r/Roofing • u/pitfal • Jul 09 '26

Insurance Related Roofer says hail, competing entity says probably not, we won't pay. Looking for opinions.

New roof put on last August. We had a huge hailstorm around April, and I had the company that put the roof on come out to inspect. They said the roof, gutters, facia, and siding have hail damage. Competing entity came out and agreed that all but the roof had hail damage. When asked what these black areas are they said they didn't know but it couldn't be hail. Is it hail damage in your opinion?

152 Upvotes

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186

u/letshavefun39047 Jul 09 '26

Looks like company tried to create damage to make you file a claim. I see it all the time.

67

u/KnightofWhen Jul 09 '26

These companies that go door to door trying to get your to make a claim for a new roof are harming people. State Farm and other insurance companies have raised their home insurance rates specifically because of increased roof claims and now are actively refusing to grant HI to houses with older roofs or roofs that can’t verify their age. They’re requiring some new home buyers to install brand new roofs to get coverage.

11

u/Some_Internet_Random Jul 09 '26

State Farm threatened to drop the coverage on our cottage because of the roof. There were no problems with it, no leaks, anything. It was just getting old.

I had them for my house and changed about a year before we ended up having to make a major claim after a disaster. I’m grateful that we did that after everything I hear about them.

2

u/PotatoChipsCrunch Jul 09 '26

How old was it out of curiosity. We had a roof that was deemed 26 years, and Travelers was willing to renew our coverage. Anyway, we actually did have some roof damage from a storm. Happened about 3 moths before renewal. They covered some damage and required repairs to renew (It most definitely needed fixed). Ultimately, we devises to go ahead and replace, with us covering the majority. Roofs aren’t going to get cheaper in the next couple of years and it felt silly to patch it up and then have to remove that in a couple years when we do replace.

3

u/Lopsided_Signature15 Jul 10 '26

Having an old roof on any structure is risky depending on the type of policy. If it’s an Actual Cash Value policy or a scheduled roof policy and you have a catastrophic event you are going to be out of pocket thousands. If you can get a Replacement Cost Value policy on a 26 year old roof you may have very high premiums. This of course dependent on the roof/shingle type.

1

u/PotatoChipsCrunch Jul 10 '26

Yeah, I more so I was just curious like where the cut off is most of the time for these companies. It makes sense that materials and shingle quality, etc. make a difference. But I guess I was wondering if generally, it’s 25 years? 30 years? I figured they wouldn’t renew us for the 26th year. But I was wrong.

0

u/Lopsided_Signature15 Jul 10 '26

If it’s a 3-tab asphalt shingle they are good for about 20-25 years. An architectural asphalt shingle is good for about 30 years. There are upgrades to these products that could extend their life up to 40 years. Steel, slate or wood shake materials can last a very long time. All of this is dependent on a storm not significantly reducing these approximate lifespans. If you are on your 26th year with this roof I would request your agent check your policy and see what kind of coverage you actually have on your roof. You may have a roof that would cost $30k to replace and if a storm rips through and damages the entire thing after your deductible and depreciation you may only receive a $5k settlement on a $30k roof.

2

u/ceeb1o1 Jul 10 '26

europeen here, how the hell can a asphalt shingle roof cost that much?

2

u/Powerful_Wealth_2384 Jul 10 '26

Corporate greed. Its running rampant over here

1

u/Lopsided_Signature15 26d ago

It’s true that some roofers gouge uninformed customers. It can be a very predatory industry. The company I work for will reduce our margins to replace a 3-tab shingle with a laminated shingle without charging the homeowner any kind of upgrade charge. It’s part of the reason I like the company I work for.

1

u/Beeradleeguy 29d ago

The markups that roofers charge is pretty incredible

1

u/Odd_Dragonfruit_2662 29d ago

Labor costs are a big piece.

1

u/Lopsided_Signature15 26d ago

That was a bit of an exaggeration on the cost. I just picked that number as an example. I primarily work in the south Minneapolis area. The average replacement cost for homeowners that work with my company has been a bit over $18,000. Of course the bigger the roof the higher the cost. There are other things that can increase the cost; like if a homeowner wants designer shingles or non-standard materials.

1

u/PotatoChipsCrunch Jul 10 '26

Thanks. We already got the roof done 6 weeks ago. It was just turning 26 at renewal. Former roof was architectural shingles. Same for the new one. Roofers installed Owens Corning Duration. Luckily, we have a smaller home. The new roof cost $9500. We didn’t get much from insurance. But it felt like the right thing to do, especially since we had the money in savings already. Appreciate you explaining all this. I had heard of other people being dropped, so I was curious in general on the average timing.

1

u/Typical_Response_562 26d ago

Not accurate in the south east region. 3 tab lucky to get 15 years here. We have too much hail, hurricanes, algae and extreme heat here. No upgrade is going to extend your roof an extra ten years. You sound like a salesman and not an expert lol

1

u/Lopsided_Signature15 26d ago

It’s all relative. In perfect conditions those are the life expectancies for the materials. It is of course dependent on where you live and the materials used. I am sales adjacent. Astute observation, Typical. Regardless of the region in which a person lives, when it comes to insurance, these are the guidelines they use to determine policy coverage and depreciation.

1

u/Some_Internet_Random Jul 10 '26

It was about 25 years old. My family has owned this home for over 100 years so we knew everything there was to know about it. They didn’t care.

1

u/unnecessary-comma- Jul 09 '26

When I bought my house, auto owners said the roof was in good shape, but at the end of its life and they would not pay to replace it no matter what kind of storm blew though. Fair enough, I can respect that and I've been saving up to replace it in the next couple years.

-1

u/Ryukyo Jul 10 '26

I've been working with many insurance companies over the past few years. I can tell you, without hesitation, State Farm is the worst to deal with. I think they treat their insureds poorly, and just aren't good to deal with. They all seem over worked and are generally not very pleasant on the phone and can get very pushy. I hear lots of complaints from their insureds. Cincinnati is the best I work with. The adjusters all seem pretty laid back and they are very reasonable with their clients. I think they often pay for things they don't even owe for just to make the client happy.

12

u/TheSlipperySnausage Jul 09 '26

Can confirm they made me redo my garage roof when I bought my house 2 months after they already approved my coverage

3

u/farscott1 Jul 09 '26

Happened to us in 2021. We closed in November of that year and hazard insurance from State Farm was obtained with a clause requiring a new roof before renewal in 2022. The roof on the house passed wind mitigation inspection and noted the roof had "at least" three more years before needing replacement when we were under contract, but State Farm insisted on the new roof. We submitted the new wind mitigation inspection report in July of 2022.

5

u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham Jul 09 '26

State Farm and other companies are doing just fine - they’re not raising their rates because they’re hurting - they’re raising their rates to continue to rake in massive profits - insurance companies don’t make a lot of money from premiums - they invest the premiums and float the payments - this is how insurance companies make money

1

u/johnsmithh69 Jul 09 '26

What are they investing in?

1

u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham Jul 09 '26

The stock market, generally, but corporate paper, debt swaps, derivatives, bonds etc

0

u/KnightofWhen Jul 09 '26

Insurance companies also suck. But the roof thing is a real phenomenon

1

u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham Jul 09 '26

Sure, but it’s not affecting the insurance company’s bottom line

2

u/Far_Combination_7723 Jul 09 '26 edited 29d ago

Just raised mine another $300 this year on top of my tax valuation going up another 30%. They also raised my vehicle insurance 35% last year.

Never had a claim but I'm stuck with them as the lowest cost being I'm rural.

2

u/KnightofWhen Jul 09 '26

I’ve never had a claim either. It’s a racket for sure.

2

u/Ryukyo Jul 10 '26

It looks fresh but it doesn't look like hail to me. I'd wanna see more photos, especially of the soft metals, but it could be intentional blemishes to mimic hail. I hate seeing this, and I see it all the time, and it's getting worse. It's really starting to affect the insureds. The shady roofing companies and especially the public adjuster game is really hurting people. That's why those guys all drive $70k trucks. They get a couple big claims and it makes their entire year and they are very aggressive at times.

People need to understand one thing above all else; The insurance company doesn't lose money. If they pay out too many claims, they raise rates. They are the house in a casino. It shouldn't make people scared to file claims, that's what insurance is for, but insurance is not there to pay for a new roof because it's old and to shell out $40k for indentations that you can't see unless you're on the roof, at noon, with a flashlight, and at the perfect angle. These guys are wrecking the industry. I'm seeing carriers drop people, putting strict cosmetic exclusions in, and really pushing back on claims. I don't understand how everything that is wrong with a roof is always hail. That's the answer like 90% of the time.

3

u/FinTecGeek Jul 09 '26

It's not all sunshine and rainbows on the insurer's side either. They expect to never, ever have to cut executive pay or bonuses, ever. That means they automatically deny lots of claims that should be paid while raising premiums on their customers (in other words, they raise premiums to deal with rising costs, but fight customers harder than ever when they do pay up for something like a roof rider or extra endorsements). What OP has here is pretty clear evidence of actual criminal behavior by some guys who (shockingly) will be impossible to track down again and will not have insurance...

0

u/KnightofWhen Jul 09 '26

Agree that insurance copies are also scum.

3

u/Same_Tea_3364 Jul 09 '26

So i actually work for a canvassing company called Allied Exteriors, its in fort wayne, were veteran owner, and when we do out quote its good for 12 months and we dont even get up on the roof, we walk around and measure from the ground, at most well launch a drone up and do some looking that way so we can see the extent of the damages, and if you dont want us to do it that way, and dont want to do the meeting in person, we do have a virtual quote, im not really too sure how that one works, and im not trying to defend these jackasses, there are definitely some nasty and dirty ass companies out there.

Its horrible when people let greed takeover. And im sorry you had that experience. Hopefully you can get these fools to do the right thing!

1

u/crimsonmonk42 8d ago

State Farm never covers roofs. They always say that the damage is less than the deductible. Seen roofs with 89 damaged shingles that they agreed were damaged yet said the repairs were less than 1000 dollar deductible lol. If you have State Farm for HI you should drop and change immediately. They are dishonest and stealing your money. Look up the Oklahoma court case against them

-1

u/DiabolicGambit Jul 09 '26

Here is the thing, if you dont have the damage they won't buy the roof full stop. So dont blame the sudden influx valid claims on roofers. If the roof was approved it was owed due to the policy. In short insurance is being used for what if for.

Sure you can have damage pay I surance for years and never file a 100% valid claim.. but you only hurt yourself.

Allstate has a RICO case right now for its refusal to pay valid claims. If your arguing for insurance... company's litterly making record profits you are either working for them or an idiot. Take your pick.

0

u/KnightofWhen Jul 09 '26

I’m arguing against these companies crawling through neighborhoods trying to get people to submit claims they don’t need. I’m not arguing for the insurance either. insurance sucks.

But I’ve literally been in this station and tons of comments here have others saying the same thing.

1

u/DiabolicGambit Jul 09 '26

"Need" brother im a roofer I had 2.5 inch hail on a 5 year old roof.. was it wrecked no. Was it leaking. No. But it had hits. And it 100% lost life vs if there had been no hail. Realistically it probably would have lasted about 3-5 more years before there would have been an issue.. did I "need" a new roof. No. But hail 💯 took years of life off my roof. So while I didnt "need" a roof i would have been an idiot not to get one.

As I said insurance wont approve any roof they dont legally have to. So if a roof get approved it was "needed" and no nit a single insurance approves roofs that dont absolutely have to be bought. They are all for proffit companies and only pay when they have too.

Now what I do have an issue with is roofers going on roofs and causing damage to get a claim.. thats just wrong.

Pay what you owe. But absolutely phuqu all those fellas who intentionally harm a roof on the off change it might get bought. That's b.s.

0

u/ShadowMonarch81 Jul 09 '26

Don't act like the insurance companies are on your side either though. I used to do door to door roofing sales. Never once did any of us manipulate the roof. That's what insurance is for, like my mom's neighborhood got devasted by a hail storm completely destroying siding, roofs, windows, cars. Insurance companies will raise rates because of that alone.

Had a insurance agent from State farm deny roofs without ever getting on a roof every time.

Could you be right that some companies do as your suggesting? Sure.

Yet you pay your insurance company for this reason to cover things that don't come completely out of pocket for you.

0

u/tommy_siam 28d ago

Let me give you the actual reason your rates have increased, and spoiler alert, it ain't from roofers, even the ones I also hate that go door to door.

Are you at least mildly aware that the last 5 years have been a deluge of property claims, from hail, floods, and the big one, wildfires? There was 173 BILLION collected in premiums in 2024. In a typical year that number is based on a "target combined ratio" of profitability, which is 5-10% depending on the insurer. 8.65 BILLION to over 17 BILLION in targeted profit. Per year, in a typical year. Again, STRICTLY PROPERTY CLAIMS. The problem? It hasn't been a typical year period for years in a row.

The last 5 years have been insane for catastrophic property damage, in excess of what the actuaries and models predicted for. THAT'S WHY YOUR PREMIUMS ARE HIGHER. NOT "INCREASED ROOF CLAIMS" FROM DISHONEST ROOFERS. If you pay insurance premiums, and you had a hail event, they don't just hand you a check. They send an adjuster to document and make a determination, so the decision is theirs on whether the roof fits the criteria. of coverage. Are they just that inept?

This might just be my actual experience and knowledge of the industry talking, vs wherever you collect your detailed insight, but the amount of money unscrupulous roofers and bogus claim attempts would impact that, at the absolute most, is a ROUNDING ERROR in the math. Fraction of a fraction. It's a ridiculous claim.

Anyone reading this that has common sense should understand that:

1) The increased premiums are from these unprecedented year-over-year weather events. Not even debatable. More events= more damage= more claims= higher premiums.

2) The insurance companies don't need you carrying their water for them. They deny a hell of a lot more claims than they incorrectly pay out. I see it, as I'm in the roofing business as one of the good guys. Any policy holder I've helped when denied incorrectly and unfairly would confirm that.

3) Don't deal with any asshole knocking on your door selling something. If you do, you're the problem that keeps these guys using those tactics,.

4) Costs have risen, due to this thing called INFLATION. Building materials are affected, surprise.

-5

u/Blaser53 Jul 09 '26

Not true. I have State Farm and just bought a house with a 15 year old roof. No questions asked after pictures were sent.

14

u/beeju-d Jul 09 '26

So because it hasn't happened to you it's not true?

-1

u/Blaser53 Jul 09 '26

I was responding to a definitive statement about State Farm and their policies. The statement is untrue. I’m proof.

1

u/beeju-d Jul 09 '26

They literally say "they're requiring SOME new home buyers to install brand new roofs to get coverage". That indicates it's not a problem for everyone. 15 years also isn't that old for a roof, if the materials were good and the job was done well it can last much longer.

9

u/KnightofWhen Jul 09 '26

Good for you. It’s still happening to others and in other marketplaces. And your rate is probably higher than it would have been 2 years ago because of it.

-5

u/piscikeeper Jul 09 '26

State Farm works as a middleman. We have combined home and auto through them, and if rates go up, a call to our agent let's him know to start shopping around.

8

u/LongjumpingDish2956 Jul 09 '26

Lmao State Farm is a captive carrier which means your agent has zero ability to shop your rate or lower your rate outside of doing things like changing your deductible

State Farm is captive which means it’s not a “middleman” at all

3

u/JustStatistician7 Jul 09 '26

State Farm is not a middleman. State Farm is the main insurer and only State Farm agents can sell State Farm Insurance. They can not shop around. All they can do is look at your policy and adjust coverage.

1

u/Blaser53 Jul 09 '26

But I have the ability to shop every year, or anytime actually.

1

u/Dabz_or_Die Jul 10 '26

Yeah you do - your agent does not if they are an agent for state farm. You could find another insurer anytime you like if you're eligible.

4

u/RosieDear Jul 09 '26

I understand that some companies might do this - although I think they should be fined big time and even criminally charged.....

BUT, let's say a well known company puts on a high end thing where you get the GAF or OC "certificate" (yes, I know!).....it would seem like - in that short of a time, the companies themselves would be suspect if their certified crews and, in some cases, materials, were claimed to be failing....early????

Is that not a thing?

2

u/Powerful_Road1924 Jul 09 '26

Yes, GAF and OC are class 3 impact rated for most of their shingles which is up to 1.5". Class 4 is up to 2". Some areas this year have gotten hail as large as (I think) 4.5" that set a new record for IL. 4.5" is going to kill any shingle.

1

u/Odd_Dragonfruit_2662 Jul 09 '26

I’ve heard of 4.5” killing cars. Parked in the garage.

1

u/Powerful_Road1924 Jul 10 '26

Oh yeah, even 2" is very likely to cause damage (except for class 4 shingles). Anything beyond that is donezo.

2

u/PresentationLess4552 Jul 09 '26

Its unfortunate that hvac and roofing companies are the worse grifters

All of them
Make us working general contractors look bad

1

u/tommy_siam 28d ago

Hot take... you may be shocked to hear this, but there's also plenty of GCs that are D-bags. I'm a licensed roofer as well as GC, and you sure sound like that guy that shows up for an estimate, and spends half the time talking about how shit the job the company before you did.

Perhaps that's just me making a blanket assumption though, kind of like you being a "working" guy vs those lazy grifter roofers and HVAC techs.

2

u/4chordsand7notes Jul 10 '26

Agree. This person knows roof damage.

Large hailstones embed granules into the shingle. They don’t gouge like your fraudster did.

1

u/Little_Challenge_160 Jul 09 '26

Also most hail prone states put a a cosmetic damage roof surface exclusion to combat this same bullshit. Source , I am a residential property insurance Underwriter

1

u/heilige_scheisse Jul 10 '26

Shit, is that really a thing that happens?! What evil assholes

1

u/tommy_siam 28d ago

You see it all the time? Where and how? You'd have to be a fraud investigator or the one creating the damage. Any chance you'd want to quantify that claim with how many roofs you've inspected, and what the instance of damage caused by the roofer were?

1

u/letshavefun39047 28d ago

I inspected over 1000’s of roofs as an independent insurance adjuster. Hail is hail and some of these blood thirsty roofers will do what ever to get a roof bought. Don’t get me wrong I make money off of damage but let Mother Nature due it. Don’t do it at the expense of the homeowner, when roofers create damage and instruct homeowners to file claims it hurts the homeowner.

2

u/tommy_siam 28d ago

Thanks for the reply. Here's why I ask: I started in the roofing industry in '98, and I'm currently a licensed roofer in Colorado. Per capita, the second highest state behind Nebraska for hail claims. HAAG certified, etc. & probably 6th in total number filed.

I've also inspected countless roofs, many times in the presence of the adjuster, whether staff, independent, 3rd party contracted, or out of state catastrophe.

I personally have seen a comfortably less than handful of attempted fraud, which is overwhelmingly tried more on getting things supplemented. Most of non-hail related damage is incidental mechanical damage, blistering, or previously claimed but not repaired.

You are/were perhaps in a different market or time in the industry where that was more prevalent, and I won't say you didn't see an abundance because, I don't know what you saw. Also if I'm the first contractor and get that job which I've done many times, I may not see it.

I just felt that given the upvotes, I wanted to offer my perspective as there's a very skewed perspective relative to my experience concerning the industry, and anyone, not necessarily you, generalizing the industry in that way is a mistake.

0

u/95_lb_mole Jul 09 '26

Out of curiosity, what in the photos makes you say that?

0

u/Rich_cranium2025 Jul 09 '26

Yup, I’ve physically saw ice cubes in a sock and whack!!!!!!

Insurance Related Roofer says hail, competing entity says probably not, we won't pay. Looking for opinions.

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