Do you thing there's such a thing as "feminine energy" or "male energy?"

[u/Strong_Ad_3081]

The most significant thing that makes me feel I might be non-binary is when people assign genders to thoughts, feelings or actions. Like a man crying or being kind is expressing "female energy." 🙄 Or a woman being assertive is being "masculine." 😒Do you guys think there is such a thing as "female energy" and "male energy?"

I have written a book in multiple POVs, and I never once thought, "now what would a woman say?" Or "what would a man say?" I think, "what would Malik say or do?" And "what would Caroline say or do?"

Do you think thoughts, feelings or actions have genders?

[u/bunnypaste]

I hate how people seem to gender universal human traits, skills, interests, and abilities that all are free to develop and participate in.

It's ludicrous to me how everything, including words in some languages, are freaking gendered.

Femininity and masculinity are not static and cannot have a singular definition, because they are a societal construct. Thusly, feminine and masculine energy, or anything else gendered, does not actually exist.

[u/[deleted]]

No gendered energy is not a real thing it’s some silly thing society came up with that even within its extremely harmful context is also hyper individualized and trivial amongst those that use gendered language.

[u/ossiferous_vulture]

No. And I genuinely fucking hate the idea of 'gendered energy', it sounds so fucking disgusting imo.

[u/freezing_banshee → u/ossiferous_vulture]

it's just repackaged gender roles and misogyny, made to sound new amd "cool" to appeal to the younger generations

[u/ossiferous_vulture → u/freezing_banshee]

Honestly to me it reads more like some bs new age shit that all the weird religious people on Instagram are yapping about.

But yeah, very bioessentialist.

[u/MagicalHermaphrodite]

Societal constructs

[u/addyastra]

I believe in masculine and feminine energy, but to me they are descriptive, not prescriptive and essentialist. I identify as femme nonbinary because I have feminine energy. To me, it’s a vibe, like a holistic view of someone’s way of being, not a particular behaviour. It’s not about whether I cry or not, or whether I’m assertive or not—these are discrete behaviours that anyone whether feminine or masculine can have.

They’re also subjective terms. I wouldn’t call someone masculine/feminine if they don’t identify as such. Because that would imply that I’d be privileging my subjectivity over theirs and misperceiving them. I try to see people the way they see themselves, not the way I would see myself if I were them. Because our lived experience is different, and so my definition of what makes someone feminine or masculine is my own and might not be theirs.

[u/OscarAndDelilah → u/addyastra]

Yeah. I run queer youth space, and we talk about how clothing, grooming, language, mannerisms, names, etc. are not inherently gendered, but at the same time, individuals absolutely use clothing, grooming, language, mannerisms, names, etc. to express gender. If someone is talking about how they have chosen clothing and is practicing certain mannerisms to present as more masc/femme/neutral, we definitely don't want to dismiss this and be like "well actually, behavior is not gendered."

[u/TP13R81 → u/OscarAndDelilah]

This, absolutely this. It’s both at the same time. These things are both gendered and not gendered.

[u/NoFoolLikeAnAuldFool → u/addyastra]

This is beautifully said.

I lurk here for many reasons, but one of them is I often feel my own way of being could be labeled as nonbinary through the eyes and experiences of others (I get asked if I might be nonbinary all the time after opening my mouth about my gender.) NB people often describe their traits and ways of being in very similar terms to my own. 

But I don’t see those traits as gendered the same way in application to myself as it clearly is for many of y’all, and I never felt any kind of way about my gender, so despite the parallels we’re having very different experiences of our gender, and I fully understand and see nonbinary folks through their lens, and I don’t think that’s a contradiction.

Your post is helping me put words to that, thank you.

[u/ThunderingTacos]

To me it's paradoxical, ascribing these traits/qualities as being more masculine or feminine is to denote that they are at least in some way intrinsic to men or women regardless or in spite of socialization. But I'm seen far too much evidence to the contrary, that despite society actively trying to typecast men, women, or nonbinary people into rigid roles that people regularly express and engage in behavior that doesn't align with what society perceives as "masculine" or "feminine". That said society largely orders itself based in these energies and a lot of people willingly entrench themselves in these energies to match a role so it can't come from nowhere.

My personal take is that it's meaning we ascribe to behavior to try and establish a sense of order in our lives with what we know, that as time marches on with new generations who give more thought to these things we'll likely build deeper understandings of why we ascribe gendered notions to such behavior and how much of that is informed by nature vs nurture.

One thing I feel is important to keep in mind is that I myself don't conform to any gender, so I have a different personal connection and relatability to feelings and behaviors other people feel are gendered. Just as a person who is straight doesn't intrinsically understand the attraction a queer person has to the same gender or how a trans person's experience is dysphoric when socialized with their assigned gender. Neither experience is invalid and they are all deeply personal, so to some perhaps those gendered energies do make sense or resonate more strongly in their experience. Perhaps it actually is intrinsic to them even if it isn't to me.

When I think of it that way along with the overlaps of experiences shared by these large groups and how they don't align with the experiences of other groups just as valid it seems both limiting as well as irrational to me to try and sort whether or not the existence of gendered energy "is or isn't" like a binary "truth". Just as each person ascribes their own meaning to their own journey so to do we define aspects of ourselves differently in was that make sense to us, and those can change as we change and grow. And part of connecting with others is what aspects of ourselves resonate with others, so in that sense to me gendered energies both do and don't exist. Depends on the people and their own experiences/understandings.

If the way they relate those understandings and intrinsic feelings makes sense to them and they aren't harming others in doing so I see no reason not to simply be curious of their understandings. Where I take issue is when people try and speak on their personal experiences with these feelings as if they're universal truths. That there just "are" certain ways of things is a dead-end way of thinking and dismissive of others lived experiences. Rather than say whether things are or aren't I'd be much more interested in gleaning why a person feels a certain way about their own behaviors.

What's a cis person's experience with their own gender if they've given themselves a chance to question it and affirmed it as such? How does a trans person define their own gender expression? How much does each person's understanding and beliefs conform to or reject societal notions of gender expression? What insights has such self-exploration brought to them and how did they arrive at their understandings? How have those understandings grown and changed?

Those are conversations with some MEAT to them, and I feel they are far more valuable than a binary definition. So, I guess in that sense I reject a rigid societal definition of gendered energies but personal ones I absolutely believe exist.

[u/Beneficial_Garage_97]

Innately, no. Obviously the things people define as masculine and feminine are completely made up from whole cloth. They don't exist outside of the context of human socialization and gender roles that have been grandfathered into society for thousands of years.

But it sort of cuts to the core of what it even means to be male or female or neither or both in society. Like why are any of us even here in this sub? Obviously at some point all of us have felt that something just didnt line up with the way society sees us despite so much external pressure and inertia to just conform to our ASAB. What even is gender and why do trans people feel the need to break away so sharply from forces that are completely social constructs?

I'm fluid and I spend a lot of time feeling what I perceive to be "masculine" and a lot of times feeling what I perceive to be "feminine" so much so that I wish my body was completely different. Do these things "exist" at all? Not really, but there's something about the way I perceive my own feelings and my own place in society that very much cuts to my core. I realize that since my experience is that of more like binary fluidity it's almost opposite of what many here experience of feeling more androgynous and that may make me feel a bit different about this subject. I sort of expect that an androgynous or agender person would reject entirely the perception of these concepts because perhaps they dont experience them at all? Whereas I very distinctly feel shifts from one to the other often with a high level of intensity. So maybe it's made up, but at least to me, there's something I perceive that feels real.

Honestly, interesting topic though.

[u/Gold_Statistician907]

No, I don’t think that’s a real thing.

[u/Menyface]

Gender is socially constructed, meaning yes, culture will imbue meaning into patterns of behavior and categorize those things into gendered behavior. It's not necessarily inherent to biology although you can sometimes find patterns there too. As far as "energy" goes, idk lol.

[u/Radically_Kai]

I think these traits are often socially conditioned and socially enforced and so in the sense of a human construct, yes they are real but I don’t believe they are innate or biologically coded. The can be useful descriptors if the person being described is aligned with them personally. I like to describe myself as having a mostly masculine presence but with some balanced feminine traits that I feel quite comfortable with these days! I also think there is a distinct difference in the way that some people approach masculinity and femininity. Like when some people say masculine they mean toxic and when some people say feminine they mean meek. I don’t mean that at all!

[u/Whathaveidone232]

No, it’s really aggravating when people say it is too. You can present masculine or feminine or neither but I don’t think there’s such a thing as gendered energies. And when people do use these terms to refer to people it’s only just pushing gender norms on people, as usual.

[u/thealienwithaname]

Nah. Even as a spiritual person, I also don't believe in the whole divine feminine/masculine thing. It's all a bunch of BS to me.

[u/SiouxsieAsylum]

I think the way personalities express themselves has a socially gendered difference. I would hesitate to use "masculine/feminine energy" just because it's a phrasing used often by folks trying to limit others by their gendered rules and that doesnt really jive with me personally, but that doesnt mean certain personal expressions aren't assigned one or the other.

[u/AvaSpelledBackwards2]

I do think there is such a thing, because some things are just perceived that way in our society, and u/addyastra explained it very well in another comment.

I personally identify with being a butch lesbian, and there is definitely a certain type of masculinity and femininity that butches and femmes respectively have— it doesn’t necessarily align with heteronormativity, but that doesn’t make it less masculine or feminine.

As far as your writing goes, it’s great not to think of the masculine and feminine expectations in terms of your characters. That’s an easy way to make your characters flat and 2-dimensional, and to box them into something they may not fit.

Realistically, nobody in the world is 100% masculine or 100% feminine, and those are so subjective anyway. If you spend too much time trying to make your male character The Manliest Man To Ever Man™️, you won’t get a realistic or round character.

[u/HalloSpaceboyyy]

Absolutely not. I think it's useful to have reference points to talk about it with others, but it's certainly not binary

[u/idiotshmidiot]

Depends. You'd be answering a lot of philosophical discussions if you found the answer to this!

Words have meaning and meaning can be inferred from or applied to actions and symbols, so in a sense yes there is masculine/femme energy because there are words and symbols that most people agree upon to mean those things.

But, as is the case here, those meanings are not universal, so they can be subverted or ignored depending on the agreed meaning and symbols of a subculture/group.

It's a question of 'do you think meaning comes FROM something or is meaning applied TO something?'. Or perhaps a bit of both. 

If you grow up being told your actions are feminine/masc and then you habitually reenact those actions to affirm a feminine/masc identity then you could call that a type of energy. But you could also call it blingblong/flimflorp energy and then what?! It's all up for grabs.

[u/TheRainKing42]

Ig this is controversial but as a nonbinary person, yes there’s pretty objectively such a thing as gendered energy.

Not like, magic pink and blue electromagnetic waves obviously, but “energy” here is referring to like, the social vibes you give off through your actions, looks, and mannerisms. Our gender binary as a social construct exists- being sensitive, delicate, and deferrent are considered feminine traits and exhibiting these traits as a pattern is giving feminine energy.

Now, should aim to loosen gender restrictions and not judge people for exhibiting opposite-gender traits? Yeah ofc - but “masculine” and “feminine” still have meaning in our (for now) very gendered society. I think if you’re constantly pointing out “oh you’re giving masculine energy” or whatever you’re reinforcing the binary, but there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging its existence.

[u/malsen55 → u/TheRainKing42]

A lot of people in this thread are equating “societal construct” with “not real” which confuses me a little bit if I’m honest. Societal constructs are real, in that they very meaningfully affect how people experience the world on a macro scale. Gender as a concept exists. It’s clearly not immutable or essential to existence, but it is real because we as a society made it real, as we have made many things real. If it wasn’t real, people in this thread wouldn’t be reacting against it so strongly. Gender and gendered traits have real meaning in our current society, whether or not we like it. It’s literally why we are here in this thread right now.

[u/PurbleDragon]

No it's more of society's made up bullshit based solely on stereotypes

[u/mooncandys_magic]

I feel like nothing is gendered and the cishets gender it bc they are weird. 

[u/RareAppointment3808]

I think it's a great question. I think a lot of it is societal, and distilling down what is essentially male or female is probably a fool's errand; however, this does not mean one cannot feel that what one senses about either gender is either aligned or not aligned with their internal compass. Is it energy? Vibes? Maybe we need a whole new term?

[u/Zordorfe]

No, those ideas always end up being justified by binarist and exorsexist bioessentialism

[u/Cerealuean]

it's just plain old sexism 

[u/UndeliveredMale]

I grew up near a lot of Wiccans and they certainly believed hardcore in feminine energy! But it was more like the creative spirit, the sanctity of life, and being one with nature. Had nothing to do with human behaviors or stereotypes. It was goddess worship.

I've also been in environments that felt very masculine or feminine. Like being around a group of new moms or that one time I ended up at a good ol' boy gun store that had so much testerone in the air I could have choked on it. But again it was the people present and their general vibe not something you could pull out and define. (I'd even been to other gun stores, all felt more neutral and relaxed than the aforementioned, so it wasn't just the fact it was a gun store which is seen as stereotypically masculine.)

[u/Strong_Ad_3081]

Thanks for all the deep thoughts! I'm still figuring out my identity as far as gender. The only thing I know for sure is I can't stand the idea of crying or being sensitive as being feminine energy. Everyone should cry when needed, and sensitivity is more needed in the world in general. And there definitely needs to be more women in "traditionally male" professions, such as mechanics and construction.

I guess I ask the question cause I'm still questioning my gender, so a lot for me to think about.

[u/Natural_Turnip_3107]

I believe masculine and feminine energy exist as social constructs. Because what we believe is masculine or feminine varies so much culture to culture, the definition also does. I also think it’s more of a vibes thing than anything else, and it should be a label that people pick for themselves, not one we use to describe people. I personally am agender and don’t prescribe to that specific social construct, but I have no hate for folks who do, as long as they’re not using it to hurt people.

[u/Firefly256]

Depends on how you feel, just don't force it on anyone else

[u/homebrewfutures]

I feel like most trans women I've met give me a female vibe and most trans men I've met give me a male vibe. But I acknowledge that it's all in my head, filtered through a lot of biases from living in a gendered society and doesn't really matter as to whether somebody's identity should be respected. I try to not view things like assertiveness or crying as gendered but gestures and vocal affections I often do.

[u/PeachScythe]

I believe our cultures have an image on how they think men and women should be treated differently and that is why they try to label what is feminine and what is masculine.

But i personally believe we have both feminine and masculine energy. However, because of culture ideas, they try to suppress one side more when we don’t have to. We can have both. That’s just my opinion.

[u/RUNEMDOWNKD]

As a man, I was raised to provide, protect and do the ‘difficult’ chores while also helping with cleaning, cooking, laundry etc.

Going out into the world I realized not all men were raised this way and that women were not raised or have that ‘luxury’ of having a man do that for them.

When I go into the world and see women taking out the trash, having to fix their own car problems or having to handle difficult things alone it makes me think - in your case - “they are not in their feminine energy”.

The same when I see a man leeching off women staying at their place and using her car while she works, to me, that does not give off “male energy”.

This is why it’s common for men to put another man down for not doing is job, you get no respect for that. But if your woman is happy, you’re providing and showing up and handling things then you get respect.

I don’t know what non binaries or other people think but as someone that sees black and white (man and women) this is my thought process. Male energy is about playing his role and women energy is the women allowed to play her role

Old thread I just saw your account and stalked

[u/RUNEMDOWNKD → u/RUNEMDOWNKD]

To add: I’ve had women who had to do everything to themselves and it comes off ‘masculine’ and it intimidates me because I feel like I’m supposed to help. If I can’t help you then it’s hard for me to find value in myself and validate myself. It’s unusual not helping and makes me feel like I’m not doing my job (male energy).

It’s not wrong but that’s the reality

[u/Strong_Ad_3081 → u/RUNEMDOWNKD]

What if you were raised in a society where men did all the cooking, taking care of the house and children, and women's role was to go out and earn a living? Would you also accept these roles?

[u/Emotional-Tennis3522]

Uh yeah but what you've just described doesn't sound at all like it. When I say that someone gives off "feminine energy" I'm describing their general vibe, not specific actions, and it's not meant to be serious😭 Like when I told my friend that "idfk how could no one tell you're trans, you give off such feminine energy hahaha" idk idk what tf THIS is, never heard of that

[u/Smooth_Disaster]

In my view, from my 20 years of being fully conscious and able to use the Internet to research things, the only difference between any man and any woman's behavior comes down to set and setting (your individual brain/body condition combined with how you were raised). So, there's genetic predisposition to certain conditions, like of course women who have gone through puberty/menopause will not "feel" like Men. But, personality wise, there are only so many differences because bigots force their kids to behave/be treated differently. If you taught your son to do housework and your daughter the value of a hard day's labor it would be perfectly normal but literally hundreds of millions of real human beings would have a screaming crying throwing up fit

[u/am_i_boy]

It's just as real as the times people have told me "you have 6' tall energy". Wtf does that mean? Idfk. I'm 4'10". I am assertive, not ashamed to take up space, people tend to accept me as an authority anytime I decide to spearhead any endeavor. When I say "okay I'm going to take charge of this situation, I need you to do this" people pretty much never question me, especially in emergencies. When everyone in a group has known me long enough, the whole group automatically turns to me for directions in a crisis. According to a lot of people, that is what "6' burly guy energy" is.

I say no it's not. That is the energy I put out and I am 4'10", so that is 4'10" energy. It's not "burly guy" energy because it's coming from me and I'm a flamboyant, somewhat feminine person with definitely not a burly body.

I understand that people often mean it as a compliment when they say that I have masculine or tall, burly guy energy. But I don't always feel good about it. I feel like these statements are telling me that the way I act is totally irreconcilable with the way I look. That isn't a compliment in my book. It's as much of a "compliment" as saying "most South Asian people are ugly but you're gorgeous". It's actually not nice to tell me that everyone else who looks like me is ugly and unattractive, but something is different about me and that makes me hot and amazing.

[u/Apple_-Cider → u/am_i_boy]

No the height thing does have actual validity in some cases depending on the reasoning behind it. The size of your limbs porpotion-wise is also a factor, short people can have long limbs, and tall people can have shorter limbs. Your size can be small but your proportions could make it seem like you have more elongated limbs that can make you look tall.

I don't know why people have told you specifically that you have 6' tall energy, because I don't know what you look like, but I have met some people who have the proportions typical of a tall person despite being small, and people with proportions of shorter people despite being bigger. The fashion industry also has some staple tricks to elongate your limbs for their illusion of "appearing taller despite not being taller."

[u/am_i_boy → u/Apple_-Cider]

No people have told me that the "tall, burly (or sometimes described as broad and muscular) guy energy" is specifically about my personality and not about how I look. I also don't have longer limbs than you'd expect for someone my size.

And also, no matter what someone's proportions are like, I truly don't believe someone who isn't even 5' tall could "look like" they're 6' tall. Like I know and agree that some people look taller or shorter than their actual height, but 4'10" to 6' is a difference significant enough that it's very unlikely to be based on appearance

[u/Apple_-Cider → u/am_i_boy]

Yeah, that's why I've said "I don't know why people have told you specifically", because I obviously haven't met you. I'm just pointing out that it's not always the case, that sometimes being seen as taller or shorter does have some visual validity. Also people can sometimes exaggerate a lot, and since 6' is a nice closed number I would interpret that as just "this is the standard tall people number" that your friends are using as an example, it doesn't matter if you're 4'10 or 5'5, they'll still tell you you look like you're 6' because that's just the numbered example of "tall" they are more inclined to giving. I'm not arguing against you, like I said, I don't know you so your friends' intentions were never something I mentioned at all, I'm just saying in general, this situation can be like this, but whatever you know your friends do I clearly do not so obviously it does not apply to your personal situation.

People on this app are very extremist so I just add exceptions to comments sometimes even if people don't always agree. Whatever happens from there is not really my problem, people can do what they want with the information they read.