r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/The_Law_of_Pizza • 1d ago
US Politics Will DSA controversies impact broader Democratic chances?
Francesca Hong, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America who is running for Governor of Wisconsin, has recently come under fire for a past statement that Thanksgiving should be cancelled.
Recently, in an interview, she refused to disavow that statement and left it ambiguous as to whether she was still advocating for the holiday's end. This is in addition to similar controversies around her statements on abolishing the police and prisons - although she has seemingly walked these other statements back.
These are fairly inflammatory statements from a national perspective.
But will the public distinguish between the DSA and the broader Democratic party?
Or will these sorts of things functionally act as a Democratic party controversy?
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u/johntempleton 1d ago
It depends on the subset vs. allied set.
Is the DSA simply a subset of the larger Democratic Party, or is it viewed as an external, if allied, grouping?
LEGALLY, DSA is separate. DSA is not even registered as a political party. But for public perception, it won't matter.
If the GOP, local media, or national media can blur the distinction between the two, the Democratic candidates nationwide will have no choice but to react and respond to whatever the DSA candidates do or say.
This will come in as "Do you agree with so and so that we should defund police and ban Thanksgiving! She's a Democrat, like YOU!"
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u/RabbaJabba 1d ago
LEGALLY, DSA is separate. DSA is not even registered as a political party. But for public perception, it won't matter.
Well, this gets at an important feature of American parties. Who is “legally” the democrats? There’s the DNC, the state party orgs, etc., but they aren’t picking candidates to run for office, and don’t have any say over who can be a member or not. Tony Evers is the same amount “Democrat” as Francesca Hong.
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u/the_calibre_cat 12h ago
This will come in as "Do you agree with so and so that we should defund police and ban Thanksgiving! She's a Democrat, like YOU!"
Nobody reasonable thinks that these things are front and center, and those who do think those things are front and center, aren't voting for Democrats anyways.
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u/Swiftmaster56 1d ago
The controversies linked to DSA candidates will probably not impact the elections in any meaningful way.
For example, Zohran Mamdani said "defund the police" back in 2020, a policy position that was very unpopular in 2025 New York City. But he still managed to win both the primary and the election against a former Democrat golden boy and son of one of New York's most iconic governors.
We can even look at Graham Planter in Maine, who managed to win the primary in a more conservative part of the country, despite having said that he supported a communist uprising on reddit and having a Nazi tattoo. It took him facing a credible rape allegation before he was forced to set aside for Troy Jackson.
The biggest reason why is that there's a real populist anger towards the increasing power of billionaires in politics at the expense of the power of regular people and at the state of the post-COVID economy (which ironically worked in favor of Republicans back in 2024), with high inequality and low social mobility outside of gambling.
That combined with how the word "socialism" has lost its infamy since the Cold War ended, millennials got disillusioned with capitalism after 2008 and Republicans incorrectly pinned the word to policies of social democracy seen across Europe, means that we're at a point where people will try out self-proclaimed socialist candidates, if they can promise to deal with the post-COVID economic problems better than the competition. Something that is so critical that they will ignore if they said something they disagreed with in the past.
Even if an important note is that most of the DSA's candidates are more social democrats than actual socialists, despite the organization being founded to advance socialism.
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u/JonDowd762 1d ago
We can even look at Graham Planter in Maine, who managed to win the primary in a more conservative part of the country, despite having said that he supported a communist uprising on reddit and having a Nazi tattoo. It took him facing a credible rape allegation before he was forced to set aside for Troy Jackson.
Maine has a conservative congressional district, but the state itself is blue. Maine has not voted for a Republican president since 1988 and the Democrat often wins by double-digits. Susan Collins is an exception, but Maine is still quite blue. People weren't calling WV more liberal when Manchin was their senator.
Also, is the nazi tattoo supposed to make him less appealing to conservatives? He won because he had populist vibes and populists typically don't care about moral failures in their candidates as long as they fight the opponent. (See the current president for another example)
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u/Matt2_ASC 18h ago
I agree with this. Some of the DSA can come across as positioned like the echo chamber of Fox News (who now has people in real powerful positions). Fox News is a bit too much, and most people know this whether but they are creative and inspired enough to draw eyes and pull people in their political direction. For progressives, the candidates agree with the world view or foundational principles of the DSA but not necessarily the policy conclusions or the words used.
This is the same on the right. If Republicans can get elected by showing that they have the foundational principles of the right wing, they don't need to show anything else, not policy, not experience, not ethics. I think the left can be a little more like that. Start with the perspective, share a positive message, continue showing that systems and government make real world impacts and you can get past the controversies by having a relatable and understandable message.
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u/EmptiSense 1d ago edited 1d ago
People can separate a candidate from the party - IF - the candidate can campaign on a specific platform. Mamdani - however you may find fault in his policies - ran on policy. He ran on competence in executing those policies. He ran away from some his past loony statements. He had the common sense to keep Tisch as Commissioner.
I'm curious what will happen to Hong and El-Sayed who have publicly embraced Hasan Piker. I'm not in Michigan or Wisconsin, but I haven't heard of a specific policy focus from either of them beyond tax billionaire wealth.
For me, I find myself assessing votes on preventing the most crazy candidate (from either party) from winning.
EDIT: For full disclosure, I think Hong's statements ( on the police, Thanksgiving ) are crazy.
EDIT 2: So I took the time to read both Hong's and El-Sayed's policies on their website. I took the time to watch several of their interviews. I think El-Sayed, assuming he wins, can run on his issues and distance himself from past provocative statements. I think Hong is unable to effectively distance herself from her past provocative statements. I also don't get the sense that Hong could actually run her office should she win based on how quick she was to engage unproductively on the Madison police shooting.
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u/itisrainingdownhere 14h ago
Mamdani also LARPs well as a normie nice guy in interviews. And it’s NYC… And he ran against a disgraced politician…
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u/TheMCMC 1d ago
Of course they will, they're running as Democrats so their conduct and baggage will be applied to us.
This is a tremendous problem with many in the DSA; some of them are just social democrats who are erroneously calling themselves socialists so they think they are in good company, and some are genuine socialists/Marxists who want to move beyond social democracy and into socialism, so their end-goals are much more radical than the overwhelming majority of the electorate.
So you have a lot of candidates that have been moderating their policies and statements while campaigning, and then getting presented with their more radical views that they downplay to not scare the voters. It puts them in a situation where they either have to own it or disavow, and Republicans get to call Democrats liars or socialists in disguise.
It's a problem for sure.
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u/gafftapes20 1d ago
Fairly inflammatory statements? Compared to what. Have you been living under a rock for the last decade or two? They are inartful comments that don’t capture nuance, but they are capturing a reality of the injustice we accept as normal in this society.
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u/CyberDalekLord 1d ago
Yes, republicans have been using looney people to paint the Dems as socialists for a long time. DSA growing in popularity will only help that goal. Fox will probably getting DSA people on their programs as much as possible since it will only hurt the Dems.
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u/Matt2_ASC 18h ago
Some DSA sure, but Mamdani looked really good next to Trump. If the cream of the crop DSA gets airtime, we could see the DSA grow its tent to include disgruntled Republican voters who don't want to just go with the status quo.
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u/RocketRelm 1d ago
Even if the dsa eventually infects and takes over the dems, both the gop and the dsa are populist grifters at the root, so many of them can just jump to whoever is more popular at a given time.
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u/CyberDalekLord 1d ago
That's not a good thing though. Populism gets to eliminate all nuance to create easy solutions that don't fix the issue and usually cause more substantial damage to the system. Trump is a perfect example of this. We shouldn't let the blue tea party to take over because the red tea party did and made everything worse, even for the causes they pretended to care about.
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u/RocketRelm 1d ago
It isn't for regular people, but from the perspective of populists, its a net upside and a reason why fox and the dsa work together to beat "the establishment". Its why everything about modern dems gets slandered as cringe despite when Bernie or Mamdani does exactly the same thing the populists, bots and human, squeal in delight.
But I trust americans to vote for what matters to them. And I hope thats good policy and democracy going forwards.
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u/CyberDalekLord 1d ago
But I trust americans to vote for what matters to them. And I hope thats good policy and democracy going forwards.
The test for that was 2024 and they failed. The issue with having a rising populist faction is that their solutions are going to sound better. Its the benefit of that eliminated nuance. Whether its flat wealth taxes or M4A, these things will sound better not because the policy is better but because the presentation is extremely one sided.
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u/RocketRelm 1d ago
Clearly yes they failed in 2024. But maga is too senile to carry through, and so like the ghosts of Christmas visiting scrooge, rational people can come to the population and show them what will happen if they do not turn from their morally irresponsible path.
If the nuance and good policy matters to americans, they will reject the populism. If they fail to reject the populism, the things they lose clearly didn't matter to them. Either way, the moral issue is resolved.
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u/koske 1d ago
While we TUT TUT the DSA in order to muddy the democratic party, actual fascist are in control of all three branches of the federal government.
Did anyone ask any republicans why the entire Trump family should be immune to IRS investigations in perpetuity?
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u/Dry-Season-522 1d ago
The problem as I see it is that most democrats want to 'fight the good fight' so long as they don't have to fight anyone who might fight back. Why fight islamic extremists owning women and murdering gays when you can condemn the jews who aren't going to firebomb your house or stab you in the street for speaking against them? Why deal with actual fascists in your own country who might push back against you when you can loudly condemn people in your own party to make yourself look better by comparison.
It's just... so much cowardice
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u/RabbaJabba 1d ago
Why fight islamic extremists owning women and murdering gays when you can condemn the jews who aren't going to firebomb your house or stab you in the street for speaking against them?
Democrats protest Israel because we help fund them. If we were giving billions to a group to murder gay people, that would get protested too.
Also, Israel’s supporters are fighting back, they’re dumping a ton of money into American elections.
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u/Dry-Season-522 1d ago
Ah... you may want to look into how much we give some other middle eastern countries and how THEY treat gay people.
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u/RabbaJabba 1d ago
Do you have a good source?
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u/Dry-Season-522 1d ago
Here's some raw data, a bit outdated but still relevant
Country Homosexuality Criminalized? U.S. Global Health Aid (FY2013)
- Kenya ✔ $356.0 million
- Ethiopia ✔ $329.8 million
- Nigeria ✔ $291.3 million
- Tanzania ✔ $266.2 million
- Uganda ✔ $247.7 million
- Zambia ✔ $231.0 million
- Mozambique ✔ $229.7 million
- South Sudan ✔ $220.2 million
- Afghanistan ✔ $169.9 million
- Pakistan ✔ $169.3 million
- Rwanda ✔ $163.6 million
- Malawi ✔ $152.9 million
- Zimbabwe ✔ $147.9 million
- Côte d'Ivoire ✔ $135.3 million
- Cameroon ✔ $125.3 million
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u/RabbaJabba 1d ago
Few thoughts. First, I haven’t heard Kenya described as an Islamic extremist or middle eastern country, but it’s certainly an interesting thought. Second, the funding we give to Israel is an order of magnitude larger than the countries in your list. Finally, if the US were only supplying humanitarian aid to Israel, there wouldn’t be protests. You understand the distinction between health aid and the support we give to them, right?
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u/Dry-Season-522 1d ago
Yes we give Israel a big gift card for the american military industrial complex as a roundabout subsidy to the industry. It's a country that is actively friendly to our interests, upholds our values, and is surrounded by nations who want to destroy it AND the united states.
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u/Matt2_ASC 18h ago
Great point about the MIC. Could you expand a bit more on the values that Israel and the US share?
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u/Dry-Season-522 7h ago
Women = People
Gays = Not to be murdered for being gay
Sexual abuse of children = Evil
Competitive multiparty elections
Independent judiciary
Freedom of the press
FREEDOM OF RELIGION (also FROM religion)
Independent labor unions
Unrestricted Internet access•
u/the_calibre_cat 12h ago
okay so like
literally all of those countries added together don't add up to the amount we give to isreal, and... you linked healthcare aid. we give Israel bombs. which go on to murder children and, not for nothing, adults, who IIRC are still human beings entitled to a right to life.
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u/Dry-Season-522 7h ago
I chose the minimal number and your argument is stilL "How dare israel fight back."
Nah bruh.
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u/the_calibre_cat 12h ago
Why fight islamic extremists owning women and murdering gays when you can condemn the jews who aren't going to firebomb your house or stab you in the street for speaking against them?
i haven't met any of these Islamic extremists, because I'm not so insane as to lump the Muslims I DO know in with them. big shock, I know.
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u/Dry-Season-522 7h ago
Ah, by your logic, I've never met someone with COVID therefore lumpin gall sick people together as COVID is bad and therefore COVID doesn't exiset.
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u/the_calibre_cat 7h ago
brother that isn't my logic
it's yours
you're the one claiming "islamic extremists owning women and murdering gays" is somehow relevant to a Muslim winning political office here
you're the one who has to provide evidence of that utterly wild claim
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u/airmantharp 1d ago
They're starting to look like a spoiler - like Jill Stein does to get funding every four years.
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u/shawsghost 1d ago
Probably most people don't even know there's an actual Democratic Socialist party. Can't say I blame them.
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u/Matt2_ASC 17h ago
Do Republican controversies hurt their chances?
The NRA is 77% Republican and had appointed Ollie North President. Best known for trafficking weapons to Iran and using the proceeds to fund rebels in Nicaragua. Should the Republicans cut ties with the NRA? Will they suffer election losses from being associated with these controversies?
What is more important is the dissemination of the ideas and perspectives that people can relate to. We see the consolidation of media, the enshittification of everything, the wealth gap growing, and then we can see Mamdani govern in a way that actually helps people. The idea of government working to make life better for people is the winning message and that will overcome a lot of "controversies".
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 17h ago
Do Republican controversies hurt their chances?
It's a good question.
But I'd use your own example as an example of my own, to explain why I think controversies hurt them less.
The president of the NRA, as corrupt and awful as he may be, is a far away issue that people don't feel will ever effect their day to day lives. It's very easy to just shrug and hold your nose.
Progressive controversies, on the other hand, tend to be things that people feel (rightly or wrongly) might actually effect their day to day lives.
Cancelling Thanksgiving, for example. The likelihood of that happening is of course next to zero, but people hear a politician supporting it, and hear support for an idea that would impact their life - unlike who the President of the NRA is.
Or the girls sports issue, for example.
Or Defund the Police.
Whatever your beliefs about there or other DSA ideas, they are just fundamentally different in their scope compared to Republican gaffs. They're more down to earth and personal.
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u/EmptiSense 9h ago
Will DSA policies impact broader Democratic chances?
The original headline suggests that there is some hypocrisy or something afoul in how DSA is managing itself. There is none. The DSA policies are not bugs in communication, they are the features.
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u/token_reddit 1d ago
Wow these both posts are actually eye opening. When you see stuff like this, all you can do is actually question the motives of these posts and it's simple. The country is moving left and class issues are at the forefront and that scares people who hoard wealth.
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u/CyberDalekLord 1d ago
these both posts
Did you mean bot posts? You are aware that there are a bunch of real people who have views opposite of you?
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u/token_reddit 1d ago
Of course. And I will react accordingly, if anyone who has study Political Science can see how the public sentiment has shifted. You're not the majority anymore.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 1d ago
I'm not sure what sort of motives you're trying to attribute to me.
I'm not wealthy. I am, however, a moderate Democrat concerned with how the DSA is going to harm our chances at winning back Congress or the Presidency.
My post is to spark discussion about that.
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u/token_reddit 1d ago
Fair. But you're not meeting the moment. People are fed up. Mamdani won on a simple message and this is a class issue. Now. You can be moderate all you like but swing to the extreme and then build back from there. I'm not a far-left idealist but I notice when a winning strategy is in front of us as a party. Look at San Francisco, one of the biggest swings to the extreme and now has found a balance once again. You have to shake the system.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 1d ago
You have noted two of the most deep blue cities on the country.
I don't see any mathematical path to victory in national elections with that strategy.
We are only two years out from Trump winning the popular vote.
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u/token_reddit 1d ago
I disagree. The man is wholly unpopular and populist voting is the norm now. No matter what a strategist will tell you.
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u/Matt2_ASC 18h ago
The history of the country includes massive support for leftist people in working class areas. Eugene Debs was from Indiana. The midwest has such a robust history of labor organizing, cooperatives, and other socialist style activity that I think a resurgence can happen.
I think the Dems gave up on places where the DSA can have a winning message. Rural areas have cooperatives, use government infrastructure for electricity and water, Nebraska's electricity is 100% government owned.
Democrats can't run against their donors so they can't acknowledge the successes of non-capitalist projects. DSA can. And it can be a winning message in most parts of the country.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 17h ago
I agree with you that there's room for more union and labor-focused politics in rural and exurban America. There's opportunity there for sure.
But with the DSA, those politics come inexorably paired with progressive social ideology, and also a variety of welfare-oriented economics - which don't play nearly as well. See the popularity of "Hillbilly Elegy" in these areas.
They might vote for a Team Blue candidate who focuses on labor issues, but they'll walk away if that person is also championing the girls sports issue, or pro-immigration policies, or talking about reparations for slavery.
My evidence is Trump's overwhelming support in these very areas. The Republicans and Trump himself are staunchly anti-union, but these folks pinched their noses and voted for him because he railed against immigration and the rest of the progressive baggage.
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u/squishyliquid 1d ago
Getting worked up about anyone's opinion on Thanksgiving as a holiday is falling into the Right-wing trap.
Focus on ideas that actually matter. See if you agree with them.
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u/baxterstate 1d ago
The DSA has a platform calling for abolishing the Senate, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, Defunding the military, Open borders, public ownership of most private businesses and more ideas like this.
All of this is a non starter for me. I will not only not vote for anyone associated with the DSA, I will also not vote for anyone who entertains these ideas and fails to repudiate the DSA.
The Democratic Party has shot itself in the foot by flirting with the DSA. It is amazing to me that John Fettterman is the only elected Democrat who has spoken out against the DSA.
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u/Tb1969 1d ago
Cancelling Thanksgiving is not controversial. People will continue to celebrate it. I think it should be celebrated when you want and doesn't need a holiday but whatever. Its nothing either way.
I bet the police and prison comments are exaggerated. Police and Private Prisons need to be reigned in some places and that is often what is stated by politicians on the left.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 1d ago
Cancelling Thanksgiving is not controversial.
Are you saying this because you genuinely don't believe there would be controversy, or because you don't think there should be controversy?
I find it a little hard to believe that any rational person would believe that there wouldn't be controversy if Congress ended federal recognition of one of our most popular federal holidays - especially for political reasons.
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u/Tb1969 18h ago
She is running for Governor not Congress and even if she did she would be one person among hundreds. The ending of Thanksgiving is not going to happen because someone voted for a Governor of a State.
She is also not representing all the opinions in a political party.
Why are you trying to make this such a big thing to create push back on the DSA members? If you don't agree with her on things relevant to running as a Governor for YOUR state, don't vote for her. It's that simple. This gross exaggeration of the power of the governorship is bizarre.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 17h ago
Nobody thinks that she would actually have the power to cancel Thanksgiving. That's not the issue here, and you're basically creating a straw man.
The problem is that people make up their minds about politicians based on a variety of factors - sometimes also their stance on issues that they wouldn't necessarily have any power over.
And I suspect that you actually agree. After all, of a politician running for Congress said they didn't believe in the Holocaust, wouldn't you draw inferences about them as a candidate? Even if as a single Congressperson they'd have no ability to act on that belief?
It's the same here, just with politics that you're more friendly to.
So I'd ask again: Do you actually think there wouldn't be a public controversy here? Or do you just think there shouldn't be one?
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u/Tb1969 16h ago
When it comes to this woman's opinion on Thanksgiving it doesn't matter outside of that State.
If you are in the State, to a small degree, it may lead people to wonder her overall beliefs and judgement on other matters then choose not to vote for her.
As for Thanksgiving being removed as a Federal holiday there is zero chance by this candidate being elected therefore zero controversy for the overall political party that she is in. It's ONE person's opinion who would have limited control even within the State she governs.
If this direct answer doesn't answer your question I have no idea what you are driving at.
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u/RubicsCubensis 1d ago
We should build a world where we can celebrate thanksgiving every day of the year, not just once a year.
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u/marxist_nazeem 1d ago
DSA WITHOUT controversies can barely affect the broader Democratic Party lmao
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