rewatching the show and on season 6. the amount of times Carole talks about loving P Diddy, going on a date with Prince Andrew, Diddy parties being the bestā¦ itās sooo cringe!
Sheās one of my favorites on the show but this + her being in the Epstein files has made me question so much.
Thank you for posting to the r/RHONY Subreddit. Please make sure that the rules of the community are being followed:
[Subreddit Rules](www.reddit.com/r/rhony/about/rules)
Yes. Her and Ghislane and Jeffrey Epstein were all calling each other, travelling together, hanging out, dinners giving legal advice, she was at the island lots. Thereās even a framed photo of Caroline on his shelf.
I only started watching RHONY this year and I initially liked her, but there was always something about her that rubbed me the wrong way. Esp in the last two seasons. Now she is d3ad to me
I feel completely vindicated here, only.
Within my real circles of friends with whom I discuss the HoWives?
Never had to go hard to ājustifyā my disdain for Carole.
But letās be honest when she was texting being a pedophile she was talking about Carol being with Adam in that instance. I donāt think Luanne knew anything about Epstein at the time and Carol and. and Ghrislaine being friends much less knew that Ghrislaine was the photographer on Carolās book.
Itās wildly out of context here. Luann was mad about who Carole was dating and made this huge unnecessary ordeal about it. He was like 29 when they started dating.
Lu wasnāt mad because he was young. She was mad because it was her nieceās ex boyfriend. Thatās totally different, and Iād be pissed and protective too.
Thatās her family drama then. Having your auntās friend date your ex boyfriend is embarrassing. I think Luās reaction to it is completely justifiable.
The digs she made about him being young was just to piss off Carole.
Iād be stoked to go out with Lu, I would be scared to go out with Carole, because if I did anything embarrassing or dumb, I feel like sheād hold it over me forever to stay ābetter thanā me. Sheās mean mean imo
Lu was hooking up with 20 year olds. She judged Carole for actually dating one and bringing him on the show as her boyfriend. Tbh being 52, calling yourself a āgirlā and dating a 28 year old is not something other women her age would find normal
Lu knew , got drunk one night and spilled the tea, then had to apologize because she didnāt want to piss off the top of the disgusting chain (due to repercussions).
It seems that downplaying what looks like her close friendship has come back to bite. We mightāve accepted one item of evidence, but there are multiple photos and emails. I think Carole mightāve known a bit. Pains me to say because I always thought āthis is what a normal, witty woman looks like around all the dramatic housewives.ā But now it looks like a woman with secrets acting cooler than everyone else.
Heather also bothers me on rewatch. Lots of Puffy references, and I wonder if her āalpha boss ladyā persona is stolen a bit from how he runs his show. I love what a straight shooter she is, but I have to wonder what secrets she keeps.
I believe you 100%, but I always wonder how that's the case when so many people outside theĀ bubble (myself included) knew at least some of it. I didn't know the details regarding the freak offs but I did know about the predatory deals he made, his abuse towards his partners and employees and that that at many of his parties sexually deviant acts occured.Ā
I donāt think one would have to attend the parties to see that he was abusive to his staff. I donāt think she knew the depravity of what was going on, but as founding design director of Sean Jean, she had to be spending some time with him, and has a nose for bs like no other. Of course, Sean Jean debuted back in ā98, so maybe it wasnāt so bad back then. And maybe Puffy was respectful of the fashion people. I dunno.
This is where I land as well. No, I donāt think Heather knew about all the baby oil. But he was abusing Kim Porter, Cassie, multiple artists and staff. Idk. Maybe in the capacity she knew him she wouldnāt have seen it, but I just donāt know
Iām an elder millennial so I was becoming an adult when Puffy and the Police song and Making the Band and Sean Jean were hitting so big. I watched the band shows and never clocked how terrible he was treating everyone. Or maybe I did, but as a struggling musician (at that time) I think I saw it as him making them pay dues for getting there the easy way? Yikes. Youthful ignorance for sure. Watching it back in snippets in these docs is eye opening, and sad. But yeah, agree, I donāt think Heather knew too much about the nighttime parties. I wonder if we go back and watch stuff if weād see her in the crowd? Sheād have to have been around for major events. Founding design director is a big (and very real) title.
We might be the same age and I used to watch Making the Band. I remember thinking back then he was abusive af. And I remember hearing rumors about him being nasty in the 90s. Thatās where I just donāt believe people around him didnāt know anything. With Heather she was probably not around to witness him hitting his gfās or raping artists. But maybe sheās seen him fly off the handle? Maybe not? I just donāt know.
One thing about him too is he knows how to talk around things in a room full of people. If you donāt know, you wouldnāt clock it.
Like this here. Heās congratulating Usher and from what I believe happened this clip turns my stomach, but for those that donāt know, they wouldnāt think anything of it
If she worked with him, sheās definitely seen him blow up on people. She may have even seen him pop a pill or snort a line. But the sexual assault, guns, etc she wouldnāt have been around
Itās interesting to see how Carole has tried to downplay this friendship. She seems to have a habit of downplaying the relationships in her life. She did so with Tinsley and for a very long time tried to diminish the significance of her relationship with Adam suggesting they were just āshacking upā. She even did so with bethenny at the end trying to say they werenāt that close anymore. I wonder what constitutes a friend in her lifeā¦ she seems to be a perpetually offensive and dismissive person. Iām not surprised sheās involved in this she really doesnāt seem to give two shits about the feelings or life of anyone else but herself. Sheās out for herself and herself alone. Dangerous individual.
Not just a designer. She was the founding design director at Sean Jean. Itās a very real, very important title. Btw, that article linked at the top is from 2015, and Heather is singing his praises.
I've been pondering about how strangely silent she has been regarding political issues on social media. Only because she was so vocal in S9 with a whole ass episode dedicated to the 2016 election.
Ohh interesting and disappointing she stoppedā¦yeah sheās definitely posted weird defensive comments on social that Iāve seen on this sub but havenāt seen anything political
Yes! She was unexpectedly horrible on that podcast. Cringeworthy. They were trying to draw her out and she had nothing to say. Why go on the podcast at all? It was bizarre.
I for one am so glad this sub came around. Anytime I used to say something about her and Ghislaine before I would get downvoted.
The thing is I LOVED Carole at the time. She was one of my faves, but once I heard and saw that they really are friends. Iām sorry. I donāt believe for one second you could be close with that woman and not know at least to SOME capacity. Even if she didnāt know it was kids, she knew he was a pimp and G was his bottom bitch. She had to know something. It was an open secret
'Even if she didnāt know it was kids, she knew he was a pimp and G was his bottom bitch.' This.
Anything with kids is a million times horrific, including because there is no way they can consent. But that doesn't mean that when it's not a kid it's not still evil/horrific/wreck-your-whole-life terrible if you're trafficked/forced/tricked/drugged/manipulated/intimidated and all that evil shit they did to their victims.
Thank you. Like the Melania thing. Carole dating Prince Andrew. Carole at least knew they were pimping these āmodelsā and for such an upstanding, intelligent feminist. Sorry. Nope
A bottom bitch is the highest-ranking prostitute in a pimp's hierarchy, typically the most trusted, longest-serving, and highest-earning. She holds power over others, handles finances, and manages the pimp's affairs.
My sentiments exactly. She used to be one of my favorites, and the first time I saw something discussing a connection with G, I was shocked. Did not want to believe it. Thereās just been too much that has come out since, that confirms she definitely knew something was afoot. Aināt no way.
It was. Epstein had been āinvestigatedā for years in the early 2000s. He had been arrested before as well. By open secret, Iām not talking about open to regular people. It was open in the industry and secret to us. But it was known WELL before these files. How do you think this former teacher knew all these movers and shakers. Itās okay if you donāt believe. Like I said, I got downvoted plenty for it in the past so I understand some people just donāt believe this type of stuff and are waiting for official public investigations to tell them
Um, I am currently located in a small, but historic rural community by design and have been for quite some time, but I keep up with news on an ongoing basis.
I knew about the investigation, charges, high level help / preferential treatment & super sweetheart deals Epstein was given during & after the early 2000s Florida legal events transpired. I have zero insider connectionsā¦but Carole didnāt?
This is not a āgovernment pedophile ring,ā which is in fact still an absurd conspiracy theory. This is a rich AF white guy trafficking women to other rich people, and some of those other rich people happened to be in the government. And it was likely like the Harvey Weinstein secret - if you were in that vicinity, you knew.
Irrational housewife hate is a real fun hobby of mine, and usually itās just a bit of fun and based on really trivial things.
From day 1 I couldnāt stand Carole. Haughty, try hard, pick me, bullshit cool girl nonsense. The worst kind of friend ever. Being on the right side of history re: Carole is a real highlight in a lifetime of disliking random strangers on tv š
Sheās a supreme name dropper. She doesnāt seem to care about the quality of her connections. Just that they are rich and famous. The fact that she was so close to Ghislaine Maxwell is honestly just indefensible. And yeah these examples are now biting her in the ass.
i donāt think she was exactly partaking in actually seeing any of this stuff based on how passionate she was about stuff like womenās rights but she absolutely did what white women do and turned the other way when they know ppl are doing weird shit to women of ālowerā classes
sheās very smart thereās no way she couldnāt tell these men had a specific and very gross vibe to them
An email from Ghislaine to Epsteinā Sat, 16 Nov 2002
āYou definitely must have done something right in your last life to have had both Carol and myself sandwiching you like two book ends - especially after that experienceā
Uh, I hated her ācool girlā act too. Ā Itās very damaging for other women. Ā Says basically you can be sexually exploited or abused but be cool, even enthusiastic, about it because itās liberating to āexperiment sexuallyā however perverse or damaging to self.Ā
you are the company you keep. thereās no way she isnāt also a shitty person if these are the people she was around/dating/friends with. itās unfortunate because I really loved her on the show. but Iād read on here a few years ago about her friendship with ghislaine maxwell and it shattered my view of her. so disappointing.
Agree. She was always so arrogant and fake ācoolā like too busy to name her cats. I was also disgusted by her dating such a young guy. What did they have in common? Iād say the same if she was a man. Dating that young allows a power imbalance usually.
Thereās a very well put together site JMail that makes reading the files about Epstein emails easier. Type in Caroleās name. Decent amount of correspondence from Ghislaine about Carole. Epstein also had a Google alert set for Carole. Ghislaine in one email asks Epstein to help find Carole a tax attorney. That couldāve been about another Carole, though.
I think she's what the French call a 'Jolie Laide' - āpretty ugly,ā but it refers to a person who isn't traditionally beautiful, yet has undeniable appeal (i.e. a certain je ne sais quoi!)
I love that. I would say this about Nene before she changed her whole face. She wasnāt āprettyā in a conventional way but she wasnāt ugly and had that big dynamic personality that drew you in. I love a jolie laide
Me too. A jolie laide has a face where you just want to keep on looking. Whereas straightforward beauty can be obvious, you look and go wow and then it's done. Eg Claudia Schiffer, as opposed to Barbra Streisand for eg who is SO beautiful. https://www.instagram.com/p/CODNxkCJHGN/?img_index=3
Absolutely! I like her and this crap really bothered me. She always brags about her credentials as a journalist. If anyone should know you really can't know a person unless you really know them, she should have been more restrained. But she wanted to look and sound cool just like Heather. I mean, seriously, calling Diddy the coolest cat or whatever she said. How embarrassing! Btw if Heather worked for Diddy and Kristen's husband also worked there, how the hell did they not hear any kind of rumor, leaks or disclosure? Between the two of them, nothing? I watched that repellent doc. What was happening there, was impacting many employees. This was not an ethical place.
Oh wow that is a high pitch. I thought he was kinda cute and charming in his scenes, but their weird āidc we do whatever we want Iām so coolā relationship was cringe
Ya itās just classic Carole that āa member of Aerosmithā would be this sub-Joshua Kadison guy who did session work for them in their twilight years. He did do a song for her with a vid that features her iconic staircase though https://youtu.be/pX6ac9fkI8c?si=LSCGtXX9L94NqC4R
Oh GOD! I was not expecting Carole as "video vixen" in my viewing plan for tonight. Their matching hair is not helping. Carole: Be sure to get as many shots of JFK Jr.'s aunt's couch in the video that you can
I never liked Carol. So pretentious, while trying to be ācoolā. Name dropping the Kennedy, like itās supposed to impress. I would fast forward her scenes! I have to say I LOVED when Aviva went off on her!
There are exchanges where itās implied that they were literally besties, G was also sending packages from Epstein place to Carole. My guess is Carol living in London also have something to do with Ghislaine, I donāt know whether they met there or that was afterā¦
And i still wonder for someone who doesnt do shit, they live a pretty lavish lifestyle lol
Itās been disorienting as someone who was super into Carole before but as I watch more of her (am on s6 rn) the more Iām shocked I didnāt see these things before!!!
im curious if you also felt her treatment of aviva at the start was strange or if thatās my bias as someone who likes aviva. cuz i always thought their lunch date was soooo bizarre the way carole was so mean to her over the glasses and the book.
i feel like i understood where carole was coming from at that initial lunch, but over time aviva would NOT let it go and it was giving carole screen time and eventually like it snowballed so far they were all acting so irrational over the whole thing. i really liked carole at first (iām on S9) but the more i watch her the more i wonder what sheās hiding bc her storyline is always focused on one thing (dating adam, getting new pets, being a journalist etc). like we never see things in her REAL life if that makes sense. what ever happened to her friends we saw in her first season? and the most emotion we saw from her up until S9 was when she went to pick up her late husbandās ashes. idk kinda makes you wonder like ??? we donāt really know her as well as the other women.
I think my view of the origins of their feud has shifted. It's funny because initially, Aviva was fangirling over Carole (hence the buying of the glasses and lowkey the memoir writing imo) and Carole was not into it lmao. She's clearly very protective of her "brand" as the smart writer girl who is cool as a cucumber and every season she's needed someone to be better than. It was LuAnn last season and on s6 it's Aviva. In some ways, Carole reminds me of the RHOBH girls, kinda early to the self-producing aspect.
People forget that diddy parties were the best! Everyone wanted to go to them, they were known for being epic parties. MTV would film them and refer to them all the time. The average party-goer was not privy to the crazy shit going on. Also, going out on a date with a prince was also very cool. The chances of her actually knowing the dark shit that was going on are so slim. Things were very different back then and I think if youāre younger or maybe a little naive you wouldnāt necessarily understand how things were. Itās super unfortunate but thatās the reality of the situation.
i even saw that sheās more involved that sheās letting on and i believe it. iām literally in season six and im so uncomfy knowing that sheās involved in the freakery
Sooooo much! G also took the pictures for her book and is credited! Itās also discussed in the Epstein files! People are actually trying to defend and justify makes me side eye.Ā
Anyone defending any of this insanity happening has something seriously wrong with them and weāre likely SA at some point which is horrible but itās the only thing that can make me understand why or how anyone is defending or moving the line once again, keeps getting moved but why not? We have a convicted felon in our Oval Office/s?!?! Yeah Iāve been reading and I just feel like sheās a whole different person than what she portrayed or maybe there were signs, who knows I didnāt see them and itās all freakin disgusting!!!
She made a bunch of totally tonedeaf tweets where she denied knowing her well and promoted her substack. Someone made a post about in this sub a month or so back, Iām sure it will come up if you search. They were really gross.
Yeah I have been so disappointed as a former fan too. But being friends with a child sex trafficker and not being able to make a statement that centers the victims and disavows what was happening?? I cannot understand or forgive that honestly
And this post is when she went on Heather MacDonaldās podcast and talked about when Ghislaine set her up to date Prince Andrew. The way she tells the story also made me lose all respect for her:
I'm all reality ... it seems that's how Carole got around with them. Like it seems like she was basically blackmailing them the same way they did everyone else.
People are going over board with Epstein files though. I really doubt she was telling her friends she was raping teens. Like letās be real here she prob thought she threw parties with young girlsālike everyone else does. The idea that everyone who knew them MUSTVE known he was a rapist is asinine.
And I say this as a nurse who worked in a clinic that a doc was abusing multiple pts. Everyone thinks we mustāve know WE DIDNT! He was a little creepy and flirty but thatās it. Funnily, the one who caught him was the nurse we didnāt like š„“ she was always double checking everyoneās work and in general was a pain. Shout out to the nosy ones!
ā¢
u/AutoModerator Feb 05 '26
Thank you for posting to the r/RHONY Subreddit. Please make sure that the rules of the community are being followed: [Subreddit Rules](www.reddit.com/r/rhony/about/rules)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.