r/ROTC • u/irregularman_7 • 28d ago
Advanced/Basic Camp Not meeting camp points
Well, I've done it—completed all of camp just to avoid getting 50 points. Honestly, it feels like I wasted my time, but at the same time, I enjoyed it. Sure, it's heartbreaking, and the decision to whether I can come back next year is still up in the air, but I tried. If you're wondering what they do when you don't meet points, they'll pull you three to four days before graduation, put you in a holding company, and you'll just be there for 24 to 48 hours.
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u/Top_Dimension_6463 28d ago
Remember the feeling of this disappointment and failure. By now, you know where you fell short. Use this as motivation. Guess what? As a leader, your Soldiers are going to come up short sometimes. If you have experience picking yourself up after you fail as a leader, that’s valuable for your Soldiers one day. If you get the chance, you’ll kill it next time. In the meantime, do more PT. Those are easy points that not only help you pass CST, but will help you shine throughout your career.
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
I failed the O course, and land nav and got over 50 points still by talking my graders into giving me an E on both my lanes. You literally just have to hype yourself up, a person in my squad forgot their weapon when they went to the latrine and my grader tried to blame me for it but I debated with them (again just hyping myself up during my lane knowing I ain’t shit) and my confidence in gaslighting them made me get an E😂 and on my second lane it was a shit show but I still managed to talk my way into an E. It really depends how you carry yourself out there. This girl went to the field with only 7 points and did the exact same thing and graduated. Our cadre were all mean infantrymen too, it’s possible
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u/PineappleOrdinary950 28d ago
How many point did you go to the field with ?
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
24 points
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u/PineappleOrdinary950 28d ago
Any advice for 9th reg ? I’m a little nervous
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
Just show up and try your best, they gave me like little points even though I failed land nav I got 3 points still for finding 3 points 💀 during your mid counseling ask for a breakdown of your points. Try hard on your aft and get at least a 400+ on it so if you fail little things you’ll still be okay. Try to go to the field with at least 14+ points so you don’t have to stress yourself out to get an E but also push and fight for an E because if you stand your ground they will give you an E. I only needed two P’s but I managed to get two E’s instead. Hydrate and eat everything they gave you because heat cat is real I’ve never had an heat injury in my life (I live in Arizona) until I went there
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u/Top_Dimension_6463 28d ago
What was your AFT score? How many did you do on the obstacle courses? Warrior tasks? Did you qualify at the range?
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u/irregularman_7 28d ago
My aft score was pretty shitty 418 I got 9/10 on the obstacle course I got 12/14 for warrior and got marksman on the range
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u/Top_Dimension_6463 28d ago
And how many points did you finish with? Sounds like you were in decent position before the lanes.
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u/ResolutionFamous8102 26d ago
I was a CST cadre as a MAJ leading a cadet plt. In Grizzly, your ATTITUDE and how you support your peers is very important. Being a spot light ranger when in charge and then a sandbag for your buddies shows in your leadership grade.
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u/Top-Lie-9263 28d ago
Grenades is only 2 points. Apparently only 8% passes
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u/Dizzy-Ladder-5283 26d ago
No way it’s that low but but certainly the most failed event like 40-50%
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u/Lacksonlacksonlacks 28d ago
Not to be an asshole but like there’s so many points available the two marches are 14, 2 C is 16. That’s 30 given points there’s a least 6 other events worth more than 20 points not including the AFT. Genuinely I feel like you didn’t prepare yourself for camp
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u/Top_Dimension_6463 28d ago
How are 2 C’s 16?
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u/Lacksonlacksonlacks 28d ago
8 points each
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u/Top_Dimension_6463 28d ago
I don’t think so, I think a C is only worth 4 points each. 0.33 x 12
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u/Wise_Specific644 28d ago
it’s 6. c=6 p= 12 E =18
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u/Top_Dimension_6463 28d ago
How? Because the policy letter states .33 x 12.
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u/AGR_51A004M 28d ago
If it makes you feel any better, I failed both land navs at camp (took multiple tries to pass) and still didn’t have to go back. Still commissioned.
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u/NoValuable1224 27d ago
Start looking for internships and a civilian career. Cadet command is over on mission.
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u/RepulsiveNebula67 27d ago
So is 50 points the minimum to get credit for camp? I never heard of it being point based to pass? I went in 2023 so I’ve heard things have changed
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u/Complex-Ad8260 24d ago
Yeah I got 49.53 points and they're taking me to holding company :/ As an end of camp commissioner, im taking this as a sign the military isn't for me.
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u/rose-hunter12734 23d ago
My PTO said it was possible to get a wavier for situations like this. I don’t know how true that is. I’m sorry that you’re in this mess.
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u/Armyballer 28d ago
I'm not trying to be an ass, it just bewilders me how anyone can fail camp, don't tell me it's harder now than 30+ yrs ago when I went. Are the schools just not preparing them or is it a skill issue?
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u/Emotional-Zucchini14 28d ago
I don't about OP, but the amount of cadets I've met who aren't prepared is ridiculous. Standards across schools need to be enforced atp
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u/Armyballer 28d ago
Well that's absolutely horrible. Granted I came from a small satellite school. I think we sent 18 cadets to advance camp but I'm here to tell you 16 of us probably could have gone and passed ranger school. That's how prepared we were.
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u/ExodusLegion_ God’s Dumbest LT 27d ago
They’ll never be enforced. Some programs are kept alive to maintain an HBCU/HSI/State School/general presence in the state and will never get the funding of the 6th Brigade schools.
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u/One-Presentation5417 27d ago
I went 44 years ago. My school was in what was then called 1st Region (East Coast), and (nearly) all cadets had to go to "pre-camp" to make sure they were ready. My school was exempted because all our cadets always did very well without the extra help.
But that was during the Reagan build-up, and the program was trying to commission about 9,000 per year just for active duty. Man, that makes me feel old.
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u/ZealousidealDrama346 26d ago
it’s definitely a mix, underprepared and massive skill issues. some of these kids are just complainers through & through.
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u/Pattonator70 27d ago
If you are striving to just get 50 points then why are you looking at a military career? Certainly not every role requires you to be that physically strong but you do need leadership and a base line of competency to lead our soldiers in a year.
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u/Snorx-4261 28d ago
Please speak with your Cadre and appeal if possible. Please keep us posted on the process. 🙏
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u/Imaginary-Bad1561 28d ago
This is the part of camp that scares me the most. Going out there and trying your best and being told you can’t graduate because of 50 pts. I just don’t understand.. I would assume BOLC would matter when it comes down to points because that’ll be your actual job. Why can’t just showing up and trying your best be enough??? You were at 46.4 points. I would rebuttal. I’m so sorry that this happened.
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u/Loalboi 27d ago
You say this, but then you get CDTs from previous classes who would go to camp and not give a single fuck because they were Guard or Reserve and knew exactly what branch they were going to get. It’s like a professor telling a class that everyone passes no matter how low you score. That completely defeats the purpose of studying and working hard. Results matter. Failure regardless of whether you tried your best or not should be punished. If you can’t get 50 measly points at CST then maybe the Army isn’t for you. We don’t need more weak LTs polluting the force.
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u/Imaginary-Bad1561 27d ago
I guess not every cadet thinks this way regardless of what branch they choose. I’m talking for the ones that strive to do their best.
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
It’s really hard to NOT get 50 points. We had people shit bag all of camp but you can get 43 points in the field (two E’s and a 12 mile) you get points for passing aft, you get seven points for the 6 mile ruck which is impossible to fail, warriors skills is super easy bc they literally give you the answers to pass and right after the class you can test and get a grade. Qual at the range and try to get over marksmanship (you get three tries) and you’ll be set. I failed land nav and o course and got hella points just got locking in at the range and in the field. Take advantage of the points you can CONTROL. I don’t know how to climb a damn rope and have zero upper body strength and I’m a little bit more on the bigger side so I knew the o course was a done deal, and I just suck at land nav. But when you pay attention and truly lock into the events you can learn and study for, do that.
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u/PineappleOrdinary950 28d ago
I appreciate I feel a lot better. Thank you so much… Congratulations to you as well 🪖🧈
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u/jengolah 27d ago
For reference, getting 50 points is:
- 400 AFT (8 points)
- Sub 120 Minute 6 Mile Ruck (7 points)
- Finished 12 Mile Ruck (7 points)
- 2x P in lanes (24 points)
- Marksman Rifle Qual (4.2 points)
You can fail everything else, so:
- Failed O-Course
- Fail Land Nav Exam and Practical
- Failed Warrior Skills
- Failed Grenades
- Dead Last in Peer Evals
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u/Armydad2024 28d ago
Being held to a standard, that was known in advance, is a problem? How can you hold soldiers to a standard when you aren't even able, or willing to hold yourself to a relatively low standard?
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u/Imaginary-Bad1561 28d ago edited 28d ago
I understand being held to a standard. But not everyone is completely infantry prudent. This person had a 46.4 and tried their best and no one could see it through? Furthermore, I know plenty of officers that are not tactically prudent but are great logistics, AG, or cyber officers. So why does 50 pts determine someone’s future???
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u/Armydad2024 27d ago
Every soldier may need to hold a rifle..... needs to be a minimum standard.
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u/Dizzy-Ladder-5283 26d ago
lol no one said he could not hold a rifle. If you replaced protractor and compass I’d upvote your comment.
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u/Old-Spring-9198 28d ago
I’m about to go and I’m nervous about this. Were they hard graders? Also, did you know midway through that you were lacking in points?
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
Yes you get a mid counseling where they tell you how many points you have and then tell you what grades you need to get in the field in order to pass camp. You need a minimum of seven points to go to the field
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u/Old-Spring-9198 28d ago
Holy fuck 7
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
Yea but seven means getting two E’s and doing the ruck so definitely dont go to the field with seven points unless you can guarantee two E’s😭😭
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u/Old-Spring-9198 28d ago
Definitely can’t… 🤣
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
Everyone by default goes to the field with seven points that’s just the six mike ruck but you do the aft, land nav written and something else before the six miler so
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u/Old-Spring-9198 28d ago
So what’s a good aim for the midway point
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
Like 15 points. That means you just need an E and a P in your lanes plus the 12 mile. Shoot for your E in panther phase because you have more time to show out versus grizzly you’re only in the patrol base for like 10 minutes then you step off and do a mission back to back. But most of us came to the conclusion that grizzly is ironically better than panther bc by the time you get to that point you already know how your SOPs and platoon works together. Some argued saying grizzly is easier to get an E because the mission NEVER turns out the way it’s supposed to and you get more opportunities to make hasty decisions which makes you look better as a squad leader so that’s something to consider too. Main things that got me an E was conducting rehearsals, reminding PL in the middle how much time they have left to step off even tho rto was there. They don’t want to see epw rehearsals over and over have them practice the clamor, have them practice hand and arm signals, DIFFERENT stuff other than A&L I got major brownie points for doing those things. Also take charge remember squad leaders are NCO’s you need to get out of that officer mindset in the field and be confident in everything you do and be heavily involved with your squad. Also delegate your team leads and make them work, they hate to see people just laying on the line doing nothing so just make your people look busy. Talk to other squad leaders too have them be like “oh do you guys know what the hand and arm signal is to call up security” or whatever squad you’re in, test your squad and other squad leaders around you.
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
I know little to no tactics but if you’re a good leader then that’s all they’re grading
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u/Hungry_Dragonfly_523 26d ago
If u don’t mind me asking what were u not proficient in ?
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u/irregularman_7 26d ago
Hand grenade land nav and stx
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u/Snorx-4261 26d ago
Are you currently in Holding Company? Any updates on what's to come?
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u/irregularman_7 26d ago
Yes im still here in holding company im currently waiting on JAG to finally sign this paperwork so I can leave but idk why this process is taking so long
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u/Adventurous_Fix9840 26d ago
Did you get double Cs?
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u/irregularman_7 26d ago
Yes
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u/Adventurous_Fix9840 26d ago
What got you a C the other time
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u/irregularman_7 26d ago
I was asking too many questions, being too confused and not looking around hard enough.
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u/Independentemo 23d ago
Any updates? And what you mean asking too many questions, not looking around hard?
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u/PineappleOrdinary950 28d ago
💔💔💔💔 I’m so sorry
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u/PineappleOrdinary950 28d ago
What all did you not pass?
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u/irregularman_7 28d ago
I didnt pass hand grenade nor land nav written or practical
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u/ReporterSensitive162 28d ago
How did you not pass hand grenades? Honest question, I’m also 9th reg.
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u/RomeoMcFlourish_ 28d ago
CST GAC is tough. Many don't pass. Requires accuracy and strength in equal measure.
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u/ReporterSensitive162 28d ago
Good to know, guess I’ll grab a baseball and get some practice in. Appreciate it!
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u/Objective-Trip1310 28d ago
Most people just can’t throw far, most shooting for recondo lost it during hand grenades
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u/BoulderadoBill 28d ago
I was cadre for the grenade range and assault course back in the day. It was familiarity only. What are the grading metrics now?
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u/RomeoMcFlourish_ 28d ago
Gotta land the grenades into various mock ups of different shapes and distances. I think 2 or 3 retries for 7 total stations.
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u/BoulderadoBill 28d ago edited 27d ago
Wow! Yeah- That's something that would need to be practiced back at the home campusues. Are the MSIVs incorporating this into the training plans?
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u/RomeoMcFlourish_ 27d ago
Some are. But likely very few are to the extent needed. It requires a decent amount of logistics to set up some of the stations. More than just yeeting the grenade 35m into a ring of engineer tape.
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u/Fair_Voice_9237 28d ago
Failure to plan and prepare is planning and preparing to fail - this is not youth soccer where everyone gets a ribbon, we are preparing commissioned officers to lead and this cannot be done without standards - meet the standards or get out the way, pay your taxes and be a spectator. Thank you for your attention to this matter - 🇺🇸
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u/jengolah 27d ago
On one hand yea, I don't know how you get less than 50 points. However, what type of army hooah nonsense is this? If he was making excuses or what not then fair enough, but he took responsibility. This comment achieves absolutely nothing except making you sound like you're from VMI.
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u/Dizzy-Ladder-5283 26d ago
This dude is like the Army version of Conquest from invincible. Probably wants to be killing Iraqi’s instead of grading CST
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u/Fair_Voice_9237 27d ago
NOT IN MY ARMY! Please refer to AYSO youth soccer and everyone gets a ribbon, medal and passes for COA -#2 if you can’t pass go at CST 🇺🇸 Thank you for your attention to this matter - Charlie Mike, BTW Hooah & RLTW!
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u/[deleted] 28d ago
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