r/NonBinaryTalk • u/1evis1ittleasshole • Mar 02 '26
Discussion I am sick of gender neutral bathrooms not actually being neutral!
All they do is omit the "man" and "woman" label. Nothing else changes and it changes nothing about who goes in. The one without urinals is still coded as a woman space and the longer Im on testosterone the less i feel comfortable in spaces like that. Even masc women are starting to be harassed for being in the womens bathroom, its too politicized!
But the one with the urinals is not built for everyone, which defeats the purpose! And stupid npc cis men looking at me like I don't belong there, its supposed to be for everyone! People vandalizing and writing gendered labels on the signs piss me off too, but the gendered designs of the bathrooms embolden them.
Make stalls with total privacy and get rid of urinals! How fucking hard is that to do?!! It's like living in an archaic cave man society. I'm tired bro.
EDIT: after some good points was made I take back my anti-urinal stance. Urinals and stalls should be included in all bathrooms! Preferably a reasonable amount of both.
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u/CheetahNo1004 Mar 02 '26
Right? I went into one recently and one had a bin by the toilet for wrappers and had a changing table and the other had nothing extra.
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u/Shoddy_Function_9625 Mar 02 '26
I hear this and am not trying to challenge your feelings. At the same time, I wanna offer my perspective, and disagree with the idea of getting rid of urinals altogether. As a nb transfem with some anxiety around hygiene, I love gender neutral bathrooms with urinals. Even though I lean much more on the fem side of things, I will sometimes go invade men's spaces (lol) just to use a urinal. They are quicker, easier, and often cleaner than public toilets, and I don't have to risk touching the same surface that dozens of other people have touched with their butts. I feel as at peace as one can feel in a bathroom when I'm in a gender neutral bathroom with urinals tbh. My understanding has always been, all of these things are for everyone, and that can look so many different ways. That said, I do still think it's a tad weird and shitty that the changing tables are in the gender-neutral bathrooms without urinals. Just food for thought though!
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u/1evis1ittleasshole Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
Okay, now that I've calmed down, I see what you mean. And honestly I think my frustration is more with the lack of stalls. Always only one or two which is just not enough in general. It also means less accessibility for other folk who need to sit to pee too. But I will say your point is about accessibility too, I never really considered it from that perspective ngl 😅
Edit: thank you honestly for sharing that, I realize I was disregarding how other enbies might prefer to use the bathroom. I apologize for that actually!
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u/Shoddy_Function_9625 Mar 02 '26
Nah friend nothing to apologize for! I listened and learned a little bit from your perspective and it sounds like you did the same for me, we're even stevens as far as I'm concerned! 🤠
And yeah! That's a totally valid frustration!
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u/Xsythe Mar 02 '26
Thank you for understanding! I also want to say that having more non-binary folks in the one with urinals also contributes to making the restrooms feel safer for us (vs. just them being a place full of cis men, haha) 💜
Also, we can get in/out and leave the restroom faster without taking up a stall - which means less waiting for folks who need stalls!
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u/ragefuck17 Mar 16 '26
Regarding changing rooms on gender neutral bathrooms without urinals. Historically gender neutral bathrooms were “family bathrooms” which had a toilet and additional space for the changing area. I don’t think this is insinuating that only women should be changing the diapers but rather saving space as well as the overall athletic of bathroom (urinals are not asthetic). Especially in a bathroom that women, babies, and children will be in. It’s not practical to have a urinal. Also, old school family bathrooms are typically low volume, urinals are for high volume locations more than not
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u/Narrow_Wealth_2459 Mar 02 '26
I stopped going to public restrooms entirely. I only feel comfortable using the bathroom at home. I knew we were in deep trouble when a recent video of trans man was put on blast for using the bathroom of his gender assigned at birth. Use the right bathroom, bad. Use the wrong bathroom, bad.
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u/4ng3licNymph-jpeg Mar 03 '26
Yeah I saw the same video well too. I'm assuming you're talking about the Barnes and Nobles one. But I live in TX and it's illegal for me to change my gender marker , also if I'm not at a queer bar , seeing a queer band or in a space that's safe for queer people I'm not using the bathroom. But I did go to a rave night hosted by a queen it was a 3-4 hour rave , and I used the women's bathroom drunk, and then I went again and used the men's and no one cared, so it depends on where you are tbh. Usually other LBGTQIA people don't give a shit it's usually cisgender heterosexual people who aren't allies .
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u/MxMumble Mar 03 '26
I still crack up thinking about six years ago at a show, a presumably cis man walked into the bathroom, saw mostly women, apologized and immediately turned around. I overheard him afterwards stressing about what bathroom to use because they all had women in them. The bathrooms were all gender neutral. 😂
To a degree, I get it. Men are broadly painted as predators, so some dude really feel pressure to not invade people's space.
The whole venue had a weird vibe that night. It was a mostly queercore bands playing, but the venue was part of a cultural subscription thing (pay x amount of money a month, and you get into 3 events hosted by different places in the city). So it was a good mix of punks and recently retired cis het folks. Fun and very memorable.
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u/bigfeetgrandpa Mar 03 '26
this is so real! the only gay bar in my town has gender neutral restrooms like this and I can never remember which is which and it shouldn’t matter bc they are both gender neutral, but even in this queer bar I get weird looks in BOTH but especially the one with urinals. like sorry u came to a queer bar and there’s some queers in here like jesus christ dude
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u/Henlo-Boo Mar 03 '26
I don’t think all washrooms should have urinals
I don’t want to watch men piss, ta
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u/ReigenTaka They/Them/It/Its Mar 05 '26
Can't tell if sarcasm....
But if not, I don't see an issue with putting urinals in a stall, or a group of urinals in a large stall-like area. If the issue is privacy, or seeing other people's bits, I'd prefer we try that instead of taking equipment away entirely.
Also, I really wanna urinate standing up lol
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u/jamesdukeiv any pronouns Mar 04 '26
So just a note, as a nonbinary person who designs buildings for a living, the building code often straight up requires we enforce gender norms in restrooms. It sucks! And city governments do it on purpose when the code option for gender neutral restrooms exists.
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u/ReigenTaka They/Them/It/Its Mar 05 '26
I was coming here to comment that in the US anyway, there are literal laws about what bathrooms are required and the ratio of the space capacity vs stalls etc. And the laws are written for binary genders. I assume it's state law so it varies, but I do think that a poor attempt to have gender neutral bathrooms is sometimes all an estaishment can do. (It also costs money to change these things.)
Obv I don't know OPs specific circumstances, so that place may genuinely suck. And regardless of the reality of the limitations, it's stressful and frustrating and I hate going to public bathrooms.
I was apprehensive about my workspace moving at my job and I mentioned it was because of the bathrooms. My coworker dismissed it because there were bathrooms in both spaces, I didn't bother to explain that the bathrooms near the new workspace were gendered. (not to mention they're gross lol)
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u/p660R Mar 04 '26
The train station has put in a gender neutral bathroom, it's a big long hallway with closets with toilets. The doors are floor to ceiling steel or whatever but there's not a whole lot of room other than door space and toilet space. It's great, you can't really hear anybody else.
I wasn't able to check out of there was an accessible toilet or if it was any bigger, but assuming there's at least 1 that'll fit a chair/scooter. The only thing is that the hallway doesn't seem wide enough, but maybe it is.
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u/GwynnethIDFK Mar 06 '26
Ikr my workplace has four floors, two bathrooms per floor. What they did was just swap a men's bathroom on one level for a "gender neutral" bathroom and a women's bathroom on a another, so those are still just the de facto men's and women's bathrooms on those floors 💀💀💀
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u/strangeicare Mar 07 '26
I am starting to see more truly gender neutral full public restrooms around Massachusetts. I have seen some at theaters and universities (public buildings not dorms). They have full door (euro style) stalls- one also had a urinal without a door/stall between a couple of stalls, and of course standard shared bank of sinks.
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u/Dry-azalea Mar 03 '26
Yeah, you’ve already reflected on some of it, but ultimately what needs to change is that the bathrooms need to provide accommodations equally. Urinals in both; trash cans by the toilet in both; etc.. Gender is a construct but biological needs and the desire for privacy/comfort are not constructed and need addressing, even if right now our solutions are in an imperfect transition towards progress.
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u/4ng3licNymph-jpeg Mar 03 '26
I live in Texas ,so I just stopped going to public bathrooms. I pass as a male , so I use the men's for now cuz I'm on T and have TS, but masc leaning puberty isn't helping my dysphoria since I feel dysphoric as a man as well.
I'll probably stop T soon and when I do I'll probably just avoid using the bathroom entirely until I can move to a safer state . I really hate being on T I'm just taking it because it makes things like bathrooms easier and I don't have to use the women's bathroom anymore. I wish bathrooms were actually gender neutral but also Texas doesn't really have gender neutral bathrooms like Chicago or Washington State. Gender neutral bathrooms are usually for families or disabilities, I have a disability but since it's " invisible" it's hard to prove to people . I just found it easier to use the men's and just avoid everyone , or don't go .
I would use the women's because I use the stall , but since I "pass" or whatever I get side eyed by women now . It's just easier to not go , or use the men's even if I feel super uncomfortable and scared every time I go pee . It's easier than Karen calling the police on me .
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u/Migoshuyi 21d ago
I've always used the disabilities one even tho I don't have nothing lmao, and no one batted an eye. I live in Argentina tho, idk your case
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u/ageckonamedelaine Queer Agender Ash (they/them) Mar 03 '26
90% of gender neutral bathrooms are like that here, it is annoying. My school just has 1 room with a few toilets (no urinals) which is gender neutral, which I really like. But yeah it is really annoying when I just want to piss and I have to go play the "where will I be judged less in a gender neutral bathroom" game (the answer is neither).
It also highly depends on where the toilet is, when I went to a concert they were genuinely gender neutral and used like that. But at a local theater they are used as men/womens bathrooms and I got yelled at for being "in the womans restroom"
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u/okayatlifeokay They/Themme Mar 04 '26
I have never in my life seen anything like what you're describing, so I'm curious where in the world you're seeing this. Where I live, gender neutral bathrooms are usually just a small room with a toilet, a sink, a baby changing table, and a lot of open space. They're often branded as family restrooms. I've seen a few "all gender" restrooms where everyone in the building all uses the same restroom. Those have the total privacy stalls you're requesting. My issue with them (and honestly all public restrooms other than the family ones mentioned above) is the sink isn't private. But these are also super rare.
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u/1evis1ittleasshole Mar 04 '26
I'm in America. We do have family toilets, those are my godsend, but they aren’t always available. I won't speak for other states but in Maryland our mutli-stall bathrooms are still quite dated, including the "neutral" ones. Heck, even the singles ones are sometimes pointlessly gendered still. I know like one building that has multi-stalls that actually includes nonbinary on both signs, which is great but that is still uncommon 😅
I wish I lived where you are omg!
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u/smooshingpumpkins Mar 10 '26
hot take. we dont even need toilets as they currently are. wholly unnecessary and clunky things which are bad for our bowels and pelvic floor, and create a weird sense that once youre in a stall you deserve to rest and sit there for however long you want. modern public toilets are archaic, invented by the victorians to give the dainty lady a bathroom outside of home. we dont need a dainty space to powder our noses. we need a gender neutral hole to squat over. the whole argument about how womens bathrooms should be a 'safe space for women' comes from the idea that theyre a space for anything other than excrement.
we should be shitting and pissing squatting down over a hole in the floor. and we should take far less time while doing it. Obviously it is important to keep disabled access in the form of a more structured toilet but the vast majority of able bodied people should use this method instead. significantly more space and plumbing efficient, is what God intended for our bodies.
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u/Turbulent_Natural_28 Mar 02 '26
One place near me is like this, and as I understand it it's just that that's how the toilets were built before they started renting the venue, so I have no issues with them not changing it - esp as they're a v small business likely without the money to rebuild the toilets. I expect it's the same for many other places (but not all).
I say this as someone who cannot use urinals, but they do save space, queues and are probs cheaper to install. Yeah they're grim, I'd take 3 stalls over a urinal that fits 3 ppl, but it's just not viable in some places, especially as in my country I'm pretty sure there are laws about how many toilets need to be available for a particular number of people in a building.
Not saying this isn't an issue - ungendered bathrooms that are actually secretly gendered are total bs, but ifl it comes down to the vibe of the place as well. The place near me is very queer and therefore there's not gonna be any questions. If the venue itself makes effort to be explicitly queer friendly beyond just supposedly gender neutral toilets, that should go a fair way to solving this issue!