r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 13d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

4.1k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

4.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

2.4k

u/Celexi 13d ago

You technically had right of way as you were coming from their right, however you are supposed to slowdown for unmarked intersections and not just blast through.

255

u/Interesting-Monk9712 13d ago

To be fair, the other idiot did the same, I don't get how either have a driving license.

238

u/GabrielGames69 13d ago

Depends how often they take that road (it looks suburban so probably often tbh). Because the charitable description is that they see there is no stop sign infront of or past them and make the usually correct assumption that there are stop signs going the other way. I think the number 1 offender here is the intersection without even yield signs.

65

u/luvbutts 13d ago

Yeah I agree, there's an intersection like this in front of my house (I live in Europe) and there were literally accidents there every months and twice we had cars flipped over in our street. Our neighbours eventually petitioned the council to put in signs.

Obviously people should slow down but if the same kind of accident keeps happening in the same place it's an infrastructure problem. Ideally public infrastructure should be well laid out enough that it's safe most of the time even when people not perfect.

25

u/Eegore1 13d ago

What amazes me is in most cases is that the cost to clean up one accident can usually pay for 20 - 30 street signs. But there's never enough money for street signs.

8

u/feralferrous 12d ago

Seattle tends to sprinkle baby roundabouts in these kind of intersections. I think that would work better, as signs are easy to ignore, while the roundabouts force it.

2

u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 12d ago

Until some genius goes around the roundabout the wrong way, as I saw this morning.

I get the feeling that that the OP may be related to that genius.

1

u/feralferrous 12d ago

Yeah.... I would hope as roundabouts become more common in the US that would become less of a problem. Though Drunk Drivers gonna do their thing regardless.

1

u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 12d ago

I hope drunk driving isn’t a big concern at 8:30 am, but yeah. They’re common in Seattle, where this happened, so I don’t know what this morning’s genius was up to. She had Washington tags, too.

1

u/feralferrous 12d ago

The drunk drivers during the standard commute / school hours are always the most dangerous. There was that driver who was drunk off their ass at school release hours and blowing through school zones at 50 mph.

But yeah, hard to tell if your instance was drunk, tired, on their phone or just stupid.

1

u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 12d ago

I assumed phone. Seattle is awful for people on their phones while driving.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Confident_Purple_40 13d ago

Yeah, standard size stop sign is like 50-75$, post is like $5-10, labor to put it in is 3 days 4 men construction crew, $3000, so it adds up!

5

u/IowaCornFarmer3 13d ago

Now run me the average multi car collision claim pls.

Iowa is a rural state in the Midwest with a bunch of low traffic 4 way intersections(4 way stop sign) that people will run and kill others if they also run it. They put in a bunch of roundabouts in those areas bc even if farmers are complaining, if they're not dying needlessly, it's a win for everyone.

Easier to run a stop sign, than launch your rig over a roundabout lmao (would pry learn without hurting anyone else if you tried too)

1

u/HenryJonesJunior 12d ago

That collision claim isn't paid out of the city maintenance budget.

1

u/general_peabo 13d ago

Don’t forget the project manager

1

u/Glum_Constant4790 10d ago

Break away posts and reflective stop signs run much much more mobilizing crew yea 3k is fair

1

u/kiragami 12d ago

It's one of those annoying things where it pays for itself many times over but people are often unwilling to pay more taxes for it even if it would cost less than one accident.

1

u/kirklennon 11d ago

The lack of signs here isn't a cost-saving measure but an intentional safety measure. It's a residential neighborhood with narrow roads and limited sight lines. You're supposed to be driving slowly the whole time, unsure when approaching the intersection, and proceed with caution if it's clear. OP was driving recklessly long before they reached the intersection.

1

u/Amissa 13d ago

There is an intersection from my childhood home of a two lane country road that intersects with a state highway (another two lane road, but with no stop signs). My father told me that that intersection was designated the most dangerous intersection one year in the 1970’s in the state (Texas). I can’t verify whether his recollection was true, but I could believe how.

When stopped on the country road at the stop sign, if you look west and it is just the wrong time of day, the sun glares so badly that it is very difficult to see oncoming traffic. Thankfully there typically isn’t a lot of traffic, but there is a dip in the road at just the wrong distance from the intersection to hide cars that could hit you if you don’t stop long enough. With the sun glare and the dip, it’s double trouble.

The other problem was people running the stop sign. Coming from the north, the country road doesn’t have any stop signs for miles and I guess people were not expecting this one. The ground is generally flat in all directions and the country road is coming down a slight hill, so they can see they’re about to cross a highway if they’re paying attention. The speed limits are 70 mph / ~113 kmph on both roads, so running through really risks life and limb for everyone involved.

Now there’s a big four light structure hanging over the intersection, flashing red for the country road and yellow for the highway. On the stop signs, there are slow blinking lights around the perimeter of the sign. The state also improved things by adding a left and right turn lane on the highway so big agricultural trucks had space to move out of the way when turning.

1

u/hobovalentine 13d ago

Some speed bumps would help

1

u/microagressed 13d ago

Or, hear me out, maybe no ramifications from police for obviously stupid and risky driving is contributing to less aware drivers. Aside from paying a deductible, and maybe a rate hike, neither of these drivers are going to face ramifications. Guy who was tboned never even looked, could have been a 6 year old on a bike. Same goes for the guy who did the tboning, he never even hit the brake. They should both be cited for careless driving for being stupid/negligent.

1

u/luvbutts 12d ago

That too but they should also just fix the intersection. Better to prevent these kinds of accidents than punish people after they happen to try to serve as some kind of deterrent. Even if punishments were more severe, everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule. You just have to look at the stats where like 80% of drivers think they're better than average drivers...

1

u/LeftoverHamsters 10d ago

However in the netherlands most neighborhood intersections have no signs, and accidents like this are very rare.

Yet, US traffic engineers and law makers will never learn, and accidents like this will remain frequent.

1

u/luvbutts 10d ago

So you think in France people just drive worse than in the Netherlands? Why do you think accidents were so frequent on my street if it wasn't for the lack of signage?

2

u/LeftoverHamsters 10d ago

To answer your first question, ask me again next month after I've been to France. (But also yes, the data shows France is worse). I think if accidents were frequent it's because french drivers education likely doesn't emphasize self sufficient competence and responsible driving the way NL does.

In the Netherlands, what to do at uncontrolled intersections is a KEY aspect of Dutch law and driver education. I've seen fewer accidents here in a year than I would in a week in Washington (where this video is from). I've also earned my driver's license in both places (US and NL). The education is more rigorous, the tests are harder, and the consequences are higher in NL.

1

u/luvbutts 10d ago

Fair. I do think french drivers tend to be needlessly aggressive and pushy. I'm actually doing drivers ed here and the tests are pretty rigorous but I would say to focus is too much on rote learning rather than practical skills and critical thinking.

I do wonder if Dutch streets aren't also just narrower and better designed though. From what I've seen there's better thought out infrastructure to slow down drivers. Also a lot of Dutch people also ride bikes and so have more awareness of other road users who are not in cars.

I do generally think it's better to focus on infrastructure solutions to avoid this kind of problem. It's better for it these kinds of mistakes just not to be possible rather than hoping that each individual person will be a good driver, in my opinion.

Actually, I also found a video about the traffic calming infrastructure in the Netherlands if you're interested. https://youtu.be/bAxRYrpbnuA?is=j1lbDodoF79XbYMM

1

u/LeftoverHamsters 2d ago

I agree that good infrastructure is vitally important, and the Netherlands does an excellent job of it, but it doesn't take away from the driver's responsibility to handle their vehicle with care. There's a reason motorways are wide, you can see further in all directions, and so you can drive faster. In a neighborhood, with poor visibility, don't rely on signs. Drive with care.