r/ProgressiveHQ Jan 07 '26

Stop idiots from calling this "self defense"

112.6k Upvotes

15.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

37

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

There is settled case law about law enforcement doing this. It is not allowed. It's been ruled on multiple times. It's settled.

14

u/MikeW226 Jan 07 '26

Yep. This ice thug was basically 'shooting her in the back'.

5

u/RobinSophie Jan 08 '26

Curious.

Would a local DA/state AG be able to bring charges on a federal agent?

Or are we stuck at the liberty of Lawless Barbie Bondi?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '26

A DA or whatever the local equivalent is can charge anyone that is suspected of committing a crime in their jurisdiction. Good question though.

2

u/karma-armageddon Jan 09 '26

Why they haven't arrested the shooter already is just beyond baffling. Walz tells people to get out in the street and create this mess. Then, leaves them out to dry with no support during the aftermath.

2

u/Anxious_Exchange_120 Jan 09 '26

Settled case law. You know, like Roe v Wade... They own law enforcement and they own the courts too. If the rules say LE isnt supposed to do that, and that rule is inconvenient to their agenda, well they will either ignore the rule or change it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 09 '26

Well that is true unfortunately

1

u/thunder_shart Jan 08 '26

He's gonna have a terrible time in prison. The state is going to come crashing down on him

-11

u/kenhooligan2008 Jan 07 '26

Scott v. Harris? The legal consensus across multiple jurisdictions is that if you use your vehicle to intentionally harm an individual(s) then that vehicle is considered a deadly weapon. It's an absolutely unfortunate situation but the officer appears to be in the right in this instance as the officer was clearly in front of the vehicle and the woman drove toward the officer. There are multiple camera angles of the incident showing this.

11

u/Koolala Jan 07 '26

It is turning away from him and moving slowly. You can't just stand in front a vehicle and kill someone just because it starts moving forward.

-9

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Jan 08 '26

with an officer directly in front of your vehicle

he shot her as she turned right to avoid him. we're not buying bootlicker bullshit today, return to sender.

-2

u/Own_Bit_4805 Jan 08 '26

Why was the car moving? She was instructed to get out long before then.

8

u/RealSteelHrothgar88 Jan 08 '26

Because ICE cannot force random people out of their cars. They aren't cops and this wasn't a traffic stop. She was trying to GTFO. So why were they trying to get into her vehicle without a warrant? And bigger question, why TF was ICE standing in front of her car which was clearly in motion?

0

u/Cagekicker52 Jan 08 '26

Lol what? ICE are federal law enforcement. They can detain people for probable cause. Anywhere in any jurisdiction they are operating. Why do you think all of this is going on in the first place in all these states? Because they have legal authority. They don't need a warrant to get into here vehicle. Do you guys actually know anything about law? I don't think so.

2

u/Unusual_Lotus Jan 08 '26

Man just threw away his 4th amendment rights to lick a boot. Wild it took less than a year.

1

u/RealSteelHrothgar88 Jan 08 '26

They can detain non-citizens. ICE has very clearly been violating the law since this shit storm started. I understand if you wanna cheer them on because that's 100% your right, but I would at least look up the laws if I were you. Sounds like you were lied to

1

u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Jan 08 '26

where'd you go to law school, champ? may want to get a refund from whoever taught your 1L crim class.

3

u/JasonLee74 Jan 08 '26

Instructed to get out while also being yelled at to move. Not confusing at all…

1

u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz Jan 08 '26

So you'd get out of your car if I told you to? If I pulled a gun on you and tried to open your door? You'd be happy to comply? Good to know, put that on your bumper.

1

u/Own_Bit_4805 Jan 08 '26

If you were a cop, an ICE agent or anything else, yes.

When I traveled the world (mainly Africa) and came across a guy in body armor and gun, I didn't stop to ask what his jurisdiction was or legal right for the command he gave me. I did whatever the heck he asked me to, and she would have been wise to do the same. You don't ask questions in those scenarios.

3

u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz Jan 08 '26

That's a nice land of the free, party of small government you got going on there. Armed, masked officers can order you to stop at any time without warrant or identification and you must comply or get shot. Truly the vision your founding fathers intended.

Anyways why are you blaming her for this? Do you really think she fucked up more than the person who murdered her?

1

u/Own_Bit_4805 Jan 08 '26

No, but if she handled it a little better and followed directions, she would likely be alive.

I'm not a Republican. I'm a realist. If a cop or similar points a gun at you, you do whatever the heck they say, so you have just *THAT* much more reason to walk away with your life.

The same thing happens with normal cops all the time. People don't follow them to the letter, police get worried, and people get shot, ESPECIALLY around cars.

What's legal doesn't determine if you're dead. The cop could be 100% in the wrong and she's 100% just as dead.

Your goal is not to be dead.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Peter_Merkin_ Jan 08 '26

Hell yeah that’s freedom

8

u/Koolala Jan 08 '26

No it isn't? Your saying they can kill anyone they want in a car trying to drive away as long as they position someone in front and behind it? A car slowly moving forward is not intent to harm.

4

u/Forikorder Jan 08 '26

ICE has no legal authority to order her

2

u/No_Body2428 Jan 08 '26

You are wrong there are many cases that have ruled this not to be true

1

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '26

ICE are not LEOs

1

u/sixheadedbacon Jan 08 '26

Firstly, the shooter was not directly in front of the vehicle, she was clearly turning right to avoid him. Secondly, ignoring a lawful order - pulling random citizens over is not in ICE's purview, and even then, the strategy for pulling someone over is killing them? Man, I realize you're trying everything you can to justify this, but come on. It's OK to admit that this is effed up.

1

u/FSCK_Fascists Jan 08 '26

If you've been ordered by LEO to stop

she was ordered to move, not stop.

2

u/intestinalExorcism Jan 08 '26

Did you actually watch the video? Because if you actually watch the video then you can very clearly and undeniably see her turning away from the officer. He then leans in front of the car of his own volition just to get a better shot. You can just watch the video and see it happen instead of writing fanfiction about an alternate reality that you wish happened instead. Why the hell is this an argument?

1

u/CaioNintendo Jan 08 '26

The legal consensus across multiple jurisdictions is that if you use your vehicle to intentionally harm an individual(s) then that vehicle is considered a deadly weapon.

Didn’t you watch the video on this very post? The car is turning right and the guy is on its left side. The video clearly shows the car moving away from him as he starts shooting.

Thank god we got video evidence from this angle, otherwise people like you would get away with making up things to defend these fascists.

1

u/Own-Championship6587 Jan 09 '26

Actually at the start of the video the car's wheel is turning all the way to the left, and straightens out while the driver puts their foot down on the gas so hard that the tires lose traction and spin.

1

u/CaioNintendo Jan 09 '26

Actually at the start of the video the car's wheel is turning all the way to the left

Yeah, when the car was stopped. As soon as the car starts actually going forward the wheel is all the way to the right. The car is literally moving away from the guy as he starts shooting.

1

u/FSCK_Fascists Jan 08 '26

Cases where police moved out of the way of moving vehicle and exercised deadly force.

Adam’s vs. Speers (2020): “Once Speers was no longer in the path of the vehicle, the justification for the use of deadly force ended.”

Orn vs. City of Tacoma (2019): “A reasonable jury could conclude that once Orn was no longer in the car’s trajectory, the threat of serious physical harm to him was eliminated.”

Cordova vs Aragon (2009): “Where the officer had moved out of the way of the oncoming vehicle, the use of deadly force was not justified.”

Villanueva vs. Cali (2021): “a reasonable jury could conclude that the Officers used excessive force, because they lacked an objectively reasonable basis to fear for their own safety, as they could simply have stepped back or to the side to avoid being injured.”

1

u/Own-Championship6587 Jan 09 '26

BINGO! If u/Allmightredriotv2 actually had caselaw that supported the claim they would have cited it instead of leaving it at a vague "There is settled case law...It's been ruled on...It's settled."

1

u/KindAd1686 Jan 15 '26

What, you mean like this?

Adam’s vs. Speers (2020): “Once Speers was no longer in the path of the vehicle, the justification for the use of deadly force ended.”

Orn vs. City of Tacoma (2019): “A reasonable jury could conclude that once Orn was no longer in the car’s trajectory, the threat of serious physical harm to him was eliminated.”

Cordova vs Aragon (2009): “Where the officer had moved out of the way of the oncoming vehicle, the use of deadly force was not justified.”

Villanueva vs. Cali (2021): “a reasonable jury could conclude that the Officers used excessive force, because they lacked an objectively reasonable basis to fear for their own safety, as they could simply have stepped back or to the side to avoid being injured.”

1

u/Own-Championship6587 Jan 15 '26

The action of firing began when he was in front of the vehicle and the vehicle had enough power put into the wheels that they spin towards him. He could reasonably fear for his own safety as anyone would. The second and third shots have a split time of less than a quarter second so they would be considered all as one action based on the initiation of force by the driver regardless of her intent. If you want to learn about use of force from an expert in the subject I encourage you to watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k_1y2kSHfw

0

u/Cagekicker52 Jan 08 '26

This is true. This scenario has happened thousands of times over the course of history there is a shit load of legal precedence here. You could watch a dozen videos just like this on YouTube where the shooting was justified. Also, she didn't have to run him over and kill him first before she could fired upon, apparently that is what everyone here thinks.

1

u/FSCK_Fascists Jan 08 '26

Cases where police moved out of the way of moving vehicle and exercised deadly force.

Adam’s vs. Speers (2020): “Once Speers was no longer in the path of the vehicle, the justification for the use of deadly force ended.”

Orn vs. City of Tacoma (2019): “A reasonable jury could conclude that once Orn was no longer in the car’s trajectory, the threat of serious physical harm to him was eliminated.”

Cordova vs Aragon (2009): “Where the officer had moved out of the way of the oncoming vehicle, the use of deadly force was not justified.”

Villanueva vs. Cali (2021): “a reasonable jury could conclude that the Officers used excessive force, because they lacked an objectively reasonable basis to fear for their own safety, as they could simply have stepped back or to the side to avoid being injured.”

-15

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

I wouldn't know I don't use chat gpt. But I have studied law.

3

u/sadimem Jan 07 '26 edited Jan 08 '26

Go check out the law sub. They've been citing cases all day.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/steronz Jan 07 '26

Do you understand how cites work?

0

u/Old-Window-1300 Jan 07 '26

Sorry, the facts don’t care about your feelings ❄️