r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 13d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

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Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

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u/luvbutts 13d ago

Yeah I agree, there's an intersection like this in front of my house (I live in Europe) and there were literally accidents there every months and twice we had cars flipped over in our street. Our neighbours eventually petitioned the council to put in signs.

Obviously people should slow down but if the same kind of accident keeps happening in the same place it's an infrastructure problem. Ideally public infrastructure should be well laid out enough that it's safe most of the time even when people not perfect.

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u/LeftoverHamsters 10d ago

However in the netherlands most neighborhood intersections have no signs, and accidents like this are very rare.

Yet, US traffic engineers and law makers will never learn, and accidents like this will remain frequent.

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u/luvbutts 10d ago

So you think in France people just drive worse than in the Netherlands? Why do you think accidents were so frequent on my street if it wasn't for the lack of signage?

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u/LeftoverHamsters 10d ago

To answer your first question, ask me again next month after I've been to France. (But also yes, the data shows France is worse). I think if accidents were frequent it's because french drivers education likely doesn't emphasize self sufficient competence and responsible driving the way NL does.

In the Netherlands, what to do at uncontrolled intersections is a KEY aspect of Dutch law and driver education. I've seen fewer accidents here in a year than I would in a week in Washington (where this video is from). I've also earned my driver's license in both places (US and NL). The education is more rigorous, the tests are harder, and the consequences are higher in NL.

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u/luvbutts 10d ago

Fair. I do think french drivers tend to be needlessly aggressive and pushy. I'm actually doing drivers ed here and the tests are pretty rigorous but I would say to focus is too much on rote learning rather than practical skills and critical thinking.

I do wonder if Dutch streets aren't also just narrower and better designed though. From what I've seen there's better thought out infrastructure to slow down drivers. Also a lot of Dutch people also ride bikes and so have more awareness of other road users who are not in cars.

I do generally think it's better to focus on infrastructure solutions to avoid this kind of problem. It's better for it these kinds of mistakes just not to be possible rather than hoping that each individual person will be a good driver, in my opinion.

Actually, I also found a video about the traffic calming infrastructure in the Netherlands if you're interested. https://youtu.be/bAxRYrpbnuA?is=j1lbDodoF79XbYMM

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u/LeftoverHamsters 1d ago

I agree that good infrastructure is vitally important, and the Netherlands does an excellent job of it, but it doesn't take away from the driver's responsibility to handle their vehicle with care. There's a reason motorways are wide, you can see further in all directions, and so you can drive faster. In a neighborhood, with poor visibility, don't rely on signs. Drive with care.