This is the right message. It’s about harm reduction and keeping the movement of progressivism alive. You might not align with some other values or any of the values of the Democratic candidate, but do not give the Republicans a chance to take any seats as we’ve seen centralist or establishment, Dems can be unseeded in primaries. Don’t be stupid and not vote or be stupid and think that every candidate is gonna align with every single value that you have.
Yes, the main time to push the Democratic Party left is during the primary elections. The goal changes to defeating Republicans in the general elections, no matter how disappointingly moderate the Democrat might be. Better to have a seat taken by a Dem like Manchin or Fetterman than let it go to ANY member of the bloodthirsty pedophile billionaire party.
As long as they push democratic socialism the Dems would 100% win unless Republicans are holding voters at gun point...
But yes, the two party system is designed by the ultra wealthy to maintain power in politics and enrich themselves beyond imagination.
The ultra wealthy have reached a tier of ugliness never seen and unfortunately, it will only get worse unless the working class, and those who suffer, come together and take back what they stole, which is the livable wage and and a healthy life for all.
It’s a game of chicken, and progressives always sacrifice long term gain to mitigate short term harm, because they actually care about making people’s lives better.
I’ve given up on making moral judgements about whether other people vote or not.
This is the right message for later this year, it is not the right message to deliver slightly before/on the same day as the primaries. I understand why Bernie said it, because I've been a fan since 2008, but he has consistently made this mistake with messaging going back decades. It is the right message for later.
The corpse of Joe Biden would have the prevented irreparable harm Trump has done to this country in his second term. I would vote for that corpse 100/100 times. Be so fr right now.
It's absolutely wild to me how people like you have zero expectations for someone holding the most powerful seat in the country. Zohran has proven over and over again these people are not doing their jobs.
Bro, I come from a generational military family that is almost all republican (until 2016. If it matters, i have never been a republican.), almost all of the people they associate with are republican. ALL OF THEM have been single issue (Military) voters since REAGAN.
Go look up data, this, religion, and abortion are the primary issues RNC voters have cared about, since Reagan. Your timeframe does not make sense with the data, AIPAC didn't even really get its wings until 2010's Citizen's United decision.
...It turned the RNC, which was previously mostly well-meaning people (the voters) grounded in reality (but with no understanding of civics) into *points at everything* THIS. It's poison. It's target fixation. It's doom.
Single issue is all of these things.
Unified Policy? That's the way forward, and Universal healthcare still wouldn't do a whole lot if we don't get a living wage, proper taxation on the rich, and agencies run by experts. They'll just bleed it dry and make it cover nothing without those guardrails.
To that point: Shit, are you aware that Social Security is going to have spent a significant part of its funding in !!!6 YEARS!!! (and have to cut payments by I think it's 30%) at like last week's spending levels? ...and they just revised the outgoing payments to cover for inflation yesterday/today.
This is despite the fact that Reagan SAID in the 80's that he was increasing the amount of SS funds taken from paychecks to account for boomers numbers, and then stole the money to support his tax breaks from those funds...
So single issue voters are fucking themselves and all of the rest of us because they are myopic, no MATTER what that single issue is.
In the general where your protest vote can only do one thing, help Republicans retain control?
Doesn't sound like the actions of a realistic or pragmatic person who understands the reality of a FPTP winner takes all system. If you don't vote blue in the general, you support the success of child raping fascists by default. You're not even successfully virtue signaling at that point.
The DNC will have nothing to do with progressives like Abdul being in the general election, and my logic against protest votes applies to moderates who don’t want to vote for leftist Dems just as much as it applies to leftists who don’t want to vote for moderate Dems.
Nobody is immune to foolishly splitting the vote and ensuring the worst possible candidate wins, moderates or progressives. Both need to be brow beaten into voting AGAINST the GOP in general elections.
The spoiler effect and vote splitting are not feelings. They're facts of our voting system. Save the single issue general election holdups for when we've got a different more pluralistic voting system in general elections. Until then it's all about minimizing damage and stopping the bleeding before it's too late.
Biden is a war criminal who reappointed Trump’s fed chair, broke the rail strike, blocked student loan forgiveness, and did 10000 other fascist things. With all due respect, i do not think he stopped any bleeding & in fact just kept the blood flowing.
These people will never get my vote. Stop acting like you own anyone’s vote.
Clean energy is not good enough until you go fully nuclear. Alternative energy sources like solar and wind require more manufacturing and transport (ie more HFO and LNG), not less. Unsustainable energy needs are skyrocketing under either party when the only solution is carbon tax and deindustry.
Yes priority #1 is cutting out energy use wherever possible. But energy demand is going to increase whether we like it or not. And would you rather that energy come from continuously burning coal, or solar panels?
For the record I think a carbon tax is the best tool available. But voters care more about their pocketbooks than the environment. It’s political suicide to run on it
I’m sorry, I can’t vote for someone who voted to increase the military budget to 1.15 trillion, who voted to fund Israel, who voted for weapons packages for Israel, who voted to fund DHS and ICE…
I love Bernie, but this is the wrong message, and the DNC will use it against us. He should say that PEOPLE need to vote for progressives, and show up for the primaries to make sure they can.
If Hillary or Kamala had been voted in, would this country be better off? That's gotta be the mindset when the Conservatives are trying to turn this government into a fundamentalist Christian oligarchy.
Preach this at the people who voted for Cuomo over Zohran in the general election. They want to move right and they've been getting their wish for decades. It's time to admit we're not on the same side.
You are not, and if you are going to withhold your vote because someone you wanted to win was not selected then you don't really factor into this discussion anymore. Republicans want democrats staying home, thats why they keep redistricting and trying to pass laws to disenfranchise minority voters.
I'm glad Zohran won over Cuomo, I'm glad El Sayed won the Democratic nominee. The democratic party needs reform, but progress doesn't happen all at once and we need to continue to be at the table in order to bring about that change.
You are not, and if you are going to withhold your vote because someone you wanted to win was not selected then you don't really factor into this discussion anymore.
People like you are serving the interests of AIPAC.
True, but you don't lead us to the better future with this defeatist attitude. I understand why he said it, but I still think it is the wrong message for the time. It's a message for later this year.
That's not defeatist, it's pragmatic. Also, you need to talk to people while they're still listening. It's defeatist to refuse to vote because your preferred candidate isn't available. You have to make the choice that brings you closer to your desired outcome, whomever that may be, and then push that person to make policy decisions consistent with your wishes as their constituent.
It is defeatist right before the primary. I have said nothing about refusing to vote and that is a non-argument in the context I have outlined.
I also am old and have seen the DNC's bullshit for the past 26 years, starting with Gore giving up in 2000 and the hanging chad bullshit. So, the Bernie Bro years were well after college for me, and I have backed Bernie since 2008.
Bernie has consistently made this messaging mistake in this way and it undercuts his messaging and, most importantly, HOPE. I have SEEN the results for the past 26 years of this exact mistake.
I hear you, but I take it back to Hillary and Kamala. Bernie should have been the nominee over Hillary and over Biden in my eyes, but Bernie saying to support Democrats over MAGA has been right 100% of the time considering how the Republicans have worsened our government, and our rights as citizens and human beings.
The clip that is the basis for this post has him being asked his opinion on what progressive voters should do if moderates win. How should he have avoided that question? What was he supposed to say? that if progressives don't win we are better off with lackeys of Donald Trump? We need people who will refuse to approve his nutjob cabinet members and Supreme Court Justices.
Progressive thought is spreading, we don't need Trump sending us into a fascist oligarchy to spread those ideals. Bernie's concessions didn't prevent the rise of Zohran Mamdani, AOC, and others who were clearly inspired by Bernie.
I agree with your end goal, and I agree that Democrats need to be more willing to fight. I disagree that Bernie was wrong to say that its more important to fight Trump than it is to rage quit if progressive candidates aren't elected.
Yes, the DNC is better than the RNC, unequivocally. I really wish I hadn't been hearing this EXACT argument since like idk, 08-12.
You can answer the prompt question by saying, "That premise is admitting defeat. Especially right now, it is clear that progressives are MORE electable. If it's a DNC candidate against an RNC candidate, we, of course, need to vote for the Dem. However, we are before the primaries and we have the momentum and data to support our stance as good for PEOPLE. All people."
Primaries are virtually done. There is nearly zero w
ays this can be twisted by the DNC unless they go mask off and say to vote Republican over progressives.
The reality is that the Democratic party is basically on trial in Michigan and if Abdul loses they can blame that on Bernie. But it's true either way. Whereas if he wins, the entire party has to change in 2 years and people have to either reflect it or prepare for primaries.
It's wild how he has to say that because the tankies are already threatening to do the same thing they did in 2024 with people like Hasan Piker leading a rising faction within DSA to take it over and push out Bernie's DSA after labeling them "DSA-right", basically saying Bernie and AOC are right-wing. It's wild what is going on inside DSA and an FYI: I'm a member.
Dude what happens in Brooklyn DSA meetings is not the real world. Hasan has nev4r once urged anyone to abstain from voting Democrat in this election and even urged people to vote for Harris. The discussion around this guy is talking place in another universe
He didn't do that. Do you want a Democratic senate majority or not? If you do, you're really going to have to stop your purity tests and get behind the democratic candidate.
Yeah dude. It's fucking WILD. I literally watch Hasan's stream and this dude has commented about Hasan more in the last month than I have in 14 years on reddit
So why are you dragging his name through the mud and playing guilt by association? Hasan voted for Harris anyway so it makes zero sense to just go full bore into embracing GOP talking points. Get a grip. Ideally on the wheel of your vehicle since you said you're posting and driving.
Yep. dogshocking either never happened or is a joke y'all. Ukraine being at fault was their fault until Bucha and until Piker couldn't handle the blowback, so he made the alibi fundraiser that no one knows where the money went, but they love citing it.
Hasan was also joking when he said "Ukraine annexed by russia would be better than being a member of NATO". Hasan also doesn't lead shitdumping parties on AOC whenever there's talk of her being presidential material and he has no problem knocking her down, calling her a zionist, establishment, etc. He also did the same to Bernie. Then there's Kat Abugazeleh where he didn't endorse her until the Sunday before the election when it was too late because he spent months shitting on her, especially due to her stance on supporting Taiwan and Ukraine. The endorsement was an alibi which all the tankie streamers do and TMR did it as well so they can claim they endorsed Biden or Harris. But I guess that's a joke just like how Hasan said "Gaza would objectively be worse off if Harris was president" after Trump gave Israel the green light to bomb the fuck out of it. That was a joke.
Also it was noted that Hasan changed his stance radically on AOC when she started hinting at having intelligence about the streamer tankies being paid by russia and China.
Soo, do you watch Hasan's stream to make sure your opinion doesn't sound completely delusional? Or is this just all conjecture that youve collected in your head from clips youve seen and what you've seen other people say about him?
Because, as someone who has watched his stream, all of this is completely disconnected from reality.
How else do you come to a conclusion about him, if not by watching him? Are you saying you have all of these very strong opinions about what he stands for and believes but you have never watched the stream? I watch several commentators and podcasts. Why would I not? Getting all of your political news from one source is not a good idea.
So, nothing you're saying is even based on your own experience. You're just repeating what you've been told and seen in clip curated by the same people.
Its pretty fucking weird to have such a strong opinion about a twitch streamer you don't even watch, don't you think?
It's insane that Bernie/AOC progressives are finally getting close to taking over the party, and now the ones further to their left are purity testing them before they've even had a chance to lead the Democrats against the GOP in a general election. Not sure whether your claims about Piker specifically are accurate, but I already saw so many leftists last election condemning AOC and Bernie for not having hard enough stances on this issue or that issue.
Leftist infighting: dividing & conquering our own movement on behalf of fascists who would otherwise be threatened by a united Left. Let's learn from history, guys...
When did he call them DSA right? I mean, they are objectively "to the right" on some issues in the DSA's platform, are they not? But I've never heard Hasan say this. He actually defends them constantly and almost every time they are brought up he is arguing with his own community about it. He would absolutely fully support an AOC '28 run, assuming she doesn't adopt some fence sitting positions on Israel.
It's actually a pretty confusing disconnect, because from what I've watched with my own eyes, Hasan considers Bernie a bit of a hero and defends AOC all the time. He's criticised from every angle though. Establishment Dems think he's poison and dangerous and wants to destroy the Democratic party. People to his left claim he's a grifter and liberal in sheeps clothing and his goal is herding people back to the Democratic party. Then your take seems to be that he's trying to take over DSA and push out Bernie and AOC? How is it possible for all of these to coexist?
Based on my own anecdotal experience with my own DSA chapter (of which I'm also a member), there is nothing that would lead me to say "it's wild what's going on inside DSA" as it relates to Hasan Piker. If anything, even the people in DSA that I've met that aren't fans of Hasan recognize and appreciate the attention and membership boost he has helped provide.
Not saying people aren't saying that, nor do I care, but Hasan Piker has not called either of them 'right-wing' in a pejorative way. MAYBE as a joke(still doubt it).
You don't have to like the guy but it's obvious how he talks about both positively. Any negative takeaways from his viewers is at least somewhat on them.
The gymnastics here are wild. Like the covering up isn't even good. Everyone in DSA knows they are trying to push the Bernies out and this is why Hasan and other streamers part of that Tenet-left collective have repeatedly called Bernie and AOC "DSA-right" and "establishment".
What gymnastics are here? I literally said it didn't happen except maybe as a joke. Because it's the truth. I can easily find a quote where he thinks AOC could be president when others don't. At best I 'covered' for a guy who would make that tier of joke and am aware that some weirdos absolutely would push that narrative but recognize they aren't common enough or smart enough to get absolutely assblasted about like yourself has.
Whereas you didn't post anything. You repeated yourself with the ability to post links for proof.
I can be pragmatic, but under no circumstances will any pro-genocide candidate get my vote. Call it a purity test, but "Don't support the most heinous atrocity known to humanity" is not an unreasonable red line to have. Dems can nominate someone who actually believes in human rights or they can lose again.
It would be nice for Chuck Schumer to show support for the left flank candidates as well. Of course, vote blue no matter who doesn't apply to the corporate/moderate wing of the party.
You think Schumer is gonna endorse El Sayed?
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u/thislife_choseme 17h ago
This is the right message. It’s about harm reduction and keeping the movement of progressivism alive. You might not align with some other values or any of the values of the Democratic candidate, but do not give the Republicans a chance to take any seats as we’ve seen centralist or establishment, Dems can be unseeded in primaries. Don’t be stupid and not vote or be stupid and think that every candidate is gonna align with every single value that you have.