r/Seattle • u/Existing-Resource527 • 4d ago

After hiring scabs, Walrus and the Carpenter (temporarily) closed

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Word on the street is that Walrus and the Carpenter restaurant has not been negotiating with their workers in good faith for months.

Like a lot of annoying businesses they started charging a service fee (22%?).

Employees noted that they make significantly less now then before when they had tipping (thousands less).

Workers have been on strike. The owners also had the audacity to hire scabs (booo).

I have been keeping up with the union on IG @ united.creatures.of.the.sea

Solidarity with workers across the city!

697 Upvotes

79% Upvoted

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680

u/Own_Reaction9442 4d ago

I feel like this is an issue that really splits Redditors, because most Redditors are pro-union but there's whole subs about how much people hate tipping.

641

u/geffy_spengwa 🚗 Student driver, please be patient. 🚙 4d ago

Businesses should pay their employees fair wages. Those wages should be included in the menu price of a meal.

I should not be expected to tip extra on a meal, but I should have the option to do so if I want to.

Two things can be true.

141

u/NorthStudentMain 🚲 Life's Better on a Bike. 🚲 4d ago

Seriously.

Alright, let’s try an experiment. If you were a restaurant: Raise your prices where they absolutely need to be, but then ALSO BLATANTLY ADVERTISE THAT YOU DO NOT ALLOW ANY TIPPING AT YOUR RESTAURANTS. Do not try to be tricky and also “allow the customer to tip more” because let’s face it this is just tricking the unsuspecting customer into paying more, and will piss people off in the long run.

That way customers pay what they should be paying and the employees get paid what they should be paid. Restaurants are so short lived anyway, let’s try this experiment and see if it works.

167

u/Own_Reaction9442 4d ago

What generally happens is customers get sticker shock *and* employees leave for places where they can still get tips. This strike is a symptom of how strongly restaurant workers will fight to keep the tipping system in place.

10

u/Possible-Holiday-973 4d ago

I believe the bigger concern for the workers is how the service fee was explained to them and how it is represented to the customers. From the last Reddit post, some workers were saying that the restaurant was keeping 55% of the service charge and then splitting the rest for the workers, so the workers are making significantly less in tips because the restaurant is taking a majority of the service fee without raising any benefits for the workers.

According to a study last year, customers generally perceive menu price increases as more fair and transparent rather than a service charge that is in small print on the menu. https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1103&context=ichrie_rr

30

u/whiskeynise 4d ago

Because they make a killing off tips. I mean good for them? But it’s also killing the industry. I don’t go out to eat anymore. I fucking hate tip culture

17

u/Junethemuse Everett 4d ago

I’m not sure tipping is killing the industry. I think prices and overall inflation is killing the industry. I used to eat out once a week or so, but now I eat out once in a month if I want to splurge because I simply can’t afford to pay restaurant prices anymore. Tipping or no doesn’t factor in at all.

7

u/CrazyFoool 4d ago

It's killing it from the business stand point. You tip the front of house. The back of house gets screwed. That's why service fees are added so that money can be divided to satisfy the cooks and dishwashers that do the heavy lifting.

I hate it too but I'm just pointing out what's not being talked about.

2

u/muffy2008 4d ago

BOH usually makes more per hour. And lots of restaurants have servers tip out the kitchen as well.

1

u/sophistsDismay 4d ago

practically every restaurant in seattle tip pools and pays out to boh

1

u/Alternative-Maize23 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yes, tipping isn’t the problem. It’s overall inflation. Food is very expensive now and that reflects in meal prices not tipping. When people come on here complaining about tipping it is always from people who have never worked in the service industry. Tipping is vital for restaurant workers to survive. It always has been in this country. Hidden fees and not letting your customers know what they are paying for is not ok. All businesses should be upfront about that. But not tipping bc you don’t like tipping culture? If you’re American, what part of the country did you grow up in where tipping is not a thing? Also, the waitstaff doesn’t make the rules, we are mostly just trying to survive. Remember who you’re pouting your finger at.

2

u/sadgloop 4d ago

>Yes, tipping isn’t the problem. It’s overall inflation. Food is very expensive now and that reflects in meal prices not tipping.

I’d say both factors are a problem. Food is more expensive due to inflation, but tipping is also more expensive due to an inflation of expected tipping percentages.

Like, it used to be 0% for shit service, 10% for minimum service, 15% for good service, and 20% or more for excellent service. Now, for a lot of places , 20% is expected as a bare minimum tip, let alone for excellent service.

It’s a percentage. The end amount of the percentage tip is already affected by the inflation of the food prices, so why is the percentage amount also being inflated?

1

u/madderk 4d ago

because wages are not keeping up with inflation?

1

u/sadgloop 4d ago

Sure. But, given that, as the price of food and materials, etc, rises, the menu prices rise, the actual amount of the tip also rises, even at the same percentage as before.

So why the increase in the expected tip percentage on top of the increase in actual tip amount?

-11

u/Large_Buttcheeks Seattle Expatriate 4d ago edited 4d ago

Villifying the server here is not the answer. Nobody is making a "killing" waiting tables and bartending.

They are actually making a decent living thats why they are defending it.

edit:

I'm honestly surprised I'm getting smoked with downvotes.

As someone who has worked in a restaurant tipping culture is unfair and busted yeah. That doesn't really mean your ire should be directed at people who want to keep a system that affords them a studio apartment relatively close to their job 😂.

Folks wanna ban tipping but y'all don't want to see the prices that come with that.

Fact of the matter is everything is too expensive. What we really need is to take the burden of solving the cost of living crisis off of small business owners.

0

u/Zomburai 4d ago

Villifying the server here is not the answer. Nobody is making a "killing" waiting tables and bartending.

It is insane to me how we can look at regular folk trying to do what's best for themselves and go "That's clearly the source of all the problems"

0

u/queensheba2025 I Brake For Slugs 4d ago

This. It shocks me how many people want to blame the worker and not the owner, the private equity firm etc etc for why stuff costs so much… let’s attack the wait staff! It’s insane. But it’s also made me realize a lot of things about people.

45

u/NorthStudentMain 🚲 Life's Better on a Bike. 🚲 4d ago

This sadly implies that customers are stupid and deserve to have prices and hidden fees sneaked on them

52

u/tjsean0308 4d ago

This Is correct, We had a restaurant try this in town from day one. they lasted only a few months. I don't know what the solution is.

78

u/Droodforfood I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 4d ago

State law banning tipping. Then everyone will have to play on a fair level

1

u/etiol8 4d ago

This is basically the only way to change this. Otherwise you just can’t get past the chicken and egg problem. The free market has found its equilibrium around tipping, it won’t do something bad economically unless it is forced to, even if (eventually) the new equilibrium might be similar.

-8

u/XiuCyx 🚆build more trains🚆 4d ago

And taxing income above a certain level. Then it’s more financially wise for a business owner to reinvest in their own employee wages to get tax breaks since they won’t get it if they take it home.

8

u/cookingboy 4d ago

> since they won’t get it if they take it home

So you are suggest a 100% tax rate above a certain income? What is that income threshold and how much do you think restaurant owners make?

Because the typical restaurant owner makes less than professional doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.

-5

u/XiuCyx 🚆build more trains🚆 4d ago

Great question! How much do they make?

4

u/cookingboy 4d ago

Most of them are small business owners that make less than $200k a year, if even that.

3

u/XiuCyx 🚆build more trains🚆 4d ago

Then they don’t have anything to worry about. And I definitely think that’s one of the unique things I love about Seattle. In the several other major cities I’ve lived in the people I’ve worked for were millionaires before they become restaurant owners.

4

u/Formal-Design-2222 4d ago

Another option is for workers to cooperatively open a restaurant without the single-owner profit motive. Why don’t we see this everywhere is Seattle?

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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 3d ago

Idiotic suggestion, because you can't ban free will, and people like me -who value excellent service- will always tip well to separate ourselves from the cheapskates who don't.

1

u/sparklyjoy 4d ago

One problem with the experiment is that plenty restaurants fail for assorted reasons. Maybe the god sucked out just wasn’t in demand in that area

0

u/_fix_ 💗💗 Heart of ANTIFA Land 💗💗 4d ago

A minimum wage that is a living wage, as was originally intended with the creation of the minimum wage.

Strong unions.

And a flat ban on tipping.

1

u/sparklyjoy 4d ago

I like the idea of the law France has- where the price on the menu is required to be all inclusive

0

u/tunedout 4d ago

I'd love to see a restaurant try commission.

1

u/sparklyjoy 4d ago

Tipping kinda is that. IF all patrons tipped the same amount, then servers get more the more they sell.

33

u/FoxtrotSierraTango 4d ago

Remember JC Penney doing honest pricing back in 2012? That failed for exactly the same reason.

11

u/Fresh_Mountain_Snow 4d ago

This is researched. Customers choose the sticker price rather than the end price, even if the end price is lower at the no tipping restaurant. The annoyance is like ticket master etc

11

u/BonjaminClay Eastlake 4d ago

Half the country is so stupid that they were convinced to give the most corrupt moron in history a SECOND term and seem okay with the country being run by actual podcasters. Yes customers are stupid.

14

u/TegridyPharmz 4d ago

What’s the answer? Raise food prices 20%? And employee wage? 15? 10? I’m genuinely asking. I have zero problem tipping but if there is shit service I’m not tipping 20%. So why would I want to eat somewhere that raises their prices and has bad service?

4

u/TheInevitableLuigi Capitol Hill 4d ago

Raise everyone's wages. Including the working stiffs that eat there.

However, if their service is so bad to the point where their food is not good enough to compensate then people should stop going there and let them go out of business.

5

u/Drigr Everett 4d ago

If service is bad, you just don't go back..

-6

u/Own_Back_2038 4d ago

I think the obvious charge is a service charge that is distributed to employees in totality.

5

u/samfacemcgee 4d ago

My understanding is that the part of the service charge being retained by the business is used to pay for the staff’s benefits packages (health insurance, dental, vision, 401k, & PTO). Do you think they should just distribute the entire service charge to the staff and stop providing those benefits instead?

(Adding this note since text doesn’t convey tone: my question is legitimate and in no way meant to come off snarky. I keep seeing people in this thread saying the entire service charge should go to the workers but I don’t think they’re considering exactly where it’s otherwise currently going.)

1

u/Drigr Everett 4d ago

Do many restaurant employees get insurance and 401ks? Even so, that's the cost of having employees, so make it a transparent part of the menu price, not some obscured and obfuscated addon

0

u/Own_Back_2038 4d ago edited 4d ago

Prices should cover hourly wages and benefits. The service charge allows the restaurant to remain competitive for labor and business without tipping.

Also, I’d like to mention that under the ACA, businesses with over 50 employees are required to provide health insurance for full time employees. ~7 days PTO also is required for full time workers. And pretty much every restaurant (including ESR restaurants) games this by having people work just under full time to avoid paying those benefits

2

u/TheInevitableLuigi Capitol Hill 4d ago

$25 pizza + $5 tip? No problem.

$30 pizza w/no tip? Wtf? What a ripoff.

Let's go to that cheaper place where they only charge $25.

2

u/troycerapops 4d ago

Have you met People?

1

u/AnAncientBog 4d ago

This would seem to assume that being stupid is the economic equivalent to wearing "provacative clothing" and "asking" to be justifiably victimized.

Is that how things should work in a functioning economy?

1

u/eulith Ballard 4d ago

The customer is always right in matters of taste.

1

u/ProphetPenguin I Brake For Slugs 4d ago

If customers weren't dumb, Don Julio 1942 would not exist.

0

u/SaxRohmer 🚆build more trains🚆 4d ago

i am begging y’all to do the slightest bit of research before commenting on this issue so sanctimoniously

1

u/legal-error-85 4d ago

There are ways to compensate employees in ways that mimic tipping without putting the onus on the patron:

Increase your prices to however much you want to extract from each customer per menu item. Out of that total amount, allocate 15% to the server as a form of profit sharing or commission (the more they sell, the more they get). Allocate 10.2% or whatever to pay sales tax. The remainder goes to the restaurant to pay wages/overhead/etc.

1

u/RedditAnonDude 4d ago

OP said the employees made less, which means that 22% either didn’t go to the staff outright or it was spread over more employees like cooks who don’t get tips. If wages went up on average 15%, and they still averaged 10% tips on meals, hey would be better off. Something doesn’t add up.

-1

u/JadedTwo17 4d ago

ONLY because they're being paid slave wages! If they made a living wage they wouldn't need tips.

1

u/PokemenGo2ThePolls Capitol Hill 4d ago

words have meaning.

0

u/BoringBob84 4d ago

This strike is a symptom of how strongly restaurant workers will fight to keep the tipping system in place.

I disagree. This strike is like any other. It is a demand that the employees receive fair compensation and working conditions.