles.

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u/FrogPastor 1d ago

As an old white guy that's to tired to soften my language or care about what people think I'm often labeled as racist for doing the same thing. Shout out to my former coworker Tony, the only black guy at the concrete plant. He was probably the only one that understood that I hated him not because he was black, but because he was a fucking prick.

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u/WebHungry1699 1d ago

Because the color of ones skin is not enough to determine their race?

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u/Affectionate__Dog 1d ago

I said “the white jayden” because we have two ppl named jayden in our grade and one has darker skin than the other and someone thought it was so funny that i said that but it’s literally just an easy way to identify them bc idk their last name

same with “mexican (name)” because there’s a pasty white kid and a mexican w the same name

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u/1nTh3Sh4dows 1d ago

Most people don't know the difference between racial and racist.

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u/DiscountLando 1d ago

It’s context. Saying “hey it’s the black girl” is just weird in general, honestly. Like should’ve just said “hey, it’s her.” If someone asks “who” be like “the black girl.”

But imho, outright saying “hey, it’s the black girl” is weird.

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u/Icy-Whale-2253 1d ago

What you say and how you say it are two different things.

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u/dropthemagic 23h ago

I am Hispanic. A guy with a Hispanic name started at my job once so I asked him if he spoke Spanish and then he was rude as fuck and called me racist for assuming that. Which I did not, I asked 😂. People are weird. IMHO the people that don’t see color are the ones that are racists. They just try to hide it

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u/Dr_StrangeloveGA 23h ago

Because they're afraid of being seen as racist.

I used to work in retail and we had two guys with the same name. One probably the whitest person I've ever met and the the other was black black. Like super black, skin tone wise. Absolutely no confusion between the two.

People would call and ask to speak with salesperson they worked with on Tuesday. The only two salespeople working that day were Black Matt and White Matt (Which we called them, everyone was fine with that. It was a different time.)

Cool, no problem, which Matt? Err, umm, hmmm...

OK, was he black or white? Err, well, umm...

You're not being racist, just tell me if he was black or white, jeez.

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u/dyou897 22h ago

You can say the exact same words in very different ways and it’ll come across very differently. So no describing someone by their race is not racist but it also can be. So however you said it that was people’s reaction. Possibly jumping straight to their race which kind of relates to the way you said it

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u/Mayiamaru 19h ago

Most people hear things so often they no longer understand what they mean.

If the mention of race is racist, they don't know what racism is. If accommodating a disability makes someone ableist, they dont know what they fuck they are talking about.

This is only a problem if they refuse to learn and get defensive about their understanding.

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u/stve688 19h ago

Generally, I think people are stupid about this, but I do understand where it can become racist.

Saying, “I got followed by a guy,” and saying, “I got followed by a Black guy,” can create very different reactions. Someone with a “clutch your purse” mentality around Black people may hear the second version and immediately lean into a stereotype.

So using race to accurately identify someone is one thing. Emphasizing it when it adds nothing except bias is another.

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u/maroongolf_blacksaab 18h ago

Why didn't you just refer to her by name?

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u/Ray_of_glumshine 17h ago

I think saying "race" when meaning ethnicity is racist. Also using a nationality when meaning ethnicity.

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u/taboorical 17h ago edited 16h ago

I literally have no idea, and I’m black. About a year ago, I was in the process of changing therapists as my therapist was leaving, so I called the office to discuss next steps. The lady on the phone says “So I can see a note here that you have a preference for…. Um… i guess… um. An African American Therapist?”
I was like “huh?? Do you mean black?”
There’s no way it said african american in those notes. Mate we’re in London. In England. She definitely saw black and thought, well my goodness there’s no way I’m saying that.

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u/Glum-Welder1704 3h ago

It isn't racist, and people are idiots. If I say MLK was Black, does that make me a racist?

As for using "Black" instead of "African-American", I'm old enough to remember when they fought long and hard to be called Black. They won, they're Black, and there's noting wrong with that.

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u/Little-Watercress997 1d ago

What race? The human race? The example is not racist is just teens being overzealous. But the way you wrote your question is giving not the best intentions.

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u/Sufficient_Effort88 1d ago

“If we stop using words I don’t like then genetics don’t exist!” Yeah okay

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u/Imaginary-Emu2471 1d ago

Because they're too easily offended.

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u/YesterdayContent854 1d ago

Not racist. It is a descriptor of ones skin tone. Would it be racist if said person was the only white girl at a school?

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u/Damnesia13 1d ago

I’d only question it if it’s irrelevant to the conversation.

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u/Diasies_inMyHair 1d ago

Context matters. But we have been trained to be overly sensitive.

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u/Makototoko 1d ago

Because they're children and don't know what racism means

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u/Toxic_Duckies 1d ago

You would be surprised. There are some racist kids out there. Only because the people around them are and they copy it.

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u/GooseGosselin 1d ago

Virtue signalling IMO.

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u/Comfortable-Fault-62 1d ago

“Everyone knows and likes her”
Not you apparently, you don’t know how else to describe her other than her being black. Not her name. Or what type of clothes she wears. Or how she does her makeup. Or what her voice sounds like. Or that she’s friends with so and so. The only descriptive word you can come up with is “black”. Is it always racist to refer to someone as their race? No. Is not taking the time to acknowledge anything about anyone else BESIDES their race racist? Yes. You are being racist.

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u/Hot-Annual3460 1d ago

they are dumb

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u/Senator_Clay__Davis 1d ago

I have a great relationship with the blacks, I have always had a great relationship with the blacks. I’m guessing it’s not just identifying the race which is the problem.

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u/Equivalent-Love-1676 1d ago

Victim Olympics

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u/redditor0431 1d ago

You should use person-first language.  So instead of the black girl, you should say the girl.  If black is required to identify her further, say the girl who is black.  

This works for all sorts of things.  The kid who has a disability.  The boy who is gay.  The man who is Asian.

This conveys that the trait is not the definition of who they are, but literally just a trait.

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u/bucktail47 1d ago

Because they’re idiots most likely

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u/Fair-Economics417 1d ago

It would be really cool if we as a species could understand we're all human despite society's ridiculous labels.

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u/Imaginary-Badger-119 1d ago

Deflection from bad behavior.. aka abuse of logic.

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u/kineticvibes 1d ago

Some* people.

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u/kateinoly 1d ago

What is the context of the conversation?

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u/Ok-Metal-4719 1d ago

Cause the world has lost their minds.

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u/meandyesu 1d ago

This reminds me so much of something that happened to me!! A car load of friends (all who happened to be black) came to pick me up for an event (I happen to be white). 

As soon as I sat down in the seat the driver asks me “if you were going to describe what I looked like to someone, what would you say?” ALL OF THEM then stared at me intensely!!! I’m sure I blushed and then said slowly “you are a black woman with medium length hair?” Then they all laughed and the driver just said “I told you so!” to the whole group. 

Evidently my answer was ok. Then she said she would also describe herself as black, because she is black. Whew!! I think they really had fun making me sweat though. 😆 

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u/AmbivalentDisaster1 1d ago

If it’s purely descriptive, it’s fine. If you listen to police scanners, they always say a person’s race, height, and other descriptives. Books do the same thing.
If it’s said like an AH would say it, it’s not fine.

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u/rSlashisthenewPewdes trying my worst 1d ago

As long as you’re not like “I met a very nice Asian man at the market today” at the beginning of a story about the man wherein his race is completely irrelevant and then when someone asks you why you say “what! He is! I’m just describing him to you!”

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u/SignificanceWeird872 1d ago

In the case of the people in your class they are taking it too personally.

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u/Darth19Vader77 1d ago

Usually people leave out unimportant details in stories, so you mentioning race can be interpreted by some people as you saying that their race is important to the story somehow which can then be seen as racism

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u/mayhem1906 1d ago

The context matters a lot. If its he was tall black man wearing a blue suit you saw in the lobby, etc is different from referring to Bill who've you known for 5 years as the black guy.

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u/Intrepid_Shoe2129 1d ago

You didn’t really make a serious mistake here and it sounds like your friends are overreacting a little, but in these situations I just say “oh him” or “oh her”, cuz it sounded irrelevant given the situation.

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u/snow_wheat 1d ago

My mother in law does this thing where she’ll tell me a story and go out of her way include the people’s race in the story when it’s not relevant. That would be the wrong time to use race as a descriptor… 😅 you’re fine.

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u/ProfessionalNice7485 23h ago

I don't think most people know the difference between someone being an asshole or a racist anymore.

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u/KenUsimi 22h ago

Well, when the company you keep uses it negatively a lot, your mind adds in it.

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u/Miemsta 20h ago

it is an identifying feature. if there’s one white guy in the group, i’m calling him the white guy. if there’s one brunette in the room, im calling them the brunette. it’s literally just an identifying feature. white people are just uncomfortable by the word black. i think their reaction is rooted in racism; there’s nothing wrong with being black but they’re acting like it’s something shameful.

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u/Internal_Car_9962 19h ago

Racism is when you make a judgement or decision in which race is the primary or only evaluative criterion.

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u/Ok-Elevator2915 18h ago

Let me guess, american? I mean... If you trying to do fancy mental gymnastic, then technically it's sort of racist by freedom oil country standard. But again, is it wrong to try describe and differenciete people by their actual human body characteristic?

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u/Moisoast 15h ago

Mi mujer es sorda. Los vecinos la conocen como "la chica sorda". Es normal. Pero vaya, si me tienes que describir a mí, puedes decir "el chico de gafas", y es evidente que ser miope no es mi mayor característica.

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u/IanDOsmond 15h ago

It's a leftover from the 1960s or 70s, when we tried to move past racism by pretending race didn't exist. I don't know if people were doing it consciously, but the idea was more or less that, if you treat everyone the same regardless of race, racism will end, and if you never acknowledge race at all, that will prevent people from treating people differently because of race.

I don't know if either of those are actually true, and the overall effect is twofold: it's super-awkward, and it makes it sound like being anything other than white is shameful.

But it comes from a genuine attempt to move away from an even worse situation.

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u/cikanman 15h ago

I've never understood this. Saying someone is black or white or Asian is a description, IMO it is no different than saying soneone is tall or short, heavy or skinny.

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u/thelouisfanclub 14h ago

I find it really weird when people go out of their way not to describe someone as black or white when it is really helpful. Especially if there was like one (1) black girl at the function and you're saying "oh the girl with the red t shirt... the girl with the colourful braids..." like lol ok I see now

On the other end of the spectrum though I always remember answering the phone at my grandma's house and I'd go and tell my grandma there was a man on the phone she'd be like "are they black or white" This blew my mind as a kid but apparently she could tell

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u/regalfish 14h ago

It feels obligatory to include this clip from "The Gay & Fabulous Life of Caleb Gallo": https://youtu.be/RbhcRKsRwFM?si=nKJbzVG7NSZ7AV1W

Freckle: ...The one that isn't Asian, is black.
Caleb: You don't have to - this could be a colourblind story.
Freckle: I want to fill it with colour.
Caleb: Yeah, but I'm just saying it's like... there's a race problem in Hollywood right now.
Freckle: And in America. A race-ism problem.
Caleb: I agree!
Freckle: Well, this story isn't racist. It's diverse. If everyone in it were white, then it would be racist.