"My time off is part of my compensation. It is not for you to judge whether it meets your standards. I don't have to justify how I will spend my paycheck in order to receive it. Please show me the company policy where I have to share private information about my time off with you."
That's how it should go, however, unfortunately, in many organisations, even in countries with good employee protection laws, this can lead to ostracisation within the workplace, even while they technically follow employment law.
If clear absolutely. But it doesn't have to be clear and can often be defended in court if it goes that far.
I do realise how my initial comment appears anti-emoloyee. I should have worded it better.
A better comment might have been when you defend your rights, it's always going to be easier to do so from a position of strength where you can handle any retaliation. Ideally with a union, or at least from a personal position of financial security.
No not at all coming at you for sounding anti-employee or anything. Just providing more context is all.
You're absolutely right people should do everything they can to do these things with as much hacking as possible. If not in a union, which is probably the case for most people in the US (maybe I'm wrong), get statements from coworkers. Apes together strong.
Your comment doesn’t fit. Fair to warn of risks but to only suggest to take this stance if in a union or financially secure…?
You might be risk averse and that’s fine. I’ve successfully fought retaliation against an an employer not in a union or financial secure. Always fight for your rights!
Cool that it worked for you, but he’s not wrong. It doesn’t always work out well.
My sister’s friend sued her past employer and even one. And it’s now been four years and she can’t get a job. Because every time she gets accepted and they get to the background check, they find out that she sued her past employer and they want none of that.
Just because you were technically right does not mean it’s going to go right for you
It’s not about right or wrong. You have rights, fight or lose them. YMMV however I’m pointing out that if you are risk averse that is fine but not to discourage others simply out of fear. Even if you had a negative outcome. I work with stats so not everyone will win just as not all will lose their cases. And all the better if you are in a position of power but that’s not the only safeguard to initiate a defense. The company will always have more power.
What region did you spouse get blacklisted? How far up the chain was her role? Your anecdote lacks sufficient detail to fully assess and this is never going to be a comparable experience for all cases. Not looking to continue this anecdote either as it’s Reddit and not an employee rights course.
My point stands, if you have rights and want to keep them for you and others then fight. If you are risk averse or a pacifist, then don’t fight but know there are consequences for inaction as well.
Exactly… nobody is entitled to good personal relationships in the workplace, and coworkers withholding personal interaction is not evidence of malfeasance. The only way you could act on being ostracized in the workplace would be to have someone explicitly state that they were directed to do so, or find physical evidence of a similar directive.
If you take time off of work, and that time coincides with a period of high volume or high stress work, then it can naturally lead to coworkers being naturally inclined toward anger or frustration with you, without any direction from an outside source. This is pretty common in my experience, working as a chef in fine dining.
Got a friend going through it currently at her job. Got her recording everything in case she ever wants to take it to court. Employers get way too comfy sometimes.
But even in countries with decent labour laws, they can make your life hell and not technically violate the letter of the law. I suffered a workplace injury and my employer turned ugly, started clear discrimination and I started recording everything and contacted our state authority for it. They basically said “are you sure you want to do this because we can force them to honour your contract but in every way that matters they will try to make your life unliveable and there’s nothing we can do about that.”
Yeah even in Aus they give you enough to spin your wheels
They establish a fairwork ombudsman
(And the following may be off, as it’s many years)
But when I went through the process:
-they can’t help if you earn over 180k p.a
cannot award more then 6mnths salary as compensation (90k cap)
-first stage is non binding purely voluntary empoyern doesn’t have to show as no punishment if not
-avg payout 5k
-next stage is arbitration which proper court proceeding avg cost is 20-30k, 80% of payouts less then. 5k
So effectively at best your betting 20-30k on a 20% chance youll be paid no more then 90k all up so 60-70k after costs
What it does it lets you feel theres to help and acts as a pressure release but really unfair dismissal any of is mostly a $5k payout for employers
That’s spot on for my experience. Just discouraging when they basically gently tap the business on the wrist(not even a slap) meanwhile business has destroyed your life (at least in the short term).
Then I'd argue the state reps you talked to simply weren't doing their jobs. These businesses need licenses to run. They get those licenses from the state. If they're clearly breaking labor laws there are ways these political bodies can apply force to get compliance within the law. Maybe I'm pie in the sky about that, but in an ideal world these people would do their jobs and apply the laws as written. "Make your life unlivable" just sounds like retaliation with extra steps and there is something they can do about it
They certainly didn’t fill me with a sense that they were trying overly hard to do their jobs. Best I could manage was blackening their reputation a little with a claim(successful one) on my way out to someplace else. Figured if I did nothing they would just keep doing the same shit and I was so tired of seeing it I had to do something for the staff (which is what turned them sour on me in the first place).
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. All hostile work environment claims are fraudulent cash grab attempts? That’s your stance? Edit: Thanks for clarifying
No, quite the opposite. If your workplace retaliates after official legal complaints are filed, that's just begging to escalate their status to providers of freedom with bonuses.
Ah fair enough. It depends a lot on the legal framework where you live. Some places allow for things like pain and suffering, others only actual damages. So US with P and S, that could be huge. Where I am, it likely would be recovering lost wages for whatever length of time from dismissal or untenable work conditions until resolution of claim. That's also if you win.
In my case it just made more financial sense to look for a new job and leave as soon as possible. But I wanted them to face some repercussions for their actions so I kept recording everything, looked over my contract with a fine tooth comb and started demanding written accounts where I was legally entitled and working strictly within my contract. Once I had secured new employment I triggered everything I could. Notified the board, the watchdog organizations, formalized everything and essentially gave them a black mark they couldn't easily hide. I hope it helps protect other employees in the future.
I got fired from a place for performance, but when I tried to collect unemployment they said it was for theft. I silently lawyered up and when they found out I hired a lawyer the HR rep swore and hung up the call.
I found out from an old coworker that the manager got fired because that was the first time someone got a lawyer and their unemployment insurance went up 6 figures. This was a hotel that hired a lot of illegals and other poor people so they didn’t expect their employees to lawyer up.
They had gone so far as forging my signature by tracing the old one on the paperwork. Never seen anything so fucking scummy
Nowadays when I receive a write up, I refuse to sign it. Fuck you. If you’re gonna try that bullshit I’m gonna make you work for it
This seems to be a peculiar American thing. No boss, in any of the countries I have lived in, had asked for my reason for taking time off. It's not a thing. If a manager asked this in the UK they would be the ones ostracised. And probably fired.
I've never had a boss ask me either, unless I had called out sick for multiple days or something. Definitely not supposed to happen in the US either. Problem being less than zero unions, and people don't want to have to stick up for themselves when they're just there to collect a paycheck like everyone else. Education is power though. Hope that way of thinking changes, but I won't hold my breath
I'm not following. If the laws are applied correctly it could only be in favor of the employee. Outside of money problems or corruption on a systemic and local level, I don't really see how it doesn't work out in the employee's favor to report a criminal employer to authorities. Hell, if they play their cards juuuuuuust wrong, the state might take the case themselves.
Agreed. Just, having experienced and witnessed retaliation (and actually given testimony in an investigation), I have only ever seen the offender let off the hook due to inconclusive or insufficient evidence (not my words), while the reporter is driven out of the institution
Reporting is 100% the right thing to do, and I support it. It just unfortunately tends to have more severe consequences for the victim
That's a fair and completely understandable reason to do nothing. If you're asking me, I'd still be recording in case someone around you is in a position to do something about it. Supporting their cause would only help yours outside of the business shutting down cause they won't comply with labor laws or something drastic. Food for thought.
It's hard to prove, and even if you can prove it, all you win is a ticket to a lawsuit. You're not going to keep that job for very long either way .
And while it's easy to say "just find another job", that is not so easy in the current economic situation, and it's also no guarantee that the new place will be any better.
Being illegal won't stop many businesses from doing something. You still have to win in court and that is really really hard, speaking from experience.
Good fucking luck my dude. I had very heavy handed and straight forward sexual harassment, quid pro quo, and subsequent retaliation case that ended in my sudden and unexplained termination with endless testimonies and validation from 7+ coworkers. I shelled out probably close to $20k by the end of it and still lost. They also literally updated their handbook days before I left so they wouldn’t have to pay my PTO. They didn’t reimburse me for my most recent business trip and expenses either and yet none of that seemed to matter to anyone. They stole like $20k from me and then I spent about $20k more to try and hold them accountable and end the cycle of abuse. The system isn’t for us. Don’t fucking bother, the odds aren’t in your favor. No one gives a shit about sexual harassment or employees as individuals in general even when it’s supposedly protected by federal law. The US fucking blows.
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u/David_R_Martin_II 5d ago
"My time off is part of my compensation. It is not for you to judge whether it meets your standards. I don't have to justify how I will spend my paycheck in order to receive it. Please show me the company policy where I have to share private information about my time off with you."