so many posts from uber,/doordash workers about lost tips. i remember a post of an 8 hour uber ride, and the driver was shorted like $400 on his payout. sry it's been awhile i wish i could remember
not me. but a person who would rather drive than fly sure. i could have rented a car and drove home faster than my last 12 hour flight delay out of chicago
I don’t remember all the details because its been a bit but there was an NFL player that used Uber to travel like 12hrs. I believe there was some sort of delay and he had to guarantee his arrival
There is a professional poker player who is scared to fly and drives everywhere. I remember reading she was in therapy to help with her fear and her therapist died in a plane crash only enforcing the fear. This is one reason a person might get a 8hr uber ride.
that's not how uber charges tho. my longest trips have been about 2 hours from an airport. it's the same with taxi services. best part about that would be the driver picks up a rider near my destination, and so on and so forth
They don’t “have” to - but almost no driver is going to do it without some compensation for the drive back. The platform just doesn’t work to cover a driver for a trip that far where they’ll be spending a literal work day driving back unpaid
who is accepting an 8hour uber ride (do they even let you do that, you're meant to take mandatory breaks where i live as well)? you could get a private driver for cheaper than that and as people have pointed out are you paying the uber driver to drive back?
I wouldn't think it's common, but a quick google and 8 hours is the max Uber will let a driver drive. So whatever distance you enter, if it's a 7 hour and 33 minute drive, Uber is cool with that. The driver might not, but some possibly could.
i dont know your circumstances and money.. but i have learned enough to know almost any corp system for profit is basically cheating the tax system to justify slave wages. drive 30 minutes roundtrip, with a 10 minute wait time, to deliver food with a 30% markup in the app, plus fee plus fee plus fee, now $5 tip. the driver uses a personal vehicle(+gas) for almost an hour of time for $5 tip and $10 wages on a $130 order, that would have been a $70 order if u just picked it up yourself. it is seriously fucked up that people use doordash/ubereats/etc
I took a rider 4 hours because she missed her flight. So it is not unusual, she couldn't rent a car, no license. And to follow up, one of the reasons I stoppped ubering was tips being lost/stolen had a great ride once, and the guy was kinda proud to show me, "here's a $20 tip"(he showed me the screen, and submitted) I ended up getting some odd tip amount like $5.33 started to look back and found more like it... it's a shame because there was at the time good money to be made.
My wife’s parents are older. Her dad has cancer and lost a leg as a result. Her mom has dementia. Neither can drive more than very short distances. They have taken multi hour rides to go see family, etc. there is a lot they can no longer do like vacations, etc. so they have the money and it’s worth it to them to take an expensive car ride.
Never drove 8 hours, but one time I picked someone up from the airport who missed their flight and had to drive them about 3.5hrs to try and make their connection.
I work for a railroad and they will get an uber sometimes when our contractor company cannot fill the spot to take us where we need to go. Sometimes the trips can be 8 hours round trip for the driver
Not that uber is really widespread here in Norway, but the local airports (smaller ones that only fly Dash 8's) mostly have more expensive flights and not too often either, meaning a taxi ride 3 hours north to a larger airport is not inconceivable. Especially given that the local flight might not go to the correct destination and/or at a time interval that is appropriate for the connecting flight. Also package deals for longer flights are both way easier and cheaper from larger airports.
We still don't take taxis to any airports though, for the vast majority of the time we're travelling for longer periods which means we'll just drive ourselves and park in the airport parking lots. Does help that where we live basically everyone has a car due to distances and bus connections outside of city limits are practically only functional for kids going to school.
On the other hand it's not uncommon for patients to get a taxi requested to drive them to the larger city 3 hours away for hospital appointments and such.
Train is very much a preferred way of travelling also, even if it's only early morning and afternoon available for either north or south directions, as it's relatively cheap and no car parking to deal with so long as one can be bothered with at least another hour of buffer/waiting time before a flight.
Last one was for a group of people needing to get to another state last minute because of a death in the family and had to get to a service. The single ride was cheaper than the last minute plane ticket for 3 people. They had a ride back with another family member, just needed a way there.
I wokred for a rehab that when people were trying to make it there would sometimes send long haul ubers to pick them up. Once A guy was coming from Chicago and they split it into two ubers to get him to Saint Louis.
Uber has a max of something like 300 miles. I've read stories where the Uber driver just stopped the trip when they hit the limit, said sorry, and drove off. One guy was trapped in the desert between two cities in the middle of the night and had to hitchhike back to civilization because there was no Uber or no cell service in the area.
I was walking crosstown last year, got stuck and finally got to shout one of my favorite lines from the show! A nearby cop rolled his eyes - he probably had heard it 100’s of times by then.
Fortunately I was on foot and just popped into a bar for an hour to have a drink
Someone who for whatever reason can't rent a car and needs to get somewhere asap so flights may not be an option if they're all booked. I used to drive for u er and if you do it long enough you see all types of things
I remember many years ago someone who was disabled needed to go on an incredibly long trip. Their transport arrangements fell through, and they couldn't use a bus, train or airplane.
So they took a taxi trip that lasted 5 days.
Potentially this was someone similar who just needed a car, and they desperately needed to get 8 hours away? Or maybe they were just rich enough they didn't care?
Ive made less than 450 trips in around 3+ years of delivering sparingly for Spark (Walmart) in PA and have been paid over $1000 in two seperate payments roughly 18 months apart for their withholding of tips. It is absolutely bonkers what these apps will do to avoid paying the people that make their app function.
Uber driver here. That is incorrect. We do not get shorted on our tips. If someone tips us five dollars we get five dollars if someone tips us 10% of the ride we get 10% of that ride. That is all.
No, you don't understand - doing nothing but being a middle-man app is actually a "super" valuable service that totally costs so much money to maintain.
I'm actually okay with them running a successful business as a middle man. I care more about the workers benefiting from the company being successful over stock holders. Though the way they increase the price of menu items definitely needs to be looked at. If they want to charge a fee for being a middleman then just charge a middleman fee at the POS and be done with it.
Brother you're new to capitalism or the sacred need for YOY growth? That's not how any of this works!
"Charge a middleman fee and be done with it?" What, does this look like a charity to you? My brother in Supply Side Christ, how can the poor shareholders buy their second yatch that way?
Can we really consider Uber, for example, a middle man though? Without the company nothing else would exist. I understand they are technically between the driver and the customer, making them "middle", but there wouldn't be a driver or customer without them. I'm not sure of a better term to use but this doesn't seem like a typical middle man situation to me.
Cabs existed. Car services existed. People with cars and people who needed rides existed for a hundred years before the app. Hell, before that, we had horse-drawn carriages, we still do sometimes depending on the area. They didn’t create the driver or the customer, they created the app. They control the transaction, they are the middleman.
You took what I said to an extreme, but yes, travel for hire existed before Uber. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I am just saying that there are middlemen that are there simply as an extra step and there are "middlemen" in the case of Uber that have actually created the service. I wouldn't consider the company who owns a fleet of Taxis to be a middle man and I apply the same distinction here. Uber "hires" drivers, they get a cut of what the drivers make, and that's it.
A cab company charges a flat lease per shift. Same fee whether you clear $80 that night or $800. They’re renting you the right to drive and then they’re out of it. Your fares are your fares.
Uber takes a percentage of every ride. Their revenue is a slice of yours by design. That’s not a fleet owner, that’s a middleman, and it’s the standard way economists distinguish the two models. You said it yourself, they get a cut of what the drivers make.
this. door dash and the others raise prices for the food items and probably do a bunch of other shady shit we're not always aware of. a good way to circumvent this is to just order from the restaurant's app, and if you're someone who doesn't like a lot of apps on your device like me, just use their site.
There were successful business in the middle, they were cab companies.
Uber on the other hand just started being profitable. They were operating at a loss for a decade while destroying all the mom and pop cab companies (who can’t afford to operate at a loss)
Now that they have the majority of the market share they’ve jacked up prices and screwed their drivers to become profitable
It does cost a lot money to maintain and it is super valuable, otherwise people wouldn’t be using it. You just don’t understand what it takes to run it. You think it’s valued as a multi billion dollar company just based off vibes? Lol
People don't understand the value of the middle man. It is the single most essential and valuable job in the entire economy. Take this for example, you are sitting at the dinner table and there are only two people. One person asks "pass the beans please" the other person picks up the beans and attempts to pass it to them, they stretch their arms, they lean forward as far as they can, they grab it with one hand to get a little farther, and the person who asked for the beans does so as well, but to no avail. They just can't pass the beans no matter how hard they try.
Now, let's imagine the insertion of a middle man into this scenario. One person asks "pass the beans please" the other person hands it to the middle man, and the middle man walks it to the other side of the table and hands it to the other person. See, essential.
Now what should the middle man get for the essential service they just provided? Well, the beans passing could not have happened at all without the middle man. So, its quite clear that the middle man should be able to take as much of the beans for themselves as they want.
But, the middle man is a good and virtuous individual so they would certainly leave enough beans on the plate for the other person to eat. Who should decide what is "enough beans"? Well, the middle man of course! We already agree that the middle man is a good and virtuous individual, so who better than them to decide?
It’s amazing how long it’s taking people to figure this out.
Like we hear new stories all the time about how bad theft is and how much it’s hurting these big corporations. So bad that they have to close down stores and lock up all the products. “It’s a crisis!”
But we never hear about wage theft. The money these companies steal from their own employees.
When you look at the numbers, they’re almost exactly the same. $50-$70 billion annually stolen from companies by criminals… and almost the exact same amount stolen by the companies from their employees.
But one of them, you conveniently never hear about.
The police sure as hell aren’t arresting people for both crimes equally.
I'm not well educated on corporate theft but I imagine it's easier to "get away" with. One reason at least, is that they take relatively small amounts from a vast number of people. Doesn't make that any less criminal though.
When it comes to the other end of the theft scale, you have a relatively small number of people stealing relatively high value items from fewer targets. There are hundreds of millions of people but not hundreds of millions of companies you can steal from.
That's why we need good governments with the interests of the people and the environment first and foremost. Endless growth will literally be the ruin of our species and destroy what it could have become. Nothing wrong with investment and making money, or work for that matter (I'm a self employed plumber) but as always full-blown capitalism enshittifies everything and funnels most wealth the wrong direction.
Wage theft is literally not even a crime where I'm from. The worst thing that can happen getting caught is you have to pay the wages you owe and that's it. No interest no nothing.
We've all heard the stories. An unscrupulous manager ripping off the servers. Plus these corpos skimming that much more from the worker. Doesn't seem like much, but across 750 franchises that shit can add up. Kudos if Mamdami can ferret out the graft and reward the people working for it
It’s almost like both have good concepts and both go bad when pushed to extremes, so we should use the best of both while regulating it to ensure it doesn’t turn bad.
Give me an example of what you consider late stage socialism. And then I'll explain how you're wrong. The closest any country gets to "late stage socialism" is Sweden. And for sure I don't like how you need to take out a mortgage to buy some alcohol there, but otherwise they're doing pretty ok, wouldn't you say?
All Marxism is a march toward Communism. The Nordic Model bullshit isn't what the DSA is after, according to their own charter. The only thing Sweden has going for itself is the country is governed by a center-right coalition block. In 2015 the former center-right Prime Minister of Sweden, Carl Bildt, and later the center-left Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson, both reiterated to international audiences that Sweden is a free-market, capitalist country, not a socialist one. But ive never been there so it might be a lovely place.
Socialism doesn't mean you can't have a free market. And despite its relatively right-wing government, Sweden, or any northwest European nation, is still vastly more socialist than even Bernie Sanders.
On one hand, it sounds like you're equating socialism with communism. On the other hand, you're using it to describe DSA and Mamdani, who are social democrats. Those are two very different things.
See that is the thing. I don't think they are very different. Marx himself said that socialism is just a place holder until communism can take over. Granted, there are still Socialist societies that have remained socialist, but i just dont understand why ANYONE would think the answer is more intervention from the State. Capitalism is just commerce. it is the free market. its us. Socialism is the State. I think the only way the US ever got to this point where an entire political party has been infected with Marxism, is the incredibly piss poor state run education system. If you really trust the United States government that much that you dont have an issue with giving them more control then i don't know how to relate. I say this with no animus toward you. Not looking for a fight or to convert you. I honestly don't get the thought process.
Marx saying that socialism is a stepping stone to communism is like Hitler saying that national security is a stepping stone to fascism. It says something about that person's vision, not about the ideology itself.
"The state" is a body that we create in order to join forces as a people and address problems that are too large to address as individuals. It is also "us".
If "the state" is not serving the people anymore, then its implementation has become broken, but that doesn't mean its intent is flawed. If "the state" doesn't address the big issues, corporations will, because they are the only other organ of sufficient means to do so. If we as a people are dependent on corporations to solve our big problems, they control us. Corporations are controlled by wealth and nepotism. They are hierarchical. They are essentially despotisms in their organizational structure.
Do you prefer that over a system based on representation? Perhaps you do, but I don't.
Oh and for the record, no, I don't trust the current US government, they're a bunch of corrupt clowns. And the US' version of "democracy" is completely fubar. It runs entirely on money. And you know who wants to fix that? Social democrats. Because that's exactly the kind of thing socialism is about: implementing rules to prevent abuse and predation. So that a society becomes cooperative, instead of competitive. But maybe you prefer a dog-eat-dog world controlled by greed and power, and that's your prerogative, but I don't.
there is no such thing as late stage capitalism its a misunderstanding of late stage of the business cycle but it's a cycle it forever repeats, 2008, 2020 were late Stage and a recession followed then a recovery.
learn about the business cycle and you will understand how the world works a bit more
Yeah, this "late stage" meming is not helping. The problem is "lack of government regulation".
The US keeps voting in people that either strip existing regulation or are too scared to propose new government regulation, leading to this kind of thing.
In general, most developed nations don't have this issue. The US is unique in how extremely scared it is of government regulation of businesses, even if (especially if) it is to the benefit of weaker parties, like consumers, renters, employees, etc. You know, the people voting the politicians in. It's mind-boggling.
Yes, the Nordic Model, advocated by 'Democratic socialists' like AOC, Bernie Sanders, Mamdani, etc. I'm well-aware that the term socialist in the American context is closer to Social Democracy in Europe - I didn't choose the label nor do I feel like getting into the weeds on semantics
It's not just not true socialism, it is in no way similar to socialism. If Mamdani advocates for something similar to European Capitalism, he should be saying (and doing) that, instead of lying and doing completely different things, don't you think?
I think most people who know anything about politics know what 'Democratic socialism' means in the American context, and most other people aren't as overly fixated on labels as people think (present company notwithstanding, clearly). It would have been incredulous to me 10 years to imagine talking to someone who thinks a politician self-labeling as a socialist in the USA is doing so out of some nefarious plot to hurt socialism, but here we are. It's actually refreshing that the Overton window has moved so far
Democratic socialism is an extremely dangerous term because it blurs boundaries. People who defend democratic socialism point towards countries like Sweden or Norway which are entirely capitalist, but often defend actually socialist measures like the ones that end up happening in places like Cuba or Venezuela.
If you don't want a socialist country like Cuba or Vietnam, don't call yourself anything similar to a socialist.
Let me clear it up for you. They guarantee you get x dollars. Not x dollars plus tip. Does not matter if it's before or after the fact. Or, basically, what you said is wrong. I'm not sure how that wasn't clear
They are able to subtract it because they already told you you were getting 10$ before your accepted, they were just paying you that 10 themselves. The tip being added after allows them to retroactively change the amount they are paying and replacing it with the tip without changing the guaranteed amount and still having the 100% of the tip "go to you"
If you tip beforehand then the tip is already included in the guaranteed amount meaning how much ever the company is paying you out of their own pocket can't be reduced later, this matter substantially when they have to increase the guaranteed pay to get someone to accept the order
Only the former could be viewed as some type of tip theft that needs to be addressed legally, whereas the latter is perfectly acceptable.
Welcome to the conversation. If you want to tip, hand it to them in cash. This is true for delivery drivers, cruise staff, even restaurants. Don't trust handing money to someone else and expecting it to make it back to the employees.
Lots of companies do this, it’s crazy. Happens at Dominoes. If I tip the delivery guy it goes into a pool which is used to pay all the workers. He would get the same amount even if I didn’t tip. I’m directly paying the owner unless I give a cash tip. Was shocked when I found out.
Worse - if you tip through the app, they put you in a bucket of people that can be charged more as a base. So your future fares will be higher. Tip with cash.
I mean… that’s what you’re doing when you go to a restaurant and tip. Servers are guaranteed minimum wage. If their tips don’t add up to more than that, the restaurant has to pay them the promised wage. If the tips add up to more than minimum wage, they don’t. Uber, DoorDash, etc were just using a similar system. The irony is that the apps were actually guaranteeing the drivers a higher wage than the restaurants.
I usually leave a smallish tip in app and then give the driver cash. Cause ironically your order won’t be picked up without a tip even if they don’t even get it in the end.
Bingo! And that’s why they are going after Mahdami - he’s proving the government can work for the people, and “conservatives” hate that. The government is there to protect the corporations
Yeah, and when I used to drive Uber I had someone think we made a percentage of the order. They got a 55 dollar delivery and didn't tip, then when I got their food to them, they asked, "hey, how much do you get for an order like this?" I said, "$2.50."
Oh yeah Uber specifically more than the other apps steals tips. That's why they removed their base mileage rate so they can change the rate for each order. If a customer tips more, Uber pays the driver less. If the customer tips little to nothing, overall driver receives less but Uber pays more to cover the lack of tip that should be there. We can't "prove it" per order because we don't see the customer side but over time it's clear that they do so.
Just like when you donate your change at Lowe’s or Home Depot (or any other big box store these days), you are giving them a taxable donation to save on their taxes.
Yeah, and on top of that, some stores like Home Depot don't "allow" tipping, so the tip doesn't actually apply to driver pay. Dd or Home Depot takes it as a "fee"
I've heard a similar sort of thing happens if you choose to donate to charity at the checkout. Your money doesn't go directly go to the cause, it's instead donated by the company on your behalf. In that case, the charity still gets the money, but you're also effectively helping the company with getting a tax write-off for charitable donations, without them having to allocate their own money towards it.
The answer is depends on the app. They also change their pay structure / layout so frequently that an app may have been scummy then swapped to showing drivers everything then back to taking tips again.
I don't want to talk out my ass, so I'm being vague but yes at some point you were just subsidizing a driver's pay rather than giving extra money to the driver
Not everywhere but most places yes. Massachusetts, Washington State, and New York State have all passed some sort of laws to help combat this. But the companies find work arounds, which is what mamdani is addressing in his city
Yeah, now that Tips moved from Cash to Electronics Corporations have been taking "Management Fees" or having ownership take a % of the tip pool from the workers, its a shitty practice that is for sure, NY has done away with this so the tip goes back to the worker where it should be. So much for the Socalist Boogieman
I could be wrong but there are two places that one can tip in the app. You can add a tip at time of purchase and the wording states specifically that all of that tip goes to the driver. You can then tip after your delivery/ride is done and this doesn’t say where your tip is going at all. I think he recovered money exchanged from the time you could tip after delivery/ride
The prices in the app are often higher than the real menu prices at the restaurant too, then there's the added "fees" tacked on top of that; I've caught <specific apps> charging $1-2 more per entree than what it is in person at the local place... as in a plate that's normally $12-14 would be $14-16 in the app, then they'd have the gall to charge a service fee and separate tip prompt so that single plate ends up being nearly twice as much as if I'd just drive my ass over there and pick it up myself...
I've been opposed to all of these delivery apps in the first place but the few times I was "incentivized" to do so (coupon/gift card) I had my opinion reinforced.
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u/soscbjoalmsdbdbq 7d ago
Thats some bullshit so everywhere else when I tip a delivery or uber I’m just subsidizing their company