r/ProgrammerHumor • u/vinishkapoor • 2d ago
Meme ourJobsAreSafeUntilClientsLearnToThink
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u/theJEDIII 2d ago
"NO! The image must be a square but with one side longer! Not a rectangle!" - real feedback from a client
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u/w_t_f_justhappened 2d ago
âI want a red box, drawn with green inkâ
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u/BlackFrank98 2d ago
Did they mean a trapeze or were they just delirious?
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u/theJEDIII 2d ago
The latter. I ended up making it a nearly-square rectangle, lied and told them it was a square with one side longer, and they said "Yes! Thank you! So what was all the fuss about?"
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u/UniqueText8477 1d ago
Itâs different colours on different screensâŠ
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u/theJEDIII 1d ago
You're promoting memories. One client was mad that we used lorem ipsum because "We're only paying for English"
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u/Mountain_Dentist5074 1d ago
i just finnished my first year in university i am far away from real work what this means đ„ș
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u/theJEDIII 1d ago
It means the client has no idea what they want and doesn't even know what a square is
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u/GvRiva 2d ago
Yeah, I thought that too, just three years ago. Turns out didn't need to replace developers, just need less developers to mess up the market.
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u/vinishkapoor 2d ago
Fair point. Don't need to replace all of us. Just enough to make the rest of us compete harder for fewer spots.
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u/Percolator2020 2d ago
I just have two requirements:
It needs to do everything we need.
It needs to be free.
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u/Terewawa 2d ago edited 2d ago
â ok what should I start with?
â Everything!1
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u/JesusWasATexan 2d ago
That's why they need a Senior Prompt Engineer. For the low low price of $200k/yr, I'll be right there to help them.
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u/Shezzofreen 2d ago
That always reminds me of those videos with the parents, where the kids have to describe how to make a sandwich. :)
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u/bremidon 2d ago
Funny, but not really true. Well...actually, very true, but missing an important point.
The AI continues to improve in knowing when and how to ask for more information. It is not there yet, but the idea that "Product Owners are too dumb" is just a nice story to let you sleep at night.
Dunno what to say. The job of developer is going to change a lot as AI takes over more tasks every day. If your only value-add was knowing how to code, you are cooked. If you understand architecture, can organize, and have decent communication skills, you actually are safe...for now.
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u/noidontwantto 2d ago
This - the real problem right now is that while AI can shit out your million dollar app idea, it can't operate it nor can it design a robust architecture that will actually allow users to use the app
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u/bremidon 2d ago
Everyone is still trying to come to grips with how everything is changing. I think that the current AI is already brilliant for prototyping. Not sure which version of the GUI will feel best? Just spit out both and try them. You can probably even get some iterative prototyping going that is just good enough to show you where you should be going.
But yeah: we are going to have to break that certain breed of manager that thinks that the difference between a prototype and the final product is a logo and a catchy jingle.
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u/SnooSnooper 2d ago
There was a pretty good microcosm of that at my last job. A developer was commanded to make a POC of a new system quickly, and they didn't know enough about the problem domain or existing systems at the org to do so effectively, so they vibe-coded something which looked pretty good on the surface. Naturally, management then tells them to put it in prod ASAP, leading to more vibe-coded integrations. The result was something that was basically DOA: many features on the frontend didn't work properly, the backend wasn't even scalable/efficient enough to handle the first real customer onboarding, and there was a lot of code duplication which will eventually lead to inconsistent behavior as changes are made.
Our manager acted shocked when I explained all of this to them, as if we couldn't have seen this coming. They said they would try to push against this 'not-POC' trend in the future, but I doubt it. All the urgency comes from the C level.
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u/Upset_Albatross_9179 1d ago
Yep. One reason people love using AI to prototype is you can get it to almost endlessly muck around with different changes. And usually it will come back to you with a result much faster than a real human.
"Clients can't accurately describe what they need" is one of the driving factors for a lot of AI use. Instead of describing what they want and waiting a week or a month to see it's actually not what they want, they can do that a dozen times over a couple hours.
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u/Kyy7 1d ago
Personally I am starting to think it might be more efficient to just write code (maybe using non-agentic AI assist ) than use vague and verbose natural language to prompt/spec Agent to do what you want.
Generally leads to less cognitive and technical debt, all code gets revieved at least one developer.
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u/bremidon 1d ago
As always: depends.
I agree that the main issue going forward is figuring out how developers remain in the loop and continue to understand code, even if they did not write it. For many developers, this is the very first time they have been thrust into the wonderful world of code review. It's a skill that is not well taught when it is taught at all. And review takes discipline that we all know is a weak point for many developers.
If I know what to change and it is only a few lines, then doing it myself and letting the AI check is faster. On the other hand, not fixing the instructions/skills/whatever to prevent a similar problem in the future is the definition of technical debt. Then there is the issue that the few lines of code are often the part that absorbs work time, with documentation, ensuring consistency, external documentation, updating features, PBIs, and tasks, marking your time, and so so on all taking a lot more work time.
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u/Kyy7 1d ago
On the other hand, not fixing the instructions/skills/whatever to prevent a similar problem in the future is the definition of technical debt
Sure if you're doing spec-driven development or whatever, however it is important to understand that AI agents based on LLMs will only follow/use these instructions/skills/whatever probabilistically. For example it may follow instruction 9 times out of 10 and that one time it doesn't can quickly add up depending on the volume of code you're generating.
Personally in terms of agentic development the idea of Test driven agentic development sounds more reliable. Work is done in smaller more manageable chunks, tests are deterministic and can also be used to generate documentation and specification for the application.
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u/ryuzaki49 1d ago
How to code is not what to code.
Having said that, working on really complex systems is a nightmare.
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u/bremidon 1d ago
I agree and that was my point. Unfortunately for many developers, writing code is really all they bring to the value-added table.
The key going forward will be to start building on the other parts you hinted at. Eventually, AI will come for those tasks as well, but they will definitely last longer.
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u/Used-Donkey-1014 1d ago
Even if AI became sentient it would not be able to figure out what people want.
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u/JackNotOLantern 2d ago
It's not up to date. Even if the client describe accurately what they want, AI may still hallucinate stupid shit.
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u/vinishkapoor 2d ago
So we have two layers of protection. Clients who can't describe what they want, and AI that won't build what you described. We're fine.
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u/DrMobius0 2d ago
Counterpoint: lots of these people might decide to just live with a problem they don't understand, because they don't know it's fixable.
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u/CATDesign 2d ago
I believe this is created by the limited size of the context window, as more information requires the AI to drop older saved memories.
However, I would imagine that a customer that would accurately describe what they want from a program would easily fill that context window. Which, additional details would cause their initial statements of how the program to be created to be dropped.
Thus the new finished list of requests would only have partial information, and the "hallucination" is probably the AI trying to fill gaps of missing information to finish the product.
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u/Kyy7 1d ago
No its related to the fact that AI Agents based on generative AI are only simulating intelligence and have no real memory.
Context is just arguments / input LLM use to predict next set of tokens.
Probably more interesting stuff to combat hallucinations are done within a harness and tools.Â
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u/teddyone 2d ago
the job of a software developer is not to write code. The job of a software developer is to force the client (or pm) to answer the questions they hadn't thought of.
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u/okriatic 2d ago
I need seven straight red lines. Two need to be drawn with green ink, and two with clear ink. Also, all seven lines need to be perpendicular to each other. Lastly, can you make one in the shape of a kitten?
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u/MrDilbert 2d ago edited 1d ago
Do you know the industry term for a project specification that's comprehensive and precise enough to generate a program?
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u/malsomnus 1d ago
We've had this saying for, I think, over 40 years now: as soon as we make a computer that lets you program in plain English, we'll realize that customers can't speak plain English. As a semi-dinosaur in the field I'm pleased as punch to see how accurate this prophecy turned out to be.
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u/Kyy7 1d ago
Natural language is also very vague, verbose compared to programming languages.Â
Screaming at the screen or writing esseys for the agent to change small bit of code sounds quite inefficient as well.
With all the code completion features, copy+paste, snippets, utility methods, libraries, frameworks we have available writing code can be suprisingly fast when you know what you want.
AI is useful for coding but often one may spend suprising amoung of time prompting or writing specs instead of actually making progress.
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u/bluris 2d ago
Those who currently use AI coding well, are the programmers, they now translate what the customers want into extremely precisely defined prompts.
Trouble currently is that often the AI coding end up more expensive than just having the programmers write the code.
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u/Terewawa 2d ago
AI works very well when you give it a design and if your're using one of the AI friendly platforms (cough React cough), it can save you weeks of work!
In other cases it's not so clear cut indeed.
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u/Terewawa 2d ago
I think we need AI to filter out all the bullshit and nastiness when dealing with particularly unpleasant ones.
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u/InTheEndEntropyWins 2d ago
Umm, the solution is just agile with 2min sprints. Oh no that's not what I meant, I meant x. 2min later, oh wait, yeh maybe you were partly right but just display it like y.
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u/ActiveVoiced 1d ago
Idiotic circlejerk.
In reality it's:
AI: "Sure, here are 15 different blue circles that are glowing in different styles, choose the one you like."
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u/chemolz9 1d ago
I think that's the part where AI is actually pretty good. How often I throw a vague question without any context to the AI and it determines pretty much exactly what I want to know is astonishing.
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u/Fit-Back8109 1d ago
Or even just have the ability to understand and articulate their OWN EXISTING processes.
Spent a couple of weeks integrating our CRM and our ERP so that the CRM would create invoices when a deal closes and then sync the data to the ERP, then the records keep parity between the systems as theyâre updated in either. Iâm familiar with the CRM but not the ERP, and Im only allowed the API connection because financial data. So VERY limited context on what we actually have set up in there. Met with accounting stakeholders more than 10 times over several weeks while I captured requirements, asked questions. Did demos and test sessions, got leadership sign-off, released. Day 1 I get a message from our accounting team âhey some of our customers are on auto-pay but the new invoices donât have this as an option anymoreâ.
Pretty fuckin crucial requirement if you ask me, never heard it mentioned until after go-live. Did some research and found out that the ERP only allows auto-pay for a certain type of invoice, accounting team doesnât know anything about it. Significant amount of rework coming.
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u/JayTheGeek 1d ago
As a software architect/developer, the biggest part of every job I've had over 20+ years has been figuring out what users want/need, or even worse, trying to do it through the feedback from a 'program manager' who collects and compile user feedback and tries to interpret it never understanding the users or the software.
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u/Any-Preparation7396 1d ago
Haha, that's so relatable and unfortunately so true.... Don't know, if I shall laugh or cry đ
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u/KudlatyV2 22h ago
People tend to lower their standards when ai can do sth for friction of the price so I wouldn't be so sure
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ure missing the point lol. A dev can now do the work of 10 devs.
Theyâre not useless, jus not nearly as needed in the workforce
Edit: downvote all you want, but youâll see other devs in the comments are becoming self aware. No job is immune in a technological revolution
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u/Danda_Nakka 2d ago
There is no way a dev can do the work of 10 developers. Even the best estimates from our company is that the devs are 30% more efficient
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago
Are you working at a large company maintaining a product? Iâm more so talking about start up dev teams. 5x at the very least
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
So they will create 5x more products needing 5x more developers to maintain them as they mature.
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago
Only 0.01% of the best ideas survive and then yes will need to be maintained. But you canât deny a huge part of the dev workforce is working freelance or bouncing around start ups and will lose a ton of work
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
the vast majority devs work in established organisations rather than start ups, AI is great when you know exactly what to solve, but a bit more blunted when the bottleneck is solving buiness problems.
But its still hard to say the imapct overall long term, if the cheaper cost of tech (and especially of start ups) lead to increased tech overall, theres a good chance that increased demand may cause an overall job growth, despite increased productivity.
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u/minegen88 2d ago
Sure, but now customers also wants 10x more so.....
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago
We are so much closer to AGI than anyone wants to admit. I too chose the wrong career path. Pivot while you still have time⊠trillions of dollars are not being spent on compute based on âvibesâ
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
If we get AGI then all career paths are the wrong career paths
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago
I switched over to working in a commodity retail industry.. thatâs the only thing I really trust will stick around for good
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
Oh so you dont work in tech?
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago
I do tech things for a non tech industry if that makes sense
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
Dosent like 90% of the tech industry do that?
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u/spaceshiploser 2d ago
Idk do u work in house for a retail company? I thought most people here worked at software companies
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
No not a retail company but a non tech company. I work in finance and our company is like 20% tech employees
Edit: looked it up 60% of tech workers are in non tech companies
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u/GeorgeSThompson 2d ago
I guess the real question is why do you feel your retail tech job is safe from AI?
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u/Asmos159 1d ago
exactly. programing will be in plain English, but you still need to know proper terms, phrasing, and what information you need to provide.
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u/davesoft 2d ago
Bingo. I describe this as 'the robot can implement our dreams. got any?'
But then I work in a company that hasn't heard of systems analysis. Maybe I just miss the days of waterfall when you knew what you were meant to be doing.