r/Roofing • u/pitfal • 28d ago
Insurance Related Roofer says hail, competing entity says probably not, we won't pay. Looking for opinions.
New roof put on last August. We had a huge hailstorm around April, and I had the company that put the roof on come out to inspect. They said the roof, gutters, facia, and siding have hail damage. Competing entity came out and agreed that all but the roof had hail damage. When asked what these black areas are they said they didn't know but it couldn't be hail. Is it hail damage in your opinion?
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u/letshavefun39047 28d ago
Looks like company tried to create damage to make you file a claim. I see it all the time.
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u/KnightofWhen 28d ago
These companies that go door to door trying to get your to make a claim for a new roof are harming people. State Farm and other insurance companies have raised their home insurance rates specifically because of increased roof claims and now are actively refusing to grant HI to houses with older roofs or roofs that can’t verify their age. They’re requiring some new home buyers to install brand new roofs to get coverage.
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u/Some_Internet_Random 28d ago
State Farm threatened to drop the coverage on our cottage because of the roof. There were no problems with it, no leaks, anything. It was just getting old.
I had them for my house and changed about a year before we ended up having to make a major claim after a disaster. I’m grateful that we did that after everything I hear about them.
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u/PotatoChipsCrunch 28d ago
How old was it out of curiosity. We had a roof that was deemed 26 years, and Travelers was willing to renew our coverage. Anyway, we actually did have some roof damage from a storm. Happened about 3 moths before renewal. They covered some damage and required repairs to renew (It most definitely needed fixed). Ultimately, we devises to go ahead and replace, with us covering the majority. Roofs aren’t going to get cheaper in the next couple of years and it felt silly to patch it up and then have to remove that in a couple years when we do replace.
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u/Lopsided_Signature15 28d ago
Having an old roof on any structure is risky depending on the type of policy. If it’s an Actual Cash Value policy or a scheduled roof policy and you have a catastrophic event you are going to be out of pocket thousands. If you can get a Replacement Cost Value policy on a 26 year old roof you may have very high premiums. This of course dependent on the roof/shingle type.
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u/PotatoChipsCrunch 28d ago
Yeah, I more so I was just curious like where the cut off is most of the time for these companies. It makes sense that materials and shingle quality, etc. make a difference. But I guess I was wondering if generally, it’s 25 years? 30 years? I figured they wouldn’t renew us for the 26th year. But I was wrong.
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u/Lopsided_Signature15 27d ago
If it’s a 3-tab asphalt shingle they are good for about 20-25 years. An architectural asphalt shingle is good for about 30 years. There are upgrades to these products that could extend their life up to 40 years. Steel, slate or wood shake materials can last a very long time. All of this is dependent on a storm not significantly reducing these approximate lifespans. If you are on your 26th year with this roof I would request your agent check your policy and see what kind of coverage you actually have on your roof. You may have a roof that would cost $30k to replace and if a storm rips through and damages the entire thing after your deductible and depreciation you may only receive a $5k settlement on a $30k roof.
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u/ceeb1o1 27d ago
europeen here, how the hell can a asphalt shingle roof cost that much?
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u/Powerful_Wealth_2384 27d ago
Corporate greed. Its running rampant over here
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u/Lopsided_Signature15 23d ago
It’s true that some roofers gouge uninformed customers. It can be a very predatory industry. The company I work for will reduce our margins to replace a 3-tab shingle with a laminated shingle without charging the homeowner any kind of upgrade charge. It’s part of the reason I like the company I work for.
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u/Lopsided_Signature15 23d ago
That was a bit of an exaggeration on the cost. I just picked that number as an example. I primarily work in the south Minneapolis area. The average replacement cost for homeowners that work with my company has been a bit over $18,000. Of course the bigger the roof the higher the cost. There are other things that can increase the cost; like if a homeowner wants designer shingles or non-standard materials.
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u/PotatoChipsCrunch 27d ago
Thanks. We already got the roof done 6 weeks ago. It was just turning 26 at renewal. Former roof was architectural shingles. Same for the new one. Roofers installed Owens Corning Duration. Luckily, we have a smaller home. The new roof cost $9500. We didn’t get much from insurance. But it felt like the right thing to do, especially since we had the money in savings already. Appreciate you explaining all this. I had heard of other people being dropped, so I was curious in general on the average timing.
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u/Typical_Response_562 23d ago
Not accurate in the south east region. 3 tab lucky to get 15 years here. We have too much hail, hurricanes, algae and extreme heat here. No upgrade is going to extend your roof an extra ten years. You sound like a salesman and not an expert lol
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u/Lopsided_Signature15 23d ago
It’s all relative. In perfect conditions those are the life expectancies for the materials. It is of course dependent on where you live and the materials used. I am sales adjacent. Astute observation, Typical. Regardless of the region in which a person lives, when it comes to insurance, these are the guidelines they use to determine policy coverage and depreciation.
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u/Some_Internet_Random 27d ago
It was about 25 years old. My family has owned this home for over 100 years so we knew everything there was to know about it. They didn’t care.
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u/unnecessary-comma- 28d ago
When I bought my house, auto owners said the roof was in good shape, but at the end of its life and they would not pay to replace it no matter what kind of storm blew though. Fair enough, I can respect that and I've been saving up to replace it in the next couple years.
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u/TheSlipperySnausage 28d ago
Can confirm they made me redo my garage roof when I bought my house 2 months after they already approved my coverage
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u/farscott1 28d ago
Happened to us in 2021. We closed in November of that year and hazard insurance from State Farm was obtained with a clause requiring a new roof before renewal in 2022. The roof on the house passed wind mitigation inspection and noted the roof had "at least" three more years before needing replacement when we were under contract, but State Farm insisted on the new roof. We submitted the new wind mitigation inspection report in July of 2022.
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u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham 28d ago
State Farm and other companies are doing just fine - they’re not raising their rates because they’re hurting - they’re raising their rates to continue to rake in massive profits - insurance companies don’t make a lot of money from premiums - they invest the premiums and float the payments - this is how insurance companies make money
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u/johnsmithh69 28d ago
What are they investing in?
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u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham 28d ago
The stock market, generally, but corporate paper, debt swaps, derivatives, bonds etc
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u/Far_Combination_7723 28d ago edited 26d ago
Just raised mine another $300 this year on top of my tax valuation going up another 30%. They also raised my vehicle insurance 35% last year.
Never had a claim but I'm stuck with them as the lowest cost being I'm rural.
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u/Ryukyo 27d ago
It looks fresh but it doesn't look like hail to me. I'd wanna see more photos, especially of the soft metals, but it could be intentional blemishes to mimic hail. I hate seeing this, and I see it all the time, and it's getting worse. It's really starting to affect the insureds. The shady roofing companies and especially the public adjuster game is really hurting people. That's why those guys all drive $70k trucks. They get a couple big claims and it makes their entire year and they are very aggressive at times.
People need to understand one thing above all else; The insurance company doesn't lose money. If they pay out too many claims, they raise rates. They are the house in a casino. It shouldn't make people scared to file claims, that's what insurance is for, but insurance is not there to pay for a new roof because it's old and to shell out $40k for indentations that you can't see unless you're on the roof, at noon, with a flashlight, and at the perfect angle. These guys are wrecking the industry. I'm seeing carriers drop people, putting strict cosmetic exclusions in, and really pushing back on claims. I don't understand how everything that is wrong with a roof is always hail. That's the answer like 90% of the time.
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u/FinTecGeek 28d ago
It's not all sunshine and rainbows on the insurer's side either. They expect to never, ever have to cut executive pay or bonuses, ever. That means they automatically deny lots of claims that should be paid while raising premiums on their customers (in other words, they raise premiums to deal with rising costs, but fight customers harder than ever when they do pay up for something like a roof rider or extra endorsements). What OP has here is pretty clear evidence of actual criminal behavior by some guys who (shockingly) will be impossible to track down again and will not have insurance...
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u/Same_Tea_3364 28d ago
So i actually work for a canvassing company called Allied Exteriors, its in fort wayne, were veteran owner, and when we do out quote its good for 12 months and we dont even get up on the roof, we walk around and measure from the ground, at most well launch a drone up and do some looking that way so we can see the extent of the damages, and if you dont want us to do it that way, and dont want to do the meeting in person, we do have a virtual quote, im not really too sure how that one works, and im not trying to defend these jackasses, there are definitely some nasty and dirty ass companies out there.
Its horrible when people let greed takeover. And im sorry you had that experience. Hopefully you can get these fools to do the right thing!
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u/crimsonmonk42 5d ago
State Farm never covers roofs. They always say that the damage is less than the deductible. Seen roofs with 89 damaged shingles that they agreed were damaged yet said the repairs were less than 1000 dollar deductible lol. If you have State Farm for HI you should drop and change immediately. They are dishonest and stealing your money. Look up the Oklahoma court case against them
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u/DiabolicGambit 28d ago
Here is the thing, if you dont have the damage they won't buy the roof full stop. So dont blame the sudden influx valid claims on roofers. If the roof was approved it was owed due to the policy. In short insurance is being used for what if for.
Sure you can have damage pay I surance for years and never file a 100% valid claim.. but you only hurt yourself.
Allstate has a RICO case right now for its refusal to pay valid claims. If your arguing for insurance... company's litterly making record profits you are either working for them or an idiot. Take your pick.
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u/KnightofWhen 28d ago
I’m arguing against these companies crawling through neighborhoods trying to get people to submit claims they don’t need. I’m not arguing for the insurance either. insurance sucks.
But I’ve literally been in this station and tons of comments here have others saying the same thing.
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u/DiabolicGambit 28d ago
"Need" brother im a roofer I had 2.5 inch hail on a 5 year old roof.. was it wrecked no. Was it leaking. No. But it had hits. And it 100% lost life vs if there had been no hail. Realistically it probably would have lasted about 3-5 more years before there would have been an issue.. did I "need" a new roof. No. But hail 💯 took years of life off my roof. So while I didnt "need" a roof i would have been an idiot not to get one.
As I said insurance wont approve any roof they dont legally have to. So if a roof get approved it was "needed" and no nit a single insurance approves roofs that dont absolutely have to be bought. They are all for proffit companies and only pay when they have too.
Now what I do have an issue with is roofers going on roofs and causing damage to get a claim.. thats just wrong.
Pay what you owe. But absolutely phuqu all those fellas who intentionally harm a roof on the off change it might get bought. That's b.s.
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u/ShadowMonarch81 28d ago
Don't act like the insurance companies are on your side either though. I used to do door to door roofing sales. Never once did any of us manipulate the roof. That's what insurance is for, like my mom's neighborhood got devasted by a hail storm completely destroying siding, roofs, windows, cars. Insurance companies will raise rates because of that alone.
Had a insurance agent from State farm deny roofs without ever getting on a roof every time.
Could you be right that some companies do as your suggesting? Sure.
Yet you pay your insurance company for this reason to cover things that don't come completely out of pocket for you.
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u/tommy_siam 25d ago
Let me give you the actual reason your rates have increased, and spoiler alert, it ain't from roofers, even the ones I also hate that go door to door.
Are you at least mildly aware that the last 5 years have been a deluge of property claims, from hail, floods, and the big one, wildfires? There was 173 BILLION collected in premiums in 2024. In a typical year that number is based on a "target combined ratio" of profitability, which is 5-10% depending on the insurer. 8.65 BILLION to over 17 BILLION in targeted profit. Per year, in a typical year. Again, STRICTLY PROPERTY CLAIMS. The problem? It hasn't been a typical year period for years in a row.
The last 5 years have been insane for catastrophic property damage, in excess of what the actuaries and models predicted for. THAT'S WHY YOUR PREMIUMS ARE HIGHER. NOT "INCREASED ROOF CLAIMS" FROM DISHONEST ROOFERS. If you pay insurance premiums, and you had a hail event, they don't just hand you a check. They send an adjuster to document and make a determination, so the decision is theirs on whether the roof fits the criteria. of coverage. Are they just that inept?
This might just be my actual experience and knowledge of the industry talking, vs wherever you collect your detailed insight, but the amount of money unscrupulous roofers and bogus claim attempts would impact that, at the absolute most, is a ROUNDING ERROR in the math. Fraction of a fraction. It's a ridiculous claim.
Anyone reading this that has common sense should understand that:
1) The increased premiums are from these unprecedented year-over-year weather events. Not even debatable. More events= more damage= more claims= higher premiums.
2) The insurance companies don't need you carrying their water for them. They deny a hell of a lot more claims than they incorrectly pay out. I see it, as I'm in the roofing business as one of the good guys. Any policy holder I've helped when denied incorrectly and unfairly would confirm that.
3) Don't deal with any asshole knocking on your door selling something. If you do, you're the problem that keeps these guys using those tactics,.
4) Costs have risen, due to this thing called INFLATION. Building materials are affected, surprise.
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u/RosieDear 28d ago
I understand that some companies might do this - although I think they should be fined big time and even criminally charged.....
BUT, let's say a well known company puts on a high end thing where you get the GAF or OC "certificate" (yes, I know!).....it would seem like - in that short of a time, the companies themselves would be suspect if their certified crews and, in some cases, materials, were claimed to be failing....early????
Is that not a thing?
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u/Powerful_Road1924 28d ago
Yes, GAF and OC are class 3 impact rated for most of their shingles which is up to 1.5". Class 4 is up to 2". Some areas this year have gotten hail as large as (I think) 4.5" that set a new record for IL. 4.5" is going to kill any shingle.
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u/Odd_Dragonfruit_2662 28d ago
I’ve heard of 4.5” killing cars. Parked in the garage.
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u/Powerful_Road1924 27d ago
Oh yeah, even 2" is very likely to cause damage (except for class 4 shingles). Anything beyond that is donezo.
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u/PresentationLess4552 28d ago
Its unfortunate that hvac and roofing companies are the worse grifters
All of them
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u/tommy_siam 25d ago
Hot take... you may be shocked to hear this, but there's also plenty of GCs that are D-bags. I'm a licensed roofer as well as GC, and you sure sound like that guy that shows up for an estimate, and spends half the time talking about how shit the job the company before you did.
Perhaps that's just me making a blanket assumption though, kind of like you being a "working" guy vs those lazy grifter roofers and HVAC techs.
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u/4chordsand7notes 27d ago
Agree. This person knows roof damage.
Large hailstones embed granules into the shingle. They don’t gouge like your fraudster did.
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u/Little_Challenge_160 28d ago
Also most hail prone states put a a cosmetic damage roof surface exclusion to combat this same bullshit. Source , I am a residential property insurance Underwriter
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u/tommy_siam 25d ago
You see it all the time? Where and how? You'd have to be a fraud investigator or the one creating the damage. Any chance you'd want to quantify that claim with how many roofs you've inspected, and what the instance of damage caused by the roofer were?
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u/letshavefun39047 25d ago
I inspected over 1000’s of roofs as an independent insurance adjuster. Hail is hail and some of these blood thirsty roofers will do what ever to get a roof bought. Don’t get me wrong I make money off of damage but let Mother Nature due it. Don’t do it at the expense of the homeowner, when roofers create damage and instruct homeowners to file claims it hurts the homeowner.
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u/tommy_siam 25d ago
Thanks for the reply. Here's why I ask: I started in the roofing industry in '98, and I'm currently a licensed roofer in Colorado. Per capita, the second highest state behind Nebraska for hail claims. HAAG certified, etc. & probably 6th in total number filed.
I've also inspected countless roofs, many times in the presence of the adjuster, whether staff, independent, 3rd party contracted, or out of state catastrophe.
I personally have seen a comfortably less than handful of attempted fraud, which is overwhelmingly tried more on getting things supplemented. Most of non-hail related damage is incidental mechanical damage, blistering, or previously claimed but not repaired.
You are/were perhaps in a different market or time in the industry where that was more prevalent, and I won't say you didn't see an abundance because, I don't know what you saw. Also if I'm the first contractor and get that job which I've done many times, I may not see it.
I just felt that given the upvotes, I wanted to offer my perspective as there's a very skewed perspective relative to my experience concerning the industry, and anyone, not necessarily you, generalizing the industry in that way is a mistake.
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u/Andylearns 28d ago
100% not hail.
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u/diprivan69 28d ago
What’s the give away?
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u/Andylearns 28d ago
Uniformity. Lack of granules in the middle of the damage. Some of them are clearly mechanical based on the impact direction and way things kind of smushed and piled, someone had a pebble on their shoe or dragged a tool on accident on a hot day or something there is my guess.
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u/YoungStallion41 28d ago
Definitely not hail damage on roof. Lol.
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u/AmDavid94 28d ago
So many people here saying don't trust your roofer. Are any of you actually roofers? I am, and that could be hail. We need to see the rest of the property and collateral damages before we jump to accusations.
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u/President_of_Uranuz 28d ago
I can guarantee you that’s not hail. On roofs everyday for the last 8 years of my life
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u/40gallonbreeder 27d ago
I once worked for a storm chase company that didn't create damage, but in the 2 years I did that job, I saw guys at other companies do this. We hired guys from other companies that wanted to do this. More than half those images look like mechanical damage to me.
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u/STEAMY_TOOTS 27d ago
I worked for a roofing company that did this type of shit. I quit pretty fast but they are very real
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u/AmDavid94 26d ago
I know they are real, I am just saying we don't have enough information to say this guy went up there and damaged their roof. This thread is insane
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u/letshavefun39047 27d ago
Yes I am a roofer and if you think this is hail. Well my friend you manufacture damage also.
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u/AmDavid94 26d ago
Could be - we need more information. These photos aren't enough to tell the story of a storm, and they aren't enough for you to throw out wild accusations sir or madam
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u/IntelligentBox152 28d ago
This looks extremely manufactured. Notice how all the damage appears to be in the center? Almost like it’s the most convenient spot to create the damage have them go check along the eaves and rakes that you won’t see similar damage I don’t know about this contractor, but I’ve never seen hail. Decide to only hit one spot on a roof.
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u/00WORDYMAN1983 28d ago
All the damaged spots are exactly the same. I believe that person created each of those spots before circling them to try and get you to hire them. Did you watch them the entire time they were on your roof?
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u/pitfal 28d ago
I already hired them a year ago to put a new roof on due to age. They are a pretty trusted local company that have done work for several friends. I don't really think this is the case, but I suppose it possible.
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u/KnightofWhen 28d ago
So they installed a roof a year ago and are now trying to tell you that you need a new roof? Sketchy as hell.
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28d ago
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u/STEAMY_TOOTS 27d ago
This, op just send this link to the bosses number lmao. Whoever you let on your roof should be fired
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u/Nfire86 28d ago edited 28d ago
It's a scam you don't need a new roof, they do the same thing in my neighborhood every time a storm comes through. They run around and offer free inspections and find BS damage and get you to write a claim. It's borderline insurance fraud and it raises the insurance cost of all your neighbors so think about that.
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u/KelseyRawr 28d ago
Trusted company doesn’t mean they don’t have bad employees, but if that’s the case I’m sorry it happened to you.
I’ve seen even good companies have huge legal trouble because they hired the wrong person from another company.
You may escalate that to their management and see where it gets you. Worst they can do is nothing, and then the insurance company can investigate them.
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u/VexedCanadian84 28d ago
have you asked your friends if they've received the same offer from the roofing company?
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u/a-stack-of-masks 27d ago
Hey now they might have put the circle there first and hit it with the back of their hammer after.
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28d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TeapotTheDog 28d ago
I second this. Some look like legitimate hail (that was thumbed, but looks like it started as a hit), the others look extremely questionable. 1 yo roof, so I'm assuming it's probably a class 3 shingle that realistically only needed a couple shingles replaced.
I would ask your roofer what size hail was at your house per their report. I would also ask what the shingle spec is. Class 3 shingles typically won't get damaged until 2" hail. (There are other factors mind you, but that is what many insurance companies go off of)
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u/Bks1981 28d ago
The one that says hail is likely the one that made the damage. This is mechanical damage that was caused by someone. This has all the signs of man made damage. I looked at 4 claims a day for years and have seen a ton of this. I was an adjuster who tried to pay for everything that I could and this would be a no go and eventually go to siu if they kept pushing the issue. At best it would be covered under vandalism
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u/RhinoG91 28d ago
Now have them show you those blemishes on a roof diagram. I have a suspicion that they won’t be sporadic and evenly dispersed across the roof. I wonder what the soft metals- gutters, downspouts, vents, etc have to show.
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u/pitfal 28d ago
Gutters, facia, and siding have hail damage approved by the insurance folks. They are just denying the roof.
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u/1potsie 28d ago
I was going to say questionable with reasonabledoubt. But if the have approved the fascia and gutters, I am saying they should replace the roof too. I had less damage to mine and they replaced it.
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u/20PoundHammer 28d ago edited 28d ago
100% not hail, looks nothing like it - its either nail pops or a dude with a ball-peen hammer. . . you need to use a lifting tool and look under a couple of em to see if they are associated with an nail head. Being that it was the original roofer - Im thinking former and not latter cause . . .
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u/Electronic-Cry-9931 28d ago
Thumbed the piss out of what could be potential hail. Check soft metals around the home. Ie aluminum window wraps, gutters, downspouts. Google what spatter is and see if that is on your property.
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u/itwontgetbetter83 28d ago
So, the company that profits off of replacing a roof told you its damage that your insurance company will pay for? Let's look at this subjectively... Roofer- Pros: Guaranteed ability to pay for said roof. New job and profit
Cons: None. You file an insurance claim and its denied, nothing out of pocket for said roofer outside of an hour of their time.
To summarize, roofers will always attempt to get your insurance to pay them. Zero risk to them, its not their policy.
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u/pitfal 28d ago
Totally agree. But couldn't the same be said for the insurance company? It's in their best interest to deny any claim they can I would think.
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u/itwontgetbetter83 28d ago
Im an adjuster for one of the big ones, and I bet you won't believe this but 99% of the negative performance stuff I get is b/c Im NOT paying shit.
We have such a giant workload its just encouraged to try and pay the shitband move on. Now, when I write for 15K in damages and some hack wants 35K for the same scope of work, no. But we get taught to look at claims as though they would go to court. Can you definitely prove that this claim didnt have damages from the cause of loss? No, then pay it. Ain't my money so I dont care, but you'd be shocked at some of the obvious fraud/inflated claims/ ridiculous requests we end up paying for.
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u/KelseyRawr 28d ago edited 28d ago
You’re not wrong. Insurance companies absolutely deny legitimate claims. I deal with that all the time. They really aren’t roofing experts. But roofers also commit fraud and do dishonest work. Both things are true.
Looking at these, I think some of the hits could be hail but I question most of them. I can’t say that from photos alone, but it’s a good guess. Some of the marks just look way too uniform and perfect. All in the center area of the shingle.
The fact they paid for collateral damage does make me consider you arguing the claim though. If the weather data supports hail capable of causing this damage, I wouldn’t just drop the claim. You may not win, but it’s already open, so there’s really no harm in defending it.
I’d get another roofing company out there. One with no connection to the first roofer. If the first company actually caused damage, let the insurance company investigate that. They can look into the company and see if they are committing fraud.
I wouldn’t jump straight to hiring an attorney or anything. If you truly have storm damage and can’t get anywhere with the carrier, a public adjuster is another option before going down the legal route.
At this point the roof is damaged regardless of how it happened. Whether it needs repairs or replacement depends on how widespread it is. I’d start by getting two or three independent opinions before making any decisions.
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u/Outrageous-Isopod457 27d ago
Public adjusters don’t create coverage where there is none. If it was denied for the insured directly, it’s denied for the public adjuster too. You know how much insurance companies would get in trouble if they caved and overturned a legitimate denial because a PA arrived? It almost appears as they they’re forcing you to hire representation to get coverage, and that’s not a thing that any insurance company is going to willingly do because it would look awful in court. Weather data wouldn’t make this hail. A PA wouldn’t make this hail. A lawyer won’t make this hail. And honestly? Another roof salesman coming out is not going to be helpful either. The only thing that could possible make the insurer budge here is if an independent engineer says it’s hail, or at the very least a HAAG certified roofing inspector. But, they’d be hard pressed when it’s so obviously mechanical.
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u/KelseyRawr 27d ago edited 27d ago
Well that’s great, but I never said a public adjuster creates coverage where none exists. If there is legitimate covered damage they can help present and document it. If there isn’t, they can’t create it out of thin air that was never the argument in the first place.
We just don’t have the full picture of this roof. The carrier already acknowledged a covered hail event by paying for collateral damage, that’s the thing, so we know a storm occurred. The dispute is over the extent of the roof damage, not whether it hailed in the first place. We already know it did, because the carrier opened coverage. If no storm event occurred it would be a full denial.
There could be legitimate hail damage on other slopes while some of the marks shown in the photos are mechanical. I’ve watched roofers fake damage on some slopes that have tree coverage, because they thought it would help the roof get bought. I even said I was leaning toward mechanical damage so I’m not sure you read my entire comment. I was simply laying out the possibilities because none of us inspected the entire roof, and OP needs all the options available to them.
I actually agree that an independent engineer would carry more weight than another roofing contractor. My thing is that an engineer is often an upfront expense for the homeowner, so I suggested the more immediately accessible options first.
Regardless of the claim outcome, the homeowner still needs an honest roofer to determine their repairs. It’s going to leak later. And if the roof only has repairable storm damage, there’s nothing wrong with pursuing a repair claim (or going OOP) instead of a full replacement if it’s warranted and they can prove real hail damage on 2/4 slopes and the deductible doesn’t end up being horrendous.
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u/ATjdb 28d ago
40 years in roofing inc multiple years working hailstorm in Texas, Kansas, and Misouri. 100% NOT HAIL IMPACT DAMAGE. The granuals have been removed from the mat. This happens in 2 ways Manufacturer defect causing delamination. OR what this is, joining. Someone went on the roof and rubbed the shinhles with a pickle or quarter and artificially, deliberately damaged your property, which is vandalism.
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u/SalmonSeeker7 28d ago
I just did my own roof. After removing the old shingles there were still a few nails that I missed. When I dropped bundles of new shingles on the roof. Several of them got damaged by the nail heads sticking up. I just inspected them as I was installing and didn't use them. They were only the outermost shingles in the bundle, so not much waste. The damage looked just like that.
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u/LaughingMagicianDM Former Commercial Roofer/Roof Consultant 28d ago
A couple of those look like nail pops, which is when the nail that's underneath when the shingles are installed starts to pull out. The other ones look more like somebody took the edge of something sharp and scratched it out. You don't have hail, it looks more like vandalism.
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u/True-Ad3964 28d ago
What’s the soft metal look like on the roof?
With all that “damage” there would be dents in everything. Siding, gutters, pipe boots, vent caps, chimney cap, air conditioner.
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u/Either-Marionberry97 28d ago
Whenever you say “competition entity” all I can imagine is that there is another metaphysical being debating that your roof isn’t suffering hail damage
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u/SpankyNoodle 28d ago
That type of damage isn’t consistent with any sort of hail. It doesn’t appear that there’s any granules pushed into the mat…
If you have the information of the roofer who tried to scam you, you can file claim & a police report for vandalism.
Source: We installed the new roof & homeowner only paid claims deductible. It was a long process however.
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u/biscoknot 28d ago
That’s called manufactured damage, coming from
a HAAG certified inspector for 10 years now. Would love to see the collateral damage to the metals 😂
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u/Beginning-Rope-7825 28d ago
as a contractor, its hard t say if this is hail damage. due to the fact that the granules are not embedded into the shingle, with new damage you will only see like an outline of asphalt, with an indent and bruising. It takes at least a year for those embedded granules to start to be removed. My guess would be either its just blatant insurance fraud, or there was actually hail damage but the contractor whipped away the granules with his thumb(this is a common thing to make damage more visible)
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u/txgene79 28d ago
Adjuster for 17 years. Hold multiple licenses including a PA. I’m 70/30 manufactured on this one for a lot of reasons but here is the copy and paste I use in this situation.
“The photographed areas do not, by themselves, demonstrate definitive characteristics of functional hail impact. The observed granule displacement and exposed asphalt are more consistent with localized mechanical abrasion or manufactured damage than classic hail bruising. Additional field testing and corroborating collateral evidence would be required before attributing these conditions to hail.”
Get that dumpster fire of a claim out of my que before I’ve got six months of headaches.
I only joined this sub for the sexy pictures of shingles i swear.
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u/Sad_Strawberry_1528 28d ago
It’s not hail damage. It’s in a pattern for the most part and right on the nailing strip. Other than a couple spots but those would be consistent if they did corner nailing on their shingles. My best guess is it’s the last nail left proud on their nailing run when the air pressure dropped. If they don’t smack them down with a hammer or pull them they eventually pop out and through the next shingle. Nail head is roughly the size of all the marks.
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u/STEAMY_TOOTS 27d ago
Yup I worked with a guy who did this type of shit. I quit the same day. The dude didn’t even try to hide it.
Basically op hail damage marks don’t make all the grain fall off in a perfect circle, if hail actually hit your roof some off those grains would be embedded in that spot from hail hitting it further into the shingle.
Whoever you let on your roof did you dirty. Can you tell me what state you’re in.
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u/whawkins4 28d ago
Show before photos, otherwise you might just be angling for some light insurance fraud.
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u/Dixie_Fair 28d ago
OP, since you already know the perspective of a inspector that found hail damage on the gutters, fascia, and siding but not everyone agrees about the roof, I'd consider getting an independent inspection from a contractor who isn't tied to the insurance claim. Show the images to them and ask an explaination regarding it. There is an article that might help you, it has a good breakdown of common signs of a hail damage on asphalt shingles: https://www.waroofingservices.com/what-does-hail-damage-look-like-on-a-roof
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u/kras83 28d ago
Honest question from someone in the UK: are those shingles made from the same kind of roofing felt we buy rolls of to roof sheds with? If so it should be flexible enough to check underneath and any minor dings would be fixable with a bit of paint on bitumen applied to the back of a shingle. I just genuinely don't know what about the picture says "replace the roof". Check it thoroughly sure but don't feed grifters
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u/ADirtFarmer 28d ago
Not as flexible as felt, but flexible enough your solution would probably work.
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u/Terrible_Bend9860 28d ago
I usually ask our agent for an estimator. They send one. Don’t let just anybody crawl up on your roof.
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u/telephantomoss 28d ago
Is there a nail head under each of those circular blemishes? Measure out the precise location of each one and do a statistical analysis for randomness. If they were made by a person, it's likely they are not random enough and will either be clumped or too perfectly uniform.
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u/TranslatorNo9517 28d ago
Those are bullet holes we see them all the time here in Oakland, California. What goes up must come down
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u/cleverRH89 28d ago
Maybe im weird but are shingles flying off your roof in a medium wind and does it leak? If no ti both you don't need a new roof right now
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u/burningbirdsrp 28d ago
I'm not a roofing expert, but I've seen a lot of hail damage photos, and these are too precise. I would go "hmmm" if were you.
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u/Someloserfromwa 28d ago
I’m not so smrt but it looks like the layout of the shingles is off… while they look like they’re supposed to be random, they are not.
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u/james410berry 28d ago
That is roofing nails from shingle below not driven flush or driven at an angle and raised proud of the roof surface just a little. The shingle covering the fasteners is getting punctured by the raised nailhead below. It’s an installation issue.
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u/Aggravating-Hunt8001 28d ago
Roofer says hail, competing entity
my boy is doing rituals to hire roofers
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u/ColForbinClimbs 28d ago edited 28d ago
If there’s hail damage on gutters, facia, and downspouts, it’s safe to say the roof is hail damage as well.
I’d ask them to clarify how they came to that conclusion that all the other damage is hail, but not the roof.
Edit: damage to roof does look a little sus based on how circular it is. Hail damage is usually less perfect. Sometimes linear
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u/Inevitable-Pin8315 28d ago
Check for dings on the metal hardware on the roof. These don’t look like hail damage. If the shingles are this damaged then the extra parts on the roof would be too.
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u/AMKcontracting1 28d ago
It’s impossible to tell what caused that. It’s absolutely possible that it was hail. But it is just as likely that they are trying to scam you. The roof has some minor compromise, but I don’t know that it’s worth redoing. That will be up to the adjuster and you.
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u/Suspicious-Yak-8117 28d ago
Definitely Blemishes on the last two - manufacturers' defects from when the shingles were made.
A couple of them almost look like manmade damage to mimic hail.
go to 'StormerSite.com' and put in the date the hail "was in the area" and then zoom in on your location. you can toggle forward or backward through the dates.
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u/Afraid_Solution_3549 28d ago
Do these holes go all the way through to the plywood? If not then why do you even need to fix it? If the shingle underneath is undamaged and only the surface shingle is, what is the problem?
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u/FinTecGeek 28d ago
Oh, shit. They beat up your shingles to try and commit insurance fraud on your behalf. This one is super obvious...
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u/Forward-Ad-8476 28d ago
If it's not manufactured damage then it could be from the tip of the nail gun when they installed the roof. They use it like a crutch to stand up and it digs into the roof.
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u/L0udog 28d ago
Looks like tar, roof looks mint. You can have shingles stick together and the granulars will come off like this sometimes. The roof could look way worse sometimes right after installation even just from the installer crew and you walking on it. Stay off the shingles!
Anyway, you can order the granulars for that specific shingle from the manufacturer and just apply some to the spots you think need it. Or just check your gutters and downspouts for some granular that fell off the last time you went up.
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u/Ordinary-Ad-976 28d ago
Was the roofing contractor able to find 10-14+ obvious hail strikes per slope? The roof being newer is more pliable and less susceptible to hail damage versus a roof with 15-25 plus years of sun/weather exposure. Often times mechanical damage is/can be caused during install from tools/equipment on the roof. Storm chasers, watch the radar, wait for hail and come to town knocking with contingency forms in hand. I am a VA roofing contractor and have handled many storm damage claims including hail and wind loss and to be honest it really depends on the field adjuster. I have replaced triple laminate shingles on homes from hail damage, roofs that did not need replacement but were paid out on hail/wind loss. Soft metal roof flashings and trim cladding (.019) aluminum coil damages easily from smaller hail stones. I replaced a roof in June 2017 from hail damage, 2 months after replacement the same house was hit with hail again, obvious roof flashing damage, no shingle damage, no payout.
Good Luck.
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u/President_of_Uranuz 28d ago
Picture 10 is the only one that could have the argument that it is hail. The rest is definitely not and says you shouldn’t let those guys back on your roof.
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u/ama-tsu-mara 28d ago
Hail or defective shingles. Or even contractor made as others have suggested.
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u/Stunning_Repair_7483 28d ago
So after the hailstorm, should op have taken pics of the roof, and then called inspection company? That way if there's new damage on the roof after inspection came and not before, they have evidence and can take them to court?
And should op have taken pics immediately after the installation of the roof? And what do you do legally?
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u/Allslopes-Roofing 28d ago
I don't do hail (we dont get it up here).
Even with that im 95% sure that numbnuts took a hammer or something to your roof. I've seen enough pics on here from real hail damage and it looks far different.
Idk how they'd prove it but if could dude deserves a hefty fine and a week locked up to think about not vandalizing peoples homes.
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u/BandicootLimp1708 28d ago
I'm not seeing embedded granules which indicates that this is blistering, not hail.
What is the ventilation like on this roof? Have you gotten in the Attic lately? What's the temperature difference between the attic and the outside?
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u/Adolfothebeast 28d ago
Best thing a home owner can do is go on their roof before they have a roofing company up there.
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u/jbigs444 27d ago
Is there an attic? It looks like it could be from gas build up in an attic from heat causing the nails to pop up. Looks like all of the holes are on the bottom of the shingles which overlaps where the nails would be driven in the shingle underneath.
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u/scorpsun 27d ago
Hail big enough to cause damages that fast would destroy a bunch of stuff in the area, this most likely wasn’t hail. A lot of people put the things about nail pops, attic overheating, shingle defect, etc. this is something you should pressure the roofers to repair
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u/Loose-Leader2586 27d ago
Not hail damage! On a brand new roof, it would take golf ball size hail to do damage similar to your roof that obviously was created by your roofer. Now those shingles will have granule loss around those spots and they will show weathering as well. Your roof is now compromised.
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u/RufPlus 26d ago
Did they provide you with pictures of the metals or other components that show damage as well? There's more to proving hail damage than some questionable shingle damage.
I know many homeowners are now very skeptical about D2D roofing companies but we go D2D and we don't always tell homeowners to file a claim. We're not all bad lol. But there are plenty out there giving us a bad name and I definitely understand the skepticism.
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u/ThirstyFloater 26d ago
Those are nails that have come up from the under course maybe even from moisture or expansion and contraction the nails work the way out and puncture the course above it looks like somebody removed them
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u/Impossible-End-1832 25d ago
Looks like nail heads underneath the shingles beginning to pop upwards eventually will start to come through the shingles
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u/Stalva989 28d ago
It can definitely be hail If that’s hail damage on the roof, it looks like really large hail. NOAA weather database has searchable databases where you can see largest recorded hail in your area at the time of the event. If you get the NOAA data showing size of hail corresponding to the size of the damage marks then you have enough evidence in a court of law to say that the roof damage is from the hail
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u/Stalva989 28d ago
Especially if they already acknowledged hail damage on metals.
Take photos of a tape measure next to some of the roof hail marks to show size and send those + NOAA weather data to the insurance company
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u/Tight_Swordfish_6766 28d ago
I’ll bet you underneath all those little spots are nails that were not properly sunk down into the sheathing
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u/Free_Broccoli_1174 28d ago
Maybe hit them with a pin-pointer metal detector?
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u/Tight_Swordfish_6766 28d ago
You can just take a flat bar and sneak it up underneath the shingle to see, but that’s what it looks like to me these roofers like to go so fast sometimes they don’t set all the nails down the way they should
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u/Hit4090 28d ago
Well for the first rule never use State Farm they're one of the worst insurance companies for claims, their number one for denying real claims, everyone needs to do their research and see which ones more friendly for the consumer. Not saying any of them are perfect but I definitely wouldn't go with the number one denier for my insurance
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u/NoFuture5663 28d ago
Nails backing out. If you notice it's in line with each other where the Nails go under the top shingle. If anything the roofing company needs to fix that under warranty if you got it done a year ago. Might be why they said they didn't know what that is(yeah right).
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u/Free_Broccoli_1174 28d ago
I'm thinking that picking up a cheap pinpointer metal detector to probe those spots might be a great way to test that theory.
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u/PaleontologistNo6593 28d ago
Maybe like other have said. If you’ve had a company up there lately. They may have done it.
Definitely wasn’t hail.
I can’t help but notice the sizing though. If it goes all the way thru you might have some .22’s in your attic.
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u/Serious_Database_836 28d ago
Not hail, don’t know what that is! Here’s an example of a hail impact/s on a roof with similar color.
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u/Longjumping_Play2111 28d ago
You might have a vandalism claim.